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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:10:04 PM EDT
So, short story kept short...





Yesterday morning I was test driving my mom's car to hear some wheel noise it was supposedly making.  State Trooper came up behind me and pulled me over, no idea at the moment why.


Well he comes to the window and the first words from his mouth are "You weren't doing anything wrong, I pulled you for an expired registration.".  He then asked what I was doing and then for my license and registration (expired paper).





Apparently my mom's vehicle registration had expired at the end of December, 6 days ago.





I was carrying but didn't notify since it's not required and I don't generally volunteer information to anyone; personal quirk I guess...





Anyway, after he'd been in his cruiser for a while I realized I was actually getting a ticket and not a warning.





Sure enough, Trooper comes back and hands me a $25 ticket with $66 in fees!
Here's the ODD part:





AFTER he hands me the ticket and has begun to head back to his cruiser, he pauses and turns back and says "I saw your permit information, are you carrying right now?"  Since it was a direct question, I said yes and then he just nodded and went on his way...?
I was discussing this later with my wife, and the ONLY thing we could come up with was as I was putting my wallet away, the movement probably triggered a thought in the Trooper's head...  "Hey he's got a CCW, I probably should have asked if he was armed before now..."
Anyone else think that's a little strange time to ask?  Also, yes the registration was expired, but PERSONALLY I think it's a dick move to ticket for expired registration 6 days after expiration...
ETA::



Yeah yeah, CSB and all.  For any interested, the noise was a bad outer tie-rod that the repair shop missed.

Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:13:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Usually expired registration is a fix it ticket. You renew the expired tags and show proof and the ticket is dismissed. Don't know about in VA.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:14:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:14:42 PM EDT
[#3]
I have this running theory that, no matter where you go, every state hates something.  As long as you're not doing that something, you have nothing to fear from the authorities.

In the Mid-Atlantic, for example, NJ hates guns, DE hates poor people, MD hates rich people, PA hates their roads, and VA hates cars.


I just really need to move to a state that hates hippies and live happily ever after.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:18:29 PM EDT
[#4]



Quoted:


Usually expired registration is a fix it ticket. You renew the expired tags and show proof and the ticket is dismissed. Don't know about in VA.


You're correct.



I'll get my mom to pay her registration and then I'll go to Court and so the registration has been made current.



The Courts around here usually will drop the ticket and then ask you to pay "Court Fees" which seem to amount to $50-ish...



 
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:19:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:19:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:21:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Usually expired registration is a fix it ticket. You renew the expired tags and show proof and the ticket is dismissed. Don't know about in VA.


That is typical in Virginia as well.  

So OP, how many days after expiration would it not be a "dick move" to ticket?  The reality is that the ticket will likely be dismissed when proper registration is obtained.  So just how long is a trooper supposed to wait before issuing the ticket?  8 days, 15 days?  33 days?
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:25:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Usually expired registration is a fix it ticket. You renew the expired tags and show proof and the ticket is dismissed. Don't know about in VA.


That is typical in Virginia as well.  

So OP, how many days after expiration would it not be a "dick move" to ticket?  The reality is that the ticket will likely be dismissed when proper registration is obtained.  So just how long is a trooper supposed to wait before issuing the ticket?  8 days, 15 days?  33 days?


87 days works for me!  

Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:30:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Ohio is a duty to inform state. i.e., you have to tell the officer that you have a permit and are armed.  

Nice thing about it is that, in my experience, my CHL doubles as a get out of jail free a ticket card.  

Maybe you should unquirk yourself around the police.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:35:15 PM EDT
[#10]
My bet would be the judge would toss that one once your mom re-ups registration and comes to court with you.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:37:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:37:29 PM EDT
[#12]
He was just letting you know that he knew.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:41:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
He was just letting you know that he knew.


And now you know that he knew that you knew... and we all know.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:55:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
He was just letting you know that he knew.


And now you know that he knew that you knew... and we all know.


I know, right.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 2:59:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He was just letting you know that he knew.


And now you know that he knew that you knew... and we all know.


I know, right.


[paulharvey.jpg]
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 3:26:48 PM EDT
[#16]
I know it might not hurt to un-quirk myself around people; easier said than done I guess...  I've just never been one to volunteer information to other people; if you ask me I'll tell you, otherwise I'm pretty quiet.
As for the ticket aspect, like I said, PERSONALLY I felt it wasn't necessary to ticket me for the registration.  It's just my view, right/wrong.



It makes little sense to me to ticket a 30 yr old who's borrowed his mother's car for a registration 6 days out.  It's mostly just a pain since these ticket's get dropped once fixed.

Again, right/wrong, that's how I feel about it.  Now if the registration had expired a great time ago (87 days!) I'd be more accepting of a ticket.
I wasn't posting as much about the ticket, the story was just to relate why I thought the Trooper's timing was odd/late on asking if I was armed...



I'm pretty sure most people know when the police run your driver's license the computer notifies them of permit holders.  



So I knew he knew, but I didn't know he thought I didn't know that he knew.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 3:47:11 PM EDT
[#17]
I live in Missouri. Last time I was pulled over 78mph in a 60. When he asked for my license, registration and insurance. I told him my license was in my back pocket and my registration was in the glove box.  The officer came back to the car and asked If I had a Carry and Conceal. I said yes. And he then asked If I had the beard when I took the picture. I said no. Then he asked If I had anything in the car he should know about. At that point I believe he had already told me he thought I was carrying. So I said yes it's in the center console. He then got a weird look and ask what is in the center console sir. I replied my handgun.  He then explained the ticket and let me go with out checking the car.

The thing that was strange to me was I have a beard in my drivers license but not my CCW. He must have seen the picture from my CCW on the computer in his squad car. Now I'm wondering if there is a note in database about where I keep my pistol in my car with my license plate number.

Paranoid right?
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 4:01:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Meh, He's on auto pilot and giving tickets to get his numbers up. At the last moment he pulls his head out of his ass and asks the stupid question, when it didnt matter anymore. His stop was over he just wanted you to know that he saw the CCW permit. Yeah, he should retire or go to a Officer Safety class. I know from which I speak. I'm a cop of 19 years.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 4:33:06 PM EDT
[#19]
I am a full time officer in Ohio and in my county you cannot cite a person for expired registration if they are not the owner of the vehicle. I personally give at least 30 days past expiration before I issue a citation. I also could care less if a person with a ccw lets me know on a traffic stop or not, I'm more worried about the criminal or drug dealer that doesn't have a ccw and is carrying regarless of the law. I have had people freak out because they forgot to tell me they have a ccw and are carrying. I just smile and tell them not to worry about it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 4:43:25 PM EDT
[#20]
some states have a  grace period.... something to look into...

goto court with up to date tags... it'll get kicked...
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 4:47:11 PM EDT
[#21]





life tip 894: State Police do not pull you over for no reason .
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 4:56:19 PM EDT
[#22]



Quoted:
life tip 894: State Police do not pull you over for no reason .


Not tracking you...

 
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:03:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Renew reg. then take the paper work to the court house. It'll be dropped and you may not have to pay court costs. YMMV

I had to do that after I got a ticket in a work vehicle.

Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:06:55 PM EDT
[#24]
OP what city did this occur in? In Newport News the ticket will typically get tossed if you bring proof that the issue was corrected, especially considering the circumstances of your traffic stop. Of course this depends on the judge, and the day of the week just about any where, nothing is a certainty.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:07:12 PM EDT
[#25]
We aren't expired until the 15th day of the following month here, or  like that.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:09:58 PM EDT
[#26]
So.......Did you figure out Mom's wheel noise?
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:10:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I am a full time officer in Ohio and in my county you cannot cite a person for expired registration if they are not the owner of the vehicle. I personally give at least 30 days past expiration before I issue a citation. I also could care less if a person with a ccw lets me know on a traffic stop or not, I'm more worried about the criminal or drug dealer that doesn't have a ccw and is carrying regarless of the law. I have had people freak out because they forgot to tell me they have a ccw and are carrying. I just smile and tell them not to worry about it.


First, thank you for your service.  Second, thank you for the props to law abiding citizens!
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:11:14 PM EDT
[#28]
In Pa its usually just a warning with 5 days to get it, But it depends on the officer. I would always share that I am carrying and keep my hands well within view. The only time I had an issue and  I found it odd was I was pulled over for a tail lamp out. I shared that I was carrying. Then I had to go into my glove compartment for my cards and he said he would like his partner to hold my weapon first. That was actually on the front of my seat that he could not see. I said I guess so. I should have said I would prefer him not to but I am always respectful to a LEO. Well after he ran my info his partner comes up and dumps a pistol and empty mag and 14rds on my passenger seat. Then tells me to wait till they are gone before reloading.
 Now I no longer volunteer but if asked I would say so. I never did find out if the police are allowed to ask for the weapon. But I will question if it were necessary. I understand the risks police take and want to be respectful but expect the same in return. I would think being that I have a CCW permit and have had one for over 20 yrs should say that I stay away from problems or trouble.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:12:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Pics of mom are not loading....
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:13:14 PM EDT
[#30]
Seems to me to be a dick move not to register your the entire 30 days of the month due.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:14:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
PA hates their roads,


They are unbelievably terrible.  Would be MUCH better if they were dirt.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:15:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I know it might not hurt to un-quirk myself around people; easier said than done I guess...  I've just never been one to volunteer information to other people; if you ask me I'll tell you, otherwise I'm pretty quiet.



As for the ticket aspect, like I said, PERSONALLY I felt it wasn't necessary to ticket me for the registration.  It's just my view, right/wrong.

It makes little sense to me to ticket a 30 yr old who's borrowed his mother's car for a registration 6 days out.  It's mostly just a pain since these ticket's get dropped once fixed.
Again, right/wrong, that's how I feel about it.  Now if the registration had expired a great time ago (87 days!) I'd be more accepting of a ticket.



I wasn't posting as much about the ticket, the story was just to relate why I thought the Trooper's timing was odd/late on asking if I was armed...

I'm pretty sure most people know when the police run your driver's license the computer notifies them of permit holders.  

So I knew he knew, but I didn't know he thought I didn't know that he knew.


Couple of things...

1st....He can issue you a citation for expired registration one minute after it expires. He doesnt have to wait for 6 days, 8 days or 87 days.
Personally, I wait a month before issuing an expired plate citation. My rationale on waiting 30 days is that if you've gone that long after its expired, you either ignorant of the fact that its expired, or you're deliberately ignoring the fact that its expired. A citation for expired plates or expired registration is the fastest and easiest way to ensure compliance with the law.
It's called a compliance citation because when you come into compliance with the law, (ie, renew your plates or registration) the fines are either dropped completely or reduced significantly so as to encourage you to comply vs just keep going on your merry little way.

2nd....He doesnt care if its your car, your mother's car, or your brother's college roomate's other cousin Darryl....you are driving the car, therefore you're responsible for the car. Its easier to understand if you make an exaggerated analogy. Lets say you rented a car, got drunk, and drove through a restaurant and killed a couple of people. Would that be the responsibility of the driver or the rental car agency? You're driving the car, you're the responsible party for the vehicle.

As far as the trooper's timing on asking you about the gun......he might have been hinting that he would have preferred to be told about the gun before finding out through his computer.
If he didnt search the car or ask to see the gun, he wasnt bothered by you carrying it, (most cops honestly arent.)

I have never issued a citation to anyone who has ever told me about a concealed weapon in the car.
I encourage everyone to carry a weapon for their protection, and honestly treat everyone I meet as if they have a gun or some other sort of weapon.
I've never pulled over a CCW holder for a serious traffic violation, (IE DWI or C&I driving etc), so I've always given a warning for whatever I pulled them over for if they told me about their weapon when I first made contact with them.
I have issued citations to CCW permit holders who did have a gun who did not tell me about it until after I asked, which was after I had issued them a ticket.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:21:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I live in Missouri. Last time I was pulled over 78mph in a 60. When he asked for my license, registration and insurance. I told him my license was in my back pocket and my registration was in the glove box.  The officer came back to the car and asked If I had a Carry and Conceal. I said yes. And he then asked If I had the beard when I took the picture. I said no. Then he asked If I had anything in the car he should know about. At that point I believe he had already told me he thought I was carrying. So I said yes it's in the center console. He then got a weird look and ask what is in the center console sir. I replied my handgun.  He then explained the ticket and let me go with out checking the car.

The thing that was strange to me was I have a beard in my drivers license but not my CCW. He must have seen the picture from my CCW on the computer in his squad car. Now I'm wondering if there is a note in database about where I keep my pistol in my car with my license plate number.
Paranoid right?


There is no note in the database telling us where you keep your gun.
Missouri CCW permits are attached to the DL number and show up on the screen that you are a permit holder. They cant tell us if you're currently armed or just have the permit.
FWIW, there are ALOT of people in MO with the permits who claim to never carry a pistol. That seems really silly to me, but hey, its their choice.

OR

They are lying to me and are actually carrying their weapons and just dont want to tell me about it.
Eitherway....I dont go searching them to see whether or not they are armed when they say they arent.
The vast majority of CCW permit holders are good law abiding citizens and are not the people the I'm looking for anyway.

Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:40:47 PM EDT
[#34]



Quoted:



Quoted:

PA hates their roads,




They are unbelievably terrible.  Would be MUCH better if they were dirt.




No,  we just hate low riders.        Roads are fine if you drive an f350 with 10plys





 
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:45:28 PM EDT
[#35]
desperate need to have folks think they are all knowing.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:46:22 PM EDT
[#36]



Quoted:



Quoted:

I know it might not hurt to un-quirk myself around people; easier said than done I guess...  I've just never been one to volunteer information to other people; if you ask me I'll tell you, otherwise I'm pretty quiet.
As for the ticket aspect, like I said, PERSONALLY I felt it wasn't necessary to ticket me for the registration.  It's just my view, right/wrong.



It makes little sense to me to ticket a 30 yr old who's borrowed his mother's car for a registration 6 days out.  It's mostly just a pain since these ticket's get dropped once fixed.

Again, right/wrong, that's how I feel about it.  Now if the registration had expired a great time ago (87 days!) I'd be more accepting of a ticket.
I wasn't posting as much about the ticket, the story was just to relate why I thought the Trooper's timing was odd/late on asking if I was armed...



I'm pretty sure most people know when the police run your driver's license the computer notifies them of permit holders.  



So I knew he knew, but I didn't know he thought I didn't know that he knew.




Couple of things...



1st....He can issue you a citation for expired registration one minute after it expires. He doesnt have to wait for 6 days, 8 days or 87 days.

Personally, I wait a month before issuing an expired plate citation. My rationale on waiting 30 days is that if you've gone that long after its expired, you either ignorant of the fact that its expired, or you're deliberately ignoring the fact that its expired. A citation for expired plates or expired registration is the fastest and easiest way to ensure compliance with the law.

It's called a compliance citation because when you come into compliance with the law, (ie, renew your plates or registration) the fines are either dropped completely or reduced significantly so as to encourage you to comply vs just keep going on your merry little way.



2nd....He doesnt care if its your car, your mother's car, or your brother's college roomate's other cousin Darryl....you are driving the car, therefore you're responsible for the car. Its easier to understand if you make an exaggerated analogy. Lets say you rented a car, got drunk, and drove through a restaurant and killed a couple of people. Would that be the responsibility of the driver or the rental car agency? You're driving the car, you're the responsible party for the vehicle.



As far as the trooper's timing on asking you about the gun......he might have been hinting that he would have preferred to be told about the gun before finding out through his computer.

If he didnt search the car or ask to see the gun, he wasnt bothered by you carrying it, (most cops honestly arent.)



I have never issued a citation to anyone who has ever told me about a concealed weapon in the car.

I encourage everyone to carry a weapon for their protection, and honestly treat everyone I meet as if they have a gun or some other sort of weapon.

I've never pulled over a CCW holder for a serious traffic violation, (IE DWI or C&I driving etc), so I've always given a warning for whatever I pulled them over for if they told me about their weapon when I first made contact with them.

I have issued citations to CCW permit holders who did have a gun who did not tell me about it until after I asked, which was after I had issued them a ticket.




So, in a state that does not require you tell..   What is the preferred thing to do..     Not say anything or just hand your CHL with your DL.      Just saying outright kinda seems like something that can quickly draw unwanted attention.  





 
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 5:58:22 PM EDT
[#37]



My reason for not getting CCW right there!   And here in my cuntry of AZ, I dont have too!
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:00:27 PM EDT
[#38]





Quoted:



Usually expired registration is a fix it ticket. You renew the expired tags and show proof and the ticket is dismissed. Don't know about in VA.



This is pretty much the way it worked when I lived in Texas, although there was a $10 fee to cover the paperwork.  I thought that this was an entirely reasonable system.





Shortly after I moved to AZ, I got a ticket for expired registration.  "No worries," I thought.  "I'll get it renewed, take the registration to the courthouse, maybe pay a small fee, and we're done."





Um, no.  I showed them the registration, and they said "OK fine, but it was expired when you got the ticket."  After getting over the initial shock of the fact that she was not going to dismiss the charge after I got the registration promptly renewed, I did some begging and pleading, and got the fine reduced from $600 (yes, that's right, six hundred dollars American for an expired registration) to $123.  As much as I like it here, I have some issues with the motor vehicle laws of a state that has a higher fine for expired registration than for running a red light.




 
 
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:03:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:

So, in a state that does not require you tell..   What is the preferred thing to do..     Not say anything or just hand your CHL with your DL.      Just saying outright kinda seems like something that can quickly draw unwanted attention.  


Here's my take:

Me: "Hi, I'm Officer Maxx with the GD police dept. The reason I pulled you over today was because I got on you radar travelling 48 miles an hour in a 30 mph zone. Is there a reason for that?"
You: "No officer. I'm sorry, I wasnt paying attention."
"Okay, can I see your license and proof of insurance please?"
"Sure. But before I do, I want tell you I have a CCW permit and my weapon is in my center console/on my hip/under my seat/in my glovebox,(or where ever the hell you have it) and my wallet is my right back pocket. What would you like me to do from here?"
"Oh, thanks for telling me. You said your pistol is in the center console?"
"Yes, my insurance card is in the glove box."
"Okay, well why dont you hand me your driver's license and we'll go from there."


"Okay Sir. I'm going to give you a warning for the speed, please do me a favor and slow down through this area. By the way...what are you carrying?"

Some cops may want you to keep your hands out of the car where they can see them while they're running your DL. I havent as of yet since everyone I've ever stopped who had a valid CCW permit and tells me about it in advance, is not the person I'm looking for.

I treat everyone as if they have a gun, and are willing to kill me for stopping them.
You having a valid CCW permit and telling me about it advance lets me know you're one of the good guys.....


Not all cops are going to do things the way I do. But you'd be surprised at how often telling a cop in advance you're armed will help you.



Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:04:28 PM EDT
[#40]
He didn't care that you were carrying and he only asked so you'd know he was paying attention
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:12:42 PM EDT
[#41]


I once told an officer right away......he had me get of car....he got my weapon I declared and took it to his criuser.   He

came  back " nice gun"  got the mags first and then loose ammo,  rules say he had to download mags









Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:20:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I have this running theory that, no matter where you go, every state hates something.  As long as you're not doing that something, you have nothing to fear from the authorities.

In the Mid-Atlantic, for example, NJ hates guns, DE hates poor people, MD hates rich people, PA hates their roads, and VA hates cars.


I just really need to move to a state that hates hippies and live happily ever after.


Do Ohio!  Do Ohio!
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:25:24 PM EDT
[#43]
I was driving a car in VA with expired stickers on the plates this past Sunday with a local deputy coming up on my tail.  I know the vehicle owner had renewed the registration online and had the printed out card in the center console, but the stickers hadn't arrived yet.  Thought for SURE I was going to get pulled over and have to consider notifying the officer of me carrying (WV resident).  Then I realized he was going back to the sheriff's office, must have been end of shift or something.  I know the VA law has a sharp eye on expired tags.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:31:44 PM EDT
[#44]
virginia state police biggest assholes ive ever had to deal with.....   got 2 wreckless tickets inside 15 months and beat both
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:36:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Texas (Minus Austin)

Your Welcome
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:38:15 PM EDT
[#46]



Quoted:


Usually expired registration is a fix it ticket. You renew the expired tags and show proof and the ticket is dismissed. Don't know about in VA.


Not here.  They tow your vehicle.



 
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:39:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
snip

Not all cops are going to do things the way I do. But you'd be surprised at how often telling a cop in advance you're armed will help you.



I was pulled over the other day by a MO trooper for expired car registration (4 months expired, oops!) and had my M&P in a holster on the front seat.  He approached from the passenger side and I think expected me to roll my window down - but since I have manual windows and my gun was there, I figured it'd be better to just pop open the door.  First thing I did was tell him, "hey, my pistol is right on the seat there."  It's what I'd want people to do if I were pulling people over.  Funny, he said "you don't pull yours, I won't pull mine."



It didn't HELP me, but then, I don't think anything could/should/would help me out of a 4-month expired car registration.
Link Posted: 1/7/2013 6:44:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Sounds like he was just trying to get that free trip to the Bahamas for writing the most tickets that month.
Link Posted: 1/8/2013 3:00:24 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:


Here's my take:

Me: "Hi, I'm Officer Maxx with the GD police dept. The reason I pulled you over today was because I got on you radar travelling 48 miles an hour in a 30 mph zone. Is there a reason for that?"




Is there a possible answer that makes a difference?
Link Posted: 1/8/2013 4:06:11 AM EDT
[#50]



Quoted:


So.......Did you figure out Mom's wheel noise?


Yeah, the right front outer tie-rod (steering linkage) was about to fall off...  $30 and 10 minute fix, plus a ticket!

 



As for the ticket, again, I get that it was within his authority to issue the ticket.  I personally think it was dick to do.  
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