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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:22:56 PM EST
OVERPOPULATION. Are we starting to feel the effects of it?

AIDS
SARS
West Nile
Ricin in baby food jars
Growing impatience of people in todays society

Just noticing that we are starting to have "nature's" involvement of 'thinning out the herd'

Think about it for a minute. I have had fishtanks growing up. each fishtank can hold x number of fish respectfully. Add a few to a 'perfect' number and a few die off.

Are we overpopulating?
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:25:20 PM EST
Im going to have to say yes on that.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:28:35 PM EST
Not sure about that, we really dont take up that much space. We like to all pack into small little citys.

Maybe we are destroying mother nature with industry. But if we all used stone axes and camp fires I think we would be still pretty small population size.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:29:54 PM EST
No tin foil necessary. That’s a big fat affirmative!
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:30:35 PM EST
You having a thought is, by itself, enough to make me reach for the tinfoil.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:32:03 PM EST
Yes. Wait until we start fighting over water, then there'll be no doubt.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:37:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 10:39:51 PM EST by schv]
Absolutely, positively without a doubt......YES. We are breeding like rabbits, plus the fact that we have had no major wars to kill off tens of thousands, no plagues, no nothing for 60 or so years!!!!

With increases in medicine, vaccinations and treatment we are losing fewer and fewer.


Have you ever noticed that the more uneducated and poor a family is, the more children they have?

I however have a solution............If elected, I will implement a plan to deal with these problems. AUTOMATIC STERILIZATION. Thats right kids, automatic strerilization for anyone who commits a Felony, anyone convicted of 3 or more crimes of moral turpitude, anyone convicted of 3 or more drug charges, anyone who does not graduate high school, etc. etc. That would solve the problem of criminals breeding criminals.

Just Kidding!!!!!

But on the plus side, if you've ever been to Montana or any of the western states, (save for a few like California,) we have a little room to grow!!!!

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:40:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By schv:

Have you ever noticed that the more uneducated and poor a family is, the more children they have?

I however have a solution............If elected, I will implement a plan to deal with these problems. AUTOMATIC STERILIZATION. Thats right kids, automatic strerilization for anyone who commits a Felony, anyone convicted of 3 or more crimes of moral turpitude, anyone convicted of 3 or more drug charges, anyone who does not graduate high school, etc. etc.

Just Kidding!!!!!





Well having children can be a good source of support by the goverment. Get welfare and other handouts, so you can stay at home.
How about come kind of Sterilization for people on goverment supports with 1 kid so they can not have more goverment dependents.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:43:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:43:19 PM EST
Yup. It is true that the world is over populated, but with the current birth rate still exceeding our death rate, it is only going to get worse.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:45:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 11:03:22 PM EST by yellow5]

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Well having children can be a good source of support by the goverment. Get welfare and other handouts, so you can stay at home.
How about come kind of Sterilization for people on goverment supports with 1 kid so they can not have more goverment dependents.



This was one of David Dukes campaign promises when he ran for governor here. If someone ran for an office based on that, they'd get dragged through the mud about this policy based just on him suggesting it.

Edited to say: regardless of the man, it's a nice idea
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:51:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By schv:
Have you ever noticed that the more uneducated and poor a family is, the more children they have?




No. In my line of service work I work on the built in refrigerators that cost upwards of $5000.00

These families are rich and educated. They have 3+ kids for the 'Nanny' to raise. I also have a friend that makes A LOT of money, both parents are there for the kids yet they have 6 kids.

I know EXACTLY to what you are referring. The welfare moms that have 3,4,5,6 and even more kids. Regardless of income and education, if you have your 2 kids have 2 kids then you have 4 grandkids right? but if your 6 kids have only 3 kids each... you now have 18 grandkids!!!

Is it selfishness?? Is it greed? maybe a combination of both. Or just no long term vision of consequences.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:03:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By schv:
Have you ever noticed that the more uneducated and poor a family is, the more children they have?




No. In my line of service work I work on the built in refrigerators that cost upwards of $5000.00



O/T

At FRys last week I saw a fridge that had a fucking color TV built in the door. WTF? You cant watch it while you are getting stuff out of the fridge, and who spends enough time in the kitchen to watch the fridge TV in the fridge??????

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:05:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By schv:

Have you ever noticed that the more uneducated and poor a family is, the more children they have?

I however have a solution............If elected, I will implement a plan to deal with these problems. AUTOMATIC STERILIZATION. Thats right kids, automatic strerilization for anyone who commits a Felony, anyone convicted of 3 or more crimes of moral turpitude, anyone convicted of 3 or more drug charges, anyone who does not graduate high school, etc. etc. That would solve the problem of criminals breeding criminals.

Just Kidding!!!!!




I'm glad you were joking man, I was wondering how you'd deal with the problem with wrongful conviction if your new set of rules came down!
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:06:37 PM EST
I had a teacher explain to me that overpopulation is just another myth that was started up by the eco nuts just like the myth of global warming, when in actuality the earths temp has only changed a couple of degrees in the last thousand yrs.

He explained that you could take every man, woman, and child on the planet and give them a standard size living space and be able to fit them into the state of Texas and still have room left. Now I've always been a lazy one so I never actually crunched the numbers but I imagine the few 50 lb heads on this site could do it.

I tend to agree with him just by taking a trip across the U.S.. Look at how much unused space there is. I think the real problem is people are not self sufficient and still depend on others for alot of things, even people in rural areas like farmers, so they tend to congragate into areas.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:10:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 11:16:37 PM EST by olyarms]
The lower the IQ the lower the devlopment, South Asia has one of the highest average IQ's around 106 in the world, then I belive UK and USA with around 95-96 and places like africa are around 60 and so on. And you notice the wars and plagues that go on in these places.

They are just too dam stupid to help themselves. Isn't 70 a retard?

Look who makes toilets that wipe your ass and plasma tvs etc and the gizmos, the high IQ asians. and us big brained americans control the world, with the big brain asians and brits.

So the average man in Africa wouldn't really be able to understand or ever figure out this math problem.

-d(a(du/dx))/dx+(d^2(b*(du^2/dx^2)/dx^2))+co*u+c1*(du/dt)+c2*(du^2/dt^2)=f(x,t)

while the asian man would have a higher success rate. This is why africa really has no tech export or other small IQ countries.
India is on the list as well, yess we offshore alot of work to them but only to a very small percent of their pop.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:11:09 PM EST
You are correct sir.. I had a science paper in early high school, and I chose natural selection and adaptation of species to the environment as my topics. The rest of my class thought I was crazy when I summed the entire paper up into how medical techonology has pretty much short circuited human natural selection. Leaving the species as a whole, weaker, due to people with things such as moderately weak immune systems to survive and breed the gene down to the next generation. Antibiotics just futhured this problem, through helping to mutate viruses faster then they would have through natural selection. It leaves the next 100+ years with quite a problem. Diseases will continue to mutate into new diseases or strains that are more and more resistance to medicines. Medical technology HAS to improve drastically for this trend of over population and subversion of natural selection to not impact humanity greatly. At about this point, the teacher stood up and applauded me infront of a class full of people that avoided me for the rest of the year.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:11:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 11:12:40 PM EST by guardian855]

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
OVERPOPULATION. Are we starting to feel the effects of it?

AIDS
SARS
West Nile
Ricin in baby food jars
Growing impatience of people in todays society

Just noticing that we are starting to have "nature's" involvement of 'thinning out the herd'

Think about it for a minute. I have had fishtanks growing up. each fishtank can hold x number of fish respectfully. Add a few to a 'perfect' number and a few die off.

Are we overpopulating?



No, what you are seeing is the benefits of modern health care and our longer life spans. In the old days you didn't have to worry about AIDS, SARS or the West Nile virus, you worried about measles, tuberclosis, polio and smallpox. AIDS and West Nile is a picnic compared to the diseases we used to have to worry about.

Ricin in baby food jars? there have always been crazies around. One woman in Romania (the part that contains Translvania) used to bathe in the blood of virgins, and thousands of people a year were burned at the stake during some parts of European history.

The world is a fucked up place, always has been, always will be.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:19:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:20:55 PM EST
For a long time the worlds average IQ was on a rise, well it seems to have leveled off. Why, because of modern medecine. It used to be that if somebody was stupid enough to try to run across a freeway he (or she) got hit by a car and killed, no more breeding, now with modern medicine they save his life and out he goes to spread his stupid gene.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:22:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By MudBug:
For a long time the worlds average IQ was on a rise, well it seems to have leveled off. Why, because of modern medecine. It used to be that if somebody was stupid enough to try to run across a freeway he (or she) got hit by a car and killed, no more breeding, now with modern medicine they save his life and out he goes to spread his stupid gene.



Lol, in africa you get hit by a car your screwed.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:00:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:04:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Lol, in africa you get hit by a car your screwed.



I let your first post go, I'm gonna call you on this one. Try getting a simple kidney stone removed here and dying a week later froma blood clot.

When its your time to go, its your time to go.

As for your simple.....


So the average man in Africa wouldn't really be able to understand or ever figure out this math problem.

-d(a(du/dx))/dx+(d^2(b*(du^2/dx^2)/dx^2))+co*u+c1*(du/dt)+c2*(du^2/dt^2)=f(x,t)



I doubt many outside of a math based field can figure it out, the difference is in Africa they are smart enough not to give a fuck, while fucktards like you try and use it to label somebody stupid.

So tell me smartman, how would you go about killing a gazelle without a gun?

Intelligence is relative. Wisdom is universal, or not. Ignorance is bliss, you happy mf.

Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:55:48 AM EST



So the average man in Africa wouldn't really be able to understand or ever figure out this math problem.

-d(a(du/dx))/dx+(d^2(b*(du^2/dx^2)/dx^2))+co*u+c1*(du/dt)+c2*(du^2/dt^2)=f(x,t)




The really sad part about this is I pretty much understand it, and I HATE anything math related.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:08:51 AM EST
I agree with you Doc. That's why I've never particularly worried about overpopulation: nature tends to take care of that with the Four Horsemen.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:10:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By SO-COM:
You are correct sir.. I had a science paper in early high school, and I chose natural selection and adaptation of species to the environment as my topics. The rest of my class thought I was crazy when I summed the entire paper up into how medical techonology has pretty much short circuited human natural selection. Leaving the species as a whole, weaker, due to people with things such as moderately weak immune systems to survive and breed the gene down to the next generation. Antibiotics just futhured this problem, through helping to mutate viruses faster then they would have through natural selection. It leaves the next 100+ years with quite a problem. Diseases will continue to mutate into new diseases or strains that are more and more resistance to medicines. Medical technology HAS to improve drastically for this trend of over population and subversion of natural selection to not impact humanity greatly. At about this point, the teacher stood up and applauded me infront of a class full of people that avoided me for the rest of the year.



That would be because you demonstrated the early completetion of your indoctrination! The world is not overpopulated. Not even close. Human technology will continue to improve waste management, food production and medical prowess to eventually conquer the natural decay of the universe. The attitude that the Greens have is that we were better off living in bark huts because nature knows best. Bunk! Nature sucks! Rising above nature is mankind's goal and will be his greatest achievement. You bought the indoctrination hook, line and sinker! Planerench out.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:22:40 AM EST
Yep. Maybe we need to hire some herd thinners.....


KAC
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:26:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 2:27:04 AM EST by FOX-]
Nature is doing its job. If nothing drastic is done, the human race will be no longer. Way too many idiots, way too people in general. It may be a sad thought but it must be done.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:35:46 AM EST
I am actually astonished even though I shouldn't be knowing the state of every human.

CONGRATULATIONS!! To all those who say we should work for depopulation you have categorically filed yourself with the likes of Ted Turner, Prince Phillip, and other demonics:

Ted Turner: TED TUNER in an interview with Audubon magazine 1996 - "A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
apfn.org | 10 June 2004

Prince Phillip: Prince Philip, In His Own Words: We Need To 'Cull' The Surplus Population
Prisonplanet | 10 June 2004

Sir Macfarlane Burnet: World-famous microbiologist Sir Macfarlane Burnet, the Nobel prize winner revered as Australia's greatest medical research scientist, secretly urged the government to develop biological weapons for use against Indonesia and other "overpopulated" countries of South-East Asia.


What crap!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:00:16 AM EST
The next zombie plague will address overpopulation.....



Thank God we'll have the ability to purchase bayonet equipped, high thrust per squeeze bullet hoses!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:51:37 AM EST
Hi all,
We studied this at University, and I think we referred to it as the carrying capacity. The maximum population that can be sustainted with consideration of space, food and water.

Space is a often overlooked variable. The higher the population density, the faster disease can spread and the worse the sanitation problem becomes.

China is a large country, but large portions of it are uninhabitable. This means the places people can live are very densly populated. They are so densly packed that they live much closer to poultry and pigs, which leads to diseases jumping from one species to another.

Some stuff I have read suggests the world could support 15-20 billion population, but I really cant see it. Chine and India already have major overpopulation problems, and the problems are only getting worse.

Tom Clanceys Rainbow Six book has some interesting views on this subject, in a scary fictional way.

Dez
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:00:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 4:04:18 AM EST by jmzd4]
Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I've realized that you are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment. But you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague.



Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:04:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By mdezdez:
Hi all,
We studied this at University, and I think we referred to it as the carrying capacity. The maximum population that can be sustainted with consideration of space, food and water.

Space is a often overlooked variable. The higher the population density, the faster disease can spread and the worse the sanitation problem becomes.

China is a large country, but large portions of it are uninhabitable. This means the places people can live are very densly populated. They are so densly packed that they live much closer to poultry and pigs, which leads to diseases jumping from one species to another.

Some stuff I have read suggests the world could support 15-20 billion population, but I really cant see it. Chine and India already have major overpopulation problems, and the problems are only getting worse.

Tom Clanceys Rainbow Six book has some interesting views on this subject, in a scary fictional way.

Dez




Actually, from the things which I have heard your numbers are low by a factor of 4. Admittedly, with 80 billion souls on the planet we would have to exercise recycling, food control and many other factors with tyrannical zeal. But there appear to be many people who feel that having neighbors means that there are too many people.

Would I, personally, enjoy living in a world with that many people? No. Are we overpopulated? Heck no. Not even close. We haven't even cleared 10 billion yet.

I am not worried, thought, about the over-population types.

I will out breed them!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:17:34 AM EST
Old theory. Look here.

From the website:


What many know, at least those with an elementary knowledge of economics or politics, Malthus is the surname of a man, who, a couple of hundred years back, said that man, sooner or later, universally, will run up against himself; that the population of mankind will eventually outstrip man's ability to supply himself with the necessities of life. The Malthusian doctrine, as stated in "Essay on the Principle of Population," was expressed as follows: "population increases in a geometric ratio, while the means of subsistence increases in an arithmetic ratio."1 Well, that seems plain enough, and perfectly understandable -- if there is too many people and not enough food, then, certainly, there is going to be problems. Malthus developed his theory, at least to this extent: that left alone, no matter all the problems short of world wide catastrophe, humankind will survive, as, nature has a natural way to cut population levels: "crime, disease, war, and vice," being, the necessary checks on population." This proposition, as was made by Malthus in 1798, was to cause quite a public stir, then, and yet today.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:28:02 AM EST
A big negative. This planet can sustain 4 or even 5 times the population we have today.

You have bought into the whole liberal overpopulation thing. If you are unsure of what I am saying, watch Solient Green.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:41:55 AM EST
The problem is not numbers, it's that the gene pool is getting shallow. The best way I have heard to describe it is that there is a finite amount of intelligence in the world, but the population is getting bigger, this explains liberals.

96Ag
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:52:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Q3131A:
A big negative. This planet can sustain 4 or even 5 times the population we have today.

You have bought into the whole liberal overpopulation thing. If you are unsure of what I am saying, watch Solient Green.



It's not how many people can FIT on the planet or even be fed with pure logistics---it's how it affect the human psyche and how much pressure it puts on our resources. But hey, I am not suggesting we put population controls into effect---nature will do that for us.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:44:33 AM EST
Man will thin its own herd long before the planet has to. We are to self destructive by nature to have it any other way.

A 'person' can survive an etreme event, like loss of limb or severe hunger etc. But 'people' cannot.
Similer to what RW said, its the human mind that we have to worry about. 1 person hungery and looking for food is harmless, make that 1000 and panic sets in. That is when the herd starts to thin out. People kill to survive and that has not changed since the begining.

As far as the IQ issues, I have some thoughts on that. I think that over the past 50 years people have made huge leaps in technology and such. The problem is that in doing so, we have changed the things that are important to master. We have bred in a dependency on things that fail, ie: technology. Its only a matter of time before it does in a way that impacts us all. The capicity for the support systems that we depend on is the problem as stated before.

CH
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 9:12:34 PM EST
Oh I am SURE the planet can accomodate more people BUT the problem lies where you cram an ENORMOUS amounts of people into a small pocket of a city. In Orange county California, the developers have plans to expand housing to over 54,000 new homes just from Newport Coast to San Clemente. HOW THE HELL will freeways be able to handle such messes?

Not to sound like chicken little but we are heading for some deep shit... get your boots on.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 9:20:05 PM EST
While the global population is still rising, the RATE of that increase has been dropping for decades. I'm too lazy to look it up, but it's well know when the global population will level off, and at what number of people. Overpopulation is just not a big deal - especially with new genetically modified crops, advances in fish farming, etc. It's one of those relics of 70's science fiction futuristic visions that's persisted because old eco-hippies won't let go of it.


However, I definitely think that in the last 30 years, we've reached sufficient population densities - coupled with fast transportation - that some diseases are going to rip thorugh us like wildfire soon. Maybe a variant of a bird flu, maybe a mutated HIV, maybe something entirely new - who knows?

On the upside, I also jsut think it's a matter of time before medical science comes up with cool breakthoughts that will allow us to laugh at viruses in the future.

I kind of see it as a race - which will come first? The really virulent and infectious disease that will kill a substantial percentage of humans on the planet, or the medical advance that will render that disease impotent? I dunno, but I imagine the answer to that question may come in my lifetime.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 9:40:22 PM EST
There will be another plague at some point. I'd say over the next 10 years.

I'm not talking bubonic here. A bad flu epidemic means 5-10 million *poof*.

- BUCC_Guy
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