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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:32:56 AM EDT
From the broadcast, he was a seven-year veteran, who had no history of complaints, nor of receiving disciplinary action. How does a guy like this slip through the cracks?

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-westfield-cop-investigated-for-excessive-force-20110929,0,6935320.column (hot or not? what's the new rule?)

the meat & potatoes of the story:

"Gilreath is accused of hitting 22-year-old Steven M. Smith of Indianapolis in the head with his gun while arresting him for shoplifting at Westfield’s Target on Saturday.

Smith’s mother, Michelle Smith, was waiting for her son in the car outside the store when officers showed up.

"He said 'Ma'am, do you realize you have a pistol held to your head?' and then he took his hand and pushed me down to the ground and handcuffed me."

She said Gilreath acted completely different than the other officers."

The irony here, lies in the fact that this story comes at a time the populace at both ends of the state is up in arms over a new law prohibiting local gov'ts from enforcing carry restrictions on public property. In the most prominent case, there is outrage over an OC "cowboy" at the zoo. (OC, with LTCH, has always been legal, and not unheard of in IN)
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 4:36:42 AM EDT
Just once? That's bullshit!
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 4:44:10 AM EDT
Shenanigans.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 4:46:00 AM EDT
Pimp.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 4:46:41 AM EDT
Fox59 learned that a fellow officer reported Gilreath after the alleged incident.



But Arfcom has assured me that the Thin Blue Line never lets this happen.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 4:46:42 AM EDT
Mom was a party to the crime. The getaway driver. Fuck her and the shoplifter.
Jim

BTW what does this have to do with CCW?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 4:51:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DDiggler:
Shenanigans.


Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:02:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Mom was a party to the crime. The getaway driver. Fuck her and the shoplifter.
Jim

BTW what does this have to do with CCW?


characterization of OC'ers as "the only" irresponsible maniacs with visible guns, who frighten the sheeple
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:03:36 AM EDT
I guess I would have to see it, there a lot of criminals that I have no problem with the cops ruffing up a little.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:04:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By figley:
From the broadcast, he was a seven-year veteran, who had no history of complaints, nor of receiving disciplinary action. How does a guy like this slip through the cracks?

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-westfield-cop-investigated-for-excessive-force-20110929,0,6935320.column (hot or not? what's the new rule?)


Hot, yes. Quoting the whole story, no.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:06:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:06:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By figley:
From the broadcast, he was a seven-year veteran, who had no history of complaints, nor of receiving disciplinary action. How does a guy like this slip through the cracks?


He may have just snapped. Seven years of dealing with the worst of humanity, and something inside him just said, "That's it, I'm beating the next piece of crap I have to deal with."

It happens.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:08:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:08:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 5:10:50 AM EDT by Camaroman]
There are a couple of possible scenarios that could have occurred here. One is that this isn't the first time this has happened, he has just never had anyone complain before. The second is that something similar happened, but we don't have all the details about the other individuals actions that may have justified the officers actions. People often forget that the media in alot of cases only get the suspect's story before writting an article because getting both versions would provide more context and make for a less interesting story if properly and accurately presented. The third possibility is that this event never occurred the way it is told and is completely fabricated. You would be surprised how often suspects/suspects families make completely fabricated complaints/stories to IA or the media believing it will get their charges dropped.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:19:43 AM EDT
For the record, Captains McCrea and Call approve of and advocate this tactic.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:04:05 AM EDT
But..but..but.. I learned from the many wise LEO's here that this NEVER happens, and if it does it's ALWAYS an isolated incident.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:05:34 AM EDT
I have no sympathy for thieves, unless they are stealing food that can be eaten at a single sitting. I am not altogether convinced that recidivist thieves should not be put to death.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:06:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Justice23:
Fox59 learned that a fellow officer reported Gilreath after the alleged incident.



But Arfcom has assured me that the Thin Blue Line never lets this happen.


You think people here hate dirty cops? As you probably know, you haven't seen hate till you've talked to ordinary cops about dirty cops.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:07:45 AM EDT
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:12:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 6:12:44 AM EDT by Tim_the_enchanter]
Like the hickory shampoo, the Slapper and Sap gloves; the pistol whip is another great American law enforcement tool that is disappearing because pussys have taken over the country.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:12:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 6:33:28 AM EDT by ttushooter]
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By DDiggler:
Shenanigans.




Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:13:09 AM EDT
Anyone else have troubles with that link opening a tab on its own repeatedly?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:15:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
For the record, Captains McCrea and Call approve of and advocate this tactic.


evidence
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:23:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:24:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?


They should visit Saudi Arabia for some desensitization.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:26:01 AM EDT
Meh. Not hitting him enough.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:37:24 AM EDT
That's what Kel-Lites and Blackjacks are for.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:44:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BuffLuver:
That's what Kel-Lites and Blackjacks are for.


Kel-lites?

You showed your age with that one.

Those things solved more problems than tasers ever will.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:47:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 6:49:08 AM EDT by Overdose]
Originally Posted By Justice23:
Fox59 learned that a fellow officer reported Gilreath after the alleged incident.



But Arfcom has assured me that the Thin Blue Line never lets this happen.


Good for the other cop for reporting it.

It appears that the instutionalized officer covering that takes place on large forces isn't in effect here.

ETA: and if you don't think this is the case, watch training day with denzel washington. that'll tell ya!

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:51:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 6:52:57 AM EDT by agillig]
Shmeh.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:53:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:53:50 AM EDT
Yes, it's more likely the POS shoplifter is prevaricating than the officer acted this far out of bounds.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:54:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 6:59:01 AM EDT by cyborg543]
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?


this is going to be one of those threads where 50% of arfcom reveal that they are incapable of doing any kind of inductive logic at all.

and that they are right wing version of stalinists

let me spell this out for you:

if you give the police the right to beat people:

In the practical sense - it's virtually guaranteed that the right will be abused by some police because people are weak.

In the philosophical sense - are you fucking kidding? The word "freedom" means nothing when the police are empowered with the right to beat people.



Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
Like the hickory shampoo, the Slapper and Sap gloves; the pistol whip is another great American law enforcement tool that is disappearing because pussys have taken over the country.


Go be a good old fashioned non-pussy and take your beating from a townie cop at his discretion. Just like a dog.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:57:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 6:58:21 AM EDT by DeltaElite777]
Blow to the head with ASP baton = lethal force (I'm a certified ASP instructor). I can't see how a pistol is any different, except for the massively increased risk of an ND. Cop should have his ass handed to him unless he can articulate how deadly force was necessary to affect the arrest.

DanO
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:02:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:11:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 556therapy:
Originally Posted By BuffLuver:
That's what Kel-Lites and Blackjacks are for.


Kel-lites?

You showed your age with that one.

Those things solved more problems than tasers ever will.



It's worse than you think. Board code reveals that he deleted "coon lamps" and wrote in "Kel-lites."
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:13:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?


this is going to be one of those threads where 50% of arfcom reveal that they are incapable of doing any kind of inductive logic at all.

and that they are right wing version of stalinists

let me spell this out for you:

if you give the police the right to beat people:

In the practical sense - it's virtually guaranteed that the right will be abused by some police because people are weak.

In the philosophical sense - are you fucking kidding? The word "freedom" means nothing when the police are empowered with the right to beat people.



Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
Like the hickory shampoo, the Slapper and Sap gloves; the pistol whip is another great American law enforcement tool that is disappearing because pussys have taken over the country.


Go be a good old fashioned non-pussy and take your beating from a townie cop at his discretion. Just like a dog.


It is altogether right and fitting that thieves receive sound beatings, but the law does not provide this service. I do not endorse a law allowing cops to beat suspects. However I cannot get agitated over anyone giving a thief a beating. Two different issues, with no resolution for either of them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:15:00 AM EDT
My issue isn't that he smacked the guy around a bit, it doesn't sound like he beat the guy senseless or did any serious harm. My problem is WHY THE HELL DID HE DRAW HIS FIREARM in the first place? Cops seem WAY too gun happy these days. What immediate lethal threat was involved that he needed to have a firearm in his hand? The minute you draw a gun the whole situation becomes a much more dangerous situation even if all you factor in is accidents. There are many other options he could have used if he felt a need to physically subdue the guy, starting with the fact that he's probably decently trained in H2H and moving on to a baton or taser if he really felt like the guy was a problem.

Hell, just for giggles I'd like to see a major department setup something where the minute the officer puts his hand on his pistol his microphone starts recording and a minicam on the pistol starts recording as well (even if still in the holster, it will just verify that it's still there if he's one of those guys that rests his hand there). I think it would be enlightening to see just how casual things have gotten when it comes to drawing a firearm and how often it is done correctly and how often it is done in situations where it is not appropriate according to department policy.

Some company could set this up, offer it for one week rotations through each precinct... then move on to another city. That way it's not a huge investment for a department, just a training/audit tool. They key would be to establish how much that system influences an officer so you know how to adjust the data for the fact that he or she knows they're being monitored after the fact. I think, even with that influencing their use, it would be very valuable, if nothing else it would show them how often they THOUGHT about doing something they didn't really need to do.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:18:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:18:32 AM EDT
My dad has hit suspects with guns,batons,leather slappers,radios and flashlights
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:25:45 AM EDT
They need to get rid of the Glocks if they are going to do that.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:30:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By metalhed556:
My dad has hit suspects with guns,batons,leather slappers,radios and flashlights


The punchline is that his dad's an optician.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:31:07 AM EDT
it use to be called a buffalo, you hit people over the head with the barrel of a colt peacemaker.

now its a pistol whip, probably with a plastic pistol, and not acceptable.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:34:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Justice23:
Fox59 learned that a fellow officer reported Gilreath after the alleged incident.



But Arfcom has assured me that the Thin Blue Line never lets this happen.

But Arfcops have assured me that the media is never to be believed.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:38:03 AM EDT
I don't really care. Police used to do this constantly when I was a kid and surprise! Fewer thieves. Now it's so rare it makes the news and we are up to our armpits in jackasses stealing anything that isn't set in concrete.

Spare the me slippery slope bullshit, it didn't happen before, it won't happen now.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:38:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
For the record, Captains McCrea and Call approve of and advocate this tactic.

http://media-files.gather.com/images/d553/d474/d746/d224/d96/f3/full.jpg



No surly bartenders or doddling service.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:43:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:50:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
I don't really care. Police used to do this constantly when I was a kid and surprise! Fewer thieves. Now it's so rare it makes the news and we are up to our armpits in jackasses stealing anything that isn't set in concrete.

Spare the me slippery slope bullshit, it didn't happen before, it won't happen now.


There's the whole thing, nicely wrapped and tied with a bow.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:54:47 AM EDT
I dont get it.....whats the allegation here?

So he pistol whipped someone, but whats the problem.....did he unlawfully? There are times when an officer pistol whipping someone is perfectly legal, weapon of opportunity and all.

Im not gonna lose sleep over this one.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:59:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?


Thieves > cops to some here.


Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?


You guys have this romantic notion of some peaceful, beautiful past where everybody in Mayberry saluted the flag and ate Mom's apple pie.

It's not really all that different from the liberals on democraticunderground with their romantic notion of the government controlling everything for the common good.

Apparently, in the good old days, Barney Fife used to pistol whip the citizenry at his discretion and it all worked out swell.


Basically, the idea that arfcom and democraticunderground don't get is the fact that it's a zero-sum game. The government gains power, you lose power. End of story.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:03:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MALICIOUS2551:
http://youtu.be/t4FqqRSH5NY


Speirs...such a bad motherfucker!
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