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Posted: 10/17/2004 11:23:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 11:27:12 AM EST by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:36:44 AM EST
agreed the kid was stupid, but why did your dog perceive some little kid as a 'threat'?
i had 2 dalmations, who are extremely protective of their owners, but they always could tell the difference b/w children and people trying to break into our yard......
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:39:35 AM EST
To put it simply.....civilization is DEvolving. Gene pool has become polluted and diluted.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:39:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 11:42:38 AM EST by bulldog1967]

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
agreed the kid was stupid, but why did your dog perceive some little kid as a 'threat'?
i had 2 dalmations, who are extremely protective of their owners, but they always could tell the difference b/w children and people trying to break into our yard......



Because a GOOD dog knows when to defend its territory. Period.

ETA I have a Rottie and a Shepherd mix..

All of the kids know them by name and love them to death.

If ANY of these kids came screaming into my (fenced) back yard in an uncontoleed manner, the rottie would (most likely) leave them alone.

the shepherd would nip them, becasue that's how shepherds keep sheep in line. Its in their DNA.

Its the KIDS who need leashes.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:41:49 AM EST
I saw a couple of little kids poke and bother a tethered dog with a stick. The kids father told them to leave the dog alone. The dog nipped one of the kids. He ran crying to his dad. The dad looked at the kid and said he got what he deserved. If he left it alone he would not have bit him. The owner didnt know what say. At least this parent was reasonable. The kid learned a painful lesson. He will use a longer stick next time!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:42:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:42:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 11:46:40 AM EST by Boom_Stick]

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
agreed the kid was stupid, but why did your dog perceive some little kid as a 'threat'?



You'd have to be a dog-mind reader to know that one. Maybe the dog sensed the kid was a dumbass and did it to teach him a lesson.

Regardless, I was taught as a young'in not to pet strange dogs OR cats. The cat thing was ringworm related.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:43:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:49:02 AM EST
Its been in my experience that Dalmations are much more aggressive then even shepards. But a running kid is the size of a prey animal and most dogs will instinctually chase and bite it. Thats why sometimes its better to walk and not run. Running brings out bad things in predatory animals.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:49:22 AM EST
Who the fuck lets their 6-8 y.o. alone on the streets unattended??

SGatr15
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 12:07:24 PM EST
That 6-8 yr. old will likely be a victim to a cunning pedophile, running up to an unfamiliar residence yelling "candy!, candy! "
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 12:16:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 12:18:55 PM EST by ED_P]
I use the "BEWARE OF DOG" sign as an example of how society has changed.

When I was a kid in the 60's & 70's, if you ventured into a yard with "BEWARE OF DOG"
signs all over it, and you got bit, you were an idiot- afterall, there were signs all over.

Nowadays, if a kid gets bit in yard with "BEWARE OF DOG" signs, his parents lawyer
submits pictures, proving you knew the dog was dangerous, but you didn't properly control it.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 12:42:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Children are now taught that animals are like cartoons. They are cute and cuddly and won't harm them. Animals are good and human are bad. All animals are like bambi. Except they are not being told the truth that bambi will kick your ass if it gets a chance. Ask the poor guy who raised deer and got in a cage with a buck in rut. Rectum, hell....it kill'em.



Exactly right!

I have raised farm animals, everything from chickens to very aggressive bulls. I can't count the times kids have chased the chickens, goats, horses, and calves with sticks and such. Tormented the farm dogs as well. What many parents don't realize is that animals are not PC and don't know the rules. These folks do not teach their spoiled brats to respect other people and god's creatures.

So these kids go and treat animals like cartoon characters,(afterall, that is their only source of training on the subject), and the kid gets bad hurt or killed.

A 100 lb dog can easily kill an adult, let alone, a child. Same with a deer, bear, goat, and calf.

If anyone, child or adult, ever asks if "that dog bites", my reply is "All Dogs Bite, and anyone who tells you different is lying".

BTW, there is a saying in the horse community."It is the gentle ones that will hurt you".
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 1:21:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:44:52 PM EST
Ok, we have this same problem with our 160 lb Saint Bernard..

Kid runs up and thinks Fluffy Doggie!! and then my Saint wants to play, but guess what! My dog is going to work over some little kid because it just does not understand the weight difference. This pisses me off and It happens all the time.

If your going to play with an animal that has 2.5 times the weight of you and a wallnut sized brain, then your going to get hurt regardless of the dogs disposition!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:52:19 PM EST
I was attacked by a dog when I was in the 5th grade. The dog was ours, it was a English Shepherd, about a year and a half old.

He tore my face all to heck, I even had bite wounds through my cheeks, and several molars got knocked out, or bit out.

Dont know why he did it, I in no way provoked the dog, I was watching t.v laying on the floor, and the dog was laying next to me, when all of a sudden BAM, he attacked.

My parents were there, saw the whole thing, and were just as puzzled as I was.

Before that he had never even showed aggression towards anyone at all.

We did not keep him long after that.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:54:40 PM EST

It is not only kids...I had a moron
moment earlier this year. I was at
a gas station filling up and a lab
was in the car next to me. Stupid me
went to pet said dog - middle finger
got chomped. Lots of blood but no
real damage. That little bit of idiocy
cost me $285 in the emergency
room and a nice, heathly scar.



The last thing that I was going to
do, however, is sue the dog's owner
for my own stupidity.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:18:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Who the fuck lets their 6-8 y.o. alone on the streets unattended??

SGatr15




He was with 2 twelve year olds.



Yeah...they make such good guardians...
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:35:00 PM EST
Both of my dogs arent allowed to bite human, I have made sure they know humans rule and they dont. The dog is a great deterent against those who might rob, or threaten another human but I dont need a lawsuit or one of my kids getting bit...period.

If my Heeler or border collie ever bit a human Id take it out back and shoot it. I love both of them but that is just the way it is in my house.

Now cats on the other hand......they taste just like chicken to a border collie.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:58:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:05:58 PM EST
You don't necessarily have to lay all the blame on the kids... where are the parents of some 6-8 year old kid that is roaming the block. My grandfather drove a cement truck for 5 years and one day some negligent, irresponsible, poor excuse of a parent allowed their INFANT to run out in the middle of the street and my grandfather hit it. Kids will be kids, that's why parents are supposed to be parents!!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:13:51 PM EST
The kid is to blame for the immediate action, but his parents are morons for not teaching him basic safety rules and such. I knew damn well enough as a child, and now as an owner of a lab and a doberman that dogs are unpredictable when you don't know them. My dogs are very protective of my family and of me. Unfortunately, you are correct. If your dog had bitten the kid, some John Edwards type trial lawyer would have had your ass for dinner. After all, why do you need a 80+ pound dog to protect you from a 7 year old?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:17:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 7:18:35 PM EST by GrH_Revelation]
"After all, why do you need an 80+ pound dog to protect your from a 7 year old?"

Why do people go hunting with fucking Arm-Zookas? People like the over-kill factor.

"Now what I'm gonna do right here, ya see... is sit real comfortable like up here in this tree stand, and when I see one a dem lil deers running around down there I'm gonna go, *clickity clack clickity clack* wif my deer antlers ya see. And then when they stop, KABLOWEE, I'm gonna put a hole the size of Texas through his ass 'cus I ain't near the marksman that I ougta be!"

Sorry, had to say it... but don't worry... I'm all for hunting
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:33:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 6172crew:
Both of my dogs arent allowed to bite human, I have made sure they know humans rule and they dont. The dog is a great deterent against those who might rob, or threaten another human but I dont need a lawsuit or one of my kids getting bit...period.

If my Heeler or border collie ever bit a human Id take it out back and shoot it. I love both of them but that is just the way it is in my house.

Now cats on the other hand......they taste just like chicken to a border collie.




My dogs have been specifically trained to search for and attack humans who do NOT belong in my home. That training and mentality extends somewhat to the property.

I couldn't conceive of killing a dog who followed it's natural instinct of protecting it's home and family. You should get a cat, you don't respect a dogs instincts or repay it's loyalties.




Sounds like your the one that needs a cat, You trained your dog to eat kids then say the kid is stupid, I will let you in on a secret, Kidsare stupid! they do dumb stuff and as an adult you and your dog dont get the pass. So when it happens that a kid gets mauled I will read the story and think "not bad dog, bad owner"

You take the responsablility as a owner of a trained dog and it is on you...not some dumb ass kid. If you think your dog is so smart why not train it to defend you in court.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:37:07 PM EST
Most dogs just dont like me
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:41:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:42:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By ursus:
To put it simply.....civilization is DEvolving. Gene pool has become polluted and diluted.



I have seen articles along those lines. People are surviving defects and diseases and passing on their defective genes to their offspring. The pressure is to develop people who depend on technology and services to survive.

Is this a part of our "moral obligation" to help each other? The strong and able among us live to serve the weak and frail?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:18:20 PM EST
Kids have been running up to dogs and yelling the equivalent of "doggie" for generations. I think there is more to it than that.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:27:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By TZLVredmist:
Ok, we have this same problem with our 160 lb Saint Bernard..

Kid runs up and thinks Fluffy Doggie!! and then my Saint wants to play, but guess what! My dog is going to work over some little kid because it just does not understand the weight difference. This pisses me off and It happens all the time.

If your going to play with an animal that has 2.5 times the weight of you and a wallnut sized brain, then your going to get hurt regardless of the dogs disposition!




I am glad I am not the only one with problems like that. My St. Bernard will smack his paws at kids just knock them down and then sit on them LOL.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:09:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Who the fuck lets their 6-8 y.o. alone on the streets unattended??

SGatr15



Ummm.....Everyone in my neighborhood.

I was driving down my street one time when some idiot kid INTENTIONALLY jumped out in front of me. I swerved to miss him (barely) and then caught him laughing with his buddies in my rear view mirror as I tried to process what had just happened.

He and his buddies were having a good laugh. Until I slammed the brakes and hand brake, stomped the gas and spun that car around and punched it in his direction. I chased their little butts all over that neighborhood.

They just about sh*t themselves for fear, which is a darn good thing, because I was indeed ready to kill them had I cornered them long enough to get out of the car and catch them. When I was driving through someone's yard chasing them, I figured that I might be a little over the line. So I relented.

Those kids never did that again.

I have owned and dealt with many dogs and have learned to "speak" dog pretty well. I can tell what kind of mood the critter is in, and I can make them submit pretty easily. This is because I know how to make a dog cower, and I also know when to leave one alone. I have only been bitten twice, and on both occasions I beat the living crap out of the dog that bit me. They never again even dared to look me in the eye.

Kids, unfortunately, do not know or respect dogs as potentially harmful creatures. Many dog owners are also at fault because they do not TRAIN their dogs properly. A dog is like a child in that if left to their own devices they will do whatever feels good at the moment. If there is no discipline, no control on the part of the human, then the dogs will be out of control.

When I was a kid I didn't go into other people's yards except by express invitation. I still don't.

Kids and dogs are not a good mix if the situation is not handled properly. My dogs are not often around kids, but one of them was carried around by a little kid for the first 6 months of his life. He does very well with kids and loves nothing more than playing with them. My other dog is stand-offish of them because he has never dealt with kids, but he does not bite.

But I have spent great time and effort taking the bite instinct out of them. They do not respond to people with teeth because doing so will get the snot kicked out of them.

If you have a dog that is a real guard dog (mine are small little companion dogs, partially because of living concerns and partially because they can't do as much damage as a 120 pound rotty...) then they WILL respond to certain stimulus with biting.

The answer here is fences on your property and leashes on your dog. I don't expect better parenting to solve many of our problems....
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:11:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By ursus:
To put it simply.....civilization is DEvolving. Gene pool has become polluted and diluted.



Agreed, someone needs to show up with some chlorine
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:04:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
agreed the kid was stupid, but why did your dog perceive some little kid as a 'threat'?
i had 2 dalmations, who are extremely protective of their owners, but they always could tell the difference b/w children and people trying to break into our yard......



I've got to ask the same question.

Is your dog a pet or a security device?

If it is a pet then it should be trained to be people friendly. If it is kept for security, then it needs to be positively controlled, just as wel must positively control our other weapons.

I fully support your right to own a dog for security reasons, but at the same time, You ARE responsible for the actions of your dog, and if that dog should attack some little kid who through an overabundance of enthusiasm, runs up your driveway to see your dog, it is YOUR fault, not the child's or its parents.

The basic problem with using dogs as security devices is that they lack anything like a refined system of judgement. Their world is narrowed down to territorialism, and anything that doesn't belong in their territory is a threat to be attacked and killed. Such an animal cannot responsibly be left to its own devices. Fencing it in, and fencing out unintentional or ignorant intruders also becomes your responsibility.

Yeah, the kid's parent should have had him or her on a shorter leash and should have trained him or her better, but kids don't always (often) do what their parents tell them to, people learn best from their own mistakes (which is why succeeding generations continue to make the same mistakes) so kids will often ignore their parents warnings. The bottom line is that you cannot control the kid, so you need to control the dog...which you did, and be aware that its territorial nature puts anyone entering your property at risk should the dog be free and unrestricted.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:10:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Children are now taught that animals are like cartoons. They are cute and cuddly and won't harm them. Animals are good and human are bad. All animals are like bambi. Except they are not being told the truth that bambi will kick your ass if it gets a chance. Ask the poor guy who raised deer and got in a cage with a buck in rut. Rectum, hell....it kill'em.



I agree with that one! I tried to teach my GF's 8 year old (a real smart ass brat) about dogs and that, until you know them you shouldn't just approach them unless the owner gives you permission. Of course, she TOLD me that only bad dogs bite. She has an idea about animals that is totally out of touch with reality.

Thank God that they moved out last week!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:19:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 4:20:04 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:45:18 AM EST
I have been walking my dogs on a leash and adults come over and try and shove their hands in my dog's faces. AFTER I warned them not to.

They then lecture me on how terrible it is that I have dogs that "can bite".

My response: If it has teeth, it can bite. If you provoke it, it will bite, and you WILL deserve it
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:51:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Who the fuck lets their 6-8 y.o. alone on the streets unattended??

SGatr15



Ummm.....Everyone in my neighborhood.

I was driving down my street one time when some idiot kid INTENTIONALLY jumped out in front of me. I swerved to miss him (barely) and then caught him laughing with his buddies in my rear view mirror as I tried to process what had just happened.

He and his buddies were having a good laugh. Until I slammed the brakes and hand brake, stomped the gas and spun that car around and punched it in his direction. I chased their little butts all over that neighborhood.

They just about sh*t themselves for fear, which is a darn good thing, because I was indeed ready to kill them had I cornered them long enough to get out of the car and catch them. When I was driving through someone's yard chasing them, I figured that I might be a little over the line. So I relented.

Those kids never did that again.

I have owned and dealt with many dogs and have learned to "speak" dog pretty well. I can tell what kind of mood the critter is in, and I can make them submit pretty easily. This is because I know how to make a dog cower, and I also know when to leave one alone. I have only been bitten twice, and on both occasions I beat the living crap out of the dog that bit me. They never again even dared to look me in the eye.

Kids, unfortunately, do not know or respect dogs as potentially harmful creatures. Many dog owners are also at fault because they do not TRAIN their dogs properly. A dog is like a child in that if left to their own devices they will do whatever feels good at the moment. If there is no discipline, no control on the part of the human, then the dogs will be out of control.

When I was a kid I didn't go into other people's yards except by express invitation. I still don't.

Kids and dogs are not a good mix if the situation is not handled properly. My dogs are not often around kids, but one of them was carried around by a little kid for the first 6 months of his life. He does very well with kids and loves nothing more than playing with them. My other dog is stand-offish of them because he has never dealt with kids, but he does not bite.

But I have spent great time and effort taking the bite instinct out of them. They do not respond to people with teeth because doing so will get the snot kicked out of them.

If you have a dog that is a real guard dog (mine are small little companion dogs, partially because of living concerns and partially because they can't do as much damage as a 120 pound rotty...) then they WILL respond to certain stimulus with biting.

The answer here is fences on your property and leashes on your dog. I don't expect better parenting to solve many of our problems....



The hood on my car is f*8*cked up right now, I was driving down the street and stopped at a red light. A kid on a skateboard came along and skidded across the car where the hood meets the bumper.

This was my first day in Connecticut on holiday.

The cops didn't even give a shit, and if I put it through insurance, my premiums go up.

Now I'm not an old fart - I'm 22 - and Canadian to boot. But there is just some SHIT YOU DON'T DO.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:00:20 AM EST
Its the same thing where I live. My neighborhood is filled with kids. And my german sheppards will stay sitting by my side if I give the order to, but the sometimes some stupid kid will see my dogs (which isnt very hard they are pretty big) and come running towards them to pet them, and as soon as that kid enters the yard they start barking and carrying on, and the kids never stop!!! Kids are just getting dumber and dumber.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:01:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:46:53 AM EST
Dude, you may be asking a little much of an 8 year old's thought process. Having said that, the PARENTS have the responsibility to teach the kid that not all dogs are friendly, and that he should never approach an unknown dog (or any animal for that matter). Most kids like animals, 'til they find out the hard way that teeth and claws aren't there only for show.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:29:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:31:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 8:56:20 AM EST by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:29:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Yep. It's always the kid's fault.

No doubt about it.

It has nothing with anyone owning a dog they 'can barely control' in a residential area populated by lots and lots of kids.

That must be it.

Eric The(Facetious)Hun





No no... you're right.


It's always the ev1l stupid dogs. Pit bulls and Rottweilers especially. We know this because the media always tells us so!



(EquallyFacetious)napalm
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:53:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
agreed the kid was stupid, but why did your dog perceive some little kid as a 'threat'?
i had 2 dalmations, who are extremely protective of their owners, but they always could tell the difference b/w children and people trying to break into our yard......



+1

you should get your dog out into more situations, it's called socialization. either that or train it better so you don't have it struggling at the end of the leash.

get some schutzhund training- the main thing they teach is obedience and how NOT to bite

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:09:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:13:13 AM EST
I agree... Kids are morons when it comes to dogs.

Many years ago my parents were forced to give away our Irish Setter because he bit one of the neighborhood kids. Turns out the kid walked through our back yard and saw a bunch of bees swarming around the dogs face (we had a nest in a crack in the foundation of our garage). The kid figures out he'll help the dog out (dog is tied to a run), walks over and SMACKS THE DOG IN THE FACE! The dog grabs the kid by the wrist and then the shoulder before another neighbor hears the kid screaming and pulls the dog off.

We take our dog to the vet who then tells us that there are at least a dozen bee stings on the dogs face. He figures the dog was already in pain and after the kid smacked him he went into a defensive mode.

End of the story - the kid's parents threaten to sue my parents (even though he technically assaulted the dog and was trespassing) so they give our dog away while I'm at camp.

Moral of the story - don't worry about my dog, keep track of your idiot kid.

My $0.02.

M590man
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:33:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

I think a unknown kid sprinting up the driveway screaming "Doggie" would initiate and aggressive response in 95% of German Sheppards. Dalmations are a different breed altogether. It is like comparing Labs to Rotties. If I had a lab it probably would have rolled over for a belly rub. If it had been a Rottie I'd probably still be trying to get the dumbass kids ass out of it's mouth.




"Dalmations are a different breed altogether" Well Duh!

actually like ARDOC said dalmations were for a significant time period the highest ranked biters.

I think this is a real disservice to german shepards. you are saying they have no discrimination.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:34:42 AM EST
I have two American Bulldogs and like most of you I am shocked at the number of people ( kids included) that will run up and try to pet my dogs. What are they thinking??? Luckily, the dogs are well trained and I have never had an incident, but I know the possibility is always there. A dog's instinct is to protect against any percieved danger and a stranger is just that, a percieved danger until proven otherwise.

I have also read that dogs think of kids as competion because of their size and their first instinct is to show the new pup (kids) their place in the pack, which is usually behind them. To do this they must dominate the new pup, usually by aggresive tactics. It is intensified if the new pups (kids) instigate the aggression (i.e. throwing things, poking with sticks, yelling, etc.)
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:41:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 9:47:03 AM EST by danonly]

Originally Posted By icemanat95:
I've got to ask the same question.

If it is kept for security, then it needs to be positively controlled, just as wel must positively control our other weapons.

I fully support your right to own a dog for security reasons, but at the same time, You ARE responsible for the actions of your dog, and if that dog should attack some little kid who through an overabundance of enthusiasm, runs up your driveway to see your dog, it is YOUR fault, not the child's or its parents.


i agree. we are not allowed to shoot young kids that run up to our front door yelling "i'm gonna get you!" it does sound like SA had his dog under control (barely), so good for him.


The basic problem with using dogs as security devices is that they lack anything like a refined system of judgement. Their world is narrowed down to territorialism, and anything that doesn't belong in their territory is a threat to be attacked and killed. Such an animal cannot responsibly be left to its own devices. Fencing it in, and fencing out unintentional or ignorant intruders also becomes your responsibility.




I do not agree- well trained dogs are able to discriminate and stop attacking when certain conditions are met.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:17:05 AM EST
As a LEO in Wi all dog bites that are taken to the hospital are manditory to report it to the LE agency the bite occured in. Cats to for that matter. Almost all cases it was the childs fault for the bit. Either messing with a dog that belonged to someone else or antagonizing it till it bit. All the times that I was told nothing was done to provoke it was BS just couldn't prove it. Just some real world ezperiance to back up this thread. RnR
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:27:25 AM EST
OMETZ - That's the problem... you're Canadian.

BTW:If you're every back around any familiar Canadian parts, tell them we want them to take Shania back!!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:37:20 AM EST
I could have told you this years ago. children do far more to provke dogs bites or agression than the dogs do, but it's simple, the children have rights, the dogs don't, and the dogs will get the blame almost 100% of the time.
That said, it doesn't stop with children either.
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