Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 7/13/2008 2:19:35 PM EDT
Everyone seems to assume that they'll pay more taxes under Obama's plan, compared to McCain's. But let's take a look at the numbers...

This graph shows proposed changes from todays income tax. Think of it as Obama v. Today and McCain v. Today. If you make between $112,000 and $66,000 or less, you'll pay less under Obama.



If you're wondering where the average US income falls, here's a good graph to give you an idea of how many house holds fall into various ranges:



In before "wealth-redistribution" or changing the topic to something non-tax related.
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 2:43:31 PM EDT
Oh, Joy!

When shithead'obama gets in, my taxes will go up!

I can't wait.
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 3:39:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jm81:
Everyone seems to assume that they'll pay more taxes under Obama's plan, compared to McCain's. But let's take a look at the numbers...

This graph shows proposed changes from todays income tax. Think of it as Obama v. Today and McCain v. Today. If you make between $112,000 and $66,000 or less, you'll pay less under Obama.

i35.tinypic.com/fc6xpf.gif

If you're wondering where the average US income falls, here's a good graph to give you an idea of how many house holds fall into various ranges:

i35.tinypic.com/dw6o2d.gif

In before "wealth-redistribution" or changing the topic to something non-tax related.


I think your figures are pure B.S. Barak Hussien Obama wants to raise capitol gains from 15 to 28 % and triple dividends from 15 to 45 %. This will totally f^%k over both small business people and those of us who bring in a large chunk of our income from investing.

After listening to Barak Hussiem Obama interviewed on Fox Business News, this man is a total retard economicly. About the only thing Barak Hussien Obama can do is read a telepromptor. Maybe he should try out for Katie Curic or Brain Williams job.

Look jm81 just come out and tell everyone your a troll for the Communist party and Barak Hussien Obama.
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 5:25:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2008 5:26:40 PM EDT by jm81]

Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:
I think your figures are pure B.S. Barak Hussien Obama wants to raise capitol gains from 15 to 28 % and triple dividends from 15 to 45 %. This will totally f^%k over both small business people and those of us who bring in a large chunk of our income from investing.

After listening to Barak Hussiem Obama interviewed on Fox Business News, this man is a total retard economicly. About the only thing Barak Hussien Obama can do is read a telepromptor. Maybe he should try out for Katie Curic or Brain Williams job.

Look jm81 just come out and tell everyone your a troll for the Communist party and Barak Hussien Obama.


First off, I'm just presenting the facts. I didn't even say if I thought it was good or bad. If this makes you feel uncomfortable, that's your problem. Don't accuse me of trolling. If you think I am a troll, there's a link to report posts to the mods.

Secondly... yes, this is about regular income taxes. If you really think the number are BS, search news.google.com
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 8:05:00 PM EDT
So the mouthpiece of the propaganda wing of the DNC has come back for a return engagement, very well.

What you have presented should not in any way be confused with anything that resembles fact. These are only the numbers that Obama claims would be in effect until the Bush tax cuts expire, which he is all to anxious to have happen. It does not take into account the pledge that he has taken to hand over exorbitant sums of your tax dollars in the UN's most recent wealth redistribution campaign in the name of "Fighting Global Poverty". Nor does it account for the massive increase that would be unavoidable if he succeeds in ramrodding a socialist health care system down our throat.

Most of the people in the countries that have adopted this type of health care system are paying at least 50% of their income for health care that is nothing less than a disaster. Just imagine putting the same people that have made our Social Security system such a joke, in charge of our health care! But I digress. One must suspend everything resembling common sense to believe that Obama would ever cut anyones taxes. We have been hearing all about his "Middle Income Tax Cut". If that phrase sounds familiar, it should. Those are the words that Clinton used during his campaign, but once elected, predictably cast aside his campaign promise and enacted one of the largest peace time tax increases in American history. Common sense and a reasoned examination of his track record says that he will do absolutely nothing less.

But then again what he says and means today, isnt what he will say and mean tomorrow, so who knows where he will end up on any subject. The DNC messiah has been touted by the press as someone who will rise above all of the past rhetoric and transcend mere politics. One thing that he has made clear, he certainly is about change. What ever his position is, dont worry, it will change! The man is completely without any core to which he will not waver. The only positive thing that can be said of him is that he give a good speech, provided the teleprompter is working. He has a grand total of 143 days of "experience" in the US senate. Geraldine Ferraro was exactly correct when she said that the only reason he is where he is, is because he is black. A white man would have been trampled by the press and they would have anointed Hillary. Now the media and Hollywood are doing everything possible to appoint the next president by completely ignoring their civic duty to unbiased coverage of the candidates.
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 8:53:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jm81:
First off, I'm just presenting the facts.


The real fact is you can't trust a fucking thing Barack Hussien Obama or Juan McAmnesty say. BOTH of them are full of shit. BOTH of them lie. BOTH of them flip flop. BOTH of them will destroy this country. You will be fucked by BOTH of them. The only question is do you want it with lube or not?
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 10:05:16 PM EDT
Well, based on the graph, my taxes will go up under Obama. Another reason not to vote for him, not that I was going to anyway.

It also looks like that graph was put together by Obama supporters anyway, so its already suspect. Not that I trust a graph anyway. I can put together a graph that says the average american will get 7.3% more blowjobs under John McCain and post it on the internet.
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 10:23:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sharkman6:
I can put together a graph that says the average american will get 7.3% more blowjobs under John McCain and post it on the internet.



That alone right there has convinced me to vote for Juan McKain.
Link Posted: 7/13/2008 10:25:03 PM EDT
I'll quote another thread tonight:


This country is beyond repair.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:23:35 AM EDT
Don't forget that Obama wants to re-enstate a tax (28%) on your income you make from the sale of your home. That is going to pretty much be my retirement and will make it so that I cannot retire.
I've owned my home for almost 20 years and it is worth about the same as I payed for it back then in todays inflation adjusted dollars. So Hussein Obama wants to take over a quarter of what I originally paid for the house (in adjusted dollars) when I sell it, sounds like thievery to me!
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 1:07:32 PM EDT
Why is it that whenever anyone posts ANYTHING on Arfcom that might in some way look kindly on Obama, that person is immediately dismissed as being a troll, Communist, ect.?

Americans are funny. We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want government to do this and that for us, but we don’t want to pay for any of it. (I have NEVER gotten a good or realistic answer from supporters of the Iraq war regarding how they intend to pay the $1 trillion+ price tag.) But one fact remains: As a nation, we are SO far in debt, that tax revenue will need to be increased to prevent the country from literally becoming insolvent. Already, about 18% of our GDP is being allocated just to pay interest on our debt. And that figure, which is already unsustainable, is climbing.

So yeah, I don’t like paying taxes anymore than anyone else. But spending by both Democrats and Republicans over the last several decades has made it necessary to raise taxes. Of course, you can’t tell most Americans that their taxes need to be raised. Because if there’s one thing most Americans can’t handle and/or don’t want to hear, it’s an ugly or uncomfortable truth.

Regardless, we now have bills to pay. And we need to raise taxes to pay those bills. And we can whine about it (I’m sure most will, as evidenced in this thread), or we can actually accept the “personal responsibility” most of us claim to have and pay our debts.

The truth sometimes sucks, doesn’t it?
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 1:15:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StephenNW:
Why is it that whenever anyone posts ANYTHING on Arfcom that might in some way look kindly on Obama, that person is immediately dismissed as being a troll, Communist, ect.?

Americans are funny. We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want government to do this and that for us, but we don’t want to pay for any of it. (I have NEVER gotten a good or realistic answer from supporters of the Iraq war regarding how they intend to pay the $1 trillion+ price tag.) But one fact remains: As a nation, we are SO far in debt, that tax revenue will need to be increased to prevent the country from literally becoming insolvent. Already, about 18% of our GDP is being allocated just to pay interest on our debt. And that figure, which is already unsustainable, is climbing.

So yeah, I don’t like paying taxes anymore than anyone else. But spending by both Democrats and Republicans over the last several decades has made it necessary to raise taxes. Of course, you can’t tell most Americans that their taxes need to be raised. Because if there’s one thing most Americans can’t handle and/or don’t want to hear, it’s an ugly or uncomfortable truth.

Regardless, we now have bills to pay. And we need to raise taxes to pay those bills. And we can whine about it (I’m sure most will, as evidenced in this thread), or we can actually accept the “personal responsibility” most of us claim to have and pay our debts.

The truth sometimes sucks, doesn’t it?


And you REALLY think that O'taxa will LOWER .gov spending after he raises the tax rates?



Higher taxes will result in a smashed enconomy, lower standard of living for everyone, and even more unemployment.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 1:45:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bytor94:

Originally Posted By StephenNW:
Why is it that whenever anyone posts ANYTHING on Arfcom that might in some way look kindly on Obama, that person is immediately dismissed as being a troll, Communist, ect.?

Americans are funny. We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want government to do this and that for us, but we don’t want to pay for any of it. (I have NEVER gotten a good or realistic answer from supporters of the Iraq war regarding how they intend to pay the $1 trillion+ price tag.) But one fact remains: As a nation, we are SO far in debt, that tax revenue will need to be increased to prevent the country from literally becoming insolvent. Already, about 18% of our GDP is being allocated just to pay interest on our debt. And that figure, which is already unsustainable, is climbing.

So yeah, I don’t like paying taxes anymore than anyone else. But spending by both Democrats and Republicans over the last several decades has made it necessary to raise taxes. Of course, you can’t tell most Americans that their taxes need to be raised. Because if there’s one thing most Americans can’t handle and/or don’t want to hear, it’s an ugly or uncomfortable truth.

Regardless, we now have bills to pay. And we need to raise taxes to pay those bills. And we can whine about it (I’m sure most will, as evidenced in this thread), or we can actually accept the “personal responsibility” most of us claim to have and pay our debts.

The truth sometimes sucks, doesn’t it?


And you REALLY think that O'taxa will LOWER .gov spending after he raises the tax rates?



Higher taxes will result in a smashed enconomy, lower standard of living for everyone, and even more unemployment.


You can "LOL" all you want, but it doesn't change one inconvenient fact: the same argument (fear mongering, really) you're engaging in now was done with Bill Clinton in 1992. People said that if Clinton was elected and he raised taxes on the wealthiest few percent (which is essentially Obama's plan), the economy would crumble. Of course, those predictions were as wrong as could be. Not only did the economy not crumble, but we actually managed to achieve a budget surplus. Not that I think this will prevent you from advancing your discredited argument in any regard.

And yes, I DO think Democrats are more fiscally responsible than Republicans these days. There might have been a time when that wasn't true, but it sure as hell is today.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:34:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StephenNW:

Originally Posted By bytor94:

Originally Posted By StephenNW:
Why is it that whenever anyone posts ANYTHING on Arfcom that might in some way look kindly on Obama, that person is immediately dismissed as being a troll, Communist, ect.?

Americans are funny. We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want government to do this and that for us, but we don’t want to pay for any of it. (I have NEVER gotten a good or realistic answer from supporters of the Iraq war regarding how they intend to pay the $1 trillion+ price tag.) But one fact remains: As a nation, we are SO far in debt, that tax revenue will need to be increased to prevent the country from literally becoming insolvent. Already, about 18% of our GDP is being allocated just to pay interest on our debt. And that figure, which is already unsustainable, is climbing.

So yeah, I don’t like paying taxes anymore than anyone else. But spending by both Democrats and Republicans over the last several decades has made it necessary to raise taxes. Of course, you can’t tell most Americans that their taxes need to be raised. Because if there’s one thing most Americans can’t handle and/or don’t want to hear, it’s an ugly or uncomfortable truth.

Regardless, we now have bills to pay. And we need to raise taxes to pay those bills. And we can whine about it (I’m sure most will, as evidenced in this thread), or we can actually accept the “personal responsibility” most of us claim to have and pay our debts.

The truth sometimes sucks, doesn’t it?


And you REALLY think that O'taxa will LOWER .gov spending after he raises the tax rates?



Higher taxes will result in a smashed enconomy, lower standard of living for everyone, and even more unemployment.


You can "LOL" all you want, but it doesn't change one inconvenient fact: the same argument (fear mongering, really) you're engaging in now was done with Bill Clinton in 1992. People said that if Clinton was elected and he raised taxes on the wealthiest few percent (which is essentially Obama's plan), the economy would crumble. Of course, those predictions were as wrong as could be. Not only did the economy not crumble, but we actually managed to achieve a budget surplus. Not that I think this will prevent you from advancing your discredited argument in any regard.

And yes, I DO think Democrats are more fiscally responsible than Republicans these days. There might have been a time when that wasn't true, but it sure as hell is today.


The Clinton/Democrat claim of a budget surplus was nothing less than a lie. When they made that idiotic assertion, it did not include expenditures paid out to Social Security. It would really be nice to not have to include that pesky house payment when doing my monthly budget! We cant get away with it, but apparently Dummycrats can.

That said, Republicans have become insanely spend thrift and your your statements about the deficit are correct. However, Obama has already stated his intent to support a wealth redistribution scheme so large, it would make all other government expenditures dwarf in comparison. He has pledged to "Fight Global Poverty". Translated: We are going to take the failed concept of welfare, and apply it on a global scale! Only a Marxist liberal could come up with something so monumentally stupid!

I could absolutely understand the idea of paying higher tax rates (to a point) if I knew that it would genuinely go toward paying down the deficit and retiring the national debt. However, you and I know that will never happen with the likes of the leadership that we have in Washington today.

Maybe the French did get one thing right, Bastille Day!
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 4:25:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jammer1:

Originally Posted By StephenNW:

Originally Posted By bytor94:

Originally Posted By StephenNW:
Why is it that whenever anyone posts ANYTHING on Arfcom that might in some way look kindly on Obama, that person is immediately dismissed as being a troll, Communist, ect.?

Americans are funny. We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want government to do this and that for us, but we don’t want to pay for any of it. (I have NEVER gotten a good or realistic answer from supporters of the Iraq war regarding how they intend to pay the $1 trillion+ price tag.) But one fact remains: As a nation, we are SO far in debt, that tax revenue will need to be increased to prevent the country from literally becoming insolvent. Already, about 18% of our GDP is being allocated just to pay interest on our debt. And that figure, which is already unsustainable, is climbing.

So yeah, I don’t like paying taxes anymore than anyone else. But spending by both Democrats and Republicans over the last several decades has made it necessary to raise taxes. Of course, you can’t tell most Americans that their taxes need to be raised. Because if there’s one thing most Americans can’t handle and/or don’t want to hear, it’s an ugly or uncomfortable truth.

Regardless, we now have bills to pay. And we need to raise taxes to pay those bills. And we can whine about it (I’m sure most will, as evidenced in this thread), or we can actually accept the “personal responsibility” most of us claim to have and pay our debts.

The truth sometimes sucks, doesn’t it?


And you REALLY think that O'taxa will LOWER .gov spending after he raises the tax rates?



Higher taxes will result in a smashed enconomy, lower standard of living for everyone, and even more unemployment.


You can "LOL" all you want, but it doesn't change one inconvenient fact: the same argument (fear mongering, really) you're engaging in now was done with Bill Clinton in 1992. People said that if Clinton was elected and he raised taxes on the wealthiest few percent (which is essentially Obama's plan), the economy would crumble. Of course, those predictions were as wrong as could be. Not only did the economy not crumble, but we actually managed to achieve a budget surplus. Not that I think this will prevent you from advancing your discredited argument in any regard.

And yes, I DO think Democrats are more fiscally responsible than Republicans these days. There might have been a time when that wasn't true, but it sure as hell is today.


The Clinton/Democrat claim of a budget surplus was nothing less than a lie. When they made that idiotic assertion, it did not include expenditures paid out to Social Security. It would really be nice to not have to include that pesky house payment when doing my monthly budget! We cant get away with it, but apparently Dummycrats can.

That said, Republicans have become insanely spend thrift and your your statements about the deficit are correct. However, Obama has already stated his intent to support a wealth redistribution scheme so large, it would make all other government expenditures dwarf in comparison. He has pledged to "Fight Global Poverty". Translated: We are going to take the failed concept of welfare, and apply it on a global scale! Only a Marxist liberal could come up with something so monumentally stupid!

I could absolutely understand the idea of paying higher tax rates (to a point) if I knew that it would genuinely go toward paying down the deficit and retiring the national debt. However, you and I know that will never happen with the likes of the leadership that we have in Washington today.

Maybe the French did get one thing right, Bastille Day!


As for Clinton’s surplus, yes, it existed according to the way the U.S. government accounts for it. If you have a beef with the government’s accounting, so be it. Heck, you’re probably correct to be skeptical of it. I’m often skeptical of it myself. But don’t fault Clinton for playing by the rules that were already well in place when he landed there.

As for your last sentence in your first paragraph above, what do you mean?!? The Bush Administration has been “getting away with it” for the past several years, by not allocating a single penny for the Iraq War into the regular budget. Instead, the hundreds of billions have been accounted for in “emergency spending bills”, which are the governmental equivalent of shady off-balance-sheet transactions. If spending on the Iraq war was included in the budget, it would look far worse than it already does. Which is precisely why the Bush Administration won’t include this money in the budget. Quite frankly, it’s nothing but flat-out dishonest to KNOW you’ll need this money, but not allocate any of it in the regular budget.

Regardless, I don’t buy arguments that Obama will be reckless with the economy. After all, do you know who Wall Street is more heavily backing (by far) this election cycle? I’ll give you a hint: It isn’t McCain. So why would Wall Street back a guy who, according to right-wing folklore, is just a Marxist in hiding who wants to destroy all personal wealth? Fact is, Obama’s economic advisory team is filled with Wall Street players and others who nobody would confuse with being “Marxist”. So I’m not buying it. Especially in comparison to the current Administration, I think the markets will be very receptive to Obama. Although at this point in time, I also think we may have some economic problems that no single man can solve. Although that’s a topic for another post.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:54:08 AM EDT
StephenNW,

You obviously believe that Democrats will be better with the economy because you want to. Apparently you have forgotten the abject misery of a president that was Jimmy Carter (remapant inflation, tax happy, clueless.) Obama's platform much more closely resembles Carters than Clintons's. Also, Clinton was fortunate enough to be in office during the technology/internet boom. The economy flourished despite him, not because of him and the only way that him so called surplus happened was because of a Republican congress that shut down his tax and spend agenda.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 8:12:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StephenNW:

So why would Wall Street back a guy who, according to right-wing folklore, is just a Marxist in hiding who wants to destroy all personal wealth?

The only reason Wall street is backing Obama is becuse they made insanely stupid financial decisions that are come home to bite them in the ass and they know that the big government Dummycrats are more likely to bail their sorry asses out.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:20:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 10:34:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StephenNW:
Why is it that whenever anyone posts ANYTHING on Arfcom that might in some way look kindly on Obama, that person is immediately dismissed as being a troll, Communist, ect.?

Americans are funny. We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want government to do this and that for us, but we don’t want to pay for any of it. (I have NEVER gotten a good or realistic answer from supporters of the Iraq war regarding how they intend to pay the $1 trillion+ price tag.) But one fact remains: As a nation, we are SO far in debt, that tax revenue will need to be increased to prevent the country from literally becoming insolvent. Already, about 18% of our GDP is being allocated just to pay interest on our debt. And that figure, which is already unsustainable, is climbing.

So yeah, I don’t like paying taxes anymore than anyone else. But spending by both Democrats and Republicans over the last several decades has made it necessary to raise taxes. Of course, you can’t tell most Americans that their taxes need to be raised. Because if there’s one thing most Americans can’t handle and/or don’t want to hear, it’s an ugly or uncomfortable truth.

Regardless, we now have bills to pay. And we need to raise taxes to pay those bills. And we can whine about it (I’m sure most will, as evidenced in this thread), or we can actually accept the “personal responsibility” most of us claim to have and pay our debts.

The truth sometimes sucks, doesn’t it?


If we are so far in debt because of the spending habits of congress, shouldn't the spending waste be curtailed, instead of raising taxes which will only perpetuate the spending waste.

They want more taxes so they can spend steal waste more money.

If we could eliminate the spending stealing waste, they could lower taxes and still balance the budget.

Maybe it's just too simple a concept..........

a-bare
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:46:32 PM EDT
75% of taxes are allready being paid by the top 25% of incomes...

The bottom 10% pay only 3% of the taxes...

The LAST thing we need to do, is skew the tax curve FURTHER towards the top, just so Obama's definition of 'middle class' people can get a special tax cut

A 2-income college graduate family (2x 55-60k incomes) is going to easily be outside of that 'bracket'...

Moreso in areas of the US with high costs of living...
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 1:19:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
Originally Posted By StephenNW:

So why would Wall Street back a guy who, according to right-wing folklore, is just a Marxist in hiding who wants to destroy all personal wealth?

The only reason Wall street is backing Obama is becuse they made insanely stupid financial decisions that are come home to bite them in the ass and they know that the big government Dummycrats are more likely to bail their sorry asses out.


Words that bear repeating.

Stephen, consider a little earlier in the campaign trail who a large number of economists (not just the blockheads on Wall Street) supported. Hint: It's not Obama.


-B
Top Top