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Posted: 10/30/2006 10:47:18 AM EST
I've got some C&R stuff but was always careful to shoot modern non corrosive ammo.

Lately I've gotten some stuff like Mosin 91/30s of which most ammo seems to be corrosive and I've gotten a crapload of vintage 8mm Mauser which I'm sure is corrosive ammo.

I've always been told soap and water and even heard tales of "bathtub" cleanings.

This of course goes against everything I've ever been taught about guns and water not mixing.

If I clean the regular way, using Break Free will that be just as good?

I just can't imagine that Break Free would not get it but soap and water would.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:51:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 10:53:17 AM EST by echo6]



the ammonia breaks down the corrosive salts that promote rusting. after a THOUROGH dousing with Windex, clean as normal and oil thoroughly.

edited to add- as long as it dosnt have a gas system, its pretty easy. In a pinch you can even wizz down the barrel and disolve the corrosive salts.
Ammonia is your friend
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:52:37 AM EST
This was covered earlier today. Old_Painless has an article on it. You need to use either ammonia or soapy water to get rid of the crystals. Cleaning should take place as soon as possible after you're done firing, ideally before you leave the range. Then take it home and give it the regular treatment.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:53:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:53:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 10:56:43 AM EST by gaspain]
whether or not if it is acidic or basic, soap and water will dilute it down to the point of being non-corrosive.

oh yea, if you use boiling water. It will steam off, leaving the metal dry.

I just wouldn't shoot that kind of ammo.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:54:17 AM EST
Fast and dirty - hose firearm with warm water, then douse in WD-40, run a patch down the bore, wipe the outside with a rag, and you're done.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:55:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 10:57:33 AM EST by topknot]
+1 on the Windex with Ammonia. Its the cheapest, quickest, and easiest method.

When you get done and are getting ready to leave the range, spray LIBERALLY down your barrel.

When you get home, clean it like you normally would with CLP or whatever.

ETA: absolutely NO REASON not to shoot corrosive ammo in a bolt gun. If you follow the above directions you will NEVER have a problem. That old surplus ammo shoots great and is cheap, cheap, cheap!
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:57:05 AM EST
It's good to have an air compressor and spray nozzle if you use soapy water. Clean the rifle, blow all the water off, oil it and you're good to go.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:06:29 AM EST
Warm/hot soapy water.

No, really, Windex "works", but nothing's as effective as plain old soapy water and a bore brush. Case in point, some people use their dishwasher (after disabling the drying cycle, that is)...works great for C&R and other handguns. Get a trough of some kind and fill it with hot soapy water for long guns...works fantastic.

Once you clean it, hit it with clean water to get the soap off, then hit it with WD40 to get the water off, clean all the WD40 off, then lube/oil as you normally would.

It's a little more labor-intensive, but it works really well.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:07:07 AM EST
The couple articles I've read recently say that it's the water in the Windex, not the ammonia, that does the trick. O_P references this in his article as well. After all, if ammonia was the magic ingredient then washing with hot soapy water wouldn't work. You just want something that will dissolve and wash out the salts; water does it, lubricant-based products generally don't.

Based on what I've read, when my C&R stuff starts coming in my routine will be a thorough washing of the bolt and bore with Windex at the range, followed by a regular cleaning at home.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:09:12 AM EST
Hot soapy water in the kitchen sink.

Easiest, quickest solution.

From what I undestand, ammonia doesn't do squat to desolve the salts. It is water that does it. Hot, soapy water is a lot cheaper than Windex at any rate.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:09:18 AM EST
Here's an informative thread on what may happen if you DON'T clean it.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=90736
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:09:57 AM EST
+1 for windex thats my usually routine after shooting hose it down at the range then clean when I get home. I've also read that you can shoot several rounds of non corrosive through after the corrosive and it will keep it good enough till you can clean. haven't tried it yet but I will next time I shoot my WASR.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:11:20 AM EST
Read the OP's article.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:20:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 1:52:33 PM EST by 57Strat]
Here is my cleaning procedure for when I shoot corrosive ammo. This is why I avoid corrosive ammo now (cost savings of ammo doesn't outweigh the hassle)

1. Immediately after range session is finished (while still at range): Run several patches soaked in Windex only one way through bore (breech to muzzle if possible). Don't pull patch back through. Scrub bore with solvent and bore brush. Finish with oily patch.
2. Within 30 minutes of getting home, fill bath tub with hot water and pour a bunch of dawn dish-washing detergent in the water.
3. Completely disassemble gun and put all metal parts into bath tub (place rubber anti-slip mat in tub to avoid scratching gun parts). Scrub all parts and bore with hot soapy water.
4. Rinse with as hot of water as possible and remove parts and lay on towel. Let the heated metal parts dry the water off for about 10 minutes. Dry with towel.
5. Take parts outside and apply a liberal dousing of WD-40 into all nooks and crannies of parts.
6. Wipe off WD-40 as best you can, and apply CLP oil to all parts.
7. Grease bore and all loading bearing surfaces w/ lithium bearing grease.
8. Wipe wood stock w/ damp soapy cloth (if power residue comes in contact with wood). Let dry overnight.
9. Assemble gun.
10. Run greased patch through bore every few days for 2 weeks.


If I was shooting a $100 gun I probably wouldn't care that much. But if it's a valuable mint rare firearm, I am not taking any chances.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:25:59 AM EST
Corrosive chem 101.

Corrosive primers use older initiating explosives that will leave various salts in your barrel some of which may acidic. Since these salts are highly hygroscopic they will pull water out of the air, creating in essence very concentrated saltwater which will rapidly rust the fuck out of your beloved firearm.

Cleaning regimens to deal with this need to have something to get rid of said salt. Salts for the most part are highly water soluble, so mainly the boiling hot water method is correct. If you add in some sort detergent it might free up carbon or other fouling allowing the water to remove more salt. The whole windex thing mainly works because windex is mostly water. The small amount of ammonia in it probably helps since its a hydrophillic molecule. Ammonia may also neutralize any acid, as amonia will combine with acids to form amonium salts.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:26:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 11:26:52 AM EST by Old_Painless]
kitwulfen already posted a link to my post on Corrosive Ammo

I have shot thousands of rounds of the stuff. I even shot a bunch of corrosive .303 British this morning.

I've used the method I posted and have never had the first spot of rust.

It's cheap, it's plentiful, and it usually goes Boom. It ain't that hard to clean up either.

What's not to like?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:27:50 AM EST
This thread is full of good advice, but even more full of very, very bad science.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:03:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By mr0w1:
This thread is full of good advice, but even more full of very, very bad science.


ORLY??
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:10:40 PM EST
Just clean with Hoppe's No. 9 Nitro Powder Solvent. Works for me. Skip the Windex mantra. It does not dissolve the salt residue. Water does. The ammonia will start working on copper fouling and that is about it. If you want to get anal about it just pour some hot water down the bore before cleaning. Don't forget to clean the bolt too. After cleaning spray some EEZOX down the bore and onto the face of the bolt and put it away. Always check the next day or so to be sure you missed nothing.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:21:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaweidert:
Just clean with Hoppe's No. 9 Nitro Powder Solvent. Works for me. Skip the Windex mantra. It does not dissolve the salt residue. Water does. The ammonia will start working on copper fouling and that is about it. If you want to get anal about it just pour some hot water down the bore before cleaning. Don't forget to clean the bolt too. After cleaning spray some EEZOX down the bore and onto the face of the bolt and put it away. Always check the next day or so to be sure you missed nothing.


+1 Ever since I found out that Hoppes #9 cleans out the corrosive fouling, it is all I use now for cleaning my C&Rs. It not only cleans the gun of carbon and metal fouling, but it also takes care of the corrosive part. I have yet to have any rust problems.

Also, military CLP also removes corrosive primer residue, so if you have any, you can use that for cleaning.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:30:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaweidert:
Just clean with Hoppe's No. 9 Nitro Powder Solvent. Works for me. Skip the Windex mantra. It does not dissolve the salt residue. Water does. The ammonia will start working on copper fouling and that is about it. If you want to get anal about it just pour some hot water down the bore before cleaning. Don't forget to clean the bolt too. After cleaning spray some EEZOX down the bore and onto the face of the bolt and put it away. Always check the next day or so to be sure you missed nothing.


Of course, by using Windex with ammonia, you could get the salt residue and start working on the copper fouling...
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:41:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 12:43:41 PM EST by California_Kid]
Dry brush while still warm from shooting (so the corrosive residue is in crystalline form), then either WD-40 or Windex in the field.

When you get home, Dawn dishwashing liquid, rinse with hot water, dry thoroughly, and standard cleaning/lubrication with whatever you prefer.

Keep in mind that everything that touches corrosive residue (e.g. fingers) will act as a vector. Watch those fingerprints!


Originally Posted By Harlikwin:
...Salts for the most part are highly water soluble, so mainly the boiling hot water method is correct....


I agree, but dry-brushing while the weapon is still warm will avoid some exposure. The stuff is MUCH easier to remove when it's still warm and dry, than when it has absorbed water and turned into goo.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:42:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By echo6:
homepage.mac.com/stevegarfield/.Pictures/windex.jpg


the ammonia breaks down the corrosive salts that promote rusting. after a THOUROGH dousing with Windex, clean as normal and oil thoroughly.

edited to add- as long as it dosnt have a gas system, its pretty easy. In a pinch you can even wizz down the barrel and disolve the corrosive salts.
Ammonia is your friend


+1 on windex, but another alternitive is products made to clean black powder muzzle loaders. You can get presaturated swabs for the barrel. You just need to remember to clean the receiver/bolt.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:43:06 PM EST
How did the allies win WWII with their M1s turning into rusty pipes before they could get off the beach?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:43:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
I've got some C&R stuff but was always careful to shoot modern non corrosive ammo.

Lately I've gotten some stuff like Mosin 91/30s of which most ammo seems to be corrosive and I've gotten a crapload of vintage 8mm Mauser which I'm sure is corrosive ammo.

I've always been told soap and water and even heard tales of "bathtub" cleanings.

This of course goes against everything I've ever been taught about guns and water not mixing.

If I clean the regular way, using Break Free will that be just as good?

I just can't imagine that Break Free would not get it but soap and water would.


You are correct. Clean as you usually do. Comply with the dictum: do not let the sun set on a dirty gun.

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:54:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 12:55:11 PM EST by Old_Painless]

Originally Posted By CommoMan:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
I've got some C&R stuff but was always careful to shoot modern non corrosive ammo.

Lately I've gotten some stuff like Mosin 91/30s of which most ammo seems to be corrosive and I've gotten a crapload of vintage 8mm Mauser which I'm sure is corrosive ammo.

I've always been told soap and water and even heard tales of "bathtub" cleanings.

This of course goes against everything I've ever been taught about guns and water not mixing.

If I clean the regular way, using Break Free will that be just as good?

I just can't imagine that Break Free would not get it but soap and water would.


You are correct. Clean as you usually do. Comply with the dictum: do not let the sun set on a dirty gun.



Just shows how easy it is to get bad information on this forum.

No oil based cleaner will remove salts. Only one thing will.......water.

Windex is 99% water, that's why it works. The old military cleaners were water-based for this reason.

If you oil a barrel that has been used with corrosive ammo, the oil will only cover the salts. They will still be under the oil, eating away at your barrel.

Wash out the salts. Then dry the water. Then clean and oil.

You will regret any other course of action.

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:56:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By CommoMan:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
I've got some C&R stuff but was always careful to shoot modern non corrosive ammo.

Lately I've gotten some stuff like Mosin 91/30s of which most ammo seems to be corrosive and I've gotten a crapload of vintage 8mm Mauser which I'm sure is corrosive ammo.

I've always been told soap and water and even heard tales of "bathtub" cleanings.

This of course goes against everything I've ever been taught about guns and water not mixing.

If I clean the regular way, using Break Free will that be just as good?

I just can't imagine that Break Free would not get it but soap and water would.


You are correct. Clean as you usually do. Comply with the dictum: do not let the sun set on a dirty gun.



wrong... need to get the salts out, esp in a humid climate like Florida.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 1:42:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By CommoMan:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
I've got some C&R stuff but was always careful to shoot modern non corrosive ammo.

Lately I've gotten some stuff like Mosin 91/30s of which most ammo seems to be corrosive and I've gotten a crapload of vintage 8mm Mauser which I'm sure is corrosive ammo.

I've always been told soap and water and even heard tales of "bathtub" cleanings.

This of course goes against everything I've ever been taught about guns and water not mixing.

If I clean the regular way, using Break Free will that be just as good?

I just can't imagine that Break Free would not get it but soap and water would.


You are correct. Clean as you usually do. Comply with the dictum: do not let the sun set on a dirty gun.



Just shows how easy it is to get bad information on this forum.

No oil based cleaner will remove salts. Only one thing will.......water.

Windex is 99% water, that's why it works. The old military cleaners were water-based for this reason.

If you oil a barrel that has been used with corrosive ammo, the oil will only cover the salts. They will still be under the oil, eating away at your barrel.

Wash out the salts. Then dry the water. Then clean and oil.

You will regret any other course of action.



Thanks again. Now I understand.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:00:31 PM EST
WINDEX DOES NOT NEUTRALIZE THE SALTS. AMMONIA DOES NOT, EITHER.

nothing you have will. the ONLY way to get the corrosive slats out of the weapon is to wash or scrub them out. Windex does this because it's almost entirely water. You may as well just use water. NOTHING in windex does ANY good except the water.

read all of this: www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2006/alittlesalt/index.asp

disagree with me? read the article.

you have been schooled.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:10:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By bradleyc:
WINDEX DOES NOT NEUTRALIZE THE SALTS. AMMONIA DOES NOT, EITHER.

nothing you have will. the ONLY way to get the corrosive slats out of the weapon is to wash or scrub them out. Windex does this because it's almost entirely water. You may as well just use water. NOTHING in windex does ANY good except the water.

read all of this: www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2006/alittlesalt/index.asp

disagree with me? read the article.

you have been schooled.


Who are you arguing with?

We already said that.

Only the water in Windex removes the salts.

However, the cleaning chemicals in Windex help get the "dirt" and fouling out of the barrel. And, if it contains ammonia, it might help with the copper fouling.

But only the water removes the salts.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:23:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By bradleyc

you have been schooled.


I'm going to bet you were the kid that always copied off of others then tried to take credit.
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