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Posted: 11/2/2009 8:05:38 AM EST
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20091102/NEWS05/311029955

Look, let me ask you guys something.

Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:09:02 AM EST
They really don't want anyone outside of their little circle jerk to win.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:09:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:10:11 AM EST by Atomic_Ferret]
But, but but.. Anybody with an R after their name is good to have in office.

And the presence of 3rd party candidates only hurt the Republican party...



At least she was unmasked now, rather then after the elections.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:11:18 AM EST
Republicans who are pro choice, open borders pro Gay marrage, Brady bunch voters are not Republicans.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:12:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20091102/NEWS05/311029955

Look, let me ask you guys something.

Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?




The GOP will be the death of the GOP.

Did you see Newt's comments about this. He said basically, I'm stunned she's backing the Democrat, "She told us she was a Republican."

Even Boehner said, we need moderation in the GOP. (The GOP is infested with moderation)

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:14:02 AM EST
IMO, theGOP is behind this. They aren't afraid of Hoffman. They're afraid of Palins star power and PAC is he wins.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:14:23 AM EST
Sweet. I agree OP.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:17:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:21:09 AM EST by XD_Fan]
If your going to throw away any future political career and any shred of credibility you might have ever had, then go out with a bang, burn all your bridges and just act like a retard in general.

This should help Hoffman immensely.


"St. Lawrence County Democratic Committee Chairman Mark J. Bellardini predicted Mr. Owens will gain votes with his focus on local issues.
"It should be about this district," he said. "I think that the rank and file will support him."

"Rank and file" = Be good little serfs and vote like we order you to.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:21:40 AM EST
ANYthing to keep the two party system.

These people have absolutely no interest in governing efficiently or justly, they just want to keep power. R's and D's both. And the way things are so entrenched in DC, the two party system lets the same folks keep power pretty much as long as they want.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:21:51 AM EST
What a hateful, classless bull-dyke.

I hope Hoffman kicks butt tomorrow. I just talked with someone from one of his HQs, and they're very optimistic. "Euphoric" was the term she used.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:21:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Republicans who are pro choice, open borders pro Gay marrage, Brady bunch voters are not Republicans.


Actually, that's exactly what many of the RINOs in office are.

What they are NOT, are conservatives. And they cannot even be mentioned on the same page as libertarians.

Scuzzo is now fully outed as the liberal in RINO's clothing she has always been; no one should be surprised.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:21:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:22:14 AM EST
ANYthing to keep the two party system.

These people have absolutely no interest in governing efficiently or justly, they just want to keep power. R's and D's both. And the way things are so entrenched in DC, the two party system lets the same folks keep power pretty much as long as they want.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:23:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:23:26 AM EST by flyfishnepa]


good

hopefully everyone realizes what a RINO will get you



Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:24:18 AM EST
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29008.html

Conservatives take aim at leaders, Crist, other races


The conservative coup in upstate New York did much more than lay bare the power of conservative activists: It exposed how little control GOP officials hold over this surging and formidable political movement.

In the wake of conservatives’ role in forcing liberal Republican Dede Scozzafava out of Tuesday’s special election in New York’s 23rd District, GOP officials are trying to make it seem as if they are helping to stoke the passion — and can harness it to upend President Barack Obama and Democrats. They didn’t — and they can’t.

Many of the activists who helped knock out Scozzafava told POLITICO that the passion is building despite — and sometimes to spite — Republican leaders in Washington.

“I don’t give a crap about party,” said Jennifer Bernstone, a tea party organizer for Central New York 912, which helped to lead the anti-Scozzafava charge. “Grass-roots activists don’t care about party.”

Says Everett Wilkinson, a tea party organizer in Florida: “We are not going to allow our [movement] to be stolen by the GOP or by any political party.”

This energy on the right seems to exist outside the control of the conventional political structure, and GOP politicians and operatives are as likely to be victims of this anger as beneficiaries.

GOP leaders are about to learn the lesson again, several conservatives warned. Grass-roots activists are ready to turn their fire on Republicans in a host of races across the country, said Adam Brandon, a spokesman for FreedomWorks, an organization that helped gin up the tea party protests and town hall flare-ups.

“If you look at other bellwether races, we’re still going to be on opposing sides,” said Brandon, who pointed to the Florida Senate race, where a conservative former state House speaker is taking on GOP-establishment-backed Gov. Charlie Crist as the next major conservative electoral stand.

“There are going to be other conflicts,” said Brandon. “We have a lot of work to do. The [Doug] Hoffman campaign was the beginning. It was not the climax.”

Tom Davis, former head of the National Republican Congressional Committee, said this rage against the GOP machine might feel good for disgruntled conservatives, but it could also land Republicans deep in the minority for years to come.

“It becomes a challenge for Republicans to harness this energy in an appropriate fashion,” he said. “Part of the responsibility of the minority is to harness the energy against the majority.”

Still, he warned, load on too many conservatives, and they will “sink the boat.”

To be blunt, many conservative activists couldn’t care less what Davis and top party officials think about them and their brand of politics.

They feel they were had by former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), who urged them to stomach earmarks for the good of the party; by George W. Bush adviser Karl Rove, who urged them to stomach a massive expansion of education and Medicare for the good of the party; and by the rest of the Washington gang that collaborated in the largest expansion of government in their lifetime for the good of the party.



Erick Erickson, founder and editor of the conservative RedState blog, said grass-roots activists are done listening.

“Republicans are going to have to come our way,” he said, before going on to trash NRCC Chairman Pete Sessions and Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele for backing Scozzafava.

Their “level of disingenuousness ... is disgusting,” Erickson said.

His influential blog is now calling for Sessions to get the boot from the NRCC as a penalty for mishandling the race.

Erickson’s bombast may seem overboard, but it captures the depths of anger over the handling of this special election. It’s not just that Scozzafava wasn’t conservative — she was very liberal on abortion, unions and gay marriage and even left the impression she might join the Democrats once elected.

Indeed, on Sunday, the day after pulling out of the race, she endorsed Democrat Bill Owens.

“There is already a party for people who think like that,” conservative columnist George Will said on ABC’s “This Week.”

“It’s called the Democratic Party.”

Right now, the power, the energy, the momentum — and the results — are on the side of the conservative activists.

The newest incarnation of confrontational conservatism — driven more by animosity toward government and Obama than by the social passions of the 1990s — has plenty of energy and bodies to turn out big crowds at tea party events, hijack congressional town hall meetings as it did in August and defeat a GOP-establishment-backed House candidate.

It also has leaders with louder microphones than those of House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio or Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky: former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Facebook page, Rush Limbaugh and his radio show and Glenn Beck with his popular 5 p.m. slot on Fox News.

Those commentator-entrepreneurs are far better known and are considerably more influential with the conservative grass roots than the GOP’s Washington leaders — congressional Republicans such as Georgia Rep. Phil Gingrey and even Steele have both been forced to call Limbaugh to apologize after making critical statements about him to the media — yet they carry unmistakable downside risk. Not only are they unpopular with many moderate voters, but they also have histories of saying wildly impolitic things.

Make no mistake: There is a huge divide between the public rants of this activist wing and the private angst of party leaders in D.C.

Numerous GOP officials have told POLITICO they worry that the party has been hijacked by a noisy and powerful minority that will keep the GOP in a noisy and not-so-powerful minority for a long time.

It will be impossible for GOP leaders to make this case anytime soon. The trick, instead, will be to find common ground on running conservative candidates who appeal to activists but can also run campaigns not entirely predicated on the hardest edges of their conservatism.

The Virginia governor’s race, which will also be decided Tuesday, could be the prototype for this kind of compromise. Until then, Charlie Crist should get ready for a rumble.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:25:01 AM EST
Sarah Palin smoked out a traitor to principle that is now a proven traitor to party.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:25:06 AM EST
There's a lot of press warning us not to go overboard and try to kick the "moderates" out of the GOP.

BS!!! She's no moderate. She's a liberal.

We're trying to kick the *Democrats* out of the GOP.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:26:32 AM EST
With the race this close, what do you think are the chances of ACORN-registered more than the actual number of qualified voters, stuffing the ballot box?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:26:35 AM EST
I'm shocked













Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:28:27 AM EST


Well, now that Halloween is over - she decided to take off her mask.



And Newt is shocked by this!???


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:29:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mazeman:
There's a lot of press warning us not to go overboard and try to kick the "moderates" out of the GOP.

BS!!! She's no moderate. She's a liberal.

We're trying to kick the *Democrats* out of the GOP.


dITTO!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:29:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By wunbadweel:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Republicans who are pro choice, open borders pro Gay marrage, Brady bunch voters are not Republicans.


Actually, that's exactly what many of the RINOs in office are.

What they are NOT, are conservatives. And they cannot even be mentioned on the same page as libertarians.

Scuzzo is now fully outed as the liberal in RINO's clothing she has always been; no one should be surprised.



Yup, but to be fair he said Republicans. Since Republicans are no longer the party of Conservatism he could be correct. Obviously Conservatives are not for open borders or gun control, but the Democrat Lite Party sure is.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:29:32 AM EST
I want to here that POS Gingrich explain how a Republican that he supported is now supporting the Democrat.
Plus just how electing Scozzyfava would have been good for the Republican party.

The Ungrateful bitch is backing the Democrat to spite the Republican Party. She doesn't care about anything but
herself.

C'mon Newt, start splaining!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:29:49 AM EST
Scuzzyflava is indeed one angry troll!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:30:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.

Wrong.

Voting for a third-party Conservative on election day who never polled above 5% is stupidly suicidal.

Voting for a third-party Conservative who is BEATING the RINO and the Dem is the only smart thing to do.



Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:33:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.

Wrong.

Voting for a third-party Conservative on election day who never polled above 5% is stupidly suicidal.

Voting for a third-party Conservative who is BEATING the RINO and the Dem is the only smart thing to do.



Explain Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrlen then with that logic.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:33:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By Mazeman:
There's a lot of press warning us not to go overboard and try to kick the "moderates" out of the GOP.

BS!!! She's no moderate. She's a liberal.

We're trying to kick the *Democrats* out of the GOP.


dITTO!


Yea ...around 200 of them
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:37:51 AM EST
How the turncoating all went down:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29013.html
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:38:22 AM EST
Marco Rubio is one to watch here in Florida.

I'm loving Scuzziefava right now - she gives me great ammo for the people trying to convince me how great Charlie Crist is because he is the 'official endorsed' candidate of the party.

Support Marco and all true conservatives and we may actually turn this freaking mess around.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:39:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.

Wrong.

Voting for a third-party Conservative on election day who never polled above 5% is stupidly suicidal.

Voting for a third-party Conservative who is BEATING the RINO and the Dem is the only smart thing to do.





Sorry; I'm never voting for someone who I don't want to win again. I won't throw my vote away on RINOs at any level of government.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:40:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.

Wrong.

Voting for a third-party Conservative on election day who never polled above 5% is stupidly suicidal.

Voting for a third-party Conservative who is BEATING the RINO and the Dem is the only smart thing to do.




Sorry, but I disagree to a point.

Voting for a RINO who is polling ahead instead of a strong conservative 3rd party member is as big, if not bigger of a mistake.

I would rather see a D get elected then a RINO.

That way when everything goes to shit (as it always does when they are in charge), the finger of blame can be pointed in one direction and one direction only.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:43:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By Mazeman:
There's a lot of press warning us not to go overboard and try to kick the "moderates" out of the GOP.

BS!!! She's no moderate. She's a liberal.

We're trying to kick the *Democrats* out of the GOP.


dITTO!


Yea ...around 200 of them


Including the ones in Texas ???
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:48:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:49:01 AM EST by hotbiggun42]
You know what pisses me off about the whole Scozzafava thing is the fact the republican party was sooooo happy and content to run her as their candidate .Fucking A holes.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:55:47 AM EST
Sick Stinking Bitch.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:57:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:57:47 AM EST by TheGunCollector]
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
You know what pisses me off about the whole Scozzafava thing is the fact the republican party was sooooo happy and content to run her as their candidate .Fucking A holes.


I wish it was just this case.

We also have, just to name a few:

Olympia Snow
Charlie Christ
Arhald

Makes me want to puke violently.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:58:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Atomic_Ferret:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.

Wrong.

Voting for a third-party Conservative on election day who never polled above 5% is stupidly suicidal.

Voting for a third-party Conservative who is BEATING the RINO and the Dem is the only smart thing to do.




Sorry, but I disagree to a point.

Voting for a RINO who is polling ahead instead of a strong conservative 3rd party member is as big, if not bigger of a mistake.

I would rather see a D get elected then a RINO.

That way when everything goes to shit (as it always does when they are in charge), the finger of blame can be pointed in one direction and one direction only.


Check out the first part of this article.

The woman is married to a Union Boss and has never really been conservative. She almost RAN for the Democrats for this seat.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2009/07/democrats-fan-the-flames-of-sc.html

The local and national GOP fucked this up so bad I cannot believe it.

Here's the deal:

1. Fire Michael Steele. This happened on his watch, and he's a fucking RINO anyway. Replace him with Fred Thompson's super smart and highly media savy young wife. She'll be able to look to Fred for popular support, but will vibe with younger women etc.

2. Face to face interviews with every RINO in the party, starting with those sitting in and with an eye on Congress. You don't have to be homogeneous on the details of legislation you would move forward or oppose, but you need to at least be a fucking conservative to be in the party. The slogan should be "We welcome moderates, but if you're really just a Democrat we'll ask you to go join that party."

3. The religious right needs to get its own ultimatum: Folks, limited government, states rights, and fiscal accountability and as Regan would say "libertarian ideals" are at the heart of conservationism. These are matters between the government and its citizens. Abortion and gay marriage should not be national issues. Don't expect us to make them national issues.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:02:06 AM EST
Scozzafava's concession speech
I am and have always been a proud Republican. It is my hope that with my actions today, my Party will emerge stronger...


Yeah, sure.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:06:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 9:07:12 AM EST by Zaphod]
Tom Davis, former head of the National Republican Congressional Committee, said this rage against the GOP machine might feel good for disgruntled conservatives, but it could also land Republicans deep in the minority for years to come.


Yeah, because following the RINO line has done wonders for us over the past five years or so.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:07:14 AM EST
What a POS RINO.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:08:08 AM EST
This is bad news. Now the moderate Republicans in the district can vote for the Democrat. I now think Owens will win.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:08:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 9:15:19 AM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:10:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.

Wrong.

Voting for a third-party Conservative on election day who never polled above 5% is stupidly suicidal.

Voting for a third-party Conservative who is BEATING the RINO and the Dem is the only smart thing to do.





Sorry; I'm never voting for someone who I don't want to win again. I won't throw my vote away on RINOs at any level of government.

In effect, you are.

By voting for a non-viable candidate, you help assure that the worst of three evils (the one MOST diametrically opposed to your positions) gets elected.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:12:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 9:13:24 AM EST by Molotov357]

Originally Posted By SS109:
This is bad news. Now the moderate Republicans in the district can vote for the Democrat. I now think Owens will win.

Hoffman is up 6% in the polls.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:15:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 9:17:36 AM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:16:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By SS109:
This is bad news. Now the moderate Republicans in the district can vote for the Democrat. I now think Owens will win.


I don't think so. A lot of RINO's may have simply sat out the election if Scozzafava hadn't endorsed the Dem. I'm betting many will be PO'ed at her betrayal, and will vote accordingly.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:16:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By wunbadweel:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Republicans who are pro choice, open borders pro Gay marrage, Brady bunch voters are not Republicans.


Actually, that's exactly what many of the RINOs in office are.

What they are NOT, are conservatives. And they cannot even be mentioned on the same page as libertarians.

Scuzzo is now fully outed as the liberal in RINO's clothing she has always been; no one should be surprised.



I was a little bit surprised she went full bore for the dem, I figured she'd just fade away. But I'm kind of glad she outed herself as a liberal. JMO
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:17:51 AM EST
Of course she is.

You have to understand that these people vacation together and then return to fight in front of the cameras. An outsider, God forbid one who cared about the constituents, is a dire threat.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:18:44 AM EST
The RNC is so stupid. Way to pick a winner idiots. This is going to end up being a good thing inspite of the RNC strategery.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:19:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.

Wrong.

Voting for a third-party Conservative on election day who never polled above 5% is stupidly suicidal.

Voting for a third-party Conservative who is BEATING the RINO and the Dem is the only smart thing to do.





Sorry; I'm never voting for someone who I don't want to win again. I won't throw my vote away on RINOs at any level of government.

In effect, you are.

By voting for a non-viable candidate, you help assure that the worst of three evils (the one MOST diametrically opposed to your positions) gets elected.






Mac:

Will you at least agree with me that if your ONLY viable candidate with an "R" is actually more liberal than Hillary Clinton, that you may be better off losing the district and working on hearts and minds?

Do you agree that having THIS PERSON as the swing vote only fucks you up again and again and again?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:19:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Originally Posted By SS109:
This is bad news. Now the moderate Republicans in the district can vote for the Democrat. I now think Owens will win.


I don't think so. A lot of RINO's may have simply sat out the election if Scozzafava hadn't endorsed the Dem. I'm betting many will be PO'ed at her betrayal, and will vote accordingly.


Good point. Since voter turnout is what really matters in a off-off-year election, maybe only 20% of the voters will vote and hopefully 60% of the conservative vote goes for Hoffman.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:19:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Atomic_Ferret:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Suppose that we took back the House of Representatives and that THIS woman was the swing vote. Tell me how, exactly, that ends up being a good thing?


Simple: this is chess not checkers.

Don't ask me what that really means. It's just what was said on arfcom during the last election when we were supposed to vote for RINOs.

Wrong.

Voting for a third-party Conservative on election day who never polled above 5% is stupidly suicidal.

Voting for a third-party Conservative who is BEATING the RINO and the Dem is the only smart thing to do.




Sorry, but I disagree to a point.

Voting for a RINO who is polling ahead instead of a strong conservative 3rd party member is as big, if not bigger of a mistake.

I would rather see a D get elected then a RINO.

That way when everything goes to shit (as it always does when they are in charge), the finger of blame can be pointed in one direction and one direction only.


The problem is the delay between the policy implementation and the failure. FDR/New Deal and LBJ/Great Society programs are some of the worst, but free market conservatism appeared to be dead from the '30s to 1980.

The 2008 election was a problem for conservatives, because the choice was between McCain and Obama. RINO or socialist. I vote for the RINO to save my country, even if it meant possibly hurting the conservative movement.
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