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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/1/2005 3:44:36 PM EDT
Well, I carry a Colt 1991 A1 for my main duty weapon. Only problem is that it weighs a ton on a regular pant belt, and is harder to conceal than a VW Bug. I am wanting to buy an off duty weapon, but can't decide what to get.

The Dept. range master said I could get the Glock 36 .45 ACP, ("slim line" single stack 6 + 1), which I wouldn't mind I don't think because, well, its a 45, and I REALLY like 45's, even though the LT. gives us shit because we are "trying to make up for something we lack with a bigger bullet," LOL.

Another thing that someone brought up to me also was the grip angles between the Glocks and the 1911 frames, that can be hard to adjust between. Does anyone carry either or, and shoot the other or vice versa? If so, how hard is it to change between weapons as far as sight alignment?

The Glocks feel good in my hands, just would like some imput from other people who carry a 45 as a back-up/off duty. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 4:13:57 PM EDT
On duty I cary a Sig 220, off duty I cary a Sig 220, learn to live with the weight of your gun, I don't cary it in a holster off duty ,i just jock it.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:07:46 PM EDT
I don't carry as much as I used to (that may be changing - our HMEU just got reactivated).

That said, I've never had any problems on the line (or in the house) with operating the different makes of guns I own, under real or simulated stress. I consider myself lucky, blessed, or both so far as that goes.

A lot of folks aren't like me, however. As Col. Cooper (IIRC) wrote - it's better to have only one gun, and know how to use it well, than have twenty and not be able to handle it when the time comes.

I'd reccommend one of the compact .45's, since you're most familiar with the operating drill is the same for your O/D and duty weapon. Same mags is a + too.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:18:41 PM EDT
If you can afford it, the Kimber PRO CDP or ULTRA CDP are two of the absolute best conceal carry 1911's out there. The pro is a 4" barrel full size grip, the ULTRA i believe is 3" but officer sized grip. Same as your regular gun, so no learning curve. Aluminum alloy frame, so lightweight, and all the sharp edges are "melted" and smoothed out. Doesn't catch on anything. I have a Pro and love it.

If you don't want to spend so much, I'd say get a S&W .38 Airweight, in whichever variation you prefer.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:24:50 PM EDT
I carried a SIG 220 on and off duty.

When I carried a 4506, I carried the 4516-1 off duty. I miss that gun.

Get an Officers Model if you like the 1911 platform.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 6:37:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tango7:

I'd reccommend one of the compact .45's, since you're most familiar with the operating drill is the same for your O/D and duty weapon. Same mags is a + too.



+1
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:14:44 PM EDT
Thanks for the suggestions so far. Mentioning the Kimber also got me to thinking about the Para Ordnance "Carry" weapons. They are based on the 1911 frame, but are DA. I have also thought about a S&W air light .38, which may be another very viable option. I think I will look in that direction a little more also. Thanks again.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:20:49 PM EDT
Just Remembered - Colt had the Mustang +II and Govt .380 (obviously, in .380 ACP).

Same op drill for the baby govt - the Mustang lacked a grip safety, but was otherwise identical.

If you (and your range / qualifying officer) are OK with .380, give it a thought.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:31:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:32:48 PM EDT by npd233]

Originally Posted By mevertsen:
Thanks for the suggestions so far. Mentioning the Kimber also got me to thinking about the Para Ordnance "Carry" weapons. They are based on the 1911 frame, but are DA.NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I have also thought about a S&W air light .38 much better, which may be another very viable option. I think I will look in that direction a little more also. Thanks again.




You want to carry a SA 1911 on duty and a DA 1911 off duty?? Can you say negligent discharge? Learn one trigger pull, not two, with the same gun platform.

Edited to add a couple more NO's
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:35:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:36:21 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:35:49 PM EDT
Yeah, thats a thought too. Heck, if we can shoot the gun and qualify with it, we can carry just about anything as a back-up/OD weapon! There is no real requirement for exactly what must be carried on duty, but the three big ones are preferred (9, 40, and 45), and no revolvers as a primary. They also like to see a 4" barrel for on duty carry. Other than that, the S/O is pretty open to just about anything. Quite honestly, the R/O and I are the only ones that carry 45's. Everyone else carries either 9's or 40's, split pretty even between the department, and everyone has either a Glock or XD as their primary. (except for the R/O and I he
One guy just bought a Taurus Millenium as an off duty gun, in 9mm too. A nice gun, but I am not sure I would trust a Taurus.

There are also some 32 H&R revolvers out there that might make a decent off duty weopon.

Man, the choices, and trying not to end up with so many guns I can't shoot straight
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:41:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:43:31 PM EDT by SheepDog_556]

Originally Posted By npd233:
You want to carry a SA 1911 on duty and a DA 1911 off duty?? Can you say negligent discharge? Learn one trigger pull, not two, with the same gun platform.



Plus a FUCKING MILLION. Train with the gun that you carry, carry the goddam gun you train with.

I carry a G21 on duty and the same G21 or a G30 off-duty, despite the fact that I have a shitload of other pistols in the safe, including a buch of high-zoot 1911s.

I cannot stress this enough. If your world suddenly goes to shit when you are off-duty, it's your muscle-memory that will take over, just as it would on-duty. I would bet that more than 75% of your training time is spent with the 1911. If you spend more time training with an off-duty gun that has a different operating system, something is wrong.

If you are carrying a 1911 on duty, then carry a 1911 off-duty. If I can comfortably carry a G21 at 5'11"/175lbs, then ANYONE should be able to carry a 1911 which is FAR slimer. A Commander or Officer's length is also a consideration if you just can't force yourself to carry a full-sized 1911.

Invest in a good holster and a good belt. Problems solved.

Sorry for the fire and brimstone, but this is a hot button with me. Guys that carry Glocks or Sigs on duty and then wander around with a makarov or some other abomination off-duty.

One operating system for both duty and off-duty carry.




Sheep
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:43:28 PM EDT
That last was a reply to Tango. And thanks npd for that warning, point well taken. Aimless, I might try that too, but like you said those belts really aren't appropriate for wear everywhere, which is one reason I am wanting find a very small weapon to carry with all the clothes I wear, without it sticking out like a sore thumb. I essentially only want to end up with two guns, one for Duty, and one for off duty.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:45:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mevertsen:
That last was a reply to Tango. And thanks npd for that warning, point well taken. Aimless, I might try that too, but like you said those belts really aren't appropriate for wear everywhere, which is one reason I am wanting find a very small weapon to carry with all the clothes I wear, without it sticking out like a sore thumb. I essentially only want to end up with two guns, one for Duty, and one for off duty.



Galco Firm Belts, in 1 1/4" width are what I use for ALL my dress belts.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:54:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:08:21 PM EDT
I looked at Galco just now. They do have some pretty nice stuff. I will probably buy one of those holsters that they have, and see how things go. I will also look at Don Hume stuff too. Just something that had never really crossed my mind or been suggested to me. Thanks for the replies.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:11:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:21:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mevertsen:
Thanks for the suggestions so far. Mentioning the Kimber also got me to thinking about the Para Ordnance "Carry" weapons. They are based on the 1911 frame, but are DA. I have also thought about a S&W air light .38, which may be another very viable option. I think I will look in that direction a little more also. Thanks again.



I would only think of a .38 snub as a viable secondary/back-up weapon, not as a viable option as your exclusive off duty weapon.

I would also agree that the difference in ergonomics and trigger pull between the 1911/Glock can cause problems. I would also suggest sticking with a 1911 in Officers size.

Stay safe!
Nick
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:24:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 8:31:09 PM EDT by SheepDog_556]

Originally Posted By mevertsen:
I looked at Galco just now. They do have some pretty nice stuff. I will probably buy one of those holsters that they have, and see how things go. I will also look at Don Hume stuff too. Just something that had never really crossed my mind or been suggested to me. Thanks for the replies.



If you need opinions or suggestions on leather gear, ask away. I have had just about every brand of custom and non-custom leather gear out there...that goes for Kydex as well.

If you are looking for a comfortable IWB right, look for a holster that has the belt attachment to the front and rear of the pistol, rather than on the holster body itself...something like this:



$68 bucks from FIST Holsters


Or Kydex:



$60 bucks from Threat Solutions


Just a couple of examples. I have the pictured holsters from both makers and they are good to do. Milt Sparks and a ton of others make IWBs in this style.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:29:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:33:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mevertsen:
One guy just bought a Taurus Millenium as an off duty gun, in 9mm too. A nice gun, but I am not sure I would trust a Taurus.

Man, the choices, and trying not to end up with so many guns I can't shoot straight



If it's any consolation, I've known over a dozen LEO's who've carried Tauruses (Taurii?) as primary duty guns and had zero problems with them.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:36:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

I own a Colt Mustang. It is a neat little gun, and let me tell you standing up close to a target it'll shoot tight groups quickly.
My g/f and I stayed in a hotel downtown in one of the cities in upstate NY one weekend after going out with friends (I don't mean out drinking). She wanted to go for a walk afterwards so I stuck my Colt Mustang in my pocket in a pocket holster. We were walking in a mostly nice residential area that has a park adjoining it where there are occaissionally problems. I remember her bumping against my side and noticing the little Colt and saying "Oh you have a gun" (which she found reassuring). That got me thinking, God forbid if something had happened that night would I have wanted to trust that little 380 if I had to protect her? I tossed it in a drawer later that week and never carried it again.



Wanna sell it?

The ex-GF (several years ago) had one, and I miss it terribly. I found loaded with Hydra-shocks or Glasers the shoot reviews (real shootings, not gel tests) proved .380 was about the smallest you could go as far as a "D" gun with reliable stopping capability.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:23:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:41:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tango7:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

I own a Colt Mustang. It is a neat little gun, and let me tell you standing up close to a target it'll shoot tight groups quickly.
My g/f and I stayed in a hotel downtown in one of the cities in upstate NY one weekend after going out with friends (I don't mean out drinking). She wanted to go for a walk afterwards so I stuck my Colt Mustang in my pocket in a pocket holster. We were walking in a mostly nice residential area that has a park adjoining it where there are occaissionally problems. I remember her bumping against my side and noticing the little Colt and saying "Oh you have a gun" (which she found reassuring). That got me thinking, God forbid if something had happened that night would I have wanted to trust that little 380 if I had to protect her? I tossed it in a drawer later that week and never carried it again.



Wanna sell it?

The ex-GF (several years ago) had one, and I miss it terribly. I found loaded with Hydra-shocks or Glasers the shoot reviews (real shootings, not gel tests) proved .380 was about the smallest you could go as far as a "D" gun with reliable stopping capability.



Tango, check your IMs
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:54:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:05:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:45:20 AM EDT
First off, let me say that you are a LUCKY BASTARD for being able to carry a 1911. I wish we could!

Now, to the point. I'm 6'02 with a fairly thin (but not as thin as it used to be!) build. For me, because of the way the butt of an auto sticks out, I have a very hard time concealing one during the summer when a light t-shirt is too much clothes. Even my G26 prints too badly and is plainly visible. I've taken to carrying my S&W 649 snubbie during the summer, which conceals VERY well. And before anyone says to get a better holster, it just doesn't work for me. I've tried a goodly assortment of holsters, none work as well as taking my snubbie and sticking it in my waistband. The damn thing just disappears. Admittedly, where I live can be considered a low-risk environment. If I lived in or had to go to a bigger city or a high-crime area, I'd be carrying my G23 or G26, regardless of whether or not it prints some.

Now, when I can get away with it, I do carry my duty weapon, a G23. It's just that, during the summer, it ain't appropriate for me. If I were you, I'd look into a S&W or Taurus snubbie. Since you can get away with it, one of the small 1911 pistols would probably work well, too. It ain't the bigest, it ain't the best. But, for me, anyway, they hide VERY WELL and, after all, the point is to have a CONCEALED weapon, isn't it?

Bub
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:03:21 PM EDT
i carry a full size Kimber custom II with tru glo tro day/night sights in an old world leather holster with a forward cant on a black hawk tatical velcro duty belt. i wear a long t shirt and no one ever knows i carry. the only thing i dont like is the cant in the holster. i would reather have a strait up but i didnt pay for it, its on loan from a friend. check out the black hawk line of holsters like the cqc serpa. it has an internal lock and it looks great with is carbon fiber face and cabon fiber accesories.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:20:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 5:23:24 AM EDT by bruh44]
I carry a Kahr Arms PM9 9mm off duty because it fits in my pocket, and it's reliable. If 45 is your thing Kahr has a compact carry 45 now. I'm not all that farmiliar with it, but my expierience with Kahr tells me it's probobly to quality.

I've got a friend I work with that carries a Para Ordinance Warthog. It's a very nice, smooth shooting small framed 1911. They also have it in DAO I believe.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 5:52:24 PM EDT
Holster placement: If possible, always carry at the same postition as when your on duty. If something out of control happens, "Fight or Flight" takes over. You will lose fine motor skills as your body goes into "fight"mode... Youll be so jacked on adrenalin that you will go for your firearm at its usual location and will forget that it is in a shoulder holster, ankle rig, fannypack etc...same goes for when you have to reholster as you move in to detain....Not trying to hijack the thread...
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:18:50 AM EDT
The worst choice is one that you don't carry because it is too bulky or heavy. I carry a g22 with m3 on duty. Off duty it is the kel-tec p3 in .380. I know it is only .380, but I always have it.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:19:56 AM EDT
I'm a big proponent of not being a slave to too many masters also. I love the Glock, but if you carry and train with a 1911 primarily, you should carry a 1911 off duty. If the one you have is too big and heavy for concealment, get a smaller, lighter one (but I wouldn't go too crazy). And a good holster does make a difference.
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