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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 1/6/2002 5:23:44 AM EST
Okay this is way off topic, but I am real interested in hearing what our LEO and attorney friends think about this case. I have a young friend (21) who has been physically disabled since childhood. He has a rare form of degenerative artheritis and had his hips replaced at 13. Now he is 21 and barely walks with a walker. The artheritis has started to degenerage his spine and he will probably be bound in a wheelchair by age 24-25. He has been prescribed Oxy-contin, Vicoden, etc.. They even put him on synthetic THC (Marinol) for a while. But all of these pharms carry extensive side effects and are extremely costly even with insurance co-pay. He has opted to use marijuna to help him cope with constant debilitating pain so that he can at least work part-time as a contract programmer. Pot is readily available and cheaper than these drugs which don't seem to work as well. Pot does not have the negative side effects on him either. He is just getting started in life and was fortunate that his parents bought him a computer as a kid when he was going through all his medical. He was able to garner a tremendous technical skill set and he has worked for me on and off as a contractor since age 17. The kid is a superstar when it comes to tech and I never cared that he didn't complete high school. Nor does his current employer (my former partner). I also never cared that he used pot as long as it didn't interfere with his work... which it never has. Mikey was paid a visit this past week by 2 LEOs who are actually from the neighboring county. He made the mistake of letting them enter without a warrant. They asked if he had a gun and he said yes. It is legally owned and he has no restriction on possession. They proceeded to tell him that he was named by another informant as a dealer in pot. He has sold some in the past to keep his own costs down, but just to other close friends. He never commercially dealt on the street. This said informant supposedly bought from him. They phoned in the gun and it came back okay. They left it with him. Then they started grilling him about his stash. He was so scared at this point he hobbled over to get out his little bag of maybe 1/4 - 1/2 oz. They offered him an immunity deal to roll over on his source. He was given 24 hours to think about it and they would be back out to talk to him again. They did not place him under arrest. They also called the next day to delay the next appointment for another day. Then it was delayed to this coming week that following day. They left with the pot and let him keep the gun. Now he is real scared and is thinking about taking them up on their deal. I made him an appointment with an attorney friend for Monday and told him that he should not make any deals by himself. He really shouldn't make any deals anyway because that would relegate him to target status for the rest of his life if it got out.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 5:24:30 AM EST
(cont.) The wierd thing about all this is that they did not make an arrest which leads me to believe they do not have sufficient evidence. They also have little to stand on regarding his personal stash since he is in a neighboring county and they are actually out of jurisdiction as county deputy sherrifs. He is in Hamilton county and the officers are from Warren County. He has NEVER been in any kind of trouble at all and this is his first offense. He is a very responsible and mature kid and even with his medical condition earns enough money to provide for his fiancee and little brother who share a very nice townhouse with him. What gives with this? Does this sound like a street level bad LEO hustle to get a free bag from a perpetrator? Why didn't they make an arrest? Does he have a bonafide medical use case if this would ever go before the judge? Should he contact NORML for legal defense?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 5:38:58 AM EST
I'l try to answer about the arrest question. As many have pointed out it is a LEO's job to gather evidence to present in court. They can gather evidence, complete a report, etc without making an arrest. The info gets sent to the prosecutor who makes a charging decision. The defendant can then be "ordered in" to court, for proceedings. LEO's can take some things into account before deciding how to proceed. severity of crime, risk of dangers to others, ties to the community, flight risk, past criminal offnses, or failing to appear in court in the past. They may also consider things like, is the jail equipped to house a person with special medical needs etc. Sometimes as part of an ongoing investigation they may have made a decision that until Mr. X is arrrested no one else is. Police officers [red] MAY [/red] make an arrest when they have probable cause that a crime was committed, and the accused is the one that committed the crime. They don't have to, they can do the "order in", or request a warrant if apropriate. Detectives that I know rarely arrest anyone, they gather evidence, do interviews, and complete reports. Then they let the DA deside where to go from there.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:26:33 AM EST
Too bad he has to go through this.... aapot is excelent for scelital pain, spascticity, nausia etc.. If your friend wasn't dealing, he couldnt have sold it to a cop. Someone he knows has put the screws to him... selling is selling period. I think it's a friggin crime that we waste dollars persuing such trivial shit. I personally know cancer patients that use pot to combat symptoms from there chemo.... I know others that are wasing away that are not.... Good luck to your friend.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 9:21:00 AM EST
OK,he screwed up letting them in. If he truly is disabled and looks bad they won't want to put him in front of a jury. He has definitely been a "dealer" and is hung there. Looks like deal time. And quit SELLING IT! cpermd
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:52:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By cpermd: OK,he screwed up letting them in. If he truly is disabled and looks bad they won't want to put him in front of a jury. He has definitely been a "dealer" and is hung there. Looks like deal time. And quit SELLING IT! cpermd
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I can vouch for the kid that he has tremendous trouble with pain. I can also vouch that he is productive in evey way including when he has smoked some weed. I can also tell that he has less pain or doesn't give a crap when he is on it. It is also visibly obvious that he doesnt get the same relief from pharms. Is there any reasonable defense to this?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:23:55 PM EST
First he is dealing. No excuss. I came understand some one using pot for pain, but when he starts selling of offset costs thats another. Try to explain that to a jury. Tell him to get rid of the guns if there is a possiblity of him being arrested. Tell him don't be a rat. Its his pot, he got caught with it he must deal with it. Third he should quite associating with dopers, no if ands or buts.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:28:19 PM EST
If it comes to that, he should make the deal unless he's willing to do the time or pay the price for his actions. It's not being a rat. It's looking out for his best interests.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:41:47 PM EST
YOu said they left his pot there. If so, why doesn't he just desteoy the Pot and get rid of the guns. If they have "proof" then they will have to show it. If they cannot produce the supposed Pot, then they won't look very good. He is definitely a dumbass for selling it. There was a guy here in FL that gave some Pot to a friend. The Cops busted the friend who then rolled on him. he was busted for distributing. He lost his RKBA. Well, he got rid of his gun. Then, the ATF got news of it and the fact he is a gun owner. Voila, shortly thereafter they kicked in his door and threw flash bangs all over the place. The place was trashed. The ATF found no guns. But, did find a small baggie of Pot. They proudly called it a successfull raid.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:56:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By cc48510: YOu said they left his pot there. If so, why doesn't he just desteoy the Pot and get rid of the guns.
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No they took the weed and left the gun. I agree that he shouldn't be selling, but from what I understand it was only to his brother and a couple of his friends (for recreational use.... stupid). I understand selling is selling but we are talking about childhood friends and sibling in small amounts. Not tractor trailer loads. I don't agree that smoking pot should be classed the same as crack cocaine or heroin. I am starting to study this issue and from what I have found so far, there is not one single conclusive medical study that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that pot is physically addictive or is physically harmful. Furthermore it looks like the whole criminalization of pot from a historical perspective was rooted in financial and immigration issues... not drug issues. Hardly the same demon class of drug as crystal meth or crack. Very fascinating topic actually. I just feel so bad for this kid because he has legitimate pain and suffering and pot really seems to be a solution for him. He is so bright and has such a future in front of him despite the physical disability. I hate to see him classified as a common criminal or street dealer.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 11:33:02 PM EST
It doesn't matter who he sold the dope to, he knew he was committing a felony by doing it. It also doesn't matter what your research says either. It's a crime, he committed it and he either pays for his stupidity or does a deal. It also doesn't matter what you think about drug laws. Only what a jury or the court thinks matters.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:23:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2002 11:44:39 PM EST by david_r]
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 2:56:14 AM EST
Well cooler heads have finally prevailed. He is under representation by a NORML attorney who took his case IMMEDIATELY. She is retired and lives in Florida, but is still licensed to practice in Ohio. She is personal friends with the judge and even called him at home on Monday night to get the whole thing delayed. When the judge found out they were dealing with a visibly crippled person, he didn't even think the DA would want to press it since this gal is now his council. Apparently she has a pretty awesome track record. Bonafide hitter. She is flying into town on Saturday to meet and then they will be doing the whole arrest since he is going to refuse to roll over. Judge already stated he would set bail at $250. Sounds like they are headed down the plea bargin path to get the thing busted down to misdemeanor status for possession. After this whole incident, I find it to be a human tragedy to hear so many people are convicted at the same level of crack or heroin dealer for a PLANT. It is a natural substance, and from my research the past few days, one that shows tremendous promise in many areas. I guess it will take a few more years until the Baby Boomers are retired and the GenXers are all in office before pot is decriminalized, but it looks like this will be the end result. I smoked pot a few times in college and it wasn't that big of deal to me. People hype it up like it is some horrible thing and the truth is.... alcohol is much worse. If you smoke cigarettes and get drunk, that is much worse for your body than pot.
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 8:20:47 AM EST
Corrrect, I have had the chance in College to meet people on all kinds of drugs. Pot is by far the best of them. Most drugs actually make a person nicer and more easy going with the exceptions of Crack, Cocaine, PCP, Crystal Meth, and any other Upper. Downers and soem Hallucinagins actually make people nice and friendly. I have met girls on Pot, Extacy, and Acid. All were friendly and outgoing. The Pot user seemed to be the only one with any real intelligence as the ones doing Acid and Extacy had friend their brains. Marijuana has no side effects, it is not addictave. For those who don't know, the Narcotics Law of 1937 was passed in the image of the National Firearms Act. In 1970 it was overturned by SCOTUS for rewuiring Self-Incrimination. Basically you had to present the Pot to the IRS before you could get a stamp, but having Pot was illegal and nobody was lisenced to have it or sell it. It was replaced with the Controlled Substances Law of 1970. The most ridicuous part is that Marijuana is listed as the sole substance in the most restricted category or the only substance a Pharmacist, etc...can't obtain w/ proper procedures. Even Cocain and Heroin can be obtained with a proper perscription. The reason is simple. 1970 was the ass end of the Hippie Craze. Everybody was using Pot. In addition the law was replacing a previous law intended to ban Pot. In 1937, California, Arizona, and a few other states called for the Feds to ban Pot as it was the drug of choice for Mexicans. Even the Fed. Brass admitted that Pot had no real side effects. But, the demonization began. One incident used was a boy who murdered his mom. A huge deal was made of the effect he was a Pot Head. Not mentioned was that he was sober and mentally unstable when he killed her. BTW, the only people who can legally have, grow Pot are the University of Mississippi. Word is that every pothead in the area gathers around the fence to smell the Pot Field.
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 9:25:28 AM EST
IMO, and I'm no lawyer, is that if this poor kid was did ever get arrested, all he has to do is go to court & no jury would ever convict a guy in a wheelchair with all those medical aliments. Even if he is ever convicted of misdemeanor possession, it will NOT preclude him from owning firearms. Trust me on that one!
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 10:22:56 AM EST
I'm glad he got a lawyer, you can get suggestions here but follow the advice of the lawyer!
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:34:56 PM EST
After this whole incident, I find it to be a human tragedy to hear so many people are convicted at the same level of crack or heroin dealer for a PLANT.
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A plant grown by no less than George Washington!!!
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:54:58 AM EST
Typical damned if you do/don't bullshit! That anyone would deny relief regardless of form to the sick is inhuman, period. So, it's a big deal that he sold it, eh? Well then, what of where he got it? We can't on the one hand say it's ok to use as long as you don't sell while we prosecute the seller at the same time. But, from government, this comes as no surprise. What a great success prohibition is! Hurrah!
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