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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/25/2005 11:33:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 11:35:51 PM EDT by 22bad]
So, according to these CRIMINALS that are playing the race card through their attorneys...........

If they were white they never would have gotten caught with the pot, coke or heroin
It seems like this article would be more credible if they also had SOME mention of
other victims of racial profiling that did NOT get caught with LARGE amounts of pot, coke or heroin

I wonder if they realize that if they didn't HAVE the pot, coke or heroin they wouldn't get caught

OHIO TURNPIKE DRUG ARRESTS
Minorities targeted, records suggest
Pattern raises concerns about racial profiling

By JACK BAESSLER
BLADE STAFF WRITER
September 25, 2005
toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050925/NEWS03/509250301/-1/NEWS
The Ohio Highway Patrol made lots of headlines and TV news video last year for its arrests of suspected drug couriers as they crossed the Ohio Turnpike in northwest Ohio, particularly in Lucas County.

Millions of dollars worth of cocaine, heroin, and a potent form of marijuana from British Columbia, Canada, were seized.

But a review by The Blade of those cases as well as those for the previous two years found that a disproportionate number of the motorists stopped and arrested in high-profile drug cases were minorities - mostly Hispanics but also some blacks and Asians.

In 2004, for example, just one suspect was white while 26 were Hispanic and six were black. By comparison, a total of 15 whites were arrested over the entire three-year period reviewed.

In one traffic-stop case, an Ohio Highway Patrol trooper was terminated by his supervisors over his decision to fire his gun in pursuit of two black suspects he contended had a gun. The chief of the patrol's administrative investigation unit told The Blade that the trooper engaged in racial profiling in deciding to follow the suspects for six miles before initiating stop procedures.

"Operationally, the story he told and what they were doing seemed suspect from the very beginning," said Staff Lt. Reginald Lumpkins.

A study scrutinizing whether racial profiling has occurred in Ohio Turnpike stops and drug arrests by troopers in northwest Ohio has stalled because of a lack of funding. Research by the firm conducting the study here, Lamberth Consulting of West Chester, Pa., came about because of a 1996 court decision in New Jersey in which a judge concluded that state police had been targeting African-American drivers for traffic stops and arrests along that state's turnpike.

A group of prominent Toledo-area attorneys contributed $10,000 to help hire Lamberth Consulting on behalf of Manuel Razo, 58, of Oak Park, Ill., who was stopped Nov. 11, 2003, on the Ohio Turnpike. Troopers found nearly 80 pounds of cocaine in the vehicle.

Razo believes his vehicle was stopped because he is Hispanic, said his attorney, Richard Roberts.

Razo told his attorney recently that he and his family were unable to raise the additional money needed to complete the study.

On Monday, Razo entered into a plea agreement on one count of trafficking in drugs and was sentenced to five years in prison.

"I didn't know where to look [for other sources of funds to complete the study]," Mr. Roberts said. "It would have taken another $10,000 to $15,000. Nobody wants to get involved."

Stops, arrests drop off
In Ohio just one trooper has been disciplined for racial profiling, an incident that occurred three years ago in the Dayton area, said Lt. Rick Zwayer, a state patrol spokesman.

But the specter of racial profiling on the Ohio Turnpike recently arose in a hearing involving the firing of Trooper Jeffre Dickens, who was dismissed in February.

Lieutenant Lumpkins said he believes a traffic stop in Fulton County a month earlier had the markings of racial profiling. He said he believes former Trooper Dickens stopped the vehicle because the men inside were black.

During the traffic stop on the morning of Jan. 12, 2005, Mr. Dickens fired five shots as the SUV tried to flee troopers. He and another trooper drove after the vehicle and finally pulled it over. The driver and passenger, both African-American men, were charged with possession of 10 pounds of marijuana.

Trooper Dickens told patrol investigators later that he fired the shots, which narrowly missed hitting anyone, because he saw the shadow of a gun in the vehicle. No gun was found with the suspects, however, and the state patrol later concluded that the trooper did not have a justifiable reason for firing his gun.

Lieutenant Lumpkins emphasized that a single traffic stop with indications of racial profiling isn't enough to substantiate disciplinary action. There must be a pattern shown in a series of stops that a trooper disproportionately targeted a higher number of minorities for traffic offenses and arrest. There were no other complaints of racial profiling against Mr. Dickens, Lieutenant Lumpkins said.

But he said he wonders why Mr. Dickens and the young trooper with him in a state patrol car tailed the SUV - which was operating in heavy fog without headlights on - for some six miles before initiating the stop attempt. If their intent that morning was to tell the SUV's black driver, as they had done with an earlier vehicle, that bad weather made driving with headlights necessary, the lieutenant asked, shouldn't the stop have occurred much sooner?

"His whole operation was sloppy and not how we want our troopers to perform," the lieutenant said.

Mr. Dickens, through his attorney, declined to comment pending arbitration over his dismissal and could not be reached for comment after he was discharged.

After the shooting incident, stops and arrests involving large seizures of drugs along the turnpike in northwest Ohio dropped dramatically.

Patrol officials said it has nothing to do with the shooting. Capt. Richard Collins, who oversees 130 troopers in northwest Ohio, said the drug enforcement unit that worked the turnpike now concentrates on a wider area of state highways and expressways but still hits the turnpike about once a week.

"Are we having as much success as in the past? Honestly, not so much right now," Captain Collins said.

Lucas County Prosecutor Julia Bates said she doesn't know why the state patrol has backed off intensive enforcement along the turnpike in northwest Ohio. "I don't know if it had to do with law enforcement strategy or public relations," Mrs. Bates said.

'Mules' take the rap
At the same time that troopers are being accused of profiling, a number of the high-profile cases from the past three years ended with what appear to be light sentences - or even dismissals.

The Blade review found that of more than 100 people arrested on the turnpike in northwest Ohio over the past three years in major drug busts involving large quantities of drugs worth millions of dollars, only 39 remain in jail today.

Lucas County Common Pleas Judge James Bates, who has handled some of the turnpike drug cases, said light sentences often result from the fact that many of the suspects involved who plead or are found guilty do not have extensive criminal records.

"Most of them are mules," Judge Bates said, referring to the drug trade slang for couriers. "Whoever sends these people across the country are picking people who don't have too bad a record. If they get caught, they are not in too bad a position [with regard to sentencing]."

In April, Edgar Gonzalez and Gerardo Lopez of Santa Ana, Calif., were sentenced to a year in prison after their arrest eight months ago for transporting $2.2 million in heroin on the Ohio Turnpike. Up to that point, the heroin seizure was the largest in the history of the state patrol.

The car was pulled over and searched, troopers said, because it lacked a rear license plate. But taped on the right front windshield was a valid temporary vehicle tag from California, according to attorney Don Cameron, who represented Gonzalez.

"The car was in compliance. There was no speeding or improper passing or whatever they make up out there," Mr. Cameron said of the troopers. "It is racial profiling. There is no doubt."

"Yet our world is a practical world," the attorney said. "Edgar took a year in prison" under a plea agreement rather than face the possibility of 11 years if convicted at trial of all the charges against him.

In another case involving a large amount of drugs, a lack of evidence led to dismissal of drug trafficking, drug possession, and possession of criminal tools charges against Erika Sanchez-Lopez, then 23, of Mexico. She was a passenger in a sport utility vehicle that was stopped Sept. 29 on the Ohio Turnpike near Maumee for lack of a license plate light. Troopers found 200 pounds of cocaine inside.

The driver, Ruben Marin-Yescas, 46, of Tucson, Ariz., was charged with the same offenses. He pleaded guilty to trafficking and was sentenced to four years in prison.

Attorney Steven Groth, who represented Ms. Sanchez-Lopez, said the evidence showed her client was an innocent cover for traffickers. "She was with a couple of aunts and a couple of children and traveling to New York for some shopping ahead of her wedding," he said.

John Weglian, an assistant Lucas County prosecutor and chief of the office's special unit division, conceded there was no evidence Ms. Sanchez-Lopez knew about the drugs. In addition, Mrs. Bates said Trooper Dickens, who was dismissed for his conduct in the other turnpike traffic stop, was involved in this case and would not have been a helpful witness.

Police witnesses for the prosecution must be "scrupulously clean," she said. "When they have something in their background, such as they have lied or have been a bad actor, it is very difficult for the prosecution to convince the jury in those cases."

Alfredo Valdovines, of Essex, Md., arrested 1 1/2 years ago, was charged along with another man with trafficking in cocaine after their car was pulled over. But a search of the vehicle that turned up five pounds of the drug had problems - something brought to the attention of the court by Tom Matuszak, an assistant Lucas County prosecutor.

The vehicle belonged to Mr. Valdovines, but the driver, Juan Gonzalez, also of Essex, Md., was the one who gave consent to troopers for the search. In a 1964 decision, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled a vehicle's owner who is present at a traffic stop must be the one to give consent. Gonzalez was sentenced to a year in prison. Charges against Mr. Valdovines were dismissed.

Some stops questioned
Local judges seldom side with defense attorneys in arguments over the manner in which traffic stops have been conducted along the turnpike.

However, a Lucas County judge ruled this year that there was no traffic violation to trigger a turnpike stop of Filemon Loza-Gonzalez on Feb. 20, 2004. Troopers searched his vehicle and charged him with money laundering after a large amount of cash was found in the vehicle.

Judge Ruth Ann Franks concluded that a patrol's video of the traffic stop showed the SUV was several car lengths back from a tractor-trailer and not following too closely as the trooper testified as the basis for the stop. The judge also brushed aside a prosecution argument that the trooper expressed concern the driver might be fleeing just prior to the stop.

"There is not a scintilla of evidence that the defendant was exceeding the speed limit, impaired, or driving erratically," the judge wrote.

Deb Rump, a former assistant U.S. attorney who was one of the lawyers representing Mr. Loza-Gonzalez, said the decision by Judge Franks was a surprise to some local attorneys, who regard her as "a law enforcement judge."

"Any time a judge says a witness or prosecutor lacks credibility, that is about as bad as it gets," Ms. Rump said.

The county prosecutor's office has appealed the judge's ruling to the Ohio 6th Court of Appeals. Oral arguments were heard Sept. 6; no decision has been issued.

Other area judges are raising questions about some traffic stops. Judge William Skow of the 6th District court sided with other judges in upholding a recent conviction of a man found guilty of possession and trafficking in drugs after the defendant was stopped on the Ohio Turnpike because a trooper observed his pickup drifting over the edge line onto the berm three times.

But the judge debunked the trooper's claim on the witness stand that there was a "litany of criminal indicators" to further justify the stop. One by one, Judge Skow ridiculed a list of other factors cited to substantiate the stop - such as the truck having Florida plates while traveling on the turnpike, an interstate highway - as "more an example of prosecutorial hyperbole than anything else."

Judge Skow labeled as absurd the prosecution's point that the driver arrested in the stop was carrying a cell phone. "I may be the last person left in America who doesn't travel with a cell phone," he wrote.

Ends justify means?
In the New Jersey litigation over racial profiling, one argument made in defense of state police was that their suspicions about which motorists were involved in criminal activity were ultimately verified by the discovery of illegal drugs in many of the vehicles stopped and searched.

However, such a stance was untenable, according to a task force report on racial profiling prepared by the New Jersey Attorney General's Office.

Unlawful searches aren't "made good" if police turn up contraband, the authors wrote, citing a well-established principle of law.

The guilt of those arrested becomes irrelevant if the arresting officer inappropriately relied on race, ethnicity, or national origin in initiating the stop or conducting the investigation, researchers stated.

"The fact that the arrest rates for whites was comparatively low does not mean that white motorists are less likely to be transporting drugs, but rather that they were less likely to be suspected of being drug traffickers in the first place and, thus, less likely to be subjected to probing investigative tactics designed to confirm suspicions of criminal activity," the authors wrote.

Jane Randall, a bilingual attorney in Toledo who has represented numerous defendants who speak Spanish and charged with drug trafficking, said selected enforcement poses a peril to everybody.

"If racial profiling in violation of constitutional rights is done to minorities, it is a small step before it ripples to all of us," she said.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 11:41:06 PM EDT
I get racially profiled when I am at work, in a mostly black neighborhood. Been stopped many times just driving normally obeying all speed limits and traffic laws. Never got a ticket, just been questioned briefly and sent on my way by the PD.

I know, without a doubt, they are stopping me for being white in a black neighborhood, where drug-buys are common.

The only difference between me and the minorities is, I'm not crying like a teenage girl about it.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 11:43:35 PM EDT
That, AND you are probably NOT transporting 200lbs of cocaine
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:57:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
That, AND you are probably NOT transporting 200lbs of cocaine



Oh, yeah, and that too.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:18:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 1:35:21 AM EDT by soowah]
Said it before and I'll say it again. I remember when profiling used to be considered good police work. <shrug> I think the Hippies killed this country.

Edit: thanks 22bad
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:18:01 AM EDT
I remember someone did some research about racial profiling
they discovered that after Blacks had been LEOs for a while
THEY were engaging in racial profiling, because of experience

They LEARNED that if they pulled over\searched minorities
they were MORE LIKELY to find criminal action\evidence

You know, I have NEVER had my vehicle searched by the Police
they have taken a look inside and\or asked a couple of questions
Maybe thats because I looked them in the eye and answered their
questions honestly and directly, or maybe its just because I'm White


Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:23:22 AM EDT
My give a shit meter just isnt working today....
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:26:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 2:29:02 AM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By pv74:
My give a shit meter just isnt working today....



It must NOT be.......that article was supposed to fill you with great unease(on your meter)regarding
the nazi-like racist tactics being used to unfairly catch the mules\dealers carrying 200lbs of cocaine
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:42:58 AM EDT
Well, now I know not to haul my stash around on the pike. Oh wait, I'm cool. I'm white.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:14:38 AM EDT
IS it racial profiling to say pull over a hyundai accent with spinners filled with a bunch of Fitty cent wannabe's? I don't care what the color of their skin is, some people are just big red bullseyes.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:37:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 3:38:24 AM EDT by watersniper]
I guess I racially profile on the job. You got me. Dead to rights. I RARELY write a ticket to a black or hispanic.


NOW SHOW ME ALL THOSE BLACK AND HISPANIC LAKE ERIE BOATERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are proportionately few "minority" boaters up here............ hence most of my arrests are white people. Just wait until the Toledo Blah gets ahold of THAT info, they will be screaming from the rooftops! Oh wait a minute, no they won't.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:59:07 AM EDT
OL... if you're hispanic and are driving through Preble County on I-70 near the Ohio/Indiana border, YOU WILL BE STOPPED BY THE OSP.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:24:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 12:24:43 PM EDT by 22bad]

"The fact that the arrest rates for whites was comparatively low does not mean that white motorists are less likely to be transporting drugs, but rather that they were less likely to be suspected of being drug traffickers in the first place and, thus, less likely to be subjected to probing investigative tactics designed to confirm suspicions of criminal activity," the authors wrote.


I don't know.........could it be that they are less likely to be suspected, because they ARE less likely to be transporting drugs?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:31:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:38:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

"The fact that the arrest rates for whites was comparatively low does not mean that white motorists are less likely to be transporting drugs, but rather that they were less likely to be suspected of being drug traffickers in the first place and, thus, less likely to be subjected to probing investigative tactics designed to confirm suspicions of criminal activity," the authors wrote.


I don't know.........could it be that they are less likely to be suspected, because they ARE less likely to be transporting drugs?



Silence knave:

Don't you know that being right about who to search and arrest has nothing to do with it. I mean its not as though these troopers have any sort of experience stopping drug dealers? Its not as though the agency is itself well diversified ethnically. I mean the only real explanation is that they are trying to pick on minorities. That is the only way this could happen, isn't it. It does not matter in the mind of some, that all of the people complaining about this, were comitting felonies, caught and convicted.



Translation: The man is keepin the brothers down?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:49:47 PM EDT
If you want to look like a thug/gangsta, you will be treated as such.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:04:30 PM EDT
I still haven't figured out why cops get slammed for "profiling" when the perps are the ones who define the "profile".
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:23:50 PM EDT
We should be profiling terrorists...not wasting our time with drug busts on the turnpike...
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:52:12 PM EDT
Not so sure about that...........how many people commit crimes on meth?
Here are a couple more "unfair racial profiling" victims, as soon as their attorney consults with them

Washington pair nabbed on I-5 with meth cache
By CHRIS CONRAD
Mail Tribune
September 30, 2005
www.mailtribune.com/archive/2005/0930/local/stories/11local.htm
A routine traffic stop on Interstate 5 led troopers to a six-pound stash of methamphetamine and cash Thursday morning.

At 7:46 a.m., Oregon State Police Senior Trooper Bill Matson stopped a 1995 Ford Explorer heading northbound on the freeway near milepost 39 just north of Medford. He had clocked the Explorer traveling 84 mph in a 65 mph zone, police said in a news release.

The driver, Victorino Santos-Andres, 18, of Lacey, Wash., could not produce identification, prompting Watson to take him into custody.

"Enough probable cause was then established to lead us to search the vehicle," Watson said.

An OSP drug dog named Cookie was dispatched to the scene. Cookie aided troopers in the discovery of six pounds of methamphetamine and around $6,000 in cash hidden in the vehicle’s rear storage compartments, officials said.

OSP drug enforcement officials estimate the value of the drugs to be between $30,000 and $40,000.

Santos-Andres was arrested on charges of manufacturing, possession and delivery of methamphetamine. He was also cited for failing to carry a driver’s license.

He was lodged in Jackson County Jail, where he remained late Thursday in lieu of $68,000 bail.

The passenger, Baltazar J. Vazquez, of Olympia, Wash., was arrested on charges of manufacturing, possession and delivery of methamphetamine. He was lodged in jail, where he remained late Thursday in lieu of $75,000 bail.

Officials from Immigration and Naturalization Services determined that both men are illegal aliens. They told troopers that they were returning to Washington from California, Watson said.

"It’s one of the larger seizures of the year so far," OSP Lt. Gregg Hastings said.

OSP troopers have lately seen an increase of drug trafficking on Interstate 5, particularly in Southern Oregon, Hastings said.

OSP is concerned with the number of daytime drug busts in the last few months. Until recently, most drug finds have been at night, Hastings said.

"This is just more evidence that drugs are being transported around the clock in this state," Hastings said.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:13:10 PM EDT
I cried myself a river over the drug runners getting busted. But I got over it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:46:32 PM EDT

Officials from Immigration and Naturalization Services determined that both men are illegal aliens. They told troopers that they were returning to Washington from California, Watson said.


Just out for drive
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:26:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4get_No1:
I still haven't figured out why cops get slammed for "profiling" when the perps are the ones who define the "profile".



No, they aren't really. It is cops who define the profile according to their own prejudices and such prejudices tend to be self-reinforcing.

According to the US Government's own stats, the percentage of people who use illegal drugs in the various ethnic groups is about the same. Unless you believe that all those white folks get their drugs from black people and hispanics then it stands to reason that the percentage of drug dealers is more or less the same.

In terms of numbers, that means there are about six times as many white drug users and dealers as there are black drug users and dealers. Despite this, blacks account for about half of all the people in prison on drug charges. In some states, such as Wisconsin (IIRC) blacks constitute about two percent of the general population but about 44 percent of the people in prison for drugs. I don't think anyone could make a credible argument that half of the white drug users in Wisconsin get their drugs from some black guy.

But the cops got used to busting black people, so with racial profiling, they would ignore white people even though, statistically speaking, they are just as likely to find drugs on a white person. This becomes a self-reinforcing idea. As they stop black people and bust them then they get the idea that blacks are the major group running drugs. Why? Because they didn't stop white people and therefore, really had no chance to test the stats fairly. Everybody they stop is black/hispanic, so all the people they bust are black or hispanic.

So, bottom line, what racial profiling means is that if you want to haul drugs through these states then get some white guy to do it. He will sail on through because the cops were looking for somebody with a different color skin. In all likelihood, that is what is happening. If you are really worried about getting your shipment through then send some black or hispanic patsy with a pound of cocaine about a mile ahead of the main shipment, being driven by a white guy. That ought to fool the Barney Fifes of the world every time.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 1:08:14 PM EDT
I know a way that the minorities could stop being arrested\charged\imprisoned for
drug dealing\using\transporting at greater rates than "non-minorities"......they could:

STOP DEALING\USING\TRANSPORTING DRUGS
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 1:12:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 1:16:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 1:17:44 PM EDT
Fuck the war on drugs.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 1:20:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Officials from Immigration and Naturalization Services determined that both men are illegal aliens. They told troopers that they were returning to Washington from California, Watson said.


Just out for drive


Its a long drive.
needed a little crank to make the run.
Yeah know, 6 lbs worth.
TWeakers, baby!



Yup, they probably started out with 10lbs
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 1:22:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 1:27:02 PM EDT by 1Andy2]

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By 4get_No1:
I still haven't figured out why cops get slammed for "profiling" when the perps are the ones who define the "profile".



No, they aren't really. It is cops who define the profile according to their own prejudices and such prejudices tend to be self-reinforcing.

According to the US Government's own stats, the percentage of people who use illegal drugs in the various ethnic groups is about the same. Unless you believe that all those white folks get their drugs from black people and hispanics then it stands to reason that the percentage of drug dealers is more or less the same.

In terms of numbers, that means there are about six times as many white drug users and dealers as there are black drug users and dealers. Despite this, blacks account for about half of all the people in prison on drug charges. In some states, such as Wisconsin (IIRC) blacks constitute about two percent of the general population but about 44 percent of the people in prison for drugs. I don't think anyone could make a credible argument that half of the white drug users in Wisconsin get their drugs from some black guy.

But the cops got used to busting black people, so with racial profiling, they would ignore white people even though, statistically speaking, they are just as likely to find drugs on a white person. This becomes a self-reinforcing idea. As they stop black people and bust them then they get the idea that blacks are the major group running drugs. Why? Because they didn't stop white people and therefore, really had no chance to test the stats fairly. Everybody they stop is black/hispanic, so all the people they bust are black or hispanic.

So, bottom line, what racial profiling means is that if you want to haul drugs through these states then get some white guy to do it. He will sail on through because the cops were looking for somebody with a different color skin. In all likelihood, that is what is happening. If you are really worried about getting your shipment through then send some black or hispanic patsy with a pound of cocaine about a mile ahead of the main shipment, being driven by a white guy. That ought to fool the Barney Fifes of the world every time.



Riiiiiight. The majority of junkies busted in almost every area are black, so the obvious answer is that... all the cops must be racist!

btw:

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:35:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I know a way that the minorities could stop being arrested\charged\imprisoned for
drug dealing\using\transporting at greater rates than "non-minorities"......they could:

STOP DEALING\USING\TRANSPORTING DRUGS



And while you are focusing on those, white people will get enough shipments through to keep everyone well supplied.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:36:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By 4get_No1:
I still haven't figured out why cops get slammed for "profiling" when the perps are the ones who define the "profile".



No, they aren't really. It is cops who define the profile according to their own prejudices and such prejudices tend to be self-reinforcing.

According to the US Government's own stats, the percentage of people who use illegal drugs in the various ethnic groups is about the same. Unless you believe that all those white folks get their drugs from black people and hispanics then it stands to reason that the percentage of drug dealers is more or less the same.

In terms of numbers, that means there are about six times as many white drug users and dealers as there are black drug users and dealers. Despite this, blacks account for about half of all the people in prison on drug charges. In some states, such as Wisconsin (IIRC) blacks constitute about two percent of the general population but about 44 percent of the people in prison for drugs. I don't think anyone could make a credible argument that half of the white drug users in Wisconsin get their drugs from some black guy.

But the cops got used to busting black people, so with racial profiling, they would ignore white people even though, statistically speaking, they are just as likely to find drugs on a white person. This becomes a self-reinforcing idea. As they stop black people and bust them then they get the idea that blacks are the major group running drugs. Why? Because they didn't stop white people and therefore, really had no chance to test the stats fairly. Everybody they stop is black/hispanic, so all the people they bust are black or hispanic.

So, bottom line, what racial profiling means is that if you want to haul drugs through these states then get some white guy to do it. He will sail on through because the cops were looking for somebody with a different color skin. In all likelihood, that is what is happening. If you are really worried about getting your shipment through then send some black or hispanic patsy with a pound of cocaine about a mile ahead of the main shipment, being driven by a white guy. That ought to fool the Barney Fifes of the world every time.



Riiiiiight. The majority of junkies busted in almost every area are black, so the obvious answer is that... all the cops must be racist!

btw:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/1andy2/whitenesssickitates.jpg



You don't have to think it is racist to figure out that any drug shipment driven by a white guy will probably get through.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:53:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I know a way that the minorities could stop being arrested\charged\imprisoned for
drug dealing\using\transporting at greater rates than "non-minorities"......they could:

STOP DEALING\USING\TRANSPORTING DRUGS



And while you are focusing on those, white people will get enough shipments through to keep everyone well supplied.



I think you missed my point, if the minority arrest rates are too high, the minorities just
have to stop dealing\using\transporting drugs and they will no longer be arrested on drug charges

BTW there are plenty of white people in prison on drug related charges
you seem to be stating that LEOs are unconcerned\incapable of arresting whites for drugs
maybe we can get some of our resident LEOs to comment on the viability of that belief
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:01:45 PM EDT

Unlawful searches aren't "made good" if police turn up contraband, the authors wrote, citing a well-established principle of law.


Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:18:30 PM EDT
I got called a racist white college boy by a guy I arrested last night. He was white, go figure.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:18:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I know a way that the minorities could stop being arrested\charged\imprisoned for
drug dealing\using\transporting at greater rates than "non-minorities"......they could:

STOP DEALING\USING\TRANSPORTING DRUGS



And while you are focusing on those, white people will get enough shipments through to keep everyone well supplied.



Yep, its' Bush's fault.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:45:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

I think you missed my point, if the minority arrest rates are too high, the minorities just
have to stop dealing\using\transporting drugs and they will no longer be arrested on drug charges



I think you missed my point. If the racial profiling is, in fact, wrong, then the whole system fails.


BTW there are plenty of white people in prison on drug related charges
you seem to be stating that LEOs are unconcerned\incapable of arresting whites for drugs
maybe we can get some of our resident LEOs to comment on the viability of that belief



When you get states like Wisconsin, and other states, where blacks account for 44 percent of those in prison for drugs, but only two percent of the general population -- and rates of drug use are about the same in blacks versus others, then something is obviously wrong, whether an individual cop did it or not. At the very least, that would indicate a massive failure to do much drug law enforcement in the white community.

I didn't say LEOs were capable or incapable of anything. I say the numbers alone would indicate that racial profiling is a big mistake -- if only because it misses the largest part of the drug market.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:01:23 PM EDT
I think the Cops are like people in any other industry, they go for the easy money
If they find minority criminals much easier than white criminals because of their behavior
they are likely to use that information to allocate resources to make the easier busts
and, of course, that would lead to more attention, which would lead to more busts
Is it possible that the minority criminals are just easier to catch for some reason?

I think that many "actions" are mistaken for racism, and THAT mental "condition\attitude"
is not as responsible for as many facets of our society as it has been given credit for

I find it really difficult to believe that LEOs give whites
preferential treatment when it comes to dealing drugs
or committing violent crime like raping, robbing or killing
I could be wrong.........I wish some LEOs would comment

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:27:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LPDtactical:
I got called a racist white college boy by a guy I arrested last night. He was white, go figure.



Thats too funny

We had a similar black guy at our company for about seven years
he was a professional race button pusher, laziest guy that ever worked there

he got a job with an all black company, a good friend of mine was his supervisor
one day we were talking and my friend told me that the professional race button pusher
had been unable perform his job duties satisfactorily, so he was threatening to sue them for discrimination
(they had a hard time explaining to him that "the man" wasn't keeping him down, HE was the problem)
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:12:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

I think you missed my point, if the minority arrest rates are too high, the minorities just
have to stop dealing\using\transporting drugs and they will no longer be arrested on drug charges



I think you missed my point. If the racial profiling is, in fact, wrong, then the whole system fails.


BTW there are plenty of white people in prison on drug related charges
you seem to be stating that LEOs are unconcerned\incapable of arresting whites for drugs
maybe we can get some of our resident LEOs to comment on the viability of that belief



When you get states like Wisconsin, and other states, where blacks account for 44 percent of those in prison for drugs, but only two percent of the general population -- and rates of drug use are about the same in blacks versus others, then something is obviously wrong, whether an individual cop did it or not. At the very least, that would indicate a massive failure to do much drug law enforcement in the white community.

I didn't say LEOs were capable or incapable of anything. I say the numbers alone would indicate that racial profiling is a big mistake -- if only because it misses the largest part of the drug market.



We are definitely NOT on the same page, but you HAVE made some good points IMO
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:42:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

I think you missed my point, if the minority arrest rates are too high, the minorities just
have to stop dealing\using\transporting drugs and they will no longer be arrested on drug charges



I think you missed my point. If the racial profiling is, in fact, wrong, then the whole system fails.


BTW there are plenty of white people in prison on drug related charges
you seem to be stating that LEOs are unconcerned\incapable of arresting whites for drugs
maybe we can get some of our resident LEOs to comment on the viability of that belief



When you get states like Wisconsin, and other states, where blacks account for 44 percent of those in prison for drugs, but only two percent of the general population -- and rates of drug use are about the same in blacks versus others, then something is obviously wrong, whether an individual cop did it or not. At the very least, that would indicate a massive failure to do much drug law enforcement in the white community.

I didn't say LEOs were capable or incapable of anything. I say the numbers alone would indicate that racial profiling is a big mistake -- if only because it misses the largest part of the drug market.



We are definitely NOT on the same page, but you HAVE made some good points IMO



The problem really comes down to the drug war. The drug laws were originally passed to punish minorities and if you think about the way they operate, there are systemic reasons why minorities would get busted more often than whites just in the natural course of business, whether individual cops were intending to be discriminatory or not.

And before we leave the subject entirely, let me say that I know for a fact that at least some cops are highly bigoted. I attended a party with a member of the LAPD some years back who got slightly drunk and started telling about what fun it was to be on night shift and harass the "niggers" and the "fags". (His words) The way he talked about it, it was clear to me that he wasn't the only one who thought that way and I surmised that his supervisor must have known about it, too.

But, with that individual issue aside, it seems pretty clear that if we ended the drug war then most of the complaints about racial profiling would end, too. Nearly all the complaints come from that one area of the law.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:45:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4get_No1:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I know a way that the minorities could stop being arrested\charged\imprisoned for
drug dealing\using\transporting at greater rates than "non-minorities"......they could:

STOP DEALING\USING\TRANSPORTING DRUGS



And while you are focusing on those, white people will get enough shipments through to keep everyone well supplied.



Yep, its' Bush's fault.



Are you having trouble with reality again? Nobody said this but you.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:04:01 AM EDT
Hmmm, are all LEO's white??

Who do black/hispanic/asian LEO's arrest?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:56:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 7:56:47 AM EDT by SoCalJBT]

Originally Posted By s1rGr1nG0:
Hmmm, are all LEO's white??

Who do black/hispanic/asian LEO's arrest?



They arrest anyone they want to. You know very well that only white cops are racists.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:11:02 AM EDT
Its just sickening when they take something and twist it around. Whatever system they have been using to catch criminals has obviously been working. They twist is, give it a name like "racial profiling" and try to make the cops look bad. Fucking Lawyers.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:17:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CajunMojo:
Its just sickening when they take something and twist it around. Whatever system they have been using to catch criminals has obviously been working. They twist is, give it a name like "racial profiling" and try to make the cops look bad. Fucking Lawyers.



The stats in Wisconsin (as just one example) show that something is out of whack. What would you call it?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:21:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By CajunMojo:
Its just sickening when they take something and twist it around. Whatever system they have been using to catch criminals has obviously been working. They twist is, give it a name like "racial profiling" and try to make the cops look bad. Fucking Lawyers.



The stats in Wisconsin (as just one example) show that something is out of whack. What would you call it?



Looking at the arrests made, I'd call it a system that worked. You think its a possibility that those people are in prison because they are criminals? What a concept.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:49:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CajunMojo:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By CajunMojo:
Its just sickening when they take something and twist it around. Whatever system they have been using to catch criminals has obviously been working. They twist is, give it a name like "racial profiling" and try to make the cops look bad. Fucking Lawyers.



The stats in Wisconsin (as just one example) show that something is out of whack. What would you call it?



Looking at the arrests made, I'd call it a system that worked. You think its a possibility that those people are in prison because they are criminals? What a concept.



It didn't work very well if it missed 98 percent of the drug market.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:19:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
We are definitely NOT on the same page, but you HAVE made some good points IMO



The problem really comes down to the drug war. The drug laws were originally passed to punish minorities and if you think about the way they operate, there are systemic reasons why minorities would get busted more often than whites just in the natural course of business, whether individual cops were intending to be discriminatory or not.



Do what?
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