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Posted: 12/18/2009 1:18:23 PM EDT
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/18/report_aresi_aresv_nasa_new_direction/

Obama banks on NASA's big launcher







Ares I set for scrap heap, says report





Posted in Space, 18th December 2009 22:11 GMT
US President Barack Obama will ask Congress to jettison NASA's plans
to develop its next-generation Ares 1 crew launch vehicle and increase
funds for the "simpler" Ares V heavy lift rocket to replace the space
shuttle fleet.
The revised direction for US human space flight was decided
Wednesday at a White House meeting with NASA administrator Charles
Bolden, according to Science Insider,
citing "officials familiar with the discussion." NASA would receive an
extra $1bn in 2011 under the plan towards developing the heavy lift
launcher as well as creating more robotic Earth-snooping spacecraft,
the publication reports.


















Under NASA's current plans for human spaceflight to the moon and
beyond, the two-stage Ares I rocket is designed to be topped by the
Orion crew vehicle and its launch aboard system. The vehicle's primary
intent would be to carry crews of four to six astronauts to Earth orbit
or to use its 25-ton payload capacity to deliver supplies to the
International Space Station.

















Ares V is planned to be NASA's primary vessel for delivering
large-scale hardware to space, such as lunar landers, materials for a
moon base, or supplies needed for extended missions beyond Earth's
orbit. Ares V can carry about 188 metric tons to low-Earth orbit.





The lighter Ares V rocket, however, has faced major delays and
technical problems, and was excluded from recommendations provided by
an outside committee tasked earlier this year by president Obama with
reviewing the future of the US human space flight program. One option
was to develop two separate "lite" versions of Ares V, providing for
more robust mission mass and volume margins.





According to Science Insider, the White House believes
NASA funding is better spent on the heavy-lift vehicle, which could be
ready as soon as 2018. European countries, Japan, and Canada would be
asked to work on a lunar lander and modules for a moon base and
commercial companies would take the job of launching supplies to the
ISS, the site reports.





But several questions about NASA's future remain, such as whether
the shuttle program will be retired in 2010 as planned and whether a
future mission to Mars is even still on the agenda.











The report claims there's no indication when the new policy will be
announced, but speculates it could land as early as next week or be on
hold for Obama's State of the Union address in January.

 
 
 
 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:40:14 PM EDT
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:43:08 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Phocks:


Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.







 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...





Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:46:11 PM EDT
Ares I set for scrap heap, says report

I'm ready, USPS MO sent!
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:47:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


I'm failing to see how sending shit into orbit is a safeguard to the human race.........
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:50:37 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Tekka:





Originally Posted By Phocks:

Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.





 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...






Which is fine but it will take longer for it to go on-line and what do we do in the meantime for manned launches?  Was Ares V even supposed to be man-rated?



We're putting a LOT of faith in the Russians to take up the slack for us.



Space X better get its ass in gear with Dragon/Falcon 9 looks like were going to need it.



 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:54:10 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Airwolf:





Originally Posted By Tekka:




Originally Posted By Phocks:

Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.





 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...






Which is fine but it will take longer for it to go on-line and what do we do in the meantime for manned launches?  Was Ares V even supposed to be man-rated?



We're putting a LOT of faith in the Russians to take up the slack for us.



Space X better get its ass in gear with Dragon/Falcon 9 looks like were going to need it.

 


i was at their facility a few months back - they seem to be coming along nicely,  bringing a lot of stuff in house to decrease the timeline



 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:54:26 PM EDT
yup, obamas an idiot.  if hes trying to save money for a moon landing... i kind of get it but, then putting crew on the big one means less supplies and such for them.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:54:35 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Airwolf:





Originally Posted By Tekka:




Originally Posted By Phocks:

Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.





 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...






Which is fine but it will take longer for it to go on-line and what do we do in the meantime for manned launches?  Was Ares V even supposed to be man-rated?



We're putting a LOT of faith in the Russians to take up the slack for us.



Space X better get its ass in gear with Dragon/Falcon 9 looks like were going to need it.

 


If NASA wanted top develop it quickly they could, but I think there are too many people obsessed with process who love to drag things out.

 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:55:07 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Specop_007:



Originally Posted By Phocks:

Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.




I'm failing to see how sending shit into orbit is a safeguard to the human race.........







 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:56:07 PM EDT
In before the Delta fanboys.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:57:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...



I prefer:

Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:58:14 PM EDT
Wasn't there another program competing with Ares? Jupiter or something? Any word about NASA deciding on that?
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 1:59:21 PM EDT


just send that crazy CEO of Virgin up to the moon and have him bring an IMAX camera crew with him.

that's what i really want.  a nice video/movie of people on the moon.  enough of having to look at grainy late 60's footage.


Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:02:15 PM EDT





Originally Posted By Procyon:





Originally Posted By Tekka:
Originally Posted By Phocks:


Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.








 

He's saying go for the large one on the right...













I prefer:





http://www.startrekdesktopwallpaper.com/new_wallpaper/Star_Trek_USS_Enterprise_E_freecomputerdesktopwallpaper_1600.jpg



As utterly beautiful as a Sovereign class is, I'll settle for this:












if it gets us off this damn rock!  






 
 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:06:58 PM EDT
so obama is not only a nobel peace prize winner... hes also a Rocket Surgeon too

Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:09:34 PM EDT
The president signed the paper... he didn't make the decision.  

Y'all ever wonder if the reason no one knows where the Stimulus money went is because we're building something outrageously cool?
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:11:01 PM EDT
I actually heard Obama is pushing for a more cost-effective lifter.

Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:13:48 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:


I actually heard Obama is pushing for a more cost-effective lifter.



http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=14934






I actually was going to use that image but decided that not enough people would recognize Salvage 1, so I went with Serenity.  



 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:16:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By valheru21:
Y'all ever wonder if the reason no one knows where the Stimulus money went is because we're building something outrageously cool?

The "B" ark, if we're lucky.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:16:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
I actually heard Obama is pushing for a more cost-effective lifter.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=14934



I actually was going to use that image but decided that not enough people would recognize Salvage 1, so I went with Serenity.  
 


I prefer to kick it old-school.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:16:46 PM EDT
I wonder if NASA has a DRMO.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:17:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mnd:
Originally Posted By valheru21:
Y'all ever wonder if the reason no one knows where the Stimulus money went is because we're building something outrageously cool?

The "B" ark, if we're lucky.




I wonder how many people will get that reference.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:19:26 PM EDT



Originally Posted By mnd:



Originally Posted By valheru21:

Y'all ever wonder if the reason no one knows where the Stimulus money went is because we're building something outrageously cool?


The "B" ark, if we're lucky.



Nice work!



 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:20:40 PM EDT



Originally Posted By mnd:



Originally Posted By valheru21:

Y'all ever wonder if the reason no one knows where the Stimulus money went is because we're building something outrageously cool?


The "B" ark, if we're lucky.



Except this time instead of telephone sanitizers and hairdressers, everyone that voted for Obama gets sent.






 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:21:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...



Where does the door gunner sit on that thing
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:22:28 PM EDT
We talk about this almost everyday at work. It will take us several months to shut down Ares I development before we can retool for Ares V.  I'm worried about all of those folks that Boeing hired for the Ares I contract. There will be a lag time between this shut down and the bid for the Ares V.  Those poor guys are going to be thrown out into a tough situation when they lay them off.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:22:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Originally Posted By mnd:
Originally Posted By valheru21:
Y'all ever wonder if the reason no one knows where the Stimulus money went is because we're building something outrageously cool?

The "B" ark, if we're lucky.




I wonder how many people will get that reference.


The 'B' Ark

... "I mean, I couldn't help noticing," said Ford, also taking a sip, "the bodies. In the hold."

"Bodies?" said the Captain in surprise.

Ford paused and thought to himself. Never take anything for granted, he thought. Could it be that the Captain doesn't know he's got fifteen million dead bodies on his ship?

The Captain was nodding cheerfully at him. He also appeared to be playing with a rubber duck.

Ford looked around. Number Two was staring at him in the mirror, but only for an instant: his eyes were constantly on the move. The first officer was just standing there holding the drinks tray and smiling benignly.

"Bodies?" said the Captain again.

Ford licked his lips.

"Yes," he said, "All those dead telephone sanitizers and account executives, you know, down in the hold."

The Captain stared at him. Suddenly he threw back his head and laughed.

"Oh they're not dead," he said, "Good Lord no, no they're frozen. They're going to be revived."

Ford did something he very rarely did. He blinked.

Arthur seemed to come out of a trance.

"You mean you've got a hold full of frozen hairdressers?" he said.

"Oh yes," said the Captain, "Millions of them. Hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants, you name them. We're going to colonize another planet."

Ford wobbled very slightly.

"Exciting isn't it?" said the Captain.

"What, with that lot?" said Arthur.

"Ah, now don't misunderstand me," said the Captain, "we're just one of the ships in the Ark Fleet. We're the 'B' Ark you see. Sorry, could I just ask you to run a bit more hot water for me?"

Arthur obliged, and a cascade of pink frothy water swirled around the bath. The Captain let out a sigh of pleasure.

"Thank you so much my dear fellow. Do help yourselves to more drinks of course."

Ford tossed down his drink, took the bottle from the first officer's tray and refilled his glass to the top.

"What," he said, "is a 'B' Ark?"

"This is," said the Captain, and swished the foamy water around joyfully with the duck.

"Yes," said Ford, "but ..."

"Well what happened you see was," said the Captain, "our planet, the world from which we have come, was, so to speak, doomed."

"Doomed?"

"Oh yes. So what everyone thought was, let's pack the whole population into some giant spaceships and go and settle on another planet."

Having told this much of his story, he settled back with a satisfied grunt.

"You mean a less doomed one?" prompted Arthur.

"What did you say dear fellow?"

"A less doomed planet. You were going to settle on."

"Are going to settle on, yes. So it was decided to build three ships, you see, three Arks in Space, and ... I'm not boring you am I?"

"No, no," said Ford firmly, "it's fascinating."

"You know it's delightful," reflected the Captain, "to have someone else to talk to for a change."

Number Two's eyes darted feverishly about the room again and then settled back on the mirror, like a pair of flies briefly distracted from their favourite prey of months old meat.

"Trouble with a long journey like this," continued the Captain,"is that you end up just talking to yourself a lot, which gets terribly boring because half the time you know what you're going to say next."

"Only half the time?" asked Arthur in surprise.

The Captain thought for a moment.

"Yes, about half I'd say. Anyway - where's the soap?" He fished around and found it.

"Yes, so anyway," he resumed, "the idea was that into the first ship, the 'A' ship, would go all the brilliant leaders, the scientists, the great artists, you know, all the achievers; and into the third, or 'C' ship, would go all the people who did the actual work, who made things and did things, and then into the `B' ship - that's us - would go everyone else, the middlemen you see."

He smiled happily at them.

"And we were sent off first," he concluded, and hummed a little bathing tune.

The little bathing tune, which had been composed for him by one of his world's most exciting and prolific jingle writer (who was currently asleep in hold thirty-six some nine hundred yards behind them) covered what would otherwise have been an awkward moment of silence. Ford and Arthur shuffled their feet and furiously avoided each other's eyes.

"Er ..." said Arthur after a moment, "what exactly was it that was wrong with your planet then?"

"Oh, it was doomed, as I said," said the Captain, "Apparently it was going to crash into the sun or something. Or maybe it was that the moon was going to crash into us. Something of the kind. Absolutely terrifying prospect whatever it was."

"Oh," said the first officer suddenly, "I thought it was that the planet was going to be invaded by a gigantic swarm of twelve foot piranha bees. Wasn't that it?"

Number Two span around, eyes ablaze with a cold hard light that only comes with the amount of practise he was prepared to put in.

"That's not what I was told!" he hissed, "My commanding officer told me that the entire planet was in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat!"

"Oh really ..." said Ford Prefect.

"Yes! A monstrous creature from the pit of hell with scything teeth ten thousand miles long, breath that would boil oceans, claws that could tear continents from their roots, a thousand eyes that burned like the sun, slavering jaws a million miles across, a monster such as you have never ... never ... ever ..."

"And they made sure they sent you lot off first did they?" inquired Arthur.

"Oh yes," said the Captain, "well everyone said, very nicely I thought, that it was very important for morale to feel that they would be arriving on a planet where they could be sure of a good haircut and where the phones were clean."

"Oh yes," agreed Ford, "I can see that would be very important. And the other ships, er ... they followed on after you did they?"

For a moment the Captain did not answer. He twisted round in his bath and gazed backwards over the huge bulk of the ship towards the bright galactic centre. He squinted into the inconceivable distance.

"Ah. Well it's funny you should say that," he said and allowed himself a slight frown at Ford Prefect, "because curiously enough we haven't heard a peep out of them since we left five years ago ... but they must be behind us somewhere."

He peered off into the distance again.

Ford peered with him and gave a thoughtful frown.

"Unless of course," he said softly, "they were eaten by the goat ..."

"Ah yes ..." said the Captain with a slight hesitancy creeping into his voice, "the goat ..." His eyes passed over the solid shapes of the instruments and computers that lined the bridge. They winked away innocently at him. He stared out at the stars, but none of them said a word. He glanced at his first and second officers, but they seemed lost in their own thoughts for a moment. He glanced at Ford Prefect who raised his eyebrows at him.

"It's a funny thing you know," said the Captain at last, "but now that I actually come to tell the story to someone else ..."
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:26:26 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Airwolf:





Originally Posted By Tekka:




Originally Posted By Phocks:

Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.





 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...






Which is fine but it will take longer for it to go on-line and what do we do in the meantime for manned launches?  buy from the Russians... they're trust worthy right? Was Ares V even supposed to be man-rated? nope



We're putting a LOT of faith in the Russians to take up the slack for us.



Space X better get its ass in gear with Dragon/Falcon 9 looks like were going to need it.

 


We need both.



Or we need a viable domestic private industry equivalent.  



We need more funding.





For the price of all the unconstitutional programs the government is currently engaged in we could have a permanent self-sustaining presence in space(Moon, Mars, Asteroid mining) with the hardware in place to defend this planet from asteroid and comet threats... you know those things that wiped out the Dinosaurs?  Getting off this rock is vital to the survival of our race.





 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:28:24 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Cypher15:


so obama is not only a nobel peace prize winner... hes also a Rocket Surgeon too


Didn't you get the memo, he's the new renaissance man.



Wow, he could fuck up a wet dream...oh wait, he married a wookie.



FBHO



 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:32:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...


Which is fine but it will take longer for it to go on-line and what do we do in the meantime for manned launches?  Was Ares V even supposed to be man-rated?

We're putting a LOT of faith in the Russians to take up the slack for us.

Space X better get its ass in gear with Dragon/Falcon 9 looks like were going to need it.
 

If NASA wanted top develop it quickly they could, but I think there are too many people obsessed with process who love to drag things out.  


Not the case from what I hear-

What's dragging it out is the Obama administrative choke hold on developing Ares at all.  There's a list of political hacks that have no knowledge in aerospace directing and reviewing every step of the Ares rocket since he took office.  Much like the overtake of GM- he's done the same with NASA.  

I have a prediction that I'm betting Maha Rushie makes aswell- Obongo's going to JFK this pig to a manned mission to Mars and try to take all the credit.
Which would be great for the USA to do such a thing, even considering the added debt.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:33:32 PM EDT





Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:





Originally Posted By mnd:




Originally Posted By valheru21:


Y'all ever wonder if the reason no one knows where the Stimulus money went is because we're building something outrageously cool?



The "B" ark, if we're lucky.









I wonder how many people will get that reference.
























 
 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:37:14 PM EDT
Somehow Warren Buffet and George Soros are going to profit from this decision.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:41:32 PM EDT
DIRECT is starting to look better and better....
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:44:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 2:44:39 PM EDT by kitteh]
Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Space X better get its ass in gear with Dragon/Falcon 9 looks like were going to need it.
 


Which was the best option all along.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:46:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...



I wonder which one has more C02 emissions....  
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:46:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kitteh:
Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Space X better get its ass in gear with Dragon/Falcon 9 looks like were going to need it.
 


Which was the best option all along.


Paper rockets.  Yeah, that'll do it.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:46:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 2:48:01 PM EDT by kitteh]
Someone tell me why the Russians are consistently better in cheap manned spaceflight than we are

Yes. these guys:


Preparations for launching the Russian Soyuz TMA-17 spaceship that will carry a new crew to the international space station are under way in an assembly shop at the Russian leased-Baikonur cosmodrome, Kazakhstan, Thursday, Dec. 17, 2009.


A worker cleans the floor during preparations for launching the Russian Soyuz TMA-17 spaceship that will carry a new crew to the international space station, in an assembly shop at the Russian leased Baikonur cosmodrome, Kazakhstan, Thursday, Dec. 17, 2009.

Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:51:32 PM EDT
Because they fly by the hair on their nuts with a high failure rate- where NASA's weakest link on ANYTHING is 5x less than the Russians.

Russia can control costs with cheaper labor, rather than paying the best sub-contractors- and I would imagine they're given a pass from other government agencies.  Where as NASA's subject to everything under the sun- EPA, OSHA, etc.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:55:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


I'm failing to see how sending shit into orbit is a safeguard to the human race.........


You need to do some research then, start with 'Spaceguard', 'NEO' and 'Gamma-ray burst'.  That's just the stuff we've actually observed happening.  There are a lot more theoretical nightmares out there too.  Then there's all the stuff we do to ourselves.  Man-made global warning aside, we have plenty of actual ways to snuff ourselves.  Until the human race as a whole has a BOL somewhere else (or Vaults a la Fallout 3, though I kind of doubt their viability) then we're just playing the odds.  Someday, we're gonna roll snake eyes
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:55:46 PM EDT



Originally Posted By sterinn:


Because they fly by the hair on their nuts with a high failure rate- where NASA's weakest link on ANYTHING is 5x less than the Russians.



Russia can control costs with cheaper labor, rather than paying the best sub-contractors- and I would imagine they're given a pass from other government agencies.  Where as NASA's subject to everything under the sun- EPA, OSHA, etc.


I don't worry much about Russian hardware.  They've been doing this shit on an assembly line for decades now.  They don't do "cutting edge" they do "Model-T because it fucking works".  It's the POLITICS that will end up screwing us if they have the only ride in town to the ISS.





 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:58:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By sterinn:
Because they fly by the hair on their nuts with a high failure rate- where NASA's weakest link on ANYTHING is 5x less than the Russians.

Russia can control costs with cheaper labor, rather than paying the best sub-contractors- and I would imagine they're given a pass from other government agencies.  Where as NASA's subject to everything under the sun- EPA, OSHA, etc.

I don't worry much about Russian hardware.  They've been doing this shit on an assembly line for decades now.  They don't do "cutting edge" they do "Model-T because it fucking works".  It's the POLITICS that will end up screwing us if they have the only ride in town to the ISS.

 


You're probably more right than you or I think, but when space travel is already pushing the limits of what we know to be physically possible- considering other planets, moons, and space, why do that in a Russian hand crank when we can put to work the best minds in the world, which happen to all be in the US, and build a heavy hauling Ferrari?
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:01:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sterinn:
Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By sterinn:
Because they fly by the hair on their nuts with a high failure rate- where NASA's weakest link on ANYTHING is 5x less than the Russians.

Russia can control costs with cheaper labor, rather than paying the best sub-contractors- and I would imagine they're given a pass from other government agencies.  Where as NASA's subject to everything under the sun- EPA, OSHA, etc.

I don't worry much about Russian hardware.  They've been doing this shit on an assembly line for decades now.  They don't do "cutting edge" they do "Model-T because it fucking works".  It's the POLITICS that will end up screwing us if they have the only ride in town to the ISS.

 


You're probably more right than you or I think, but when space travel is already pushing the limits of what we know to be physically possible- considering other planets, moons, and space, why do that in a Russian hand crank when we can put to work the best minds in the world, which happen to all be in the US, and build a heavy hauling Ferrari?


*edit*
And to hell with the international space station- 10 years and bigger and better things will be in the works- moon bases, space battlefield equipment- etc-

If Obama pulls the cork off of NASA, we'll make the rest of the world look like they're still living in caves.

Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:01:56 PM EDT
Why not put some of that welfare money into research and production so we get some highly skilled jobs and at least a POSSIBLE return on our investment instead of more kids without Fathers and Mothers who live large on taxpayer contributions?  Oh, I know, that might cost votes, forgive my insanity.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:04:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


I'm failing to see how sending shit into orbit is a safeguard to the human race.........


Two reasons.  One, we have to prepare planetary defenses against preventable disasters such as asteroid and comet strikes.

Second, we must make progress toward permanant colonization of space (we must spread ourselves out so that local catastrophes do not threaten our species).  This will eventually mean leaving the Solar system, and ultimately leaving this galaxy.  The timespan on this one varies from a few hundred years (colonization and perhaps terraforming of Mars, possibly large space stations in a variety of locations from Jupiter on in) to hundreds of thousands of years (presumably one-way colonization trips to other galaxies).

The longer we remain here, on this one world, the longer we remain vulnerable to extinction by local catastrophe.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:04:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 3:05:04 PM EDT by sterinn]
Phocks, you are a mad man and I've reported you at flag@whitehouse.gov for contribing such a thought.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:05:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 3:06:15 PM EDT by Fletchette]
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


I'm failing to see how sending shit into orbit is a safeguard to the human race.........


Well perhaps not the human race (just yet), but America has definitely benefitted from things like GPS, spy sats, comm sats, etc. You can't argue against that.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:06:14 PM EDT



Originally Posted By sterinn:



Originally Posted By Airwolf:




Originally Posted By sterinn:

Because they fly by the hair on their nuts with a high failure rate- where NASA's weakest link on ANYTHING is 5x less than the Russians.



Russia can control costs with cheaper labor, rather than paying the best sub-contractors- and I would imagine they're given a pass from other government agencies.  Where as NASA's subject to everything under the sun- EPA, OSHA, etc.


I don't worry much about Russian hardware.  They've been doing this shit on an assembly line for decades now.  They don't do "cutting edge" they do "Model-T because it fucking works".  It's the POLITICS that will end up screwing us if they have the only ride in town to the ISS.



 




You're probably more right than you or I think, but when space travel is already pushing the limits of what we know to be physically possible- considering other planets, moons, and space, why do that in a Russian hand crank when we can put to work the best minds in the world, which happen to all be in the US, and build a heavy hauling Ferrari?


Agree 100%.  It will never happen because Congress only thinks to the next election.  Building workhorse spacecraft and support infrastructure requires you to look and plan DECADES ahead.  The military can do it because there's always a threat they can point to and say "if you don't spend the money, we'll get our asses kicked".



Most of us here know there are threats to planatary survival, but dimwitted politicians can't understand what they are.  They can be dismissed as something that *might* happen decades or centuries down the line, long after they're out of power or dead, so they don't give a fuck.



I'm a child of the Space Age (born 1957) and I thought we'd have the moon colonized, manned missions on Mars and at least a manned probe out to Jupiter by now.  Looks like I'll probably die without us even getting back to the moon.  




 
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:06:31 PM EDT




Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:



Originally Posted By Specop_007:



Originally Posted By Phocks:

Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race. Excellent.




I'm failing to see how sending shit into orbit is a safeguard to the human race.........




Two reasons. One, we have to prepare planetary defenses against preventable disasters such as asteroid and comet strikes.



Second, we must make progress toward permanant colonization of space (we must spread ourselves out so that local catastrophes do not threaten our species). This will eventually mean leaving the Solar system, and ultimately leaving this galaxy. The timespan on this one varies from a few hundred years (colonization and perhaps terraforming of Mars, possibly large space stations in a variety of locations from Jupiter on in) to hundreds of thousands of years (presumably one-way colonization trips to other galaxies).



The longer we remain here, on this one world, the longer we remain vulnerable to extinction by local catastrophe.




NASA has no business doing orbital lift. They should be doing the exploration stuff.



All of their orbital lift should be contracted out to private ventures who would have to compete to get the cost down. Also they'll be more efficient.

Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:10:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race. Excellent.


I'm failing to see how sending shit into orbit is a safeguard to the human race.........


Two reasons. One, we have to prepare planetary defenses against preventable disasters such as asteroid and comet strikes.

Second, we must make progress toward permanant colonization of space (we must spread ourselves out so that local catastrophes do not threaten our species). This will eventually mean leaving the Solar system, and ultimately leaving this galaxy. The timespan on this one varies from a few hundred years (colonization and perhaps terraforming of Mars, possibly large space stations in a variety of locations from Jupiter on in) to hundreds of thousands of years (presumably one-way colonization trips to other galaxies).

The longer we remain here, on this one world, the longer we remain vulnerable to extinction by local catastrophe.


NASA has no business doing orbital lift. They should be doing the exploration stuff.

All of their orbital lift should be contracted out to private ventures who would have to compete to get the cost down. Also they'll be more efficient.


+1

I can imagine a larger market base in the coming years if such a thing to occur- spurring space travel, and all kinds of little goodies just by enacting such a thing.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:19:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By Phocks:
Trillions for welfare, can't find a billion to safeguard the future of the human race.  Excellent.


 
He's saying go for the large one on the right...


Which is fine but it will take longer for it to go on-line and what do we do in the meantime for manned launches?  Was Ares V even supposed to be man-rated?
No. Ares V was originally intended to haul cargo, and Ares One haul people. This was done after a study on the Shuttle program concluded that a vehicle hauling both cargo and people was very inefficient, and therefore expensive, since the cargo had to be "man-rated" and the humans fly on a large launcher. This directly drove NASA to specify the Shuttle replacement to have one small launcher for people, and one large lancher for cargo. Obama has messed this up (my surprised face ->)

We're putting a LOT of faith in the Russians to take up the slack for us.
...and the Russians will squeeze every last fast-becoming-worthless-dollar out of NASA for the privilage, then start demanding Rubles. NASA will be spending so much money on Russian flights to maintain schedule that they will have to delay Ares V. Do you see how this works? The Russians do. And they are very good at it. I predict ten years of no-U.S. manned launches and 300% of the present allocated budget for Russian flights to actually go to Russian flights.

Those damned Russian Capitalists


Space X better get its ass in gear with Dragon/Falcon 9 looks like were going to need it.


Such programs (Orbital is developing a commercial program, but it is made with Russian components.) are this nation's only real hope of a sustained manned presense in space. Obama can try to talk like JFK all he wants, but he would much rather direct government money to all of his pals on welfare programs.  
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