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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 12/1/2012 1:10:47 PM EDT
On 30 Nov 1939,  The USSR invaded the country of Finland. As I was cleaning my Mosin 91/30 and my Finn M27 this morning,  I couldn't help but wonder if they faced off against each other across the cold damp forests of Finland...

I love history and collecting Milsurp because of the unknown and untold stories that these weapons hold inside.

If you are remotely interested in history,  the war between USSR and Finland during the Winter war,  the Continuation war and then the war between Germany and Finland in the Lapland war is really interesting.  The Finns were such awesome fighters.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Link Posted: 12/1/2012 4:14:01 PM EDT
Yes we were!  I am 1/2 Finnish, and my Finnish side Grandparents always talked about Russia with hate and contempt.  I grew up with the mindset that Russia was the enemy of the world.  The Cold War didn't help.
Link Posted: 12/2/2012 11:13:06 AM EDT
I used to work with a lady from Finland and she hated the Russians with such passion it was scary!
Link Posted: 12/2/2012 2:18:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2012 2:24:08 PM EDT by hemiman]
Always thought it was a dick move for Finland, who fought alongside Germany against Communist Russia, to eventually side with the Bolsheviks and turn on their fellow allies who they fought side by side with, just to save their own skins....

Owell...

Simo Hayha is one of my heroes though...
Link Posted: 12/2/2012 4:09:48 PM EDT
Simo was a serious badass that is for sure!  The Finn's stopped the Russians cold!  No pun intended.  The politics of the time were very convoluted!
Link Posted: 12/2/2012 9:20:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2012 8:40:36 AM EDT
Talvisota ,you bet!  I own that movie!
Link Posted: 12/4/2012 10:07:29 AM EDT
A quote (probably a joke, but who knows) from Gen. Adolf Ehrnrooth's  visit to England in the 1970's.

A British high ranking officer inquired: - "What is the strength of Soviet troops in Finland?"
- "A few hundred thousand," answered Gen. Ehrnrooth.
- "And where they are stationed?" Persisted the Brit
- "Approximately two meters deep all along the border," said the good old General.

On a serious note, those were desperate times and we (the Finns) need to thank Mr. Stalin for "cleaning" up his army just before the Winter War broke.

Link Posted: 12/4/2012 10:12:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Always thought it was a dick move for Finland, who fought alongside Germany against Communist Russia, to eventually side with the Bolsheviks and turn on their fellow allies who they fought side by side with, just to save their own skins....

Owell...

Simo Hayha is one of my heroes though...


A dick move? Many Finns thought so and I suppose still do.
However, that dick move was absolutely necessary for Finland in order to at least try and stay independent at the time when the Lend Lease powered Soviet army was raising hell all over Eastern Europe.
Link Posted: 12/4/2012 10:32:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2012 10:35:56 AM EDT by hemiman]
Originally Posted By kalju:
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Always thought it was a dick move for Finland, who fought alongside Germany against Communist Russia, to eventually side with the Bolsheviks and turn on their fellow allies who they fought side by side with, just to save their own skins....

Owell...

Simo Hayha is one of my heroes though...


A dick move? Many Finns thought so and I suppose still do.
However, that dick move was absolutely necessary for Finland in order to at least try and stay independent at the time when the Lend Lease powered Soviet army was raising hell all over Eastern Europe.


I mean I totally understand all of that...But still....to switch sides just to save your own skin and then to Attack the men who you fought side by side with, who ALSO supplied you with Arms and equipment just because the outlook was grim?  And to side with a country you were fighting against BEFORE?

.....But i guess it saved the Finns from being massacred by that POS Stalin....

and Damn us for ever being associated with and negotiating with such an Evil man as Stalin....
Link Posted: 12/4/2012 10:38:58 AM EDT
Allies? I have a .30 Luger that was imported from Finland. The story is the Germans shipped the .30 commercial Lugers to their Finnish allies to help them against the Soviets. The pistol doesn't have any German military markings.

Anyone remember the game Squad Leader? I loved playing the Russian V. Finn scenarios. Reindeer sleds and everything. Molotovs away.
Link Posted: 12/4/2012 2:14:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2012 2:15:35 PM EDT by dkstg44]
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Originally Posted By kalju:
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Always thought it was a dick move for Finland, who fought alongside Germany against Communist Russia, to eventually side with the Bolsheviks and turn on their fellow allies who they fought side by side with, just to save their own skins....

Owell...

Simo Hayha is one of my heroes though...


A dick move? Many Finns thought so and I suppose still do.
However, that dick move was absolutely necessary for Finland in order to at least try and stay independent at the time when the Lend Lease powered Soviet army was raising hell all over Eastern Europe.


I mean I totally understand all of that...But still....to switch sides just to save your own skin and then to Attack the men who you fought side by side with, who ALSO supplied you with Arms and equipment just because the outlook was grim?  And to side with a country you were fighting against BEFORE?

.....But i guess it saved the Finns from being massacred by that POS Stalin....

and Damn us for ever being associated with and negotiating with such an Evil man as Stalin....


The Lapland War

http://rajajoki.com/lapland.htm
Link Posted: 12/4/2012 2:35:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dkstg44:
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Originally Posted By kalju:
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Always thought it was a dick move for Finland, who fought alongside Germany against Communist Russia, to eventually side with the Bolsheviks and turn on their fellow allies who they fought side by side with, just to save their own skins....

Owell...

Simo Hayha is one of my heroes though...


A dick move? Many Finns thought so and I suppose still do.
However, that dick move was absolutely necessary for Finland in order to at least try and stay independent at the time when the Lend Lease powered Soviet army was raising hell all over Eastern Europe.


I mean I totally understand all of that...But still....to switch sides just to save your own skin and then to Attack the men who you fought side by side with, who ALSO supplied you with Arms and equipment just because the outlook was grim?  And to side with a country you were fighting against BEFORE?

.....But i guess it saved the Finns from being massacred by that POS Stalin....

and Damn us for ever being associated with and negotiating with such an Evil man as Stalin....


The Lapland War

http://rajajoki.com/lapland.htm


+1...Shitty shit...



Link Posted: 12/23/2012 3:21:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By axl:
Talvisota

Does anyone know where I can find an English version of this movie?
Link Posted: 12/23/2012 8:59:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BB42924:
Originally Posted By axl:
Talvisota

Does anyone know where I can find an English version of this movie?



This should be it:
Talvisota
Link Posted: 12/24/2012 3:17:54 AM EDT
Thanks alot!
Link Posted: 12/24/2012 9:31:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BB42924:
Thanks alot!


Welcome - here's another good one

Link Posted: 12/24/2012 9:35:31 PM EDT
And another:

Tali-Ihantala 1944

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9IEQYlpFlQ
Link Posted: 1/1/2013 1:39:39 PM EDT
thanks Axl
Link Posted: 1/2/2013 3:15:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kalju:
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Always thought it was a dick move for Finland, who fought alongside Germany against Communist Russia, to eventually side with the Bolsheviks and turn on their fellow allies who they fought side by side with, just to save their own skins....

Owell...

Simo Hayha is one of my heroes though...


A dick move? Many Finns thought so and I suppose still do.
However, that dick move was absolutely necessary for Finland in order to at least try and stay independent at the time when the Lend Lease powered Soviet army was raising hell all over Eastern Europe.


If we were to stand around throwing stones over dick moves made in WWII, we would all be standing in houses made of shattered glass.
The "allies" or unallied co-belligerents they turned on were part of the war machine which started the whole war and rose hell over east AND west Europe. Not to mention the Holocaust.
Finland fought two of history's greatest monsters in an unfortunate order.
Link Posted: 1/9/2013 7:13:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2013 6:43:39 AM EDT
We were not allies, at least technically. Nazi Germany and Finland never signed a formal pact and during the Winter War Finland leaned more to the west - and had sympathy, but no actual help.
Link Posted: 1/15/2013 9:43:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2013 9:49:50 AM EDT by hemiman]
Originally Posted By kalju:
We were not allies, at least technically. Nazi Germany and Finland never signed a formal pact and during the Winter War Finland leaned more to the west - and had sympathy, but no actual help.


Wow........

How convenient just to mention the "Winter War" ....not the "Continuation War" or the continuation of the Winter war.....Where yes Finland did try to receive help from the west, but turned to Germany for MILITARY AID....Up to the start of Barbarossa, German troops were sent to Finland, (Lapland mostly)

Geat Britain actually declared war on FINLAND in 1941....and VISE VERSA

Granted Finland was not the aggressor, nor did it start the Winter War, but to say that they DID NOT receive any actual Help, only sympathy from Germany???? pleaaassseeee!!!!!!!!

I guess all those German Soldiers and German Weapons never happened or showed up, along with Finnish volunteers in the Waffen SS.

Those weapons seemed to work just fine when they were fired BACK at the same German Army that helped fend off Russia and Bolshevism..
Link Posted: 1/16/2013 3:20:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Originally Posted By kalju:
We were not allies, at least technically. Nazi Germany and Finland never signed a formal pact and during the Winter War Finland leaned more to the west - and had sympathy, but no actual help.


Wow........

How convenient just to mention the "Winter War" ....not the "Continuation War" or the continuation of the Winter war.....Where yes Finland did try to receive help from the west, but turned to Germany for MILITARY AID....Up to the start of Barbarossa, German troops were sent to Finland, (Lapland mostly)

Geat Britain actually declared war on FINLAND in 1941....and VISE VERSA

Granted Finland was not the aggressor, nor did it start the Winter War, but to say that they DID NOT receive any actual Help, only sympathy from Germany???? pleaaassseeee!!!!!!!!

I guess all those German Soldiers and German Weapons never happened or showed up, along with Finnish volunteers in the Waffen SS.

Those weapons seemed to work just fine when they were fired BACK at the same German Army that helped fend off Russia and Bolshevism..



Umm, the thread title says 39 does it not? I'm not trying to start a dick measuring contest here, but that is when the Winter war was fought you know? During the Winter War, Finland stood literally alone with something like 8000 troops of Swedish volunteers being the only significant foreign help.

Yeah, we fought alongside Nazi Germany during the Continuation war, however, as I wrote earlier, there was no formal pact. Yes, we are generally seen as the aggressors for that, although in reality the Russians bombed Finnish cities first at the beginning of the Continuation war. Happy now?

Finland also used every single weapon available, not just German, but American, Soviet, Japanese, Swedish... So what is your point there?

When it comes to England declaring war... That might as well be seen as a dick move after not helping during the Winter war.
Link Posted: 1/16/2013 12:55:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2013 1:00:54 PM EDT by hemiman]
Originally Posted By kalju:
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Originally Posted By kalju:
We were not allies, at least technically. Nazi Germany and Finland never signed a formal pact and during the Winter War Finland leaned more to the west - and had sympathy, but no actual help.


Wow........

How convenient just to mention the "Winter War" ....not the "Continuation War" or the continuation of the Winter war.....Where yes Finland did try to receive help from the west, but turned to Germany for MILITARY AID....Up to the start of Barbarossa, German troops were sent to Finland, (Lapland mostly)

Geat Britain actually declared war on FINLAND in 1941....and VISE VERSA

Granted Finland was not the aggressor, nor did it start the Winter War, but to say that they DID NOT receive any actual Help, only sympathy from Germany???? pleaaassseeee!!!!!!!!

I guess all those German Soldiers and German Weapons never happened or showed up, along with Finnish volunteers in the Waffen SS.

Those weapons seemed to work just fine when they were fired BACK at the same German Army that helped fend off Russia and Bolshevism..



Umm, the thread title says 39 does it not? I'm not trying to start a dick measuring contest here, but that is when the Winter war was fought you know? During the Winter War, Finland stood literally alone with something like 8000 troops of Swedish volunteers being the only significant foreign help.

Yeah, we fought alongside Nazi Germany during the Continuation war, however, as I wrote earlier, there was no formal pact. Yes, we are generally seen as the aggressors for that, although in reality the Russians bombed Finnish cities first at the beginning of the Continuation war. Happy now?

Finland also used every single weapon available, not just German, but American, Soviet, Japanese, Swedish... So what is your point there?

When it comes to England declaring war... That might as well be seen as a dick move after not helping during the Winter war.


I feel as though you took my post as being offensive, First, I am sorry, I dont really have anyone to talk "History" with ...so when I get the chance I just go with it..

Youre right, the title does say 1939, guess I got ahead of myself, My main point of study is the Eastern Front (Mostly from the German side)

Russia was obviously the aggressor through and through,

Although the Franco-British plans for intervening in the Winter War were more political (taking control of northern Swedens Iron ore, to stop it from getting to Germany) they were halted due to Norway and Sweden NOT agreeing  with the expedition. (there is more to this but i am not all that informed on the matter)

So yes, while it was a dick move for England to declare war on Finland.....in a way.....

Finland was in a very tight spot during WWII, and while they were attacked by the Russians first, they did allow Germany to mobilize there for Barbarosa and were aware of the plans, further more Finland  did sign the Anti Comintern Pact with Germany in 1936. Although you can argue the validity of this Pact due to the events to come....

I just think it was.......not right to, after seeing the inevitable end say "welp, sorry boys, but youre losing the war, we are siding with the soon to be victors."

But again I am not being "critical" of Finland, they obviously found themselves in a tough spot....really all through the war, and did fight Very Bravely against the Russians. Both alone and with Germany.
Link Posted: 1/19/2013 8:31:27 AM EDT
The Finns got the shaft during WW2. The Soviets invaded Finland and Fins fought the Soviets alone.  Mannerhien had to sign a deal with the devil to save his country from the Soviets.  Even with the Germans in Finland it was a tight rope that the FM had to walk and later had to fight both the Germans and Soviets.
Link Posted: 1/19/2013 3:14:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Originally Posted By kalju:
Originally Posted By hemiman:
Originally Posted By kalju:
We were not allies, at least technically. Nazi Germany and Finland never signed a formal pact and during the Winter War Finland leaned more to the west - and had sympathy, but no actual help.


Wow........

How convenient just to mention the "Winter War" ....not the "Continuation War" or the continuation of the Winter war.....Where yes Finland did try to receive help from the west, but turned to Germany for MILITARY AID....Up to the start of Barbarossa, German troops were sent to Finland, (Lapland mostly)

Geat Britain actually declared war on FINLAND in 1941....and VISE VERSA

Granted Finland was not the aggressor, nor did it start the Winter War, but to say that they DID NOT receive any actual Help, only sympathy from Germany???? pleaaassseeee!!!!!!!!

I guess all those German Soldiers and German Weapons never happened or showed up, along with Finnish volunteers in the Waffen SS.

Those weapons seemed to work just fine when they were fired BACK at the same German Army that helped fend off Russia and Bolshevism..



Umm, the thread title says 39 does it not? I'm not trying to start a dick measuring contest here, but that is when the Winter war was fought you know? During the Winter War, Finland stood literally alone with something like 8000 troops of Swedish volunteers being the only significant foreign help.

Yeah, we fought alongside Nazi Germany during the Continuation war, however, as I wrote earlier, there was no formal pact. Yes, we are generally seen as the aggressors for that, although in reality the Russians bombed Finnish cities first at the beginning of the Continuation war. Happy now?

Finland also used every single weapon available, not just German, but American, Soviet, Japanese, Swedish... So what is your point there?

When it comes to England declaring war... That might as well be seen as a dick move after not helping during the Winter war.



....Finland  did sign the Anti Comintern Pact with Germany in 1936. Although you can argue the validity of this Pact due to the events to come....


Actually Finland signed Anti Comintern Pact in 25 June 1941, 3 days after the launch of Operation Barbarossa.
Link Posted: 2/4/2013 9:23:50 PM EDT
My wife has dual citizenship US and Finnish. In the back of my mind I think Finland might be a good bug out country if the US ever goes SHTF.
My only problem is Finland is bordered with Russia and that gives me the hebejebes.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 2:57:57 PM EDT
My dads side of the family still have a very large farm in Finland
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 12:38:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By axl:
Talvisota


That starts out a little slow but it is such a bad ass movie !!
Link Posted: 11/30/2013 1:01:13 PM EDT
hard to beleive it has been a year since I first posted this
Link Posted: 11/30/2013 3:12:41 PM EDT
Nice old movie from 74 years ago.

Talvisota- The Winter War

Does someone happen to know what kind of a organisation this Friends of Finland was/is?
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 7:24:17 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mongo7382:
Simo was a serious badass that is for sure!  The Finn's stopped the Russians cold!  No pun intended.  The politics of the time were very convoluted!
View Quote

While I respect the fuck out of Simo my favorite Finn is Lauri Törni aka Larry Thorne.  If you have read the Green Beret he is the basis for the Colonel who mined his own bunkers.  His Biography Under Three Flags is short but well worth reading.
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 12:14:31 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By paddymurphy:

While I respect the fuck out of Simo my favorite Finn is Lauri Törni aka Larry Thorne.  If you have read the Green Beret he is the basis for the Colonel who mined his own bunkers.  His Biography Under Three Flags is short but well worth reading.
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View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By paddymurphy:
Originally Posted By Mongo7382:
Simo was a serious badass that is for sure!  The Finn's stopped the Russians cold!  No pun intended.  The politics of the time were very convoluted!

While I respect the fuck out of Simo my favorite Finn is Lauri Törni aka Larry Thorne.  If you have read the Green Beret he is the basis for the Colonel who mined his own bunkers.  His Biography Under Three Flags is short but well worth reading.


A family friend & mentor was the Command Sgt Maj @ the 10th S.F. Grp in Bad Tolz w' Thorne around 1960-1962.

Good book you mention.


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