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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/16/2003 11:37:03 AM EDT
I'm starting to believe that there were no WMD in Iraq at the time of our invasion. I think that had Saddam had them at his disposal, he would have used them. He obviously didn't give a shit about his own people and sure as hell would have liked to use them on an invading force. This is not to say that he didn't have them at one time. We all know of the horrors the Kurds in the north faced.

Now, before I get slammed I want to say that I fully supported the overthrow of his government and still do. We did the right thing, period. Our government need a selling point and that's what they used. I would have gone for some like "this guys a dick and needs waxed." Although I would have gone for a reason like that most of the world wouldn't. My point is, even if there are no WMD I don't really care. That guy needed plugged in '91 and we didn't get him. This time around it's a different story.

What are your thoughts?

DG84
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:43:02 AM EDT
Dude....not to change the subject..(well ok maybe so) you need to change your avitar, without my glasses on it looks like 2WhiskeyP trying to give ETH a physical.[:D] Sadam was a WMD...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:46:21 AM EDT
We'll never know until we get to Syria or unearth the entire Iraqi desert.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:47:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: I'm starting to believe that there were no WMD in Iraq at the time of our invasion. I think that had Saddam had them at his disposal, he would have used them. He obviously didn't give a shit about his own people and sure as hell would have liked to use them on an invading force. This is not to say that he didn't have them at one time. We all know of the horrors the Kurds in the north faced. Now, before I get slammed I want to say that I fully supported the overthrow of his government and still do. We did the right thing, period. Our government need a selling point and that's what they used. I would have gone for some like "this guys a dick and needs waxed." Although I would have gone for a reason like that most of the world wouldn't. My point is, even if there are no WMD I don't really care. That guy needed plugged in '91 and we didn't get him. This time around it's a different story. What are your thoughts? DG84
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As my mother once said, "even if they don't find a single nuclear, chemical or biological weapon in Iraq this war was right. Saddam killed and had killed 100s of thousands of people, that alone makes him a WMD and that is justification enough." Oh and by the way my mom leans left in her politics, though she has no problems with guns so I have no problems with her politics.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:51:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By R-32: you need to change your avitar, without my glasses on it looks like 2WhiskeyP trying to give ETH a physical.[:D]
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[LOLabove] No, don't change the avatar - it's great! [beer]
Originally Posted By R-32: Sadam was a WMD...
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Exactly.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:54:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TWIRE: We'll never know until we get to Syria or unearth the entire Iraqi desert.
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My friend, you are correct. -HS
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:57:02 AM EDT
I know they had and were developing other proscribed weapons. The evidence of these will not be presented in the media unless you know what to look for. Consider the following. [url]http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraqi_mobile_plants/[/url] The "rest of the world" heard an anonymous report splattered with alphabet soup of government acronyms that "dispelled" the rumor these were for biological weapons. Included in these agencies were the Defense Intelligence Agency. What you didn't hear was the following:
The capability of the system to capture and compress exhaust gases produced during fermentation is not required for legitimate biological processes and strongly indicates attempts to conceal production activity. The presence of caustic in the fermentor combined with the recent painting of the plant may indicate an attempt to decontaminate and conceal the plant's purpose. Finally, the data plate on the fermentor indicates that this system was manufactured in 2002 and yet it was not declared to the United Nations, as required by Security Council Resolutions.... ... Hydrogen Production Cover Story Senior Iraqi officials of the al-Kindi Research, Testing, Development, and Engineering facility in Mosul were shown pictures of the mobile production trailers, and they claimed that the trailers were used to chemically produce hydrogen for artillery weather balloons. Hydrogen production would be a plausible cover story for the mobile production units. The Iraqis have used sophisticated denial and deception methods that include the use of cover stories that are designed to work. Some of the features of the trailer—a gas collection system and the presence of caustic—are consistent with both bioproduction and hydrogen production. The plant's design possibly could be used to produce hydrogen using a chemical reaction, but it would be inefficient. The capacity of this trailer is larger than typical units for hydrogen production for weather balloons. [b]Compact, transportable hydrogen generation systems are commercially available, safe, and reliable.[/b]... ... As we expected, preliminary sample analysis results are negative for five standard BW agents, including Bacillus anthracis, and for growth media for those agents. In addition, the preliminary results indicate the presence of [b]sodium azide[/b] and urea, which do not support Iraqi claims that the trailer was for hydrogen production.
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Now what the hell was sodium azide doing in those tanks??? This is INCREDIBLY toxic but more damning, it is a chemical used to inhibit bacterial growth, like inhibiting bacterial growth in biotoxins. It is NOT used for any hydrogen gas generating facility. Now, what more proof do you need? FYI, these trailers would run about 10 million USD to manufacture.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:57:57 AM EDT
They're there somewhere.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:59:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TWIRE: We'll never know until we get to Syria or unearth the entire Iraqi desert.
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I fear you're right. Don't forget Iran...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:59:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 12:02:20 PM EDT by cyanide]
As my mother once said, "even if they don't find a single nuclear, chemical or biological weapon in Iraq this war was right. Saddam killed and had killed 100s of thousands of people, that alone makes him a WMD and that is justification enough."
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Even so, that would be an internal matter, for the Iraqi people, not a matter for the U.S. to step in on. As about him killing Iraqi's , they hate the U.S. and resent us being there, so far as I can see from the media, and protests, so about him killing his own people, good riddance to bad trash.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:01:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By R-32: you need to change your avitar, without my glasses on it looks like 2WhiskeyP trying to give ETH a physical.[:D]...
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Damn!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:02:59 PM EDT
Well there is good chance that WMD's are not in Iraq, than again we didn't know about the fighter planes that were buried till we dug them up.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:03:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 12:08:55 PM EDT by Spade]
Originally Posted By cyanide: As about him killing Iraqi's , they hate the U.S. and resent us being there, so far as I can see from the media, and protests.
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I posted a thread about Iraqi bloggers and the media. Go read it. Here: [url]http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/494vhvue.asp?pg=1[/url]
This week we turn most of THE SCRAPBOOK over to Zeyad, the 24-year-old Iraqi dentist and blogger who scooped the world media with his one-man reporting and photography on the big anti-terror, pro-democracy march in Baghdad on December 10. It was, as Zeyad accurately put it, "a great day for Iraq." Unfortunately, unless you visited Zeyad's website (http://healingiraq.blogspot.com) or one of the many blogs that linked to it, you probably never heard about the demonstrations. We'll let Zeyad explain: "When we were marching on Dec. 10 I told Omar that maybe we didn't need to cover the protests after all since it looked like reporters from all the major media agencies were doing so. As you can see in my pictures there were scores of reporters and cameras all over the place. And since the rallies ended in front of the Palestine hotel we thought that it would be impossible for the media to ignore this event. I felt a bit awkward walking along reporters carrying just a little digital camera while they had all the equipment. "The last thing we expected was to be the first to publish anything about the protests. It felt both good and awful at the same time. Good for scooping Reuters, AFP, AP, and other wire services and media stations. And awful for the people that depended on these services for their news. I'm telling you there were reporters from every station in the world at the demos that day and yet only a few mentioned them at all.
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When looking for info on Iraq, stop watching CNN, ABC, and CBS and start reading Command-Post and the other internet blogs. Wave of the future.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:07:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 12:08:57 PM EDT by jfrush]
Before the war the US, every other country, and even the dumbocrats all believed he had WMD's. But the truth was, the only way of knowing for sure was for Saddam to fully cooperate with the U.N. inspectors, which he didn't. So it very well may turn out that he didn't have them, War was the only way to find out one way or another. Well... I guess we could have sat around and waited to see if, and on who, he used WMD's but I think given those two options war was the better choice.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:16:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 12:17:44 PM EDT by Keith_J]
What, not one of you thong-wearing neolibs cares to debate the issue of the trailers? Have you all been poisoned by the liberal media into thinking these were for hydrogen generation? Are you expecting to find a cache of 155mm rounds, filled and fused even though the Iraqi chemical industry had problems with the stability of most of their nerve agents? And unmixed binary agents were found. Since they were unmixed, they didn't fit the rigorous definition of chemical weapons but were still on the UN short list. Oh, yes, the media reported these to be "agricultural chemicals"...right. The EXACT SAME process used to make Malithion can also make Sarin. Come on in and debate.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:06:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spade:
Originally Posted By cyanide: As about him killing Iraqi's , they hate the U.S. and resent us being there, so far as I can see from the media, and protests.
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I posted a thread about Iraqi bloggers and the media. Go read it. Here: [url]http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/494vhvue.asp?pg=1[/url]
This week we turn most of THE SCRAPBOOK over to Zeyad, the 24-year-old Iraqi dentist and blogger who scooped the world media with his one-man reporting and photography on the big anti-terror, pro-democracy march in Baghdad on December 10. It was, as Zeyad accurately put it, "a great day for Iraq." Unfortunately, unless you visited Zeyad's website (http://healingiraq.blogspot.com) or one of the many blogs that linked to it, you probably never heard about the demonstrations. We'll let Zeyad explain: "When we were marching on Dec. 10 I told Omar that maybe we didn't need to cover the protests after all since it looked like reporters from all the major media agencies were doing so. As you can see in my pictures there were scores of reporters and cameras all over the place. And since the rallies ended in front of the Palestine hotel we thought that it would be impossible for the media to ignore this event. I felt a bit awkward walking along reporters carrying just a little digital camera while they had all the equipment. "The last thing we expected was to be the first to publish anything about the protests. It felt both good and awful at the same time. Good for scooping Reuters, AFP, AP, and other wire services and media stations. And awful for the people that depended on these services for their news. I'm telling you there were reporters from every station in the world at the demos that day and yet only a few mentioned them at all.
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When looking for info on Iraq, stop watching CNN, ABC, and CBS and start reading Command-Post and the other internet blogs. Wave of the future.
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Thanks spade, I will look at this in the future.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:10:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyanide: Thanks spade, I will look at this in the future.
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NP.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:40:23 PM EDT
There was Pakistani guy on Hannity & Colmes last night..his name is Monsour something-or-other..anyway, his "people" who are in Iraq found a man who is willing to tell our leaders where the location of wmd's are. The catch (was) that he wanted to make sure Saddam was gone AND the U.S. could provide safe passage out of the country. His proof? His wife and son were infected by the wmd's becuase of their exposure to them...they have a cancer now that can only come from a certain type of bio-weapon. Anyway..Mr. Monsour said, now that Saddam is gone, the guy is spilling the details supposedly. He would not doubt that within the next 30 days, the U.S. would corroborate and find the wmd's...Just in time for the State of the Union. I believe him.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:46:48 PM EDT
Hey now.....whatcha trying to say R-32, that dude giving the exam has no hair![BD]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:00:29 PM EDT
It never made a difference to me one way or another.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:22:43 PM EDT
The issue isn't the presence of WMDs (which he had, and used), but the existence of WMD production programs which there is lots of evidence confirming. Once the program is in place, going to production would have been very fast and easy. He was too have gotten rid of all the WMD, and programs, in late 1991. He didn't.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:12:27 PM EDT
I heard this dumb cunt say, on the Glenn Beck show , that it is all big oil and that really isn't Saddam and we invaded Iraq with no just cause BlAH BLA BLAH........ I so hat the left wing assholes !!!!!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:24:01 PM EDT
Saddam will tell us the disposition of his WMDs. It is only a question of when he will tell us.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:26:16 PM EDT
If he didn't have WMDs how did all those Kurds and Iranian soldiers wind up dead? The question is not did he have them but where they went and who has them now...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:27:13 PM EDT
Who Really cares if they have them or not? They were either destroyed ot moved before the invasion started. The only ones that give a damn about WMD are the liberals, even if they find them, they will call it a plant job by republicans.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:28:25 PM EDT
I kinda figure, we "know" he had them, pretty close to our cold war enemy. Hell he was "pretty close" to us at one point. Were are they now, Korea, Syria, lets hope they DO find them in Iraq.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:31:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dpmmn: Who Really cares if they have them or not? They were either destroyed ot moved before the invasion started. The only ones that give a damn about WMD are the liberals, even if they find them, they will call it a plant job by republicans.
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I care that they are found so that they don't suddenly turn up in a subway in some American city. Same with the nuke materials, so someday some cargo container doesn't vaporise in one of our ports, and take everything for several miles around with it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:58:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J: What, not one of you thong-wearing neolibs cares to debate the issue of the trailers? Have you all been poisoned by the liberal media into thinking these were for hydrogen generation? Are you expecting to find a cache of 155mm rounds, filled and fused even though the Iraqi chemical industry had problems with the stability of most of their nerve agents? And unmixed binary agents were found. Since they were unmixed, they didn't fit the rigorous definition of chemical weapons but were still on the UN short list. Oh, yes, the media reported these to be "agricultural chemicals"...right. The EXACT SAME process used to make Malithion can also make Sarin. Come on in and debate.
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Errr, Keith: I can't debate you because: (1) I don't understand a single word you typed. (2) I happened to be on your side I would like to learn more, though, so can you please lead me to literatures, websites, links, etc that I can read (in plain ENGLISH, please, I am not too bright)and so I can learn a thing or two about this matter? Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:07:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 12:08:35 AM EDT by Winston_Wolf]
... I view it as an investment in our country's future
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 1:51:32 AM EDT
The true WMD in Iraq was Saddam Hussein. He tortured, killed, and oppressed large numbers of people. Seems to me that satisfies the definition of a WMD.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:51:00 AM EDT
The best site for education on UN prosrcibed weapons programs (WMD's and mfg facilities) is [url]http://www.fas.org[/url] There is a great search engine tied to this site. For a little primer. Iraq developed their WMD programs incrementally from technology "bits and pieces" but mostly from former Soviet Union technology. In addition, legitimate technology was imported to produce argiculturally important insecticides, many of which are chemical cousins to nerve agents. Durasban, Diazonon and Malithion are all insect grade nerve agents. All of these are legal to manufacture anywhere, even in post GWI Iraq WITH UN INSPECTION. During the Iran war, the stability of many of their nerve agents was so poor these chemicals arrived on the battlefield in an ineffective condition. All nerve agents deteriorate over time. These Iraqi agents had a shelf life of DAYS, not months or years. After the Iraq war, the corrective action for this limitation was a two-pronged approach. One was qaulity improvement. The other was development of binary systems whose components were mixed immediately before use and the precursors were much more stable than the product. Both of these approaches were not openly possible in the presence of UN inspectors after GWI. The solution was to create dual use facilities and mobile plants. The limitation of this was "tip off" of the upcoming inspections were required to hide/change/destroy any evidence of banned activity. And this is EXACTLY what happened up to October of 1998 when the inspectors were forced to leave under suspicion of US espionage. The sites to be inspected were determined at the UN headquarters of the UN, then transmitted under dioplomatic pouch to the inspectors in Iraq. This worked well until 1996 when a leak in the UN was suspected. The security of the office where the insepction list was held had been compromised and the response was to create a "red herring" list. This list contained sites other than that which were suspected of these dual use capacity. Eventually this list was extended to three layers deep because SOMEONE tipped them off. I apoligize if this is long. The UN documents are even longer...yet a 10 second blurb on the news of "No WMD have been found" is sufficient for establishment of fact. Crying shame. Remember, ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:55:11 AM EDT
Hopefully, we'll find them soon. My Democrat buddies are giving me hell about the reason Bush defied the rest of the world to invade Iraq.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 3:12:04 PM EDT
I would be great if they found them soon... Wouldn't it be great to see all this blow up in the face of the liberals. And to have it start out with the capture of Saddam would be priceless.
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