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Posted: 10/22/2013 4:07:57 AM EST
As I watched I ca't help but think what an abject failure he is as a leader. "Surging" talent to correct problems that would have been predicted by an 18 year old code writer isn't visionary. It's the mark of an absolute clown that has no real experience leading or managing people/projects. Even after 5 years this guy is so disconnected from leadership that it's embarrassing. I would love to read the in-progress reports that Sebelius's office submitted for the last 2 or 3 years...

I also can't help but wonder if this failure isn't by design in some fashion....


Best and the brigtest
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:13:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:15:50 AM EST
Didn't the Canadian government fire the same company who built the system? Who vetted these people? Who beta tested it?
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:19:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2013 4:20:16 AM EST by mjohn3006]
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Originally Posted By Jahdai42:
Didn't the Canadian government fire the same company who built the system? Who vetted these people? Who beta tested it?
View Quote


Seriously. I have been a career software quality assurance engineer/manager for over 10 years now. I am absolutely dumbfounded by this mess.
If I were the QA manager for this thing I would have probably suck started a shotgun by now.

Assuming there was a QA manager...... Because I almost find it hard to believe there was one. Or if there was one, it is possible their hands were tied, in which case they damn well have better documented every time a project lead told them to push out a build without full testing.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:27:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere

Best and the brigtest

Every contractor involved should have a false claims act case brought against them for worthless services. I would go so far as to say that criminal fraud charges should be evaluated.
View Quote


Agreed. My point is that this project has been in the works for years. Where were the in-progress reviews and metrics? How often was this briefed to POTUS? This is his signature achievement. Was he completely in the dark?

Again, leaders have an obligation to select solid subordinates and then manage them. Sebelius was BHO choice and her complete and absolute failures are direct reflection on Obama's leadership style....which is a complete lack of leadership. Much like Benghazi....where he "heard about on the news".

This guy is one thing and one thing only.....a political campaigner. Other than that he's a clown with less leadership qualities than a McDonald's manager.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:41:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2013 4:43:34 AM EST by navvet89]
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Originally Posted By pdm:


Agreed. My point is that this project has been in the works for years. Where were the in-progress reviews and metrics? How often was this briefed to POTUS? This is his signature achievement. Was he completely in the dark?

Again, leaders have an obligation to select solid subordinates and then manage them. Sebelius was BHO choice and her complete and absolute failures are direct reflection on Obama's leadership style....which is a complete lack of leadership. Much like Benghazi....where he "heard about on the news".

This guy is one thing and one thing only.....a political campaigner. Other than that he's a clown with less leadership qualities than a McDonald's manager.
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Originally Posted By pdm:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere

Best and the brigtest

Every contractor involved should have a false claims act case brought against them for worthless services. I would go so far as to say that criminal fraud charges should be evaluated.


Agreed. My point is that this project has been in the works for years. Where were the in-progress reviews and metrics? How often was this briefed to POTUS? This is his signature achievement. Was he completely in the dark?

Again, leaders have an obligation to select solid subordinates and then manage them. Sebelius was BHO choice and her complete and absolute failures are direct reflection on Obama's leadership style....which is a complete lack of leadership. Much like Benghazi....where he "heard about on the news".

This guy is one thing and one thing only.....a political campaigner. Other than that he's a clown with less leadership qualities than a McDonald's manager.

He's not a leader, he's a token figurehead (of the democratic socialists) with an undeserved sense of entitlement. His one and only purpose is to get the special interest vote for the democratic party and further the socialist agenda.

eta:

Some people should be going to jail over this one for spending a 1/3rd of a billion dollars and having nothing to show for it. Same deal with that green initiative money with companies like Solyndra
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:44:26 AM EST
Good points by all of you in this
thread. FBHO.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:58:01 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:


Seriously. I have been a career software quality assurance engineer/manager for over 10 years now. I am absolutely dumbfounded by this mess.
If I were the QA manager for this thing I would have probably suck started a shotgun by now.

Assuming there was a QA manager...... Because I almost find it hard to believe there was one. Or if there was one, it is possible their hands were tied, in which case they damn well have better documented every time a project lead told them to push out a build without full testing.
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Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Originally Posted By Jahdai42:
Didn't the Canadian government fire the same company who built the system? Who vetted these people? Who beta tested it?


Seriously. I have been a career software quality assurance engineer/manager for over 10 years now. I am absolutely dumbfounded by this mess.
If I were the QA manager for this thing I would have probably suck started a shotgun by now.

Assuming there was a QA manager...... Because I almost find it hard to believe there was one. Or if there was one, it is possible their hands were tied, in which case they damn well have better documented every time a project lead told them to push out a build without full testing.


Beta testing, your joking right

I had to test parts of the website in August and it looked like it was released to interested parties before even being subjected to alpha testing. I especially loved seeing problems get fixed, only to reappear when they implemented later fixes to address other problems.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:59:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jahdai42:
Didn't the Canadian government fire the same company who built the system? Who vetted these people? Who beta tested it?
View Quote


Yep
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 4:59:58 AM EST
But he's got top men working on the problem right now!

Who?

Top.

Men.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:01:09 AM EST
"Surge"

lol
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:01:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:04:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:04:58 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
But he's got top men working on the problem right now!

Who?

Top.

Men.
View Quote

Got it.


Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:07:07 AM EST
Wait until the libs suggest we hold off on the mandate till next year! What shutdown?
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:09:15 AM EST
Same song, different verse.

FBI blew $170 million developing worthless software

Many big software projects go poorly, both in and out of government, so this is really no surprise. I wouldn't want to be the guy in charge of stress testing healthcare.gov. Probably some GS-9 with a degree in ethnomusicology.


Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:15:37 AM EST
Gee, if only we had an experienced domestic software development industry we wouldn't have had to outsource the work to that technical giant to the north.

I guess Canada did invent the interweb first - of course - the Canadian interweb being that string that attaches your mittens to the sleeve of your parka.

It's bad enough to waste my damn tax money, but at least waste it here.

Assholes.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:17:38 AM EST
The problem is we sent it out of country. We can't do anything right. Hell, we could have given the contract to Amazon or eBay.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:18:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2013 5:23:30 AM EST by Kevyn]
...and these 'techies' are the same ones Barry is depending on to 'fund' this swindle?

How cruel. Fix this so we can enroll you and tax you. How ironic.

Embrace the communist suck.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:35:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2013 5:40:46 AM EST by ultramagbrion]
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:


Without a doubt.
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
But he's got top men working on the problem right now!

Who?

Top.

Men.


Without a doubt.


Let's hope and pray that the same level of professionalism and technical savvy was involved with the NSA's new data storage facility in Utah .....and many other future projects .

ETA . . . .aw shucks http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/10/17/nsas-utah-data-center-suffers-new-round-of-electrical-problems/
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:35:11 AM EST
They said on the news this morning that 20k people crashed it when it launched.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:39:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:43:00 AM EST
New, Improved Obamacare Program Released On 35 Floppy Disks
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Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:44:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Buzz69:
New, Improved Obamacare Program Released On 35 Floppy Disks


http://o.onionstatic.com/images/23/23949/original/700.jpg?8131






^$&@!(#~! bad sector encountered on disk 42.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 5:59:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:02:13 AM EST
If you code HTML, this is a great chance to milk .gov out of a few $$ hundred grand. I say go for it, they are printing money as fast as they can, so go get some
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:07:06 AM EST
I'm not sure that people who aren't in software development really understand just how fubared this is.

The public-facing part that's fucked up isn't even that difficult.

Before all is said and done, they're going to need to scrap 100% of this code.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:10:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I'm not sure that people who aren't in software development really understand just how fubared this is.

The public-facing part that's fucked up isn't even that difficult.

Before all is said and done, they're going to need to scrap 100% of this code.
View Quote


THis is true. They didn't have an architectural plan when they started. So now it can't be fixed.

The surge? Well it's calculated according to this theory: 1 man-year = 730 programmers working unitl lunch today. But, they won't fix shit, because it's broke to the core.

LOL

[popcorn.gif]
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:10:19 AM EST
But wait they are using Verizon. HAs anyone here EVER had a bad experience with Verizon customer service? The copper side does not speak to the fiber side, and don't even mention wireless to the other two...
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:12:46 AM EST



This pleases me to no end.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:13:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:


Every contractor involved should have a false claims act case brought against them for worthless services. I would go so far as to say that criminal fraud charges should be evaluated.
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By pdm:
As I watched I ca't help but think what an abject failure he is as a leader. "Surging" talent to correct problems that would have been predicted by an 18 year old code writer isn't visionary. It's the mark of an absolute clown that has no real experience leading or managing people/projects. Even after 5 years this guy is so disconnected from leadership that it's embarrassing. I would love to read the in-progress reports that Sebelius's office submitted for the last 2 or 3 years...

I also can't help but wonder if this failure isn't by design in some fashion....


Best and the brigtest


Every contractor involved should have a false claims act case brought against them for worthless services. I would go so far as to say that criminal fraud charges should be evaluated.

Why? They all told the administration that this was a terrible design, they told them it was behind schedule, they told them there were issues with the way they wanted it to work.

It's not the contractor's fault they were hired by a bunch of incompetent morons.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:14:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Danner130:


THis is true. They didn't have an architectural plan when they started. So now it can't be fixed.

The surge? Well it's calculated according to this theory: 1 man-year = 730 programmers working unitl lunch today. But, they won't fix shit, because it's broke to the core.

LOL

[popcorn.gif]
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Originally Posted By Danner130:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I'm not sure that people who aren't in software development really understand just how fubared this is.

The public-facing part that's fucked up isn't even that difficult.

Before all is said and done, they're going to need to scrap 100% of this code.


THis is true. They didn't have an architectural plan when they started. So now it can't be fixed.

The surge? Well it's calculated according to this theory: 1 man-year = 730 programmers working unitl lunch today. But, they won't fix shit, because it's broke to the core.

LOL

[popcorn.gif]


an enterprising WH pool reporter could ask to see user stories, wireframes, mockups, and prototypes.

heck, for some real fun ask to see the burndown.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:21:30 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:


an enterprising WH pool reporter could ask to see user stories, wireframes, mockups, and prototypes.

heck, for some real fun ask to see the burndown.
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Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
Originally Posted By Danner130:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I'm not sure that people who aren't in software development really understand just how fubared this is.

The public-facing part that's fucked up isn't even that difficult.

Before all is said and done, they're going to need to scrap 100% of this code.


THis is true. They didn't have an architectural plan when they started. So now it can't be fixed.

The surge? Well it's calculated according to this theory: 1 man-year = 730 programmers working unitl lunch today. But, they won't fix shit, because it's broke to the core.

LOL

[popcorn.gif]


an enterprising WH pool reporter could ask to see user stories, wireframes, mockups, and prototypes.

heck, for some real fun ask to see the burndown.

Do you think the project manager on this even knows what a user story or defect is? They probably can use email and IE7, and that was their main job qualification.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:33:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:


Every contractor involved should have a false claims act case brought against them for worthless services. I would go so far as to say that criminal fraud charges should be evaluated.
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By pdm:
As I watched I ca't help but think what an abject failure he is as a leader. "Surging" talent to correct problems that would have been predicted by an 18 year old code writer isn't visionary. It's the mark of an absolute clown that has no real experience leading or managing people/projects. Even after 5 years this guy is so disconnected from leadership that it's embarrassing. I would love to read the in-progress reports that Sebelius's office submitted for the last 2 or 3 years...

I also can't help but wonder if this failure isn't by design in some fashion....


Best and the brigtest


Every contractor involved should have a false claims act case brought against them for worthless services. I would go so far as to say that criminal fraud charges should be evaluated.


I'm not sure that would work as well as you think. From what I'm hearing, the contractor's were being pulled around in 87 different directions, with politicians making project decisions. Developers would be working on something, only to be told "scratch that and do it this way. I need it done asap." which - as any project manager who has dealt with the public/political sector should know - is doomed to abject failure.

In fact, the amount of resources required to fix a system built on that kind of foundation is often more than it would take to build it correctly from scratch. I doubt the developers and contractors deserve all of the blame - but they do own some of it, no question.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:34:14 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ARDestructo:

Do you think the project manager on this even knows what a user story or defect is? They probably can use email and IE7, and that was their main job qualification.
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Originally Posted By ARDestructo:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
Originally Posted By Danner130:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I'm not sure that people who aren't in software development really understand just how fubared this is.

The public-facing part that's fucked up isn't even that difficult.

Before all is said and done, they're going to need to scrap 100% of this code.


THis is true. They didn't have an architectural plan when they started. So now it can't be fixed.

The surge? Well it's calculated according to this theory: 1 man-year = 730 programmers working unitl lunch today. But, they won't fix shit, because it's broke to the core.

LOL

[popcorn.gif]


an enterprising WH pool reporter could ask to see user stories, wireframes, mockups, and prototypes.

heck, for some real fun ask to see the burndown.

Do you think the project manager on this even knows what a user story or defect is? They probably can use email and IE7, and that was their main job qualification.


I don't think there *IS* a PM on this project!
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 6:56:41 AM EST
"Best and Brightest"

"Surge"

Can't even think of new catchphrases, eh?
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:18:44 AM EST
I'm a tech retard. In you guy's who are tech savvy opinion can this thing be fixed before the enrollment deadlines kick in?
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:19:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dwkennedy:
Same song, different verse.

FBI blew $170 million developing worthless software

Many big software projects go poorly, both in and out of government, so this is really no surprise. I wouldn't want to be the guy in charge of stress testing healthcare.gov. Probably some GS-9 with a degree in ethnomusicology.


View Quote


Think it happened with IRS and FAA also some years ago. Integration and standardization problems and all sech IIRC. This is integration of health data with Immigration, Social Security, Homeland Security, the IRS, and the penal systems so you just know it is a supersweet deal.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:20:35 AM EST
Brooke's Law

Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:21:44 AM EST
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Originally Posted By OLI62:
I'm a tech retard. In you guy's who are tech savvy opinion can this thing be fixed before the enrollment deadlines kick in?
View Quote
probably not.

not only does it appear to be an overall disaster from a software architecture perspective it is also woefully undersized as far as capacity.

but that wont stop the gov from throwing 100's of millions more tax payer dollars down the rabbit hole.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:27:34 AM EST
What I know about computer code wouldn't fill a luggage tag, but from what I've seen it looks like it would literally be quicker to start over.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:33:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:34:59 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By keroppl:
Brooke's Law

Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later.
View Quote


yup

nine women can't make a baby in one month
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:41:51 AM EST
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Anyone who has any experience with bringing in outsiders on a project that's been up and running for a while to solve the problem is laughing their ass off at this. The notion that you can parachute in some sort of tech geniuses like they're Special Forces and just slay the dragons is fucking retarded. For all their attempts to look tech savvy and for all the faith they put in technology, it shows quite clearly that they have no fucking clue how the sausage is made.
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Anyone who has any experience with bringing in outsiders on a project that's been up and running for a while to solve the problem is laughing their ass off at this. The notion that you can parachute in some sort of tech geniuses like they're Special Forces and just slay the dragons is fucking retarded. For all their attempts to look tech savvy and for all the faith they put in technology, it shows quite clearly that they have no fucking clue how the sausage is made.



This is what comes of electing someone who has absolutely no executive experience or involvement in the real world. When your entire existence has been as a muckraking assfuck you have no understanding of the processes that make shit possible. That comes back to haunt you when you're in the big chair where you are supposed to make shit happen.


what we're experiencing here is a collection of people that have not seen the reality of software development.

they see the "winners" and think it's easy to emulate that

for every Amazon, eBay, Facebook, and Twitter, there are LITERALLY thousands of companies that have failed, learned from experience, regrouped, etc. Heck Amazon, eBay, Facebook, and Twitter have failed themselves... miserably in many cases... but learned and adapted.

Does anyone know what Odeo is???? How about Burbn?
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:42:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:44:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
what we're experiencing here is a collection of people that have not seen the reality of software development.

they see the "winners" and think it's easy to emulate that
View Quote

That's a kind way to put it.

In reality, you're seeing a collection of people who have never done anything. They're a bunch of bureaucrats that think you can make great things happen with a good attitude and majority vote. The guy at the top's biggest accomplishment is running a political campaign well. He's never produced a fucking thing, and he's never managed anyone who has.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:44:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2013 7:45:54 AM EST by NoVaGator]
HUGE companies with massive experience fuck up projects of this scope and complexity too.

NMCI ring a bell?
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:49:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2013 7:59:33 AM EST by 1811guy]
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:51:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:56:23 AM EST
Tech Surge sounds like he thinks he's playing a video game. He'll just say anything at this point. I can't believe it's actually selling.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:57:03 AM EST
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


Precisely...and the challenges those companies faced were SIMPLE compared to this healthcare clusterfuck. And the companies acted with a free hand. They could make executive decisions quickly. We will do X, we won't do Y. Resist and you're fired.

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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
for every Amazon, eBay, Facebook, and Twitter, there are LITERALLY thousands of companies that have failed, learned from experience, regrouped, etc. Heck Amazon, eBay, Facebook, and Twitter have failed themselves... miserably in many cases... but learned and adapted.


Precisely...and the challenges those companies faced were SIMPLE compared to this healthcare clusterfuck. And the companies acted with a free hand. They could make executive decisions quickly. We will do X, we won't do Y. Resist and you're fired.




Perhaps more importantly, those companies are the product of random walk.

They did not begin with the end in mind... they took the next step and the next step was a consequence of the prior step.

Complex, purpose-built backend administrative systems aren't developed that way. They're built by SMEs working in conjunction with PMs.

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