Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/16/2005 11:32:38 AM EDT
Call me crazy, but I'm thinking about resigning my Navy commission in two or three years and enlisting in the Army with the 18X option. I just had a long conversation with one of the other pilots in my squadron today (he was doing 99% of the talking) about how great the rest of my flying career can be and what assignments I need to apply for. I realized that I can't even hint to any of them what I really want to do with the rest of my military career - they probably won't get it. They're terrific guys but they have completely different goals than I do. The only people I've talked to about enlisting are my wife and a few of my best friends, mostly prior-enlisted themselves.

Is it even possible? Would the Navy let me do it, or would they deny my request and throw me in a crappy assignment just for asking? I know the Army probably wouldn't care where I'm coming from, but I wonder if the Navy would let me go. I'm not about to call my detailer with a potentially disastrous question like this without better information.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:08:20 PM EDT
I know that in the army a officer goes to e-6 if he was ocs and e-5 if he was ROTC. You should be able to resign your commission as long a you dont have a contract commitment (i.e. Scholarship). I would recomend going through 11b or 19d school before trying for an 18x. you can learn alot from those arms. i know the 19th has tryouts in maryland a few times a year and they are offering a 150,000$ bonus. Its absolutly positivly the hardest socom training there is. Just be ready for 2 years of hell inside hell.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:15:04 AM EDT
I graduated from the Naval Academy, but my contract is a little different now. When the Navy realized they had too many student pilots in the maritime training pipeline last year, they opened up billets at reserve units and asked for volunteers to do two years of active duty followed by six years as a selected reservist. So while they're no longer holding me to the former eight-year active duty obligation, it's anybody's guess as to how they really want my career to progress after my current two-year tour (which I just started). Naturally they can do whatever they want (it is the Navy after all) but I'm hoping they don't have any big plans for me.

I've definitely considered the Guard groups - I even called the 20th to see if it would be possible to do a transfer to them after my active duty obligation is up (it is - they need captains). I would prefer active duty though, and I think I might be happier in the long run as an enlisted guy. Maryland is nice, though...anyway, I am definitely looking for hard training and a satisfying job.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:47:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 6:49:35 AM EDT by MTRancher]
I would advise against it. You may be enthralled by the romance of being an 18X but you should understand reality: in the last few years, the attrition rate(combined) for SFAS and SFQC has been about 75 percent. Im not saying YOU will fail, but lots of good men have. If you wash out, where are you? You are enlisted in the Army, probably as an 11B the way things are going. Even as an 18X, things are a lot different as an enlisted guy versus being an officer. I went from enlisted to officer, so I know both worlds.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:50:49 AM EDT
It's probably not the smartest thing I could do, I'll give you that. I'm just very unsatisfied by my career, and even if I didn't make it through selection and had to serve the remainder of my enlistment as a regular infantry guy, I think I'd still look back on my military service with more pride and satisfaction than I feel now. Of course I love flying, and I enjoy most of the perks that come with being an officer, and I don't get shot at or deploy for long periods (sweet job eh?) but there's just something really important missing.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:56:32 AM EDT
Why not see about retaining your commissioned rank and going as an officer to a non-special-forces branch. Common or garden crunchies need good leadership too.

NTM
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 8:46:14 AM EDT
Are SEALs not a option? I mean staying a Naval Officer and doing it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:21:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
Why not see about retaining your commissioned rank and going as an officer to a non-special-forces branch. Common or garden crunchies need good leadership too.

NTM



True, I could simply do a blue-to-green transfer into Infantry or another combat branch. Three reasons why I'm not considering that as a first priority are: 1) I like the command atmosphere of "special" units compared to the conventional forces; I'm already spoiled in this regard being an aviator. 2) Although I do enjoy leading people (and noncoms are very important as leaders too), what I really love is operating. Aviation is one of the few communities where officers get to be an "operator," and that's one of the reasons I originally took this path. 3) Although I have no experience with the Army special operations world other than talking to people and reading books, the information I have leads me to believe that I would really love the kind of missions that SF ODAs are tasked with. I don't just want to blow up stuff and shoot people; in fact if the choice were in my hands I'd be an 18D. All that aside, you do have a reasonable point.


Originally Posted By mk23hk:
Are SEALs not a option? I mean staying a Naval Officer and doing it.



Naturally, and I've even done the research to find out what the application process is for a lateral transfer to that community. But there is a big difference between SEALs and SF; in terms of the mission and the people I'd be working with, SF would be a much better fit for me. Others might feel more at home in a SEAL platoon, but I'm fairly sure I'd have more to contribute in SF. Another issue is the availability of training slots. Arguably, both SF and SEAL training are about equally difficult and both have high attrition rates. It's up to the individual to succeed. But it would be much easier to get a slot at SFAS through the 18X option, compared with an officer slot at BUD/S. Note: I'm not saying it would be easier to make it through, just easier to get there in the first place. They're not hurting for officer applicants to SPECWAR, let's just say that. Plus, if I didn't get though BUD/S, I'd either be back in aviation or stuck on a ship. Neither is quite appealing. At least if I was in the Army and didn't make it through SFAS or SFQC I could get orders to another ground combat MOS (my wife would love that ).
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:57:46 AM EDT
Have you considered going Warrant as a rotary wing pilot for the Army, then applying for the 160th SOAR? All the things you like about aviation now, but the atmosphere of SF and high speed missions abound.

Best of both worlds.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:17:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Have you considered going Warrant as a rotary wing pilot for the Army, then applying for the 160th SOAR? All the things you like about aviation now, but the atmosphere of SF and high speed missions abound.

Best of both worlds.



I'm sure that's a terrific job, and it's been suggested to me before over at SOCNET. A couple of the pilots in my squadron were Army helo pilots who transferred to the Navy reserve, so I'm sure I could also ask them about this option. I had my chance to be a helo pilot in the Navy but I didn't put it down as one of my choices at the end of primary flight training.

Although my preference is to be on the ground with a pack and a rifle, it would be wise to keep all the alternatives in mind, so I won't discount Army aviation. It's definitely something to consider.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:54:14 AM EDT
Don't fight the feeling. Come on over to the Marine Corps. You can go through OCS, get through TBS and go 0302. What rank are you? A full LT?

Max
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 11:23:01 AM EDT
Just a thought, the Air Force has many slots in SOCOM for pilots. Either that or Rescue. Some darn good people in Rescue. Just food for thought.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:45:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Don't fight the feeling. Come on over to the Marine Corps. You can go through OCS, get through TBS and go 0302. What rank are you? A full LT?

Max



Man, this is certainly ironic. I was this close to going Marines out of the Academy. I think I got lazy, and figured that if I was going to be a pilot, why bother with TBS? Quantico was fun for a few weeks but I ended up deciding on the Navy. Anyway, I wouldn't have to go through OCS but TBS is a must - they had a transfer program recently for Navy JOs still in flight school who wanted to be a Marine and fly a different aircraft. I'm just a LTJG, the equivalent of a 1st LT. However, I'll be a full LT by the time my orders at my current squadron are up.

I think my primary reason for avoiding a Marine commission was that I might not get my first choice of MOS out of TBS. With that damn "quality spread" thing they do, you could be a kick-ass officer and still not get the job you want. Honestly, I wouldn't have settled for anything but Infantry or Ground Intel. I didn't want to be disappointed. So call me a wuss for not trying, I suppose I deserve it now.


Originally Posted By AF-Lineman:
Just a thought, the Air Force has many slots in SOCOM for pilots. Either that or Rescue. Some darn good people in Rescue. Just food for thought.



No debate there, the AFSOCOM pilots are good and I respect what the PJs and CCTs do. I guess with my experience I could fly MC-130 Combat Talons if I wanted to, but as I said I just want to get on the ground and directly into the action. The AF and ANG is definitely something to keep in the back of my mind, though.

Back to the Marine officer thing (and the lack of choice over MOS which discouraged me), I've been looking into an interservice transfer into the Army, in case enlisting turns out to be impossible. If I transfer in with my current rank, I'm guessing they'll place me in the Aviation branch if the transfer is approved. Like the Marines I don't think the choice of MOS is really up to the individual - one of the downsides to being an officer.

I emailed the contact I was given about the IST program and asked if I could go Infantry despite my aviation training. If I do well I can apply for SF after a tour or two, assuming I don't get too senior in the meantime. I'm awaiting the reply.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 8:50:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 8:22:55 AM EDT by SSeric02]
You can't resign your commission until your End of Obligated Service.

But, Army SF officers work just like everyone else on the team. yes, eventually you get promoted out of an A-Team, but other opportunities open up also.

Get in contact with the SF Recruiting Company at Ft Bragg and look into an interservice transfer. But, hurry! Your still an 0-2, but the Army is very year-group centric. Your year-group is the year you were commsioned and is the basis of all promotions and assignments in the Army. they are very quota happy. You must have your application passed through the Recruiting Company and up to the SF Branch before your year-group is closed out from further applicants. Then, they get you an SFAS class date.

SF Recruiting Comapny, Ft Bragg: www.bragg.army.mil/specialforces/default.htm

Also, consider the ANG. There are two SF Battalions in the ANG and that is certainly an option.

ETA:

If I do well I can apply for SF after a tour or two, assuming I don't get too senior in the meantime.


You WILL be too senior after a tour or two as a infantry officer. Army officers apply for SFAS as 1stLts. After a year or two as a Captain, you won't have enough time left as a Captain to go through the SF pipeline and serve as an A-Team leader. Go straight for SF if you are considering an interservice transfer like that. You will go to the Infantry Captain's Career Course (formerly the Advanced Infantry Officer Course) either before or after SFQC, and SFQC has been revamped to include more basic infantry tactics, so don't worry about your lack of experience in that area.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:04:12 PM EDT
Thanks for that last post. Sorry I've been out of the loop for awhile; after Katrina hit I've been running around our new 'home' (NAS Ft Worth JRB) trying to set up our new squadron spaces. At least I got an important job to do for once, even though I won't be flying for a while.

Am I to understand that SF recruiting command will fight for my transfer? I had been in touch with HRC about an interservice transfer and they told me to ask for my top two or three branch choices, and they would 'consider' my preferences. In other words, I'd probably end up in Aviation like-it-or-not. The Guard SF groups I talked to (there are two groups, not just two battalions) sounded much more accommodating: transfer in, and we'll send you to selection right away.

If SF in the regular army would actually help me with the transfer, I would definitely consider it, as I want to stay in the active component. But if my branch selection is left up to the whims of HRC, I might as well forget about transferring my commission to the regular army.

One more thing, I'm not sure when my end of obligated service will be. If it's the eight years I owe after getting my wings, I'm screwed (that's 2013). If they'll let me go after my active commitment is up (2007, unless the hurricane changed things), then I have many choices before me.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:13:10 PM EDT
naval reserve officer here....they are right you can't transfer branches until you resign your commission after your service obligation is up and it looks like 2013, you can't get out of your reserve obligation, you can request a transfer into another designator that you think you would like

that's life, sometime you just can't do all the things you want to do, its too short
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:30:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By McNamara:
Am I to understand that SF recruiting command will fight for my transfer?



No, you have to do that yourself by submitting an SF Application Package and an Interservice Transfer Package. If and when your SF Application Package is approved by the SF Recruiting Company (step 1) and SF Branch (step 2) they will set you up with an SFAS class date. This may be before or after your Interservice Transfer goes through. Completing SFAS and getting selected for SFQC is the next step, once you have that you are set.

Try and get to SFAS while you are still in the Navy if possible. That way, if you don't complete it or are non-selected, you may be able to put the brakes on the Interservice Transfer and stay in the Navy as a pilot.


I had been in touch with HRC about an interservice transfer and they told me to ask for my top two or three branch choices, and they would 'consider' my preferences. In other words, I'd probably end up in Aviation like-it-or-not.


All that is in the SECNAVINST and equivelant Army order.


The Guard SF groups I talked to (there are two groups, not just two battalions) sounded much more accommodating: transfer in, and we'll send you to selection right away.


Check, typo on my part, there are two ANG groups, 19th and 20th. They can be VERY flexible b/c they are usually hurting to fill out their teams, especially with the toll the hi op tempo is taking. Lots of guys are doing the first deployment or two and dropping back to the IRR (reserve side) and Inactive Guard. But, many of the ANG SF units are broken down into smaller detachments. look for one with as much infrastructure as possible as they will be the most accomodating.


If SF in the regular army would actually help me with the transfer, I would definitely consider it, as I want to stay in the active component. But if my branch selection is left up to the whims of HRC, I might as well forget about transferring my commission to the regular army.


See above. They aren't going to fight for you, why should they. There are plenty of young Army Officers chomping at the bit to go SF. But, once you complete SFAS and get selected, then you are money in the bank.


One more thing, I'm not sure when my end of obligated service will be. If it's the eight years I owe after getting my wings, I'm screwed (that's 2013). If they'll let me go after my active commitment is up (2007, unless the hurricane changed things), then I have many choices before me.


It should be in your OQR, ORB, or whatever you call it in the Navy, it'll be listed near your EAS, PEBD, AFADBD, and all that stuff. The Navy probably won't release you for an Interservice Transfer until the end of your active duty committment. In fact, i will guarantee they won't. But, you can get the ball rolling now and submit your SF Application Package, Interservice Transfer package, and get an SFAS date. Like I said in the previou post, you must get this stuff submitted before your YearGroup is closed to further applicants. Very important!

Also, the Interservice Transfer takes a long time (many months) to process. If you get it all started now, you might have an SFAS date in a month or two, go to SFAS (getting time off from the Navy is a whole nother story), and just be waiting for your EAS to transfer to the Army.

They can't change your EAS without your signing something or a Stop Loss (which is highly unlikely given the current political situation), so don't worry about the hurricane.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:35:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 11:14:51 PM EDT by SSeric02]

Originally Posted By 1Gunner:
naval reserve officer here....they are right you can't transfer branches until you resign your commission after your service obligation is up and it looks like 2013, you can't get out of your reserve obligation, you can request a transfer into another designator that you think you would like

that's life, sometime you just can't do all the things you want to do, its too short



You do NOT resign your commission for an interservice transfer. You retain your commission and it is transfered between the two branches involved. But, in order to ENLIST in the Army, you must resign your commission first, and you cannot resign your commission until the End of your Obligated Service (EOS). Which as 1Gunner points out, is most likely 2013. But, check your ORB, or OQR, or whatever it is to make sure as you never know.

ETA: Also, once you hit your EAS, and drop into the Naval Reserve, it is much easier to transfer to the ANG. But again, you will retain your commission until your EOS.

So, to sum it all up, you have three COAs if you want to go SF.

1. Apply for an Interservice Transfer to the Army while simultaneously (if not earlier) submitting an SF Application Package to the SF Recruiting Company/SF Branch. If all goes well, upon your EAS from the Navy, you put on an Army uniform as an active duty Army Officer.

2. Wait until you EAS, but start talking to and pick out an ANG SF unit. At your EAS submit a package through them and join the ANG as an Officer.

3. Wait until 2013 for your EOS, resign your commission and enlist in the Army under the 18X program if it still exists. You always gotta have one throw-away COA.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 12:03:07 PM EDT
I wasn't aware that your Option 1 was possible - I thought I would have to go into the Infantry branch first and then apply for SFAS if I wanted to be an officer in the regular Army. I did not know that one could attend SFAS while in a different service. It would be difficult for me to get the time off, but my command is relatively laid back.

Thanks for the info, I will do some more research on my own as soon as I can!
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 12:47:44 PM EDT
That's the trick, get to SFAS before your interservice transfer goes through. If you get selected, then you are set as long as you can complete SFQC or don't change your mind. But like I said earlier, timing is everything. You've got to get on the ball and get the application into the SF Recruiting Company/Branch before your Year Group is closed. Talk to them ASAP.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:02:56 PM EDT

I would reiterate the ParaRescue Officer suggestion.
If thinking outside the box and creative problem solving are fortes of yours, then it may be a good fit. Of course extremely high standards of leadership are an absolute necessity in that community. Rescues frequently require that sort of flexible thinking, albiet within some perameters.
Although, depending on which aircraft you have been flying, the AF might jump to have you as
a Combat Controller troop.
There is also nothing shabby about flying rotary wing rescue aircraft.
At least in the AF there are no bad weather nite carrier traps!
Fuck THAT!

DaddyDett
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:48:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 5:38:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Have you considered going Warrant as a rotary wing pilot for the Army, then applying for the 160th SOAR? All the things you like about aviation now, but the atmosphere of SF and high speed missions abound.

Best of both worlds.



Heh, since 160th is at Campbell which happens to be where I'm at, I've slight dealings with them. These guys are awesome, on and off the playing field. Not your average military at all.
Top Top