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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:28:31 PM EDT
[#1]
You've seen OBR groups right?
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:31:44 PM EDT
[#2]
M14 would get my vote for accuracy. Ever felt a FAL trigger? G3 is OK but lacks the sight adjustments of the M14.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:32:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
You've seen OBR groups right? +1 I have shot an OBR at 1000 yards, and it has phenomenal accuracy. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:36:11 PM EDT
[#4]
M14 followed by the FAL / G3
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:38:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Most of it depends on the person behind the rifle. Even with someone who's an excellent shot, he may not be as good with one compared to another and which is best for him comes into play. It also depends on how that particular rifle is setup, not just the type it is. I favor an accurized M14 myself, but that's me. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:38:10 PM EDT
[#6]
I'd guess it's the AR-10 series followed by the rest.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:38:18 PM EDT
[#7]
I find it funny that people are throwing the OBR into this discussion
 I think they would all be about the same...with the finals coming down to the G3 and M14...beyond that it would be hard to say but I don't think there would be a clear cut winner.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:40:58 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm going to put my stupid hat on and ask: whats the OBR?
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:41:00 PM EDT
[#9]
They're all accurate enough to get the job done.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:41:23 PM EDT
[#10]
M14 has my vote
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:42:43 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:43:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Just like anything else, it depends on the quality of the components used to build the gun.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:43:21 PM EDT
[#13]
1. AR10
2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:45:12 PM EDT
[#14]
I see, now, the difference between theory and practice, in a way that I hadn't seen before.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:46:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:46:42 PM EDT
[#16]
If brand new, box-stock, straight out of the box ordinary battle rifle, I think they would all be about the same. When you start messing with the triggers, etc anything can be made better.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:47:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I ask because it seems the G3 has fewer moving parts. I know that there are other variables such as sights, trigger, barrel weight, etc, but the G3 type rifle can be had with a heavy barrel (PTR 91 style) and the trigger can be improved. If mounted with the Hensoldt scope or some other scope, wouldnt that be one of the best, sniper rifles? It seems to me that the action of the G3 locks by rollers, and goes straight back unlike others that have an offcentered impact or blow on the bolt carrier. In other words, wouldnt the G3 have less vibrations upon cycling? Not trying to start anything, I really dont care which is more accurate, but I just got into a discussion with someone else about it. And I really wasnt sure. Any opinions. I've got a German HK-91 and a Belgian 50.00 FAL. The FAL is more accurate with my pimpy reloads. Both triggers are bad to so-so. Chris |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:48:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this That's how my list would look .......and also,from the bench. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:48:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this Are you saying one can be more accurate than another off a bench, but less accurate prone? What changes the accuracy inherent to the rifle? Things may change for the shooter, but I'm not following what can change for the rifle. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:52:26 PM EDT
[#20]
In practical accuracy the irons on the M14 make it much easier to shoot accurately then the others in my experiance. However were you to scope all of them I would bet the AR-10 will be the most accurate. Direct impengment tends to make for more accurate guns then piston systems, coupled with less weight attached to the barrel. If you free float an AR-10 you get a really accurate rifle.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:54:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this Are you saying one can be more accurate than another off a bench, but less accurate prone? What changes the accuracy inherent to the rifle? Things may change for the shooter, but I'm not following what can change for the rifle. Sights, weight of the barrel and ergonomics all play a role in practical accuracy. The ArR10 for instance tends to be very muzzel heavy compared to an M-14 or G3. This makes it harder to shoot accurate unsuported in my experiance. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:54:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Too many variables. Are we talking about as designed or 'tricked out'? There's a pretty massive difference between a Vietnam fresh-from-the-factory M14 and an accuratized M1A with a heavy barrel.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:56:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this Are you saying one can be more accurate than another off a bench, but less accurate prone? What changes the accuracy inherent to the rifle? Things may change for the shooter, but I'm not following what can change for the rifle. Maybe he's talking , as opposed to "battle-worthy-dependability-ruggedness ......and still be accurate ? |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:56:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Skill and training are more important than the kind of rifle you have.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:57:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this Are you saying one can be more accurate than another off a bench, but less accurate prone? What changes the accuracy inherent to the rifle? Things may change for the shooter, but I'm not following what can change for the rifle. I don't think it really matters how the rifles are shot to be honest with you. The AR10 is inherently more accurate for the same reason the AR15 is accurate. There are fewer moving part and very the least reciprocating mass. There are nearly infinite sights and optics mounting options and the barrel can also be free floated. The M14 has good sights but the barrel is not free floated and there is quite a bit of reciprocating mass. The G3 has decent diopter sights but the bolt lock up and horrid trigger in combination with the fluted chamber does not lend itself to precision work. The FAL has a generally crappy trigger, high amount of reciprocating mass, and the terrible sights are not even on connected parts of the rifle. The rear sight is on the lower and front sight is on the upper, this is a terrible set up and mounting optics is messy too. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 1:57:52 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:01:09 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:02:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this Are you saying one can be more accurate than another off a bench, but less accurate prone? What changes the accuracy inherent to the rifle? Things may change for the shooter, but I'm not following what can change for the rifle. Sights, weight of the barrel and ergonomics all play a role in practical accuracy. The ArR10 for instance tends to be very muzzel heavy compared to an M-14 or G3. This makes it harder to shoot accurate unsuported in my experiance. For you. I tend to like muzzle heavy for unsupported shooting. I can't shoot an STG556 offhand for crap, but I can shoot an Enfield quite well. "Practical" accuracy is subjective to the shooter. The OP is theorizing why such rifle should be capable of better accuracy than another from a mechanical standpoint, and I can't for the life of me understand how there would be any debate that from a machine rest, and rifles of similar quality, that the AR10 would reign supreme. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:08:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Does the PSG-1 count as a G3?
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:09:05 PM EDT
[#30]
My WAG is that the AR-10, or any .308 AR, is the easiest to make accurate.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:09:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Does the PSG-1 count as a G3? About as much as the OBR counts as a AR10 |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:09:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the PSG-1 count as a G3? About as much as the OBR counts as a AR10 I don't get it, why doesnt an OBR count as an AR10? |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:19:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Does the PSG-1 count as a G3? About as much as the OBR counts as a AR10 But it's based on the G3, isn't it? I wasn't sure if it was a variant or a completely different gun. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:24:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this Are you saying one can be more accurate than another off a bench, but less accurate prone? What changes the accuracy inherent to the rifle? Things may change for the shooter, but I'm not following what can change for the rifle. Sights, weight of the barrel and ergonomics all play a role in practical accuracy. The ArR10 for instance tends to be very muzzel heavy compared to an M-14 or G3. This makes it harder to shoot accurate unsuported in my experiance. Sounds like you need more experience!  Sorry, easy shot. Anyways, if you look at competition rifles being shot standing with no support, they have EXTREMELY heavy barrels. For instance, my .22 (A .22!!!) has a 20" long, 1" thick bull barrel. The newest version has a 26" barrel! It slows down the movement, dampens all the jumpiness, and allows you to time your shots better. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:24:08 PM EDT
[#35]
the G3 is a fantastic battle rifle had one issued for a while
my vote has to be for the M14 god awful battle rifle but a beutiful target rifle! |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:26:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: I would consider an OBR an AR10 platform rifle.Quoted: Quoted: Does the PSG-1 count as a G3? About as much as the OBR counts as a AR10 I don't get it, why doesnt an OBR count as an AR10? |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:27:53 PM EDT
[#37]
When properly set up, any of those rifles can be more accurate than most of us...
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:30:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
M14 followed by the FAL / G3 No way. Most FAL's won't touch an M14 or an AR10. Heck , most FAL's wont touch an AK in the accuracy department.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:33:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would consider an OBR an AR10 platform rifle.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the PSG-1 count as a G3? About as much as the OBR counts as a AR10 I don't get it, why doesnt an OBR count as an AR10? That's what I thought |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:33:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
When properly set up, any of those rifles can be more accurate than most of us... what on earth does that mean? |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:36:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does the PSG-1 count as a G3? About as much as the OBR counts as a AR10 I don't get it, why doesnt an OBR count as an AR10? Maybe because the rifles were redesigned to be accurate rifles. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:43:33 PM EDT
[#42]
My out of the box Armalite AR-10 20" is a MOA rifle using just front sandbag rests.
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:47:36 PM EDT
[#43]
AR-10
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:55:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 2:59:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this Are you saying one can be more accurate than another off a bench, but less accurate prone? What changes the accuracy inherent to the rifle? Things may change for the shooter, but I'm not following what can change for the rifle. Sights, weight of the barrel and ergonomics all play a role in practical accuracy. The ArR10 for instance tends to be very muzzel heavy compared to an M-14 or G3. This makes it harder to shoot accurate unsuported in my experiance. For you. I tend to like muzzle heavy for unsupported shooting. I can't shoot an STG556 offhand for crap, but I can shoot an Enfield quite well. "Practical" accuracy is subjective to the shooter. The OP is theorizing why such rifle should be capable of better accuracy than another from a mechanical standpoint, and I can't for the life of me understand how there would be any debate that from a machine rest, and rifles of similar quality, that the AR10 would reign supreme. Read my post directly above the one you quoted. I already adressed the OPs question I was responding to the person I quoted in this post. Comparing an STG556 to a Enfield is apples and oranges to an M1A and AR-10. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 3:02:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
I'd guess it's the AR-10 series followed by the rest. This. The AR10 is capable of frightening accuracy when built with the right components and by someone who knows what they are doing. The M25 variant of the M14 is superbly accurate as well in 2nd place. The FAL is decent but limited and the G3 falls far behind even in the PSG1 variations. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 3:03:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: I would consider an OBR an AR10 platform rifle.Quoted: Quoted: Does the PSG-1 count as a G3? About as much as the OBR counts as a AR10 I don't get it, why doesnt an OBR count as an AR10? Well of course it is but the point of this thread was to compare accuracies of the stock rifles, ala a G3 vs an AR10. Thats why I was laughing when people brought in the OBR to the discussion. Of course the OBR is going to be more accurate than the G3...its a specialized build. Hey whats more accurate, a Ruger or a Remington? Dur...well I have a $6000 supped up GA Precision Rock M700 that shoots great!  |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 3:05:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. If we're talking about shooting groups off a bench, this Are you saying one can be more accurate than another off a bench, but less accurate prone? What changes the accuracy inherent to the rifle? Things may change for the shooter, but I'm not following what can change for the rifle. Sights, weight of the barrel and ergonomics all play a role in practical accuracy. The ArR10 for instance tends to be very muzzel heavy compared to an M-14 or G3. This makes it harder to shoot accurate unsuported in my experiance. Sounds like you need more experience!
Sorry, easy shot. Anyways, if you look at competition rifles being shot standing with no support, they have EXTREMELY heavy barrels. For instance, my .22 (A .22!!!) has a 20" long, 1" thick bull barrel. The newest version has a 26" barrel! It slows down the movement, dampens all the jumpiness, and allows you to time your shots better. Does the rest of your .22 weigh 1/3 of what the barrel does? Does it have a pistol grip? There is more to a well ballanced gun then a heavey barrel. The main reason for a bull barrel is because a thicker barrel dampens barrel harmonics and heats slower. The reason for lengthening a a barrel is to increase muzzel velocity and sight radius. If it were simply a matter of weight then everyone would be hanging 5lbs of lead shot off of thier stock. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 3:15:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
1. AR10 2. M14 3. G3 4. FAL In that order. Yep. |
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Posted: 12/18/2010 3:19:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would consider an OBR an AR10 platform rifle.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the PSG-1 count as a G3? About as much as the OBR counts as a AR10 I don't get it, why doesnt an OBR count as an AR10? Well of course it is but the point of this thread was to compare accuracies of the stock rifles, ala a G3 vs an AR10. Thats why I was laughing when people brought in the OBR to the discussion. Of course the OBR is going to be more accurate than the G3...its a specialized build. Hey whats more accurate, a Ruger or a Remington? Dur...well I have a $6000 supped up GA Precision Rock M700 that shoots great! Fair enough point. For an open-sighted run of the mill "stock" setup , I've shot AR10's, FAL's, and I used to own an MIA Standard. I was more accurate with the AR10 , I found it a bit easier to shoot accurately. It balanced better in my hands; and the elevation of the sights , together with the A2 stock, pointed more natural to me. I cant say anything either way about the G3, as I've never held one much less shot one. |
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