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Posted: 10/25/2004 2:52:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 2:53:17 PM EST by DrFrige]
Mathematically .38 is LARGER than a .357 right?.... RIGHT.


So WHY does a 38 fit in a .357 yet the reverse does not hold true?

Also, if BOTH the .38 and .357 measure at .357, Where did the .38 come from?


Last but not least, Why was the .38 designated as 'special?"


Come on guys... .who here has the answer? Oh and Jim Scoutten, If you are reading this... DO NOT ANSWER... I got this off YOUR show!

(Except for the "special" question... that one I really want to know)
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:53:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:53:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Gun question....get the fuck out of here with this off topic crap.

<­BR>






Bitch.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:55:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 2:55:50 PM EST by Minuteman419]
This is gonna be better than 9mm vs .45.

Danny
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:57:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
This is gonna be better than 9mm vs .45.

Danny



doubtful.

Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:57:43 PM EST
They both use the same size bullets.

.223 Winchester/ 5.56x45 NATO has an actual bullet diameter of .224...

7.62x51 NATO has the same bullet diameter as 7.5x55 Swiss. Both .30 cal. Reloaders use .308/7.62 bullets to reload the cases.

Not all numbers in the bullet world are absolute.

Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:58:07 PM EST
dum bass
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:58:53 PM EST
Get both.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:59:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
This is gonna be better than 9mm vs .45.

Danny



doubtful.




Wishful Hoping?

Danny
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:05:46 PM EST
Also, it's the same as 9mm.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:05:52 PM EST
It's a marketing thing. This way you buy both. The folks that make them get your money from buying both.



So get both.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:06:42 PM EST
No dumbass said yet, "I like pie?"
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:07:19 PM EST
I've got a great ides. wHY DONT i TAKE A 357SIG blow out the neck & call it a 40sig?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:09:41 PM EST
.357MAGs will fit into a .38 revolver, providing you have a big enough hammer.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:10:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 3:11:03 PM EST by Troy]
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:10:12 PM EST
How about a .41 Special vs. the .41 Mag.

Danny
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:10:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
I've got a great ides. wHY DONT i TAKE A 357SIG blow out the neck & call it a 40sig?



How about way out and make a .45sig ?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:12:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:13:08 PM EST
Just on the off chance that this is a serious question, the answer is:

.38, .38 special and .357 magnum all use the same diameter bullet.

The .357 magnum is a much more powerful round. To prevent people accidentally using these in guns designed for .38 or .38 special the case of the .357 magnum is slightly longer, so it won't physically fit into a gun designed for .38. However, the .38 will hapilly fit into a gun designed for .357 magnum. The slightly shorter case means that you get a build up of pwder residue in the chambers of the gun, which can prevent .357 magnum rounds from fitting correctly if you don't clean it carefully. Apart from that small problem, shooting the much lighter load of a .38 is a welcome relief for plinking.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:15:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
How about a .41 Special vs. the .41 Mag.

Danny



Even less complicated. The standard formula of lengthening the higher-pressure round, to prevent it from being chambered in guns made for the lower-pressure round, was used both for the .41 and .44 Magnum cartridge "upgrades".

-Troy





On your toes tonight, huh Troy.

Hard to joke round here lately.

Danny
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:17:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Also, it's the same as 9mm.



9mm, if you mean 9mm luger, is .355 inch. 9mm Makarov is .364 I think. While both 38 Special and 357 rem mag, both use a bore of .357 aprox.

Like it has already been said, the name on the round doesn't always mean it is the actual size. A 44 mag uses a bullet .429-.430 in diamiter.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:17:37 PM EST
.357 is the measurement taken from the top of rifle lands, .380 is the measurement taken at the bottom of the grooves.

9 MM does not use the same size bullets, they are .355.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:18:28 PM EST
I guess Dick Casull could have named the 454 Casull "45 Magnum."
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:21:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 3:21:31 PM EST by Daytona955i]

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
Just on the off chance that this is a serious question, the answer is:

.38, .38 special and .357 magnum all use the same diameter bullet.

The .357 magnum is a much more powerful round. To prevent people accidentally using these in guns designed for .38 or .38 special the case of the .357 magnum is slightly longer, so it won't physically fit into a gun designed for .38. However, the .38 will hapilly fit into a gun designed for .357 magnum. The slightly shorter case means that you get a build up of pwder residue in the chambers of the gun, which can prevent .357 magnum rounds from fitting correctly if you don't clean it carefully. Apart from that small problem, shooting the much lighter load of a .38 is a welcome relief for plinking.



Just like how the .308 bullet(the 7.65) is the same bullet used in the 7.62 nato, the .308, the 30-06, 30-30 and many other 30 cal rounds. Even though they are not interchangable.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:21:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By SWS:
Get both.



+1


And stuff it in her pooper and post pics.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:22:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:

.38, .38 special and .357 magnum all use the same diameter bullet.




.38 S&W uses a larger diameter bullet and is not compatible with the .38spl / .357 mag but the .38 Colt is.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:22:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By recoiljunky:
I guess Dick Casull could have named the 454 Casull "45 Magnum."



The same thing applies to 454 and 45 Colt, the 454 has a longer case so it cannot be cambered in a 45 Colt. 45 Colt can be used in a 454.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:26:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 3:27:19 PM EST by warlord]

Originally Posted By Troy:
In case all this isn't clear, the .357 Mag and the .38 Spl use identically-sized bullets and bores (.358" bullets for plain lead, .357" for jacketed bullets). The only differences between the cartridges are the longer length and higher pressures of the .357 Mag. That's why you can use .38s in a .357 Mag. Remember that rimmed cartridges headspace on the rim, not on the case mouth, like most auto calibers.
-Troy


This is a bit off-topic, the bullets maybe the same OD, and the case for the 357 is a tad longer, BUT the case for the 357Rem Mag is also heat treated to be stronger to take the higer pressures, whereas the 38Spl case is not. I took a short tour of the Starline Brass Company when they were Santa Fe Springs, Calif(20 miles south of L.A.) before they moved to Sedalia MO.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:29:05 PM EST
If you have an old Colt(colt Army 1894) it is in Colt 38 long colt! While it is made to shoot a 38 long colt it i'll also chamber a .38 special,and even a .357 mag!!

But you wouldn't want to shoot either one in it! The same goes for the .38 special!

So gun makers decided to make the .357 mag case a little longer so that that mistake can not happen!

.357 is the bullet diameter(not .38) shooting a .38 special out of a Colt Trooper four inch barell at 100 yards you wait for the bullet to hit!


With the .357 mag bullet it hits as you fire it! The real difference is just the same as a 40 S&W against a hot 10 mil!~

So if you are not fireing at 100 yards a .38 special+p is maybe bad medicine!


But if you have a .357 Mag then it is all bads medicene!


So bottom line if you have a .357 Mag you have all it needs to be bad medicine!


Not that .38 special won't make you sick,just that .357 is bad medicine!!


A 10 mil is just a mix of .45 acp and .357 bad medicine~!


Bob
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:29:10 PM EST
Ooops, forgot the .357 Max.

Danny
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:33:46 PM EST
Here's a 357 Mag load that will get your attention.
357 MAGNUM
CASE: WINCHESTER
BBL: 10"
PR: WINCHESTER SPM
125 GR. HDY XTP
COL: 1.590"
H110 22.0 1966 FPS 41,400 CUP

From here,
Hodgdon 357 Mag reloading data
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:44:40 PM EST
I know I said the word bad medicine too many times ,but indeed is that not what it is?

Very often a shell to bullet size is just perfect the 45/70.the 22 long riffle,and the .357 mag come to mind!~

And I'll bet all of those three have killed more game(not people) than most other rounds here in the Americas(with exception of the 30/30) which is the Essqisite deer round of past years!

Acadimy Sporting goods had them on sale(150 grn and 180 grn) nine dollars a box!

I bought ten!!!

Bob
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:47:35 PM EST
Yes I keep my .357 mag loaded with 110 grain JHP same Veloc as an M1 Carbine!!!

Only six shots but its not my primary weapon!!

Bob
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:48:21 PM EST
That Troy knows his stuff!
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:49:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:03:15 PM EST
Yeah 357 will fit in a 38. But you have to cut the bullets off shorter. And sometime you still have to hammer on the cylinder to get it closed. he
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:19:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By 2A373:
.357 is the measurement taken from the top of rifle lands, .380 is the measurement taken at the bottom of the grooves.



Reeeeally? So, unlike any other gun, which have differences of around .008", you're saying that .38's have a .023" difference, meaning the rifling is about 3 times deeper? Also, how are .357 bullets even gripped by the .357" lands?

I think you might want to reconsider your theory.

-Troy



I stand corrected. I've read to many gun magazine articles.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:26:13 PM EST
What is happening My replica Colt Navy .36 is actually a .38 since it uses .375 balls!! So, a .38 Special should really be a .36 Special and my .36 Navy should actually be a .38 Navy!! Even with this new nomenclature, the .357 is bigger than the .36 Special although it is the same diameter!

Sounds like a Kerry speech!

wganz

Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:20:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
How about a .41 Special vs. the .41 Mag.

Danny



Even less complicated. The standard formula of lengthening the higher-pressure round, to prevent it from being chambered in guns made for the lower-pressure round, was used both for the .41 and .44 Magnum cartridge "upgrades".

-Troy


Actually (and also assuming this is a serious thread – though I’m still not convinced!) I was under the impression that the .41 Magnum predated the .41 Special.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:46:13 PM EST
The naming of cartridges in the BP era was much simpler. You know 45-70 45 cal, 70 grs of bp by volume, 38-40, 38-55, 44-40 and so on. You know like the 30-30 which has always been a smokeless round and was never made in bp. And of course different manufacturer used different tapers for cartridges so 40-65 Marlin may or may not be identical to a 40-65 Remington which may or may not be identical 40-65 Winchester. And the "38" caliber bp rifle cartridges fire a .375 bullet.

See a piece of cake, unless you want to delve into the Sharps family where you had Sharp's in both straight and bottlenecked cases of the same capacity.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:03:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
The naming of cartridges in the BP era was much simpler. You know 45-70 45 cal, 70 grs of bp by volume, 38-40, 38-55, 44-40 and so on. You know like the 30-30 which has always been a smokeless round and was never made in bp. And of course different manufacturer used different tapers for cartridges so 40-65 Marlin may or may not be identical to a 40-65 Remington which may or may not be identical 40-65 Winchester. And the "38" caliber bp rifle cartridges fire a .375 bullet.

See a piece of cake, unless you want to delve into the Sharps family where you had Sharp's in both straight and bottlenecked cases of the same capacity.



The 38-40 uses a .40 not .38 caliber bullet.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:22:16 PM EST
Now from what I heard on American Shooter today.... thus starting the post was that the CASE was .38 even though the bullet was .357. It is the same thing with the 357 round... Measure the case... you will see.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:38:06 PM EST
What about .38 Special +P ammo? Is it a way to make .38 special closer to .357 Magnum in its "punch"?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:57:02 PM EST
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