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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/3/2004 9:57:42 AM EST
I know in another post you guys were saying how many cadets act like they are hi and mighty. For the most part most are good guys, and are willing to help you out if you are new to the program.

But then you have your share of "kids" who have no real military experience yet think they are already a officer. Just the thought of one of them Telling some SSG who has been in for 10 year that he needs to salute him and call him sir pisses me off. I cringe when I think of what would happen if they told an NCO to get a attention when they talk with them...
Some seem to take it too serious, and if they get to a real unit and treat their guys like shit its not going to be pretty.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:00:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:04:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I was an NCO in the Army - I used to smoke the dog hell out of disrespectful cadets.




get em while you can
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:05:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 10:06:31 AM EST by magnum_99]

Originally Posted By Mak762:
I know in another post you guys were saying how many cadets act like they are hi and mighty. For the most part most are good guys, and are willing to help you out if you are new to the program.

But then you have your share of "kids" who have no real military experience yet think they are already a officer. Just the thought of one of them Telling some SSG who has been in for 10 year that he needs to salute him and call him sir pisses me off. I cringe when I think of what would happen if they told an NCO to get a attention when they talk with them...
Some seem to take it too serious, and if they get to a real unit and treat their guys like shit its not going to be pretty.



Yes, the cadets and butter bars should show the NCO's and other soldiers respect. And a missed salute here or there might be able to be forgiven in the name of "getting the mission accomplished."

By the same token, performing ALL of your duties in a military manner means just that, and the NCO's and other troops SHOULD be saluting the officers, and calling them sir.

It's not just knowing your MOS that makes you a good soldier.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:18:52 AM EST
Junior officers are just so easy to fuck with tho... And if word gets around the NCO's that you're a dick - well, the military won't look like much of a career choice after a while...
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:19:40 AM EST
As an NCO, I always liked having young second lieutenants who had the balls to insist on the salute that they deserved.
The last thing you want, is the opposite type of officer....
The guy who is afraid of confrontations.

I used to always say:

"If you don't say something, when someone blows off giving you a salute... you didn't deserve it, anyhow."

You can always tell when you're getting "gaffed off'.
You see that they see you, out of the corner of their eye, but hope you didn't see, because they want to pretend THEY didn't see YOU.
We've all done it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:26:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Junior officers are just so easy to fuck with tho... And if word gets around the NCO's that you're a dick - well, the military won't look like much of a career choice after a while...



LOL, yep.

And god forbid he went to airborne over the summer, ohh shit you might as well put the whole company under his command!
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:27:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:
I know in another post you guys were saying how many cadets act like they are hi and mighty. For the most part most are good guys, and are willing to help you out if you are new to the program.

But then you have your share of "kids" who have no real military experience yet think they are already a officer. Just the thought of one of them Telling some SSG who has been in for 10 year that he needs to salute him and call him sir pisses me off. I cringe when I think of what would happen if they told an NCO to get a attention when they talk with them...
Some seem to take it too serious, and if they get to a real unit and treat their guys like shit its not going to be pretty.



reminds me of the following story from John Derbyshire:

olimu.com/Photographs/BackPages/FrimleyPark.htm


The fellow in the center of the very back row was our company sergeant-major, an old soldier who knew absolutely everything--every weapon, every piece of equipment, every word of command, every drill (even "pile arms"). As officers already commissioned, we technically outranked him, but knowing how ridiculous this was, one of us asked him: "Sar'-major, how does this work? Do we call you 'Sir'? Or do you call us 'Sir'? Or what?" He gave a memorable reply: "Son, I call you 'Sir,' and you call me 'Sir.' Difference is, you mean it, and I don't."
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:33:48 AM EST
yep. Know your shit before you talk shit. Ill trust a E-4 with 4 years before I trust a dot or a butter bar fresh out of ROTC with no expierence other than school
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:35:39 AM EST
You're supposed to salute midshipmen/cadets/ROTC's?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:39:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 10:39:48 AM EST by DeadSled]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
You're supposed to salute midshipmen/cadets/ROTC's?



I allways said "hey dot get your ass over here"
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:39:07 AM EST
When I was a Cadet at Texas A&M, we were told in no uncertain terms that the NCOs ran the military. We did our best with the training we received, but we learned early on that we really didn't know shit compared with any decent NCO with even just a little experience.

NCO retention is more important than officer retention. Shit, 2nds can be had by the bus load at the drop of a hat. It takes intelligence, dedication, and experience to make a good NCO.

Now that I have been in business for nearly 25 years, I have learned that the best executive or salesman isn't worth anything if the warehouse manager, the office manager, and the shipping manager aren't good and experienced. They are the civilian version of the NCO.

BTW, my Dad was a career NCO.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:41:20 AM EST
Yup, sure have. On the opposite end we used to screw with the new O's. We'd string out when walking so they had to return the salute to all of us. When I was on active duty on deployments in the Navy, they'd bring a few dozen cadets on board and assign them to NCO's they thought were squared away. How I kept getting them is still a mystery, but man was it fun.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:41:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:
LOL, yep.

And god forbid he went to airborne over the summer, ohh shit you might as well put the whole company under his command!



Yeah - I remember having one of those as a classmate when I was in college. He had a giant "airborne" sticker on his car, and was always talking tough and acting like he was some grizzled veteran of many wars

I don't think most of my classmates even knew that I had already served BEFORE I started college, and had been an infantry platoon commander (as well as an NCO before I went to officer's training).
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:57:55 AM EST
As a Second Class in charge of the line I had the pleasure of getting 4 Midshipmen for a day during their Plebe summer.
I assigned each of them to an Airman, they had them taking fuel samples, servicing engines, cleaning aircraft, inspecting tiedown chains.

The next day they I had fam flights with them.
They spent one flight with me, so I played NATOPS trivial pursuit with them.
They really seemed to enjoy being abused by me and the guys.

A couple months later the squadron got a letter from the Naval Academy thanking us for putting up with the Midshipmen. I was mentioned by name in the letter.


Originally Posted By mkgunz:
Yup, sure have. On the opposite end we used to screw with the new O's. We'd string out when walking so they had to return the salute to all of us. When I was on active duty on deployments in the Navy, they'd bring a few dozen cadets on board and assign them to NCO's they thought were squared away. How I kept getting them is still a mystery, but man was it fun.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 12:25:29 PM EST
Cadets don't get saluted whether they are ROTC, USMA, USNA, USAFA or whatever. If they insist on a salute, smoke them like a cheap cigar. You do, however, call them sir.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 12:28:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 12:28:36 PM EST by Drakich]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Mak762:
LOL, yep.

And god forbid he went to airborne over the summer, ohh shit you might as well put the whole company under his command!



Yeah - I remember having one of those as a classmate when I was in college. He had a giant "airborne" sticker on his car, and was always talking tough and acting like he was some grizzled veteran of many wars

I don't think most of my classmates even knew that I had already served BEFORE I started college, and had been an infantry platoon commander (as well as an NCO before I went to officer's training).



But does the Dutch army really count? ;-)
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 12:34:24 PM EST
When I was a Cadet at Texas A&M, we were told in no uncertain terms that the NCOs ran the military. We did our best with the training we received, but we learned early on that we really didn't know shit compared with any decent NCO with even just a little experience.

NCO retention is more important than officer retention. Shit, 2nds can be had by the bus load at the drop of a hat. It takes intelligence, dedication, and experience to make a good NCO.

Now that I have been in business for nearly 25 years, I have learned that the best executive or salesman isn't worth anything if the warehouse manager, the office manager, and the shipping manager aren't good and experienced. They are the civilian version of the NCO.


Sounds like you were a good officer and understand how the military and the world work. As a career NCO, I thank you for your statements
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 12:39:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 12:41:25 PM EST
We had some hot female "Dot" SMPs in my last unit. I wouldn't give you a bucket of cold piss for most of the dots I ever met, in the military sense, though.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 12:46:38 PM EST
since Iraq was a "garrision" and a "salute zone" Id occasioinaly pop a saluite to the Os I'd love it they see me comming and wait for it wait for it and at the last minute spring a salute. even more fun when they have something in their right hand.
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