BY JEFFREY GAUTREAUX, Sun STAFF WRITER
Feb 23, 2006, 8:51 pm

The U.S. Border Patrol has confirmed that a Mexican government helicopter crossed into the United States Tuesday evening.

The unmarked helicopter crossed into the U.S. near San Luis, Ariz., at 6:30 p.m. and traveled along the Colorado River for approximately a half a mile before returning to Mexico, according to a Customs and Border Protection release.

"After proper coordination and verifications with the government of Mexico, they confirmed that the helicopter belonged to the Mexican Attorney General's Office (PGR) and had mistakenly and unintentionally crossed into U.S. airspace," the release said.

PGR is the federal police force that investigates federal offenses, predominantly drug trafficking and organized crime.

Local border watcher Flash Sharrar, who saw the helicopter while on patrol near County 12th Street, remained steadfast that the helicopter was carrying Mexican soldiers, not federal agents. "That was Mexican military," he said. "You could see the uniforms."

Sharrar, the co-founder of the Yuma Patriots, said the chopper traveled much farther than a half-mile while it was in the United States. He said it was circling in U.S. airspace for as long as 20 minutes.

Yuma sector Border Patrol spokesman Michael Gramley said this was the first incursion by a Mexican helicopter that he could recall in the Yuma sector. Gramley did not have any information beyond that which was provided in the report.

"I think it's happened more often than we really know," Sharrar said.

Sharrar said if the Patriots had not witnessed the incursion, the Border Patrol would have denied that it happened.

Gramley said that would not be the case. "We would surely not attempt to cover up an incident of this type," he said.

Tuesday evening, Gramley said agents in the field had seen the helicopter. However, at the time, they believed that it had not crossed the border. Later, CBP's Air Marine Operations Center was notified and radar confirmed the helicopter had flown into the United States.

Last month, the Inland Valley (Calif.) Daily Bulletin reported that there had been 216 incursions into the United States by Mexican soldiers since 1996, citing a Department of Homeland Security document the newspaper obtained. The story said the Mexican military had crossed over in the Yuma area 24 times during that period.

CBP said the agency and Mexico take such incidents seriously and are working to ensure they do not occur in the future.

Sharrar said he was "still in awe" that the incursion had happened. When asked if he felt vindicated, Sharrar said instead he felt "violated."

"Let's say it was a terrorist dropping something into our country," he said. "That's a big concern. I feel violated as a citizen and as a patroller."

Why wasn't it shot down upon invading the USA?

JEEEEEEEEZUS AGE CHRYST!!!!!!    After we stop their air travel, I have a feeling they'll resort to catapults and trebuchet's.      

A pox on you, and your family,  Vicente Fox.  

Quoted: Why wasn't it shot down upon invading the USA?

I'm glad to know that the ADIZs are doing their job.

Doing OP's for JTF-6 we used to 'slip' into mexico all the time.

I am glad they didn't shoot us down. Not that they had the means to do so....

even if they didnt shoot it down..... why didnt we at least scramble fighters to respond?  F-16's from Luke could have been there in less than 5 min, and those clowns were over our country far longer than that.


This is out of hand.

Meh.  I'll assume it was an honest mistake unless there's evidence otherwise.  I think shooting it down is a bit of an over-reaction, but the escort idea is valid.

Of course, they could have been scouting for smugglers....

Get 'em with a grappling hook & winch 'em down.

You "escort" unfriendlies when they are CLOSE to your airspace, not IN it.

They should have been forced down by our aircraft and shaken down, interrogated on the ground, then returned in a cattle truck, their chopper dismantled and mailed back across the border.

We must spend billions of dollars on a GIANT BADMINTON NET!

Lost, riiiiiight, I have a $150 GPS that fits in my hand w/accuracy to 15 ft and these stupid fucks can get lost in a military Helo.

LAV-AD GAU-12/U 25mm Gatling gun

Quoted: Lost, riiiiiight, I have a $150 GPS that fits in my hand w/accuracy to 15 ft and these stupid fucks can get lost in a military Helo.

We're talking about the same folks that dress up as a captains chairs,  or shove themselves inside an engine compartment to get over here.   They are the sharpest tac in the box.

Local border watcher Flash Sharrar...

Would that be "Flash" in the flesh?

Why is everybody getting so excited for? The "deal" for the Southwest has already been DONE. Texas,New Mexico,California,Colorado and Nevada will soon be "Aztlan"......the "new" owners have been moving in for some time....why do you think 'ole GWB is acting so un-concerned? The "deal" is DONE. The Mexican helicopter  belonged to a Real Estate agent out of Mexico City ....he was just showing off where the new bridge and barios were going in and taking options on parcels. You whaight mofos that still live in what "used" to be US Property best be movin along down the road cause the "new" owners don't need your 'ignt whaight asses fo shuck.

People just don't seem to have a clue as to what the fuck is going on. Course I suppose that is part of the "Done Deal." Can't be havin any of that destroying property to keep the "New Owners" from having a good start now ....right?        

Quoted: Quoted: Lost, riiiiiight, I have a $150 GPS that fits in my hand w/accuracy to 15 ft and these stupid fucks can get lost in a military Helo. We're talking about the same folks that dress up as a captains chairs,  or shove themselves inside an engine compartment to get over here.   They are the sharpest tac in the box.

no comment

At the very least F-16s should have been scrambled but shoot it down? No.

I live in Yuma, and that pisssed me off.  To any other country that is act of war, but the U.S. will investigate with "our partners on the border."

If fighters did get scrambled, you know some bleeding heart liberal group would of filed some lame ass lawsuit claiming the U.S. Military/Govt infringed on the rights of the "lost" Mexicans.

Sorry, but this does not excite me. I guarantee we (US aircraft, government or not) accidently fly into Mexican airspace on a daily basis.

The U.S. Border Patrol has confirmed that a Mexican government helicopter crossed into the United States Tuesday evening.

Confirmed.......yes, dealt with.......NO

They were only violating the airspace that Americans won't violate themselves.

Quoted: Sorry, but this does not excite me. I guarantee we (US aircraft, government or not) accidently fly into Mexican airspace on a daily basis.

Yup.

Quoted: They were only violating the airspace that Americans won't violate themselves.

 Yup, Move along nuthin' to see here.....

Local border watcher Flash Sharrar, who saw the helicopter while on patrol near County 12th Street, remained steadfast that the helicopter was carrying Mexican soldiers, not federal agents. "That was Mexican military," he said. "You could see the uniforms."

Sounds like they were doing some hunting of their own and tresspassing while doing it.

so for you guys that think they were on some nefarious mission.....what exactly do you think they were doing?

Quoted: so for you guys that think they were on some nefarious mission.....what exactly do you think they were doing?

Scouting out locations for new tunnels into the US so they can bring drugs and illegals in easier.Either that or looking for their lost shipment of cocaine.

Quoted: so for you guys that think they were on some nefarious mission.....what exactly do you think they were doing?

 Could it be something as simple as dropping drugs that are backing up on their side due to the tunnels being found, better enforcement by the BP and citizens, etc.  ORRRR maybe just out for a joyride.  It IS a mind bender as to the reason so we should obviously just wave and smile at 'em.

I was stationed at MCAS Yuma for 2 1/2 yrs.  We used to catch illegal aliens walking down the runway because they thought it was a friggin highway.  If I remember correctly, Yuma ain't but about 13 miles from the Mexican border.  As far as scrambling F-16's from Luke AFB, you don't need to go that far.  I believe MCAS Yuma has F-18's and AV-8B's stationed there and there is always, ALWAYS flight ops going on there because of the near perfect weather.  It wouldn't be a problem to scramble or redirect assets to that location to identify a threat and take the appropriate action,

Quoted: Quoted: so for you guys that think they were on some nefarious mission.....what exactly do you think they were doing?  Could it be something as simple as dropping drugs that are backing up on their side due to the tunnels being found, better enforcement by the BP and citizens, etc.  ORRRR maybe just out for a joyride.  It IS a mind bender as to the reason so we should obviously just wave and smile at 'em.

I wasn't saying that....I just want to see what kind of hare-brained theories y'all had.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: so for you guys that think they were on some nefarious mission.....what exactly do you think they were doing?  Could it be something as simple as dropping drugs that are backing up on their side due to the tunnels being found, better enforcement by the BP and citizens, etc.  ORRRR maybe just out for a joyride.  It IS a mind bender as to the reason so we should obviously just wave and smile at 'em. I wasn't saying that....I just want to see what kind of hare-brained theories y'all had.

 Exactly what would you suggest for a response and do you have any theories (hare-brained or otherwise) as to what their intentions COULD have been?  I'm always looking for answers (Not just pissy little jabs) from folks who look at these situations and aren't somewhat troubled and curious.  Please, enlighten me.

Quoted: who look at these situations and aren't somewhat troubled and curious.  Please, enlighten me.

This wasn't directed to me, but I'll bite.

I'm neither somewhat troubled nor curious.

I am disgusted.  We are being invaded daily by people who bring a surge in the crime rate of this country.  They put us in danger every time they drive or go to the doctor uninsured, and often they receive benefits from the tax money you pay.

What makes me disgusted about all of this is the fact that the .gov on a whole is focused on telling us what a great job they're doing killing the terrorists they told us to worry about.

I'm worried about the 7 million man Army living inside our border, a population that doubled from 1990 to 2000 and is continuing to grow exponentially.                                                                                            (source http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/Illegal2002.pdf)

Even if you're not worried about the Mexicans, you should be worried about a nuke getting smuggled across the border by one of the Arabs everyone is so worried about.  

A foreign country, known to be invading us, flew into our airspace and hung out for a while.

They should have been shot down.

Quoted: Quoted: who look at these situations and aren't somewhat troubled and curious.  Please, enlighten me. This wasn't directed to me, but I'll bite. I'm neither somewhat troubled nor curious. I am disgusted.  We are being invaded daily by people who bring a surge in the crime rate of this country.  They put us in danger every time they drive or go to the doctor uninsured, and often they receive benefits from the tax money you pay. What makes me disgusted about all of this is the fact that the .gov on a whole is focused on telling us what a great job they're doing killing the terrorists they told us to worry about. I'm worried about the 7 million man Army living inside our border, a population that doubled from 1990 to 2000 and is continuing to grow exponentially.                                                                                            (source http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/Illegal2002.pdf) Even if you're not worried about the Mexicans, you should be worried about a nuke getting smuggled across the border by one of the Arabs everyone is so worried about.   A foreign country, known to be invading us, flew into our airspace and hung out for a while. They should have been shot down.

 I happen to AGREE with you.  The feller I was quoting called ANY speculation as to the reason for the incursion (hare-brained) and finds humor in the hordes that have been allowed here.  As we are able to discuss this subject less and less his opinion will be seen as the majority even though it is by far the minority.  Sadly, That's how it is.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: who look at these situations and aren't somewhat troubled and curious.  Please, enlighten me. This wasn't directed to me, but I'll bite. I'm neither somewhat troubled nor curious. I am disgusted.  We are being invaded daily by people who bring a surge in the crime rate of this country.  They put us in danger every time they drive or go to the doctor uninsured, and often they receive benefits from the tax money you pay. What makes me disgusted about all of this is the fact that the .gov on a whole is focused on telling us what a great job they're doing killing the terrorists they told us to worry about. I'm worried about the 7 million man Army living inside our border, a population that doubled from 1990 to 2000 and is continuing to grow exponentially.                                                                                            (source http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/Illegal2002.pdf) Even if you're not worried about the Mexicans, you should be worried about a nuke getting smuggled across the border by one of the Arabs everyone is so worried about.   A foreign country, known to be invading us, flew into our airspace and hung out for a while. They should have been shot down.  I happen to AGREE with you.  The feller I was quoting called ANY speculation as to the reason for the incursion (hare-brained) and finds humor in the hordes that have been allowed here.  As we are able to discuss this subject less and less his opinion will be seen as the majority even though it is by far the minority.  Sadly, That's how it is.

thanks for putting words in my mouth

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: who look at these situations and aren't somewhat troubled and curious.  Please, enlighten me. This wasn't directed to me, but I'll bite. I'm neither somewhat troubled nor curious. I am disgusted.  We are being invaded daily by people who bring a surge in the crime rate of this country.  They put us in danger every time they drive or go to the doctor uninsured, and often they receive benefits from the tax money you pay. What makes me disgusted about all of this is the fact that the .gov on a whole is focused on telling us what a great job they're doing killing the terrorists they told us to worry about. I'm worried about the 7 million man Army living inside our border, a population that doubled from 1990 to 2000 and is continuing to grow exponentially.                                                                                            (source http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/Illegal2002.pdf) Even if you're not worried about the Mexicans, you should be worried about a nuke getting smuggled across the border by one of the Arabs everyone is so worried about.   A foreign country, known to be invading us, flew into our airspace and hung out for a while. They should have been shot down.  I happen to AGREE with you.  The feller I was quoting called ANY speculation as to the reason for the incursion (hare-brained) and finds humor in the hordes that have been allowed here.  As we are able to discuss this subject less and less his opinion will be seen as the majority even though it is by far the minority.  Sadly, That's how it is.   thanks for putting words in my mouth

 If my perception of your snide jab was not correct please elaborate as to what you meant to imply.  It appeared clear to me, if I'm mistaken I apologize and really would like to understand what you intended to say, instead of what you SAID.  "I wasn't saying that....I just want to see what kind of hare-brained theories y'all had."  Fair 'nuff?

 

Quoted: Meh.  I'll assume it was an honest mistake unless there's evidence otherwise.  I think shooting it down is a bit of an over-reaction, but the escort idea is valid. Of course, they could have been scouting covering for smugglers....

Fixed it for ya.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: who look at these situations and aren't somewhat troubled and curious.  Please, enlighten me. This wasn't directed to me, but I'll bite. I'm neither somewhat troubled nor curious. I am disgusted.  We are being invaded daily by people who bring a surge in the crime rate of this country.  They put us in danger every time they drive or go to the doctor uninsured, and often they receive benefits from the tax money you pay. What makes me disgusted about all of this is the fact that the .gov on a whole is focused on telling us what a great job they're doing killing the terrorists they told us to worry about. I'm worried about the 7 million man Army living inside our border, a population that doubled from 1990 to 2000 and is continuing to grow exponentially.                                                                                            (source http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/Illegal2002.pdf) Even if you're not worried about the Mexicans, you should be worried about a nuke getting smuggled across the border by one of the Arabs everyone is so worried about.   A foreign country, known to be invading us, flew into our airspace and hung out for a while. They should have been shot down.  I happen to AGREE with you.  The feller I was quoting called ANY speculation as to the reason for the incursion (hare-brained) and finds humor in the hordes that have been allowed here.  As we are able to discuss this subject less and less his opinion will be seen as the majority even though it is by far the minority.  Sadly, That's how it is.   thanks for putting words in my mouth  If my perception of your snide jab was not correct please elaborate as to what you meant to imply.  It appeared clear to me, if I'm mistaken I apologize and really would like to understand what you intended to say, instead of what you SAID.  "I wasn't saying that....I just want to see what kind of hare-brained theories y'all had."  Fair 'nuff?

there's reasonable speculation (which some posters may have) and there's hare-brained speculation. ARFCOM, as you know, is one of the world's leading producers of hare-brained speculation...

there's nothing wrong with speculation, but the result of that speculation often produces some "interesting" theories.

Seems like you feel as if your speculation might be viewed as hare-brained, so my post got your back up pretty quickly.

For example, if you believe this helo was scouting routes for a land invasion....

If you believe a single helo (that probably wasn't a gunship) constitutes an "invasion" and should be shot down....

Quoted: www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/stinger_03.jpg www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/ENU/images/CAA%20Vulcan%2020mm_jpg.jpg www.2ndrangers.org/Unit%20Photos/WWII%20Weekend%2004/Quad_50.JPG www.usarc.army.mil/88thRSC/other_units/history_museum/collection_images/M247.jpg

Think any of those will be available from the CMP?

Quoted: there's reasonable speculation (which some posters may have) and there's hare-brained speculation. ARFCOM, as you know, is one of the world's leading producers of hare-brained speculation... there's nothing wrong with speculation, but the result of that speculation often produces some "interesting" theories. Agree 100% Seems like you feel as if your speculation might be viewed as hare-brained, so my post got your back up pretty quickly. Not at all, IMO the corrupt Mexican .gov has been aiding drug/human smugglers for years, it's certainly probable that with the recent tunnels discovered and border enforcement improving they would use whatever methods necessary to continue the profitable flow of drugs, etc. Your attempt to call it hare-brained simply needed to be rebutted IMO. For example, if you believe this helo was scouting routes for a land invasion.... If you believe a single helo (that probably wasn't a gunship) constitutes an "invasion" and should be shot down....LOL, These are silly and designed to justify your statement.

 Do you actually have any ideas on the possible motive of this incursion or do you only have an opinion on the opinions of others?  Just curious as your side is starting to make progress against a lot of the good work done by the Minutemen and many others.  

 I also believe it could be "hare-brained" to consider it was anything BUT "nefarious" with the track record of the Mexican military aiding the smugglers. Visit the border sometime, it may change your mind.

 

Quoted: Quoted: there's reasonable speculation (which some posters may have) and there's hare-brained speculation. ARFCOM, as you know, is one of the world's leading producers of hare-brained speculation... there's nothing wrong with speculation, but the result of that speculation often produces some "interesting" theories. Agree 100% Seems like you feel as if your speculation might be viewed as hare-brained, so my post got your back up pretty quickly. Not at all, IMO the corrupt Mexican .gov has been aiding drug/human smugglers for years, it's certainly probable that with the recent tunnels discovered and border enforcement improving they would use whatever methods necessary to continue the profitable flow of drugs, etc. Your attempt to call it hare-brained simply needed to be rebutted IMO. For example, if you believe this helo was scouting routes for a land invasion.... If you believe a single helo (that probably wasn't a gunship) constitutes an "invasion" and should be shot down....LOL, These are silly and designed to justify your statement.  Do you actually have any ideas on the possible motive of this incursion or do you only have an opinion on the opinions of others?  Just curious as your side is starting to make progress against a lot of the good work done by the Minutemen and many others.    I also believe it could be "hare-brained" to consider it was anything BUT "nefarious" with the track record of the Mexican military aiding the smugglers. Visit the border sometime, it may change your mind.

Uhhhh...........it wasn't even the mexican military, they are not even allowed within one mile of the US Border
Soooo............since it wasn't the mexican military, it must have been criminals or deserters........or actors

www.sierratimes.com/06/02/03/12_199_45_176_99185.htm Rafael Laveaga, spokesman for the Mexican Embassy in Washington, has denied Mexican military personnel are crossing into the United States, "I strongly deny any incursions by the Mexican military as inaccurate allegations," Laveaga said. "The Mexican military is a well-respected institution with strict rules on how to control Northern Mexico. It maintains a protocol of not going within a mile of the border, and those who would trespass would be severely punished." He said some drug smugglers headed "both north and south" wear uniforms and drive military-type vehicles, and might have "confused" U.S. authorities. "Give me a break," said T.J. Bonner, a 27-year Border Patrol veteran who heads the National Border Patrol Council. "Intrusions by the Mexican military to protect drug loads happen all the time and represent a significant threat to the agents. Why else would they be in the area, firing at federal agents in the United States? There is no other explanation," said Bonner. As to the reports that Mexican military units had crossed mistakenly into the United States, Bonner said, "Every country's military has a global positioning system nowadays, including the Mexicans. If the border is so poorly marked, why don't the thousands of Border Patrol agents working 24/7 along it ever seem to get lost, and none of us have been issued a GPS," he said.

Anybody down for a border raid next time I come to Texas on vacation?  Id take leave to do a couple in full gear, if anybody has a supressor that will fit a birdcage FH Id like to borrow it for a night.

 I hear ya 22bad.  I guess I should cease being amazed at the apathy and willingness to just let our "friends" from the South be allowed to run amok..... Hey, maybe it was just a group of tourists wanting to see the sights. (I CAN come up with "hare-brained" ideas after all!!)
 

Quoted:  I hear ya 22bad.  I guess I should cease being amazed at the apathy and willingness to just let our "friends" from the South be allowed to run amok..... Hey, maybe it was just a group of tourists wanting to see the sights. (I CAN come up with "hare-brained" ideas after all!!)

That sounds plausible, a group of tourists sightseeing in a Huey, while wearing fatigues..........to get the whole "invading military experience"

MUCH more believable than the mexican military scouting\support for the drug dealers and slavers

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Local border watcher Flash Sharrar, who saw the helicopter while on patrol near County 12th Street, remained steadfast that the helicopter was carrying Mexican soldiers, not federal agents. "That was Mexican military," he said. "You could see the uniforms." Sounds like they were doing some hunting of their own and tresspassing while doing it. so for you guys that think they were on some nefarious mission.....what exactly do you think they were doing?

Well let's review shall we.

Border patrol has been shot at numerous times and a few wounded and perhaps more than one  killed. Some chased by sizeable contingents (3-4 vehicles with full loads)within our borders while packing a rather large array of small arms (including .50 cal mounted to vehicles) and they do this brazenly using Mexican military vehicles.

Drug Lords putting out bounties for any U.S. law enforcement shot and killed.

U.S. law enforcement shot at by well armed individuals across the border if they come a bit close to the border.

Known ties between segments of the  Mexican government and drug dealers (thinking maybe the DEA agent killed a few years back substantiated this).

Just recently the 3-4 vehicles retreating back across the Rio Grande and burning one of their vehicles when it became stuck. Them fellers were supposed to be pretty well armed and dressed like Mexican mil/ federales.

U.S. Border Patrol agents warned not to talk about the armed incursions with anyone outside of u.s. government officials.

That huge ravine of marijuana (1-1.5 miles) in Arizona guarded by some ex-mexican military in the mix. Pretty well armed fellows too.

These tunnels are supposed to be rather complicated and there is suspicion that there may be some rather knowledgable people with some pretty good equipment helping to build them. Also remember vaguely something about talk of there being reason for our Gov't (do believe it was DEA/ immigration) sending out warnings to alert potential laborers that working on such projects could be detrimental to their longevity from those hiring to do the work.

They've been doing armed incursions into the U.S. shooting at our law enforcement for many years.
And it doesn't seem to worry them too much that anyone would be alarmed about this.

But your right it's just a Mexican Government helicopter spending 20 minutes flying around our airspace at will with armed soldiers along for the ride. Nothing to see here folks move along...

Quoted: But your right it's just a Mexican Government helicopter spending 20 minutes flying around our airspace at will with armed soldiers along for the ride. Nothing to see here folks move along...

Exactly.  We can't worry about the Mexican border and the illegal activities happening on around and over it.  We have a war on terrorism to fight.

Fox one.

Fox two.