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Posted: 1/7/2002 4:17:48 PM EDT
Is synthetic motor worth the three times the price compared to standard motor oil? What are advantages and is there any dis-advantage? I change my motor oil in my Mitsubishi and Honda every 3,000-4,000 miles.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 4:46:28 PM EDT
I will personally go with synthetic. You don't have to change the oil often, I go 6,000 mile intervals. You can get Castrol in SAE 5w/50. I believe that most of the wear comes when you start your car in the morning when there is no oil pressure for a few seconds. The 5W starts to circulate real fast. When your engine warms up, it becomes 50. The synthetics can withstand the heat better before it breaks down. Of course the trade off is that they cost 4 times more.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 4:48:48 PM EDT
How can this be OT? It's the GD forom. If you posted it in the Firearms Discussion Forum then it'd be OT. What? Hmmmm? As a matter of fact I DO know nothing about cars. I'll shut up now. Sherm
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 4:56:31 PM EDT
Synthetic Sticks better and holds up to heat better.It is advised that ypu do not put it into a brand new enginr until it is broken in to allow to the rings to seat.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 4:59:29 PM EDT
Synthetic. Longer interval between changes. less wear on engine parts long term. more resistant to heat breakdown. I tend to belive I get better mileage out of the deal but that is just my opinion.Its also better for the seals as it does not break down and acidify like organic oil. I have used synthetic in all my Jeeps and never had an any problems with it even with the longer inteval it comes out of the engine looking clean after 6000 miles not like regular oil. If a new car or rebuilt engine run it on regular oil till the second oil change or the rings might not seat right. OH and Quaker state has like 3 diffrent synthetics out car ,heavy duty,4x4 "blends" they are all the same thing in 3 diffrent bottles with 3 diffrent prices if you read the label you see that they are no diffrent from the other synthetics just some fancy wording to throw off soccer moms at jiffy lube. Go with a good quality synthetic mobil1, castrol, Redline,quakerstate, just read the labels some are straight synthetics some are blends.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 4:59:46 PM EDT
I have used synthetic Mobil 1 in my harley since the first oil change. (99 FLHR) We live in SD where it gets ccccold in the winter.I have used synthetic Valvoline in my wifes vehicle since they started making it. When it is -30 degrees outside the motor turns over like it is July, and the oil pressure comes up NOW. The first vehicle she had syn.oil in was a BRONCO. She had close to a quarter million mile on it when she sold it. With NO oil related failures. I also use syn. oil in the trans of my H-D. It seems to shift better than when using dinosaur juice.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 5:00:18 PM EDT
CLP works just fine.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 5:04:34 PM EDT
Go with full synthetic. My favorite is Mobil 1 0w30. If your car comes with break in oil, change to synthetic at the 1st oil change. If your car doesn't come with break in oil, you can switch to synthetic (mobil 1 at least) any time, as it is compatible with dino oil. Porsche ships their cars from the factory with mobil 1 synthetic, by the way.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:31:34 PM EDT
synthetic oil is a waste of money. Your oil needs to be changed at 3000 mile intervals. Because of all the contamination that gets in there from normal engine operation you need to get it out of the oil. synthetic oil has lots of good propertys but unless you are driving your car like a race car you will never see the benefits. Change your oil often and you will get 150,000 to 200,000 miles with no appreciable wear and will have saved enough money to replace the motor. I have been working on highend cars for over 20 years and have seen no benifits of the synthetics but have seen many problems caused by them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:44:55 PM EDT
Alfajim, you must not live in a location that has any climate change. I Live in a state that can vary from -40 degree's F in winter to 100+ degree's F in summer. A cold vehicle left out in -40F won't even turn over without synthetic oil. It will also stand up to higher temperatures than any conventional dino oil. Most if not all semi-tractors run all synthetic fluids in this day and age. High end car manufacturers also ship their vehicles with synthetic from the factory (Porsche, Mercedes, Audi). If it is so bad, why would truck drivers and these car manufacturers use it?
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:52:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By alfajim: synthetic oil is a waste of money. Your oil needs to be changed at 3000 mile intervals. Because of all the contamination that gets in there from normal engine operation you need to get it out of the oil. synthetic oil has lots of good propertys but unless you are driving your car like a race car you will never see the benefits. Change your oil often and you will get 150,000 to 200,000 miles with no appreciable wear and will have saved enough money to replace the motor. I have been working on highend cars for over 20 years and have seen no benifits of the synthetics but have seen many problems caused by them.
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Interesting take. This goes against all of the media mechs on the radio and in the papers. I am curious...what are the problems you write of? I use man-made in my wife's Infiniti or the blend the dealer puts in and Ford puts Motocraft 5-30 in my Ranger. It's new and I've only changed it once. I'll probably stick with the dino oil for the truck...but the Infiniti gets the best money can buy. The Infiniti book says I can go out to 7,500 miles between changes. I do not. I change it between 4-5k. For what its worth, Porsches, Corvette, and Mercedes Benz plus a few other high end cars are all delivered with Mobile 1. For most of my life, I've just used a quality dino oil and changed it every 3,000. Seems to have worked well for all of my cars. No problems noted so far...but I like the new slick stuff. Hope it's worth the extra $$$. [>:/]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:02:13 PM EDT
Plain old 10/30 Castrol GTX. '89 Toyota Celica ST, currently 201,000 mile. Change oil every 2500-3000 mile. Does not leak oil, oil pan never been off. Only a head gasket @ 65,000. Want to eat off the inside of my engine? Still gets 25-30 mpg on highway, if I don't get carried away.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:03:00 PM EDT
Depends on the type of driving you do. Can you get your oil changes ever 3000 miles or less? Do you rev your engine near red line alot? If you are a regular driver and can get your oil changed frequently then regular oil is fine. Synthetic is a luxury. The luxury of not having to change your oil every 3000 miles or less (even though it's better if you do regardless of the oil you use)
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:06:52 PM EDT
Synthetic. 2x the price, 2.5x the life (easily) I go 3,000 on dino-oil, 7,500 on synthetic. Cheaper, better protection BIG PLUS - oil changes aren't as critical 3,000 + 10% = 300 mile margin 7,500 + 10% = 750 mile margin Makes it much less critical that you change the oil at the right mileage. You can go a few extra weeks if you need to.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:29:58 PM EDT
A lot of high performance engines are designed to use synthetic that is why they come with it from the factory. I've heard alot of diehards spend all that extra money on synthetic and the expensive filters and they usually end up selling their car after 1-3 years. What's the point unless you are going to own the car till it falls apart? Like it's been said, a reliable designed engine will often easily last over 150k with standard oil changes and filters. If you buy a used car that the owner says he "religiously" used synthetic oil...how can it really be proven anyways? Tear it down and look at the shafts, bearings, and pistons inside the engine? It won't prevent engine damage. Does it really add resale value? I've heard problems from use of synthetic but not anything to say that it will always cause problems. The usual stuff like oil leaks, burning oil, spun bearings, etc. from engines not really designed to use it even after breaking it in the rings and seals with dino oil. There's always exceptions like truckers with millions of miles on their expensive rigs and other extremes but for the standard consumer I think it's wasted money that could be saved for something else.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 4:10:02 AM EDT
Try this: http://motoroilbible.com/index.html Changing your oil at 3000 miles is both wasteful and unnecessary. I use Amsoil and the Amsoil filters and change my oil and oil once per year (around 25-30K miles). From the cost standpoint, there is no way to compare synthetics to dino juice if you stick to the 3000-5000 mile oil change and/or cost per quart. Look at changing your oil 10-15K miles using good oil and air filters and then the cost gets pretty competitive real fast. Plus you don't have to deal with all that used motor oil. I don't have any engines that have dino juice in them and I run Amsoil exclusively. 1985 Nissan P/Up: +350K miles with no engine work needed 1992 Nissan Pathfinder: +208K miles with no engine work needed 1998 Ram Pickup: +78K miles with no engine work needed Go to Amsoil.com and see the facts yourself. Merlin
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 3:58:14 PM EDT
Unless you're using a full-bypass filter system, designed to filter out particles as small as 5 microns, you'll still have to change your oil every 3000 miles. Why? Because the contaminants are going to build up just the same, regardless of the oil's makeup. Dirty oil is dirty oil, whether it's petroleum-based or synthetic, and it won't have the lubricating properties your engine needs when it's dirty. Most wear comes from particles 5-7 microns in size, but the "full flow" oil filter in your car is generally a 10 micron filter. How does it trap these wear-causing particles, then? Easy - the additives in the oil cause the particles to agglomerate and form clumps that are big enough to be trapped by the "coarse" filter media. A bypass filter works in conjunction with your full flow oil filter, by constantly "bypassing" a small amount of oil into a much finer filter (<5 microns) and "super-cleaning" it. Unless you use a bypass filter system your oil will [b]not[/b] stay clean enough to allow drain intervals over 3000 miles - or whatever an oil analysis recommends. As far as the benefits of synthetic oils, the only one I think that really matters is that they don't break down at high temps. Better low-temp flow characteristics are helpful in the cold, but synthetic 10W30 is no less viscous (doesn't flow any easier) than petroleum-based 10W30 at the low test temperature (for example, 0*F.) If it flowed easier at the low test temp it wouldn't be 10-weight, after all. It [b]will[/b] have lower viscosity at say, -30*F, though, which means less resistance to the engine cranking. I run dino-juice 15W40 year round in my 6.2L diesel and it doesn't slow my cranking speed noticeably in midwinter - 8-10 seconds of glow time, 2-3 seconds of cranking, max, and it starts right up with the usual cold diesel clatter and smoke due to advanced injection timing when cold. Would synthetic oil make my startups even easier? Maybe, but I doubt it, since the determining factor for me is combustion-related and not cranking speed related. 1800CCA are going to turn an engine over quickly, even if you have 90W in the pan LOL
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 4:18:58 PM EDT
I asked my GM engineer friend the same question. To sum it up, he uses synthetic and I respect his knowlege a lot. I use it in my Z-28. I drive it about 6k per year and change only once per year. SYN is less sensitive to the 3 month interval. My 2001 PU still uses dino due to cost factors. Change it around 3k which is every 60 days. Multiviscosity oil tends to get thinner with use as the long chains break down. Limits safe use to 6-7k. Some brands suffer more than others. SYN does not have the problem. Biggest problem is accumulation of acids as a result of consumption of the additive package. One again, SYN reduces the problem. Interesting note; FORD increases GVW of several trucks when SYN is used in axle!! Goes along with atest I ran on my race car several years ago. SYN in the rear reduced temp 40 degrees F!!!!!! Means it is "slicker". Impressed me! On oil filters - WIX or other "fine filtration" types are counter productive. Here is why: ALL cars (unless modified) have an oil filter bypass valve that responds to pressure drop across the filter. It is there for people who NEVER change their filter AND to allow cold oil to get to the bearings with people who don't wait (correctly) for oil temp before drive off. A fine filter has so much pressure drop, the bypass STAYS open - ALL the time! Fine particles cause little wear anyway so it is not a big deal. Only particles that are LARGER than the film thickness matter much, and then only if of hard material.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 4:22:17 PM EDT
Synthetic. Longer interval between changes. less wear on engine parts long term. more resistant to heat breakdown. I tend to belive I get better mileage out of the deal but that is just my opinion.Its also better for the seals as it does not break down and acidify like organic oil. I have only used synthetic in my Dodge Ram Cummings Diesel and never had any problems with it even with the longer inteval it comes out of the engine looking clean after 6000 miles not like regular oil i use amsoil, its gooood stuff
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 4:41:46 PM EDT
Man, I hear all this crap.... but no scientific data, about engines actually running longer, in a scientific study. Just theory from studies of viscosity, lubricative abilities, and thermal breakdown. I use pennzoil or castrol (habit) and change every 5000 to 7500 miles, somtimes going as high as 8-9000 miles. My first honda had over 230,000 miles on it when I sold it. My second had 170,000 miles on it. Very little oil burn, no problems. Smooth running. Engines are just made better today. How many of you will keep your cars beyond 250,000 miles? If you are one of those guys who does 75,000 miles a year, and wants to keep your car forever, so be it. I dont think there is anything wrong with synthetic oils at all... and I would have to assume from the limited studies I have seen in actual engine mileage tests I have seen years back, that synthetic is better oil. My point is, for about 95% of us, the only thing synthetic oil is going to buy, is piece of mind, and nothing else. If it makes you sleep better, go for it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 5:26:45 PM EDT
Okay. I get this question asked near daily. Diffrences? Synthetics posess a smaller, more homogenous molecular configuration than a mineral based oil. THIS is the major diffrence. Consider the diffrences between just mineral based oils. Aliphatic, and parrafanic based oils perform very diffrently, yet do people consider this when changing oil? NO.. Factors relating to how well an oil suspends particles, neutralizes acids, and resists sludging have more to do with additives formulated by that specefic brand rather than weither it's a mineral, or synthetic base. Detergents are an example, used to help neutralize acids, and reduce sludging (Though good PCV systems did more to contribute to engine longevity) Problems? Well, if your seals are older, or worn, there is a chance that the smaller molecules of a synthetic will seep past the seal. Not enough to cause a major loss, but enough to make a minor mess..(Especially in an axle equipped with wet bearings, and drum brakes..) As to the change interval, this is entirely dependent upon the condition of your engine, NOT the oil you put in it. A near new, or just broken in engine wil generate less oil contaminants than an older, more worn engine. Factors like state of tune, and an effective Positive Crankcase Ventilation system can dramatically affect the lifespan of an engine's oil.. The reason for the 3 month/3000 mile reccomendation has more to do with the oil's ability to neutralize acids,(combustion byproducts) than loss of lubricating properties..This holds true for both synthetic, and mineral based oils,and IS DEPENDENT UPON THE INDIVIDUAL ENGINE. The numbers? The first, indicated true viscosity. This is a measure of FLOW through a specific orifice, at a specefic temprature. The second indicates FILM STRENGTH, and the number is a refrence to a base mineral oil, of that viscosity. A 5W50 has a true viscosity of 5, and a film strength comparable to a straight oil with a viscosity of 50.. The "W" is a holdover from when multi viscosity oils first came out, and stands for "winter".. The truth? Good oil, CHECKED, and changed regularly, COUPLED with regular maintenance will make your engine last longer. Just slamming a couple changes of Mobil-1, Amsoil, Castrol Syntech, or whatever won't do shit for you if you don't maintain the rest of the package.. Meplat-
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 5:43:42 PM EDT
If you're doing a lot of start and stop driving (where engine rarely has a chance to get fully warmed up), you're going to be dumping a lot of raw and partially-burned fuel into your oil. Since synthetics are just as prone to this kind of dilution as ordinary oils, they don't have much advantage in this application. The best strategy is frequent oil changes, with occasional use of an oil flush to help clean out the sludge. If you're regularly driving distances that are long enough to get the motor up to temperature and help boil off any moisture or raw gas in the oil, then synthetics start looking like a better deal. They tend to leak more than conventional oils in high-mileage engines, however.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 6:01:04 PM EDT
Most major car manufacturers recommend changing oil longer than 3k miles these days. It is not unheard of to see intervals of 8 to 10k miles between changes. Changing oil more often won't hurt, but is a waste of money and time. I get a kick out of how many people think they know more about car maintenance than the engineers who designed the car itself. Follow the instructions that came with the car, not what your buddy says.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 2:15:56 AM EDT
meplat, The fine-mesh bypass filters I was referring to are a second, separate, oil filter that's used in addition to your factory standard full-flow filter. They only have a small percentage of the oil flowing through them at any one time, so no pressure increase is seen across your full-flow filter. djk, The factory wants you to buy a new car within the next several years, so why would they tell you to do something that will help it last? They also tell you that you don't need to do a tuneup for 100K miles, and that every 36K-50K miles is plenty often enough to change your auto trans fluid. Have an oil analysis done on your engine oil after a 10K oil drain and see what you've been letting run through your engine for 7K miles.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 3:52:49 AM EDT
I change my Mobil 1 every 4000 in my 99 Vic. My old ranger had 236,000 when I sold it and it burned no oil, and I ran the snot out of that engine! Used Mobil 1 in that too. My fiance's 99 Stratus had Mobil 1 put in at 36,000 a month ago and I feel a seet of the pants increase in performance. I believe it is worth the increase in price. BrenLover
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:01:53 AM EDT
2112- Yeah, I've dealt with em before. (Though I did'nt mention em in my post) Check out an old (pre 46) Chiltons manual. Look at the old Cuno, and Prestolite micronic filters. They even had sintered bronze elements, that rotated against a knifeblade to scrape the junk into a sump for draining.. My opinion on em? If installing it makes you feel better, go for it. I've got over 500,000 on a 81 Toyota 22R's lower end, just using Castrol 20W50, and religiously changing the oil, and filter. (No a 22R is definitely not the pinnacle of automotive design) The "100,000 between tuneups" has a lot to do with the advent of distributorless ignition systems,platinum plugs, and closed loop injection, although a recent GM tech letter retracted this, as at 100,000+ miles, the plugs tended to freeze in their wells.. Meplat-
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:37:03 AM EDT
They both taste the same to me. [:P]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:49:02 AM EDT
The proof is in the pudding boys! I have 273,132 miles on my geo prizm. I can't even remember the last time I changed or even checked my oil.(Maybe I should??) Anyhow, I filled that baby up with casey's or some other POS oil last time. I think that last time I changed oil was around 250,000 ?? Oil don't matter. What matters is, you have to talk to your car and give it some personality. My little baby won't break down on me, cause I talk to her, and she loves me back. And I pat her on the dash when its cold outside and she fires up like a champ. I believe you can give a car some of your "spirit". And they can heal themselves!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 9:18:09 AM EDT
What about the oil that is a synthetic/dino blend? I have been using Valvoline durablend every 3-4,000 miles and seem to be having luck.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 9:36:10 AM EDT
The only problem synthetics have is their incompatibility with some petrol combustion by-products. Mobil bought a lot of aircraft engines because contaminants built up in the oil galleys and starved bearings. This is only a problem if large quantities of the crap are getting into the oil supply. Aircooled 520ci aircraft engines have very loose cylinder tolerances and need a petrol oil. Newer auto engines are tight as ...well, really tight and little if any combustion junk makes it to the oil. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 9:44:14 AM EDT
Even more info on oil: [url]http://www.oilanalysis.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:01:06 AM EDT
1987 Honda Accord Original Block and Heads Slick 50 every 50k or so New timing sets every 55k replace ignition stuff regularly standard oil change EVERY 3k or slightly less Premium oil filters watch the temp gauge 402k miles 'nuff said
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