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Posted: 6/15/2016 12:04:44 AM EDT
So I have a bunch of pre 97 Ford trucks that I use for work, most of which are 460s. I honestly have to say that for yanking log trailers around in the foot hills of Kentucky I prefer a 460 over the 7.3, but I thought I would make a poll. Which would you choose, for whatever application?
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:05:35 AM EDT
Ibtp, and 7.3 every day here
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:07:57 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jl_434:
Ibtp, and 7.3 every day here
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Aren't you Texas guys on pretty flat ground at highway speed most of the time? Forgive my ignorance.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:08:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2016 12:09:27 AM EDT by jl_434]
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Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:


Aren't you Texas guys on pretty flat ground at highway speed most of the time? Forgive my ignorance.
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Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
Originally Posted By jl_434:
Ibtp, and 7.3 every day here


Aren't you Texas guys on pretty flat ground at highway speed most of the time? Forgive my ignorance.


Not when I pull my travel trailer north or west

And I've owned both, used to pull my race car with a 460 and wouldn't go back
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:09:13 AM EDT
You can replace a 460 for the cost of injectors on a 7.3.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:13:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2016 12:22:15 AM EDT by SixSquared]
Both are great, torquey motors and I've owned both. But I'd take the 7.3 in a heartbeat, especially the turbocharged version. With proper maintenance they will run a long long time and beat the tar out of a 460 pulling hills.

Fuel mileage is much better with the 7.3 also. I eeked out 6-7 mpg in town with the 460 and saw about 10 on the highway unloaded in a lighter truck (85 F350 4x4 crew cab). I get about 12 mpg all in town and about 17-18+ highway with a 2000 crew cab F350 4x4 that weighs 1500 lbs more.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:16:30 AM EDT
7.3, the 460s are pigs.....
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:18:18 AM EDT
I was driving my old 99 F-250 7.3 today and looked down at my miles... Over 352,000 made me smile
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:23:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By sully3acr:
I was driving my old 99 F-250 7.3 today and looked down at my miles... Over 352,000 made me smile
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Yep, my 7.3 just turned 350k and runs like brand new.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:25:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
You can replace a 460 for the cost of injectors on a 7.3.
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True, and I know you are an expert on diesels so I'm not breaking your balls, but won't the injectors last a long time with proper lubricating fuel additives to offset the shitty ULSD fuel?
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:26:40 AM EDT
460

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:46:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By SixSquared:


True, and I know you are an expert on diesels so I'm not breaking your balls, but won't the injectors last a long time with proper lubricating fuel additives to offset the shitty ULSD fuel?
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Originally Posted By SixSquared:
Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
You can replace a 460 for the cost of injectors on a 7.3.


True, and I know you are an expert on diesels so I'm not breaking your balls, but won't the injectors last a long time with proper lubricating fuel additives to offset the shitty ULSD fuel?
Yes. At least 100,000 assuming no water or gas incidents. Usually more. Just given the OPs criteria of older trucks, I'd go with the 460 in this case. The power was near identical when they were new, and the cost per mile is lower on the gas one. Given average wear on both, that A215 7.3l is more like a 165 horse engine now with wore out injectors, beat up turbo, up pipe and boost leaks, and a weak transfer pump.

After $4,500 of work on the 7.3, it is once again all 215 horsepower. Or you could have hung a brand new 460 for that money.
Even with a little custom work like a cam and adjustable timing chain to perk her up some.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 12:44:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
Yes. At least 100,000 assuming no water or gas incidents. Usually more. Just given the OPs criteria of older trucks, I'd go with the 460 in this case. The power was near identical when they were new, and the cost per mile is lower on the gas one. Given average wear on both, that A215 7.3l is more like a 165 horse engine now with wore out injectors, beat up turbo, up pipe and boost leaks, and a weak transfer pump.


After $4,500 of work on the 7.3, it is once again all 215 horsepower. Or you could have hung a brand new 460 for that money.
Even with a little custom work like a cam and adjustable timing chain to perk her up some.
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Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
Originally Posted By SixSquared:
Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
You can replace a 460 for the cost of injectors on a 7.3.


True, and I know you are an expert on diesels so I'm not breaking your balls, but won't the injectors last a long time with proper lubricating fuel additives to offset the shitty ULSD fuel?
Yes. At least 100,000 assuming no water or gas incidents. Usually more. Just given the OPs criteria of older trucks, I'd go with the 460 in this case. The power was near identical when they were new, and the cost per mile is lower on the gas one. Given average wear on both, that A215 7.3l is more like a 165 horse engine now with wore out injectors, beat up turbo, up pipe and boost leaks, and a weak transfer pump.


After $4,500 of work on the 7.3, it is once again all 215 horsepower. Or you could have hung a brand new 460 for that money.
Even with a little custom work like a cam and adjustable timing chain to perk her up some.


Gotcha, thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 6/17/2016 1:33:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2016 1:37:33 AM EDT
I have a buddy whose Y2K F350 had 650k on the engine before he blew it playing dumbass.
He's been through another motor and on his third in the 100k since then.
He gets 12mpg virtually all the time, but he doesn't haul anything with it anymore.
Link Posted: 6/17/2016 4:36:10 AM EDT
It never ceases to amaze me at the number of people who think the diesel engines in pickup trucks are some magical wonder of man when in fact they they ride on the coat tails of real diesel engines that are in heavy equipment and trucks.

Modern light truck and passenger car diesels most likely will not live any longer than a gas engine powered version of the same vehicle.
The long life diesel lore was the result of diesel engines in trucks trains and heavy equipment turning at very low RPM's at constant speeds for long periods of time.
Link Posted: 6/17/2016 11:59:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:


One of the things you under appreciate when you have access to a shop and parts at cost. Any time a diesel comes into the shop its 2k, lol.

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Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:
Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
You can replace a 460 for the cost of injectors on a 7.3.


One of the things you under appreciate when you have access to a shop and parts at cost. Any time a diesel comes into the shop its 2k, lol.

I don't mind ringing that particular cash register on a daily basis.
Link Posted: 6/18/2016 2:31:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2016 3:08:28 AM EDT by Keekleberrys]
Link Posted: 6/18/2016 3:18:19 AM EDT
Double check the low/base oil pump. Remove the crank pulley, pump cover, and pump out of the front cover. Inspect the front cover for gouges around in the pump area. It doesn't take much to lower the base oil pressure. Also remove the base oil relief valve a check it slides free in the housing.
Link Posted: 6/18/2016 3:41:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2016 3:48:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:


They're nice when they are easy to diag. Have a stupid intermittent hard start that's kicking my ass. I'm still relatively green especially on diesel theory so I'm not at the top of my game on diag skills. Wondering if I can pick your brain a little bit.

Friggen 6.0 ambulance (on e-van chassis, of course) back in here again for a 3rd time with intermittent long crank. We put 2 high pressure pumps and IPR's, on it (SPW). Originally saw low cranking ICP(0 until startup), so initial thought was branch tube high pressure leak. But we've put two pumps in it and it starts easier warm than cold which seems counter-intuitive to a high pressure oil leak. Hotline wanted us to verify base oil, overfilled by 3 quarts to rule out pickup, 0 psi till a few seconds after start up which seems odd to me but not sure if its normal to take a bit to build base oil since the pressure port is the EOT at the top of the block. It fills the filter housing after about 7-10 seconds which according to hotline is good. OPR slides freely in its bore. Only does it some of the time. Funny thing is it takes a month each time for it to come back. Donno if its because its fixed for that amount of time or because it happens that intermittently, or they are just lazy about bringing it back. But base oil seems fine other than that one weird pressure reading, volume delivery seems fine. Gonna full field the IPR and air test it on monday but if its a high pressure oil leak it has to be so small I'm not terribly optimistic about finding it.

Everything i do on this thing takes 2 fucking hours to access through the doggy door or the 5 inches of space under the hood.
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Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:
Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:
Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
You can replace a 460 for the cost of injectors on a 7.3.


One of the things you under appreciate when you have access to a shop and parts at cost. Any time a diesel comes into the shop its 2k, lol.

I don't mind ringing that particular cash register on a daily basis.


They're nice when they are easy to diag. Have a stupid intermittent hard start that's kicking my ass. I'm still relatively green especially on diesel theory so I'm not at the top of my game on diag skills. Wondering if I can pick your brain a little bit.

Friggen 6.0 ambulance (on e-van chassis, of course) back in here again for a 3rd time with intermittent long crank. We put 2 high pressure pumps and IPR's, on it (SPW). Originally saw low cranking ICP(0 until startup), so initial thought was branch tube high pressure leak. But we've put two pumps in it and it starts easier warm than cold which seems counter-intuitive to a high pressure oil leak. Hotline wanted us to verify base oil, overfilled by 3 quarts to rule out pickup, 0 psi till a few seconds after start up which seems odd to me but not sure if its normal to take a bit to build base oil since the pressure port is the EOT at the top of the block. It fills the filter housing after about 7-10 seconds which according to hotline is good. OPR slides freely in its bore. Only does it some of the time. Funny thing is it takes a month each time for it to come back. Donno if its because its fixed for that amount of time or because it happens that intermittently, or they are just lazy about bringing it back. But base oil seems fine other than that one weird pressure reading, volume delivery seems fine. Gonna full field the IPR and air test it on monday but if its a high pressure oil leak it has to be so small I'm not terribly optimistic about finding it.

Everything i do on this thing takes 2 fucking hours to access through the doggy door or the 5 inches of space under the hood.
Long (2-3 seconds) base oil build is normal. The reservoir can supply about 8 seconds of oil with no lube oil flow.

I'd suspect that a leaking injector, injector crown ring, or rail nipple ring is draining one of the rails when the unit sits in the firehouse for a few days.
See if you can correlate longer off rotation times with your customer to the symptom.

You can verify it with an air test and repair every leak no matter how small, or give it a few days and teardown both rails and see if one is empty. Or both.

Air test, take notes of all leaks, including injectors that clear their spillback ports, start and warm the engine, let it sit a few days, and tear down. If one rail is dry and you previously found a leak on that side, boom she gone.

I put a bare block in one under warranty once for a pinhole in the well under the cooler.it was a real bitch to find. Same symptoms, after 2 days the well was empty and it wouldn't start for shit. Never could find where it was going until it was on the stand. That one took 20 seconds to get oil pressure as it had to fill the oil cooler well every time.

Warranty bare block 6.0 was like 14.2 hours. I got stiffed for the front cover hotline demanded I install that fixed nothing.
Link Posted: 6/18/2016 3:51:53 AM EDT
If you need specific instructions on breaking that thing down for testing, feel free to call me.
Link Posted: 6/18/2016 4:03:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2016 4:07:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keekleberr


That's helpful and definitely consistent with what i'm seeing its not a 20 second crank. More like 5-10'sh. It's gotta be a small injector leak or something siphoning down the high-pressure oil.
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Average 7 seconds is about what you see after an injector replacement and empty rail on one side.
Link Posted: 6/23/2016 9:36:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2016 9:40:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:


Air tested and heard a bunch of air passenger side. I knew I was in for a bad day when the first special tool listed on the WSM is an engine hoist and lifting brackets, FML. Tore it down yesterday&today. Dummy plug bottom o-ring passenger side is all chewed up.

That sucked, sucked bad. Dropping a motor mount and removing a bunch of unnecessary bull shit all for a valve cover

Half a mind to stick a jack between the frame and the block and but then I thought better of it.

All that bullshit for a rubber o-ring that probably cost them less than 15 cents when they built the truck.

http://i.imgur.com/KR1faGL.jpg



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Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:
Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
Originally Posted By Keekleberr


That's helpful and definitely consistent with what i'm seeing its not a 20 second crank. More like 5-10'sh. It's gotta be a small injector leak or something siphoning down the high-pressure oil.
Average 7 seconds is about what you see after an injector replacement and empty rail on one side.


Air tested and heard a bunch of air passenger side. I knew I was in for a bad day when the first special tool listed on the WSM is an engine hoist and lifting brackets, FML. Tore it down yesterday&today. Dummy plug bottom o-ring passenger side is all chewed up.

That sucked, sucked bad. Dropping a motor mount and removing a bunch of unnecessary bull shit all for a valve cover

Half a mind to stick a jack between the frame and the block and but then I thought better of it.

All that bullshit for a rubber o-ring that probably cost them less than 15 cents when they built the truck.

http://i.imgur.com/KR1faGL.jpg



At least you didn't have to pull the header.
Link Posted: 6/23/2016 9:41:10 PM EDT
I prefer the 460 so when the truck frame rusts through I can put the engines in something cool





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