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Posted: 12/11/2013 2:22:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 3:03:02 PM EST by KA3B]
Old info - my bad - I didn't read the date of the post
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:26:47 PM EST
My opinion is unpopular, but I think the F-35 will be a success in the long run
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:30:34 PM EST
It is what it is a multi-role, multi-service, multi-national aircraft and you're just not going to please a lot of people doing that type of aircraft.

I think for what has been demanded by the end users LM has done a great job and certainly better than any other contractor could have done with the JSF program.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:36:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Caboose314:
My opinion is unpopular, but I think the F-35 will be a success in the long run
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Not unlike the B47.

How will you define success?

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:38:52 PM EST
Still a huge waste of money that will likely never see one incident of meaningful combat. The only encouraging thing is that if the money wasn't spent on this it would probably just get wasted on welfare or benefits.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:42:19 PM EST
How many months of down time will the jet require after this?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:43:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:45:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Caboose314:
My opinion is unpopular, but I think the F-35 will be a success in the long run
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With the amount of money being blown on it, I would sure HOPE that it eventually turns out to be a good machine that meets its goals
and performs well!

Think how much worse things would be if after all that money spent, it turned out to suck!


CJ
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:45:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By outofstep:
How many months of down time will the jet require after this?
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This article is 2 years old. They're still testing.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:46:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Caboose314:
My opinion is unpopular, but I think the F-35 will be a success in the long run
View Quote


Like the M1 Abrams. I still remember the news stories from the late '70s during development, about how big a piece of shit the tank was and how the American taxpayer had been sold a bill of goods and how it would never stand up to Soviet equipment and how expensive it was and how we had better dump the project and start over.

It turned out a bit differently.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:46:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 2:49:02 PM EST by MadMonkey]
It's funny getting to watch the cycle myself after reading about teething problems/development issues/setbacks/etc of many past programs. Same group of people bitch and moan about how much the new aircraft sucks, then we use it successfully for the next 30 years

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Originally Posted By SilentType:
It is what it is a multi-role, multi-service, multi-national aircraft and you're just not going to please a lot of people doing that type of aircraft.
View Quote


Yeah, it's never worked before
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:46:52 PM EST
I can only imagine it looked like a fat chick burning down the last 100m on a track.

She's fat...we want lean like the F22 hottie.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:47:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 2:48:43 PM EST by theskuh]
the 100th f35 off the production line in sept.





Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:48:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:49:19 PM EST
I like the f-35 and F-22 programs... but they cost so damn much...
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:49:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By redoubt:


Like the M1 Abrams. I still remember the news stories from the late '70s during development, about how big a piece of shit the tank was and how the American taxpayer had been sold a bill of goods and how it would never stand up to Soviet equipment and how expensive it was and how we had better dump the project and start over.

It turned out a bit differently.
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Originally Posted By redoubt:
Originally Posted By Caboose314:
My opinion is unpopular, but I think the F-35 will be a success in the long run


Like the M1 Abrams. I still remember the news stories from the late '70s during development, about how big a piece of shit the tank was and how the American taxpayer had been sold a bill of goods and how it would never stand up to Soviet equipment and how expensive it was and how we had better dump the project and start over.

It turned out a bit differently.
a better comparison for politics behind the program would be the Bradley
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:50:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Hunter8793:
I like the f-35 and F-22 programs... but they cost so damn much...
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buy in bulk, its cheaper
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:50:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By wookie1562:

This article is 2 years old. They're still testing.
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Originally Posted By wookie1562:
Originally Posted By outofstep:
How many months of down time will the jet require after this?

This article is 2 years old. They're still testing.


I'm assuming it's still not in the air then.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:51:04 PM EST
Mach 1.6? Wow! That's amazing! Almost circa 1953 level capabilities!
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:51:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 2:54:34 PM EST by theskuh]
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Originally Posted By CFII:
Wow, 100 already? Well thats good to hear. At least we are receiving them.
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yeah surprised me as well. Was browsing the Lockheed Martin Flickr page today. October was the first live fire weapons test. AIM-120 AMRAAM


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:54:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Cypher15:
a better comparison for politics behind the program would be the Bradley
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Originally Posted By Cypher15:
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Originally Posted By Caboose314:
My opinion is unpopular, but I think the F-35 will be a success in the long run


Like the M1 Abrams. I still remember the news stories from the late '70s during development, about how big a piece of shit the tank was and how the American taxpayer had been sold a bill of goods and how it would never stand up to Soviet equipment and how expensive it was and how we had better dump the project and start over.

It turned out a bit differently.
a better comparison for politics behind the program would be the Bradley


Maybe, but I was thinking about the complaints that it just wasn't going to work. There were lots of stories about the M1 being too fragile, needing too much maintenance, being too hard to service, using too much fuel, relying too heavily on unproven electronics, and being too expensive to build in sufficient numbers to counter the Warsaw Pact.

That seems to parallel a lot of the comments I see here.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:54:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Hunter8793:
I like the f-35 and F-22 programs... but they cost so damn much...
View Quote


Our Congress deserves a big part of the blame for that one. The JSF program has so many damn subcontractors attached to it and political decisions about who gets what contract play as big a role as anything else so they can appease representatives by bringing jobs to their districts. Add to that environmental impact studies and just metric tons of red tape and you end up with a big price tag.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:55:18 PM EST
Did they put a rear view camera in them yet?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:56:16 PM EST
Why didn't they go with a one-piece canopy like the F22? If it's anything like my Chevy HHR those sidebars cause a lot of blind spot.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:57:10 PM EST
I remember watching the documentary on the JSF competition back in 2003.

Seems like 10 years ago.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:57:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 2:59:10 PM EST by AeroE]
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:59:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Visionary:
Still a huge waste of money that will likely never see one incident of meaningful combat. The only encouraging thing is that if the money wasn't spent on this it would probably just get wasted on welfare or benefits.
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You don't understand. A weapon system's utility is not only determined by whether it sees combat. It's utility is based on it's ability to deter our enemies from wanting to fuck with us in the first place.

What you are suggesting means that our nukes have absolutely no more utility because they haven't seen combat since WWII. Deterrence matters.

With that said I think the F-35 is massively over budget and is going to be a giant turd. But who knows, if they keep throwing unlimited funds at the aircraft's problems, maybe all the issues will be worked out in block 45 of production.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:59:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By vxtip545:
Why didn't they go with a one-piece canopy like the F22? If it's anything like my Chevy HHR those sidebars cause a lot of blind spot.
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Because the EODAS provides synthetic vision for the pilot allowing them to see through the aircraft.

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:00:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By theskuh:

yeah surprised me as well. Was browsing the Lockheed Martin Flickr page today. October was the first live fire weapons test. AIM-120 AMRAAM

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/10597555665_63d1ed318f_c.jpg
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Originally Posted By theskuh:
Originally Posted By CFII:
Wow, 100 already? Well thats good to hear. At least we are receiving them.

yeah surprised me as well. Was browsing the Lockheed Martin Flickr page today. October was the first live fire weapons test. AIM-120 AMRAAM

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/10597555665_63d1ed318f_c.jpg



Reminiscent of an Iranian "Super (genius)" stealth jet photoshop.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:00:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 3:00:46 PM EST by wookie1562]
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Originally Posted By AeroE:

There's a two year assignment at Edwards AFB working F-35/JDAM integration if I want it.

On the one hand, I'd be leaving my wife here, and she always buys large appliances when I'm gone. On the other, there's some by God awesome soaring out there. On still another, I have no doubt that the schedule will absolutely blow.

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I just spent some time TDY there. The Lancaster/Palmdale area is absolute shit. But it's pretty close to LA. From my VERY limited observations, they were working banker's hours.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:01:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SilentType:


Our Congress deserves a big part of the blame for that one. The JSF program has so many damn subcontractors attached to it and political decisions about who gets what contract play as big a role as anything else so they can appease representatives by bringing jobs to their districts. Add to that environmental impact studies and just metric tons of red tape and you end up with a big price tag.
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Originally Posted By SilentType:
Originally Posted By Hunter8793:
I like the f-35 and F-22 programs... but they cost so damn much...


Our Congress deserves a big part of the blame for that one. The JSF program has so many damn subcontractors attached to it and political decisions about who gets what contract play as big a role as anything else so they can appease representatives by bringing jobs to their districts. Add to that environmental impact studies and just metric tons of red tape and you end up with a big price tag.

I would love to see a cost breakdown of the f-35 and f-22.

"The United States plans to buy 2,443 aircraft. " thats just versions of the F-35 that range from $153m-$199m cost per plane....

Only 195 F-22s were built at around $150m a pop.

I would have personally ordered more F-22s than F-35s.

A lot of politics envolved in getting .gov contracts..
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:02:23 PM EST
waiit.... this isn't a selfie thread!
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 3:03:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 3:03:43 PM EST by mcculver5]
old, so old.
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