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Link Posted: 7/30/2022 12:26:17 PM EST
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wolfy42:
Buy a real HK.  Many of the clone are either cosmetically deficient or mechanically not competent.

The POF guns especially have issues.
View Quote


@Wolfy42

Generally, normal people don’t make unusually controversial statements without some basis in experience.

Would you return to the thread and defend it? I know of no one who agrees with you, especially re: the MKE guns.
brownells
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 12:39:27 PM EST
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gerkyn:


I am in the same boat while looking at the differences. Seems to be primarily you get a muzzle device, sling, rail, extra mag, cleaning kit and a case?
View Quote
The "standard" SKUs that qualify for the rebate come with all the extras; the flash hider, extra mag, optic rail mount, cleaning kit and sling.

The "core" SKUs don't qualify for the rebate and is just the basic gun and one mag.

Both types come with the same hard case, and both also have options to buy with a brace if wanted.

IMO, most of the stuff in the "standard" set is junk.  The cleaning kit and sling are junky, and the rail mount is one of the cheapest ones out there.  The flash hider is ok if you want it, but it's not needed and otherwise you're getting the extra mag.

IMO, even accounting for the rebate on the standard SKUs, the "core" models are the better buy for most.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 1:20:26 PM EST
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cancard:


@unknownpatriot

Atlantic Firearms has the best deals by far.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cancard:
Originally Posted By UnknownPatriot:
Where’s the best deal on one? I have a friend who is looking to buy. Thanks!


@unknownpatriot

Atlantic Firearms has the best deals by far.


Atlantic isn’t the cheapest.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 2:11:38 PM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PhiPhiSix:
I have a PTR 9CT and love it. The ETS mags even work fine, though I bought more metal mags. I'm kicking around buying the 5" now.
View Quote


Long or short?  That is the question.

Looks like the length of the barrel is so little different that it wouldn’t make much difference. The bigger front hand guard on the full size would be nice. If running a can be slightly shorter K might be better though.

Other than “get both” which one did you buy and why?
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 2:54:54 PM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dino1:
Nobody ever yelled Yippie-Ki-Yay Mother Fucker while yielding a CZ Scorpion or Keltec sub 2000.


View Quote

Link Posted: 7/30/2022 2:56:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: jmt1271] [#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:


Long or short?  That is the question.

Looks like the length of the barrel is so little different that it wouldn’t make much difference. The bigger front hand guard on the full size would be nice. If running a can be slightly shorter K might be better though.

Other than “get both” which one did you buy and why?
View Quote

I bought the P model and it will be suppressed all the time.

I got a Magpul forend and installed a Protac light on an Arisaka mount. Was going to do an optic but I'm not sure, kinda did the factory irons.

All that said, I kind of want the full size as well.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 3:18:26 PM EST
[#7]
If you only buy 1, 100% the fullsize.

This coming from a guy with both.  You should buy both.  Im thinking I might need a 3rd!
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 3:21:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: UnknownPatriot] [#8]
Buy the full size if you’re gonna add a silencer. Also you could buy one and have it converted into an SD. I bought one of the original imported by ATI. Ralph at RDTS made it into an SD for me.

It’s epic.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 3:29:45 PM EST
[#9]
Best mag source?  Errybody seems to be out of stock
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 3:30:49 PM EST
[#10]
I sold the full size one I had but I am thinking of getting a K……. I like the smaller
One better
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 3:50:37 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:
Best mag source?  Errybody seems to be out of stock
View Quote

https://atlanticfirearms.com/mp5-magazine-mke-2-pack-MA287
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 3:54:17 PM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Thank you. When I googled this is the one that popped up

https://atlanticfirearms.com/mke-9mm-30-round-magazine-2-pack
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 4:18:37 PM EST
[#13]
I would not recommend those mags, though I’ve never seen a review on them.

Buy steel mags from HK>MKE>KCI=New Zenith>AC Unity>ETS……the new Overwatch plastic mags are only about $22 but they are an unknown quantity so far….

I’ve seen a bunch of posts with issues that can magically disappear once a HK/MKE mag is used….

(I have a PTR 9CT and 9KT, and just bought an AP5-P thst was perfect through 500 rounds yesterday).

Link Posted: 7/30/2022 4:19:31 PM EST
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By azscooby:
I would not recommend those mags, though I’ve never seen a review on them.

Buy steel mags from HK>MKE>KCI=New Zenith>AC Unity>ETS……the new Overwatch plastic mags are only about $22 but they are an unknown quantity so far….

I’ve seen a bunch of posts with issues that can magically disappear once a HK/MKE mag is used….

(I have a PTR 9CT and 9KT, and just bought an AP5-P thst was perfect through 500 rounds yesterday).

View Quote


The ones linked say they are MKE
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 4:28:18 PM EST
[#15]
Do yourself a favor and just skip the POF/MKE/everything else mags and stick with HK. Those are the only ones that run 100% reliably IME, and they aren’t that much more expensive.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 4:30:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: PhiPhiSix] [#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:


Long or short?  That is the question.

Looks like the length of the barrel is so little different that it wouldn’t make much difference. The bigger front hand guard on the full size would be nice. If running a can be slightly shorter K might be better though.

Other than “get both” which one did you buy and why?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:
Originally Posted By PhiPhiSix:
I have a PTR 9CT and love it. The ETS mags even work fine, though I bought more metal mags. I'm kicking around buying the 5" now.


Long or short?  That is the question.

Looks like the length of the barrel is so little different that it wouldn’t make much difference. The bigger front hand guard on the full size would be nice. If running a can be slightly shorter K might be better though.

Other than “get both” which one did you buy and why?

@wm69 the 9CT is the 8.9" barrel. If I only had one, it would be the full size 8.9" barrel.

I've got the SB telescopic brace that looks really nice, makes a compact profile when collapsed. I think next will be the MKE 5" because it's more of a clone. On the full size, I like the welded pic rail of the PTR for optics.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 4:57:35 PM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:


Does your dealer not charge the tax, or are you your own dealer?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:
Originally Posted By Intune69:

@UnknownPatriot
I got my k here.  No sales tax is like getting 10% off for TN residents.
https://www.familyfirearms.com/product-search-results?search_text=Ap5+

ETA:@ropin4gold


Does your dealer not charge the tax, or are you your own dealer?

No, why would he?  I inspect the weapon, pay him $30 for a background check and go on my way.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:18:18 PM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Intune69:

No, why would he?  I inspect the weapon, pay him $30 for a background check and go on my way.
View Quote


I figured you were buying it through your dealer and not just having him do the transfer.  Sales tax is getting retarded in a few states.


Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:23:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: Dog1] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By UnknownPatriot:
Buy the full size if you’re gonna add a silencer. Also you could buy one and have it converted into an SD. I bought one of the original imported by ATF. Ralph at RDTS made it into an SD for me.

It’s epic.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136152/731BA822-6341-40FC-81E3-02E5F8044BB2_jpe-2470819.JPG
View Quote


@UnknownPatriot


That's sexy. If you don't mind me asking what did the conversion run?
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:31:32 PM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By slowr1der:


Yes and no. In the traditional sense, no. However, TPM Machine has a trip lever design that will allow them to work without removing the blocks. Their conversion seems to be difficult to obtain.  

Otherwise no. They have a semi auto bolt carrier, and a block preventing you from installing a full auto carrier. They also have an additional block preventing you from installing a full auto trigger pack. Zenith requested the ATF's opinion on removing these when they were importing the MKE guns, and the ATF's opinion is that removing either of these blocks constitutes manufacturing a post 86 machine gun. Regardless of if you have a full auto sear installed or not.

So unless you have an SOT and are able to manufacturer post 86 machine guns, or you go with one of the trip lever designs, the answer is no, you cannot legally run a sear in these.
View Quote



You sound like you know more than I do.. I thought it was only the metal block they welded in there that stopped the use of a full auto bolt carrier that was the issue? (also if you legally can convert guns with licenses and such, i think its easy to cut this out, AT least it would be easier on my -p model, it doesnt seem welded to the sidewall at all, just the base.. the regular model, i'm not so sure..i'll never be converting so I dont care. Just like to understand how it all works)./
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:34:00 PM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By D_Man:
The "standard" SKUs that qualify for the rebate come with all the extras; the flash hider, extra mag, optic rail mount, cleaning kit and sling.

The "core" SKUs don't qualify for the rebate and is just the basic gun and one mag.

Both types come with the same hard case, and both also have options to buy with a brace if wanted.

IMO, most of the stuff in the "standard" set is junk.  The cleaning kit and sling are junky, and the rail mount is one of the cheapest ones out there.  The flash hider is ok if you want it, but it's not needed and otherwise you're getting the extra mag.

IMO, even accounting for the rebate on the standard SKUs, the "core" models are the better buy for most.
View Quote


except on thos packages where you get the brace for like 40$ more.. (if you're not going to SBR).. That made it worth it since those braces are like 200$ new and i haven't seen a 'core' model offered with that package deal 'yet' doesnt mean it wont happen tho :)
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:35:39 PM EST
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 74novaman:
If you only buy 1, 100% the fullsize.

This coming from a guy with both.  You should buy both.  Im thinking I might need a 3rd!
View Quote



^^^^ 100% this.. nothing will scratch that itch but the full size.. The -p model while shorter and kinda cool is just not as comfortable shoot.. at least in the non-sbr no veritcal grip layout that it comes in, it's just a little tight imo.. but i prefer my subs to be 8 inch barrel variety (scorption ev3 s1 vs s3 kind of thing).  some people like em short tho! I like comfort :)
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:37:40 PM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:
Best mag source?  Errybody seems to be out of stock
View Quote


gunmagwhorehouse (obvoiusly its gunmagwarehouse) has the mke mags all day long for 49 bucks, which is about average price.. IF you shop around you can find the HK brand for about 65... not a HUGE difference imo except everyonce in a while you might get a 'slightly' lout of tolerance MKE mag..
I had 1 mag out of my 4 that came with my two AP5's that had just a BIT more wobble than the rest.. Still functioned perfect..
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:38:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: Electricview] [#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By azscooby:
I would not recommend those mags, though I’ve never seen a review on them.

Buy steel mags from HK>MKE>KCI=New Zenith>AC Unity>ETS……the new Overwatch plastic mags are only about $22 but they are an unknown quantity so far….

I’ve seen a bunch of posts with issues that can magically disappear once a HK/MKE mag is used….

(I have a PTR 9CT and 9KT, and just bought an AP5-P thst was perfect through 500 rounds yesterday).

View Quote


Be slightly careful with the KCI mags.. even the gen 2.. .there's a video on youtube of a guy when using a suppressor the KCI's have feed issue, (but no issue without suppressor) where as the HK's and MKE's do not.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:39:54 PM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Electricview:



^^^^ 100% this.. nothing will scratch that itch but the full size.. The -p model while shorter and kinda cool is just not as comfortable shoot.. at least in the non-sbr no veritcal grip layout that it comes in, it's just a little tight imo.. but i prefer my subs to be 8 inch barrel variety (scorption ev3 s1 vs s3 kind of thing).  some people like em short tho! I like comfort :)
View Quote


Both of mine are SBRs.  Verticle grip on the K helps handling a lot.

But the full size just shoots smoother.  Once you shoot a full size its a lightbulb “ah, thats why these have been popular for 50 years” moment.

Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:41:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: Electricview] [#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 74novaman:


Both of mine are SBRs.  Verticle grip on the K helps handling a lot.

But the full size just shoots smoother.  Once you shoot a full size its a lightbulb “ah, thats why these have been popular for 50 years” moment.

https://i.imgur.com/ldBAPHo.jpg
View Quote


I wondered that about the -p model.. I actually HAVE the grip, but i'm not gonna be a felon and put it on untill I SBR it one day so i am not sure how much it helps.

To me they both shoot VERY Similarly but i admit i did NOT shoot them side by side.. but that nice 'rounded off' recoil is definitely present on both and pleasant to shoot on both!
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:43:24 PM EST
[#27]
Pistols are only good to fight your way to your rifle. Arfcom all agreed on this right?

So wtf use is a PCC?  It’s the same shitty pistol rounds with the added benefit of being too large to carry in a holster.

Save your money OP. Unless you’re doing integrally suppressed 3 round bursts in a movie with Charlie Sheen, there’s no point.

Also, questionable reliability on these.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:43:59 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Electricview:


except on thos packages where you get the brace for like 40$ more.. (if you're not going to SBR).. That made it worth it since those braces are like 200$ new and i haven't seen a 'core' model offered with that package deal 'yet' doesnt mean it wont happen tho :)
View Quote

https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-ap5-pistol-HG6034AB-N

$100 more than their price on the brace-less core SKU.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:49:20 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Electricview:


Be slightly careful with the KCI mags.. even the gen 2.. .there's a video on youtube of a guy when using a suppressor the KCI's have feed issue, (but no issue without suppressor) where as the HK's and MKE's do not.
View Quote

That was SteveMP5.  KCI subsequently made some modifications and the replacements they sent worked.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 5:51:41 PM EST
[#30]
I bought a full size this morning. Now I need mags. I might go for the $65 HK mags if I can actually find them for that price. I have been holding out for an HK for a couple of years. It seems that the price is only going up. MKE it is then.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 6:05:20 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BuddyChryst: It’s the same shitty pistol rounds with the added benefit of being too large to carry in a holster.

Also, questionable reliability on these.
View Quote


I’ve been shooting my MKEs at steel matches weekly since I got them.  No reliability issues.

PCCs are great for a lot of things.  Women/kids love shooting them.

And they’re more than capable of being holstered.

Whole post is just wrong.

Link Posted: 7/30/2022 6:14:08 PM EST
[#32]
Need.

Link Posted: 7/30/2022 6:24:49 PM EST
[#33]
AP5P from Atlantic.
This gun got me to learn how to efile a form 1 including rolling my own prints.
So easy! It took about 6 weeks for the stamp to come back.
Will probably pop on a full size since the prices are just too good to pass up.
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 7:49:47 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 74novaman:


I’ve been shooting my MKEs at steel matches weekly since I got them.  No reliability issues.

PCCs are great for a lot of things.  Women/kids love shooting them.

And they’re more than capable of being holstered.

Whole post is just wrong.

https://i.imgur.com/BfztQpX.jpg
View Quote


That's just too cool.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 7:57:24 PM EST
[#35]
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 9:41:35 PM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fullmedaljacket8:
HK mags
View Quote

I never heard of them. I ordered 10. We shall see.
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 9:48:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: Wangstang] [#37]
Are the chambers fluted on the AP5?

Does the AP5 bolt carrier have tungsten filings loose inside to act as a buffer like the original HK?
Link Posted: 7/30/2022 9:57:08 PM EST
[#38]
I just ordered the AP5-P today. I have a SP5 pistol I am getting ready to Form 1 with the requisite 922r parts.

Link Posted: 7/31/2022 7:06:25 AM EST
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Southernman077:

I never heard of them. I ordered 10. We shall see.
View Quote

Lanbos is good to go.
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 7:07:29 AM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fullmedaljacket8:
HK mags
View Quote

Very good prices for OEM HK.
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 7:16:05 AM EST
[#41]
Stahp. Plz.  I am very close to clicking the order button.

I need to buy something to celebrate HR 1808.
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 7:17:30 AM EST
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kcolg30:

Very good prices for OEM HK.
View Quote



I just bought some. I agree about the price. Their website though is stuck in 20 years ago LOL
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 7:18:13 AM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CAR_16:
Stahp. Plz.  I am very close to clicking the order button.

I need to buy something to celebrate HR 1808.
View Quote

Do it I have all AP5 models. Totally worth it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 8:14:47 AM EST
[#44]
@Dog1

Unfortunately it was over 10 years ago so I’m sure prices have changed.

Having shot several different mp5sd cans side by side with the RDTS, everyone always says it sounds excellent. It has a really good tone.
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 8:22:33 AM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By UnknownPatriot:
@Dog1

Unfortunately it was over 10 years ago so I’m sure prices have changed.

Having shot several different mp5sd cans side by side with the RDTS, everyone always says it sounds excellent. It has a really good tone.
View Quote



Thx! I'll definitely check into it I would buy another full size one to have that done
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 8:32:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: Action45] [#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BuddyChryst:
Pistols are only good to fight your way to your rifle. Arfcom all agreed on this right?

So wtf use is a PCC?  It’s the same shitty pistol rounds with the added benefit of being too large to carry in a holster.

Save your money OP. Unless you’re doing integrally suppressed 3 round bursts in a movie with Charlie Sheen, there’s no point.

Also, questionable reliability on these.
View Quote

Sigh. For the zillionth time, I’ve had a Zenith (MKE) for years now and it runs like a top. Funny how all the people always saying these guns suck don’t seem to own them.
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 8:36:37 AM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Action45:

Sigh. For the zillionth time, I’ve had a Zenith (MKE) for years now and it runs like a top. Funny how all the people always saying these guns suck don’t seem to own them.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Action45:
Originally Posted By BuddyChryst:
Pistols are only good to fight your way to your rifle. Arfcom all agreed on this right?

So wtf use is a PCC?  It’s the same shitty pistol rounds with the added benefit of being too large to carry in a holster.

Save your money OP. Unless you’re doing integrally suppressed 3 round bursts in a movie with Charlie Sheen, there’s no point.

Also, questionable reliability on these.

Sigh. For the zillionth time, I’ve had a Zenith (MKE) for years now and it runs like a top. Funny how all the people always saying these guns suck don’t seem to own them.



Amazing right? Mouth breathers spouting bullshit.
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 8:48:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: WildBoar] [#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wangstang:
Are the chambers fluted on the AP5?

Does the AP5 bolt carrier have tungsten filings loose inside to act as a buffer like the original HK?
View Quote

Fluted. Yes.

Not sure on the filings. Being made on HK machinery , probably but really don't know
Link Posted: 7/31/2022 9:06:45 AM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Fluted. Yes.

Not sure on the filings. Being made on HK machinery , probably but really don't know
View Quote



As well as fully licensed by H&K. Manufacturing licenses generally specify how the item is made, dimensions, and materials as well as quality etc,

Link Posted: 7/31/2022 9:36:30 AM EST
[#50]
What is the difference between the imported by Zenith MKE’s and the US made Zeniths? I mean other then the obvious.
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