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Posted: 4/9/2001 10:52:28 AM EDT
[#1]
Looking into an FAL type shortly myself. DSA's do look sweet...
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Posted: 4/9/2001 10:57:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Nice to see more people discovering DSA.
In a nation flooded with AR's, it takes balls of steel to go out and produce new FAL's right here in America, especially given the political climate. Not only that, but they are the finest FAL's ever made! The STG-58's DSA is putting out are exceptional rifles in every way. In my opinion, there aren't any FAL kit guns that come close. Enjoy your new FAL, and don't forget to let your friends shoot it, they'll want one too. P.S.- My DSA is a Limited Edition Lightweight Carbine, 1 of 10 produced in that specific configuration. Stainless receiver, Stainless, cryo-treated barrel, all black finish. An absolutely beautiful rifle. And to think I almost bought an HK91 instead! With DSA around, you have to be nuts to buy a 91. [url]www.dsarms.com[/url] |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 10:59:21 AM EDT
[#3]
I got a type two last week. Dealer cost is $795 on these things and there were plenty on the shelves ready for shipping. I went with the type two as it's a couple ounces lighter and has more sexy lines cut into the receiver.
If you're paying $10 a magazine you're paying too much! Most run $6 to $8 in very good shape. DSA and AIM are the guys I'm going through. The rifle is a blast. I ran 360 rounds though mine without a hitch. I found a magazine that it was hard to strip the first two rounds off of but at $8 each no problem. [img]wildwildwest.acmecity.com/tarantula/431/Firearms/Long_Arms/DSA_FAL/DSA_STG-58_FAL_Kit.GIF[/img] [img]wildwildwest.acmecity.com/tarantula/431/Firearms/Long_Arms/DSA_FAL/DSA_STG-58_FAL_receiver.GIF[/img] |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 10:59:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Check out fnfal.com for all the fal info you want.
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:03:21 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I got a type two last week. Dealer cost is $795 on these things and there were plenty on the shelves ready for shipping. I went with the type two as it's a couple ounces lighter and has more sexy lines cut into the receiver. I thought the Type 1 had the receiver cuts?? No?????Then I'm gettin' the type 2. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:04:35 AM EDT
[#6]
IS this the rifle they tested at the crufflers.com site? It sounds like it. They raved about it but they put it up against some less expensive FAL's and it did not perform any better. They explained it as looking nicer but all performing within the same range. I think they were shooting "Enterprise" guns against it? I'd have to go back and read the information again. They loved the FAL's. I got me a bunch of FAL mags with more on the way and a rifle coming in two weeks I hope.(Keeping fingers crossed) An L1A1..then a couple cases of ammoto get things started.
BUSH SNIPER |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:09:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Hey Paul,is that a muzzle break or a flash hider on your FAL?
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:10:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Have a DSA carbine and it is very well made. Functions flawlessly and mild recoil.
A must for your collection if the law prohibits or money prrvents you from getting the original. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:18:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Please post some more pictures of FAL's.
OT-but how much are the pre-ban steyr's going for? |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:27:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Have a DSA carbine and it is very well made. Functions flawlessly and mild recoil. A must for your collection if the law prohibits or money prrvents you from getting the original. DSA's new FAL's ARE better than the originals. Lot's of people think the FN FAL was the best. It wasn't. The Austrian STG-58's were superior rifles to the FN's. The new FAL's DSA makes are superior to ALL of them. No contest. Their manufacturing processes, their materials and tech-tools are simply more advanced and precise. DSA bought EVERYTHING from the Steyr factory, minus the building the equipment was housed in. They have improved production techniques far beyond what any other FAL maker ever had. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:27:39 AM EDT
[#11]
sigman,
That's a STG-look-alike muzzlebrake soldered on to replace the original. garandman, The Type I and Type II have the receiver cuts. The Type III doesn't. I'm glad DSA is around and have supported them by buying one of their kit guns and one of their USA manufactured guns. I haven't seen anything else close in quality. Gives my M1A a run for the money. PS: DSA also sells walnut furniture for the FAL if you just have to have wood. Enjoy! |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:35:16 AM EDT
[#12]
It's a muzzle thingie - not much of a brake. Basically it's a fashion device. It has four sets of two small holes evenly spaced around the end. They are cut straight in and out with no redirection or angles.
The recoil of this .308 isn't bad at all but there is some muzzle flip. I might have a better muzzle treatment added later. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:40:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: The recoil of this .308 isn't bad at all but there is some muzzle flip. I might have a better muzzle treatment added later. I've already asked DSA if they would put something else as far as ANOTHER muzzlebreak on there. No, they said. I wonder if you just drill some larger holes, straight down thru the top of the brake, that would redirect the gas up, and stop the muzzle action???? |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:46:32 AM EDT
[#14]
I am looking at putting together a semi-auto "precision" rifle.The two main factors for it are 1) it has to be accurate(DUH!)
and 2) it needs to have a flash-hider(okay maybe it doesnt need one,but I want one) So would it be feasible to buy a pre-ban FAL lower reciever and but a DSA upper(or whatever other parts are needed to make a complete rifle) on it?The pre-ban lower even though it might not be as good as a post-ban DSA will at least let me have a flash-hider.Also does DSA put flash-hiders on any of their uppers or do they sell threaded match barrels?(my DSA cataloge has them selling Flash-hiders separetly) So in conclusion would the above FAl,if scoped be as accurate as a scoped National Match M1A? |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 11:50:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: So in conclusion would the above FAl,if scoped be as accurate as a scoped National Match M1A? No. The M1A is the standard for .308 precision accuracy. The FAL is the standard for a .308 battle rifle. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 12:02:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Sigh.......had to try
guess I will just have to get both |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 12:23:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: guess I will just have to get both ...which is pretty much the answer to EVERY either / or firearms decision. [:D] |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 1:08:38 PM EDT
[#18]
I DON'T KNOW.....here in argentina we produce those rifles called FAL (fusil automatico liviano) i have one of 'em and i don't think they are any better than an ar.......in fact i think an ar is better than any FAL when it comes to accuracy, light weigth, confortalbe shooting position, finishing.
as some of u may know 19 years ago we argentinians fought a war in the malvinas island(also know as falkland) (screw that)...anyway some officers complained about the FAL saying that it was to heavy, unconfortable, to much of a shot for an ASSAULT WEAPON, another thing, the rear sight starts at 200 meters and hits a 9 inchs higher even at 150 so u have to take it even backward to fire at this distance(150) (SOME FAL'S START AT 250 THOSE DON'T HAVE THIS PROB). BOTTOM LINE IF I HAVE TO PICK BETWEN A FAL OR AN AR OR EVEN A H&K G3 THE FAL WOULD BE THE LAST ONE I'D PICK. but once again enjoy yer rifle and i recomend ya not to use wheel devices or auto sears leo. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 2:14:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: I DON'T KNOW.....here in argentina we produce those rifles called FAL (fusil automatico liviano) i have one of 'em and i don't think they are any better than an ar.......in fact i think an ar is better than any FAL when it comes to accuracy, light weigth, confortalbe shooting position, finishing. as some of u may know 19 years ago we argentinians fought a war in the malvinas island(also know as falkland) (screw that)...anyway some officers complained about the FAL saying that it was to heavy, unconfortable, to much of a shot for an ASSAULT WEAPON, another thing, the rear sight starts at 200 meters and hits a 9 inchs higher even at 150 so u have to take it even backward to fire at this distance(150) (SOME FAL'S START AT 250 THOSE DON'T HAVE THIS PROB). BOTTOM LINE IF I HAVE TO PICK BETWEN A FAL OR AN AR OR EVEN A H&K G3 THE FAL WOULD BE THE LAST ONE I'D PICK. but once again enjoy yer rifle and i recomend ya not to use wheel devices or auto sears leo. I guess you folks in Argentina don't get much in the way of DSA rifles. If you did, your post would have read a little differently regarding FAL's. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 2:22:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Sigman
I hate to tell you this but the part that is pre or post ban on the FAL is the Upper Receiver that is the part with the Serial Number. But the FAL can be very accurate and is capable of shooting under 1 MOA with a little work or a little more work and a free float hand guard. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 2:50:32 PM EDT
[#21]
DEAR COPE....joe...feel like i owe you an apology. saw a original "pre ban" type mini today, factory folder, s/s, with factory s/s 30 round mag. dealer says going rate is 1100...but he`d take 900....don`t know how to take it? (paid a lot less for my m15a2)...sorry guys this was off the subject....[heavy]
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Posted: 4/9/2001 3:05:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Please post some more pictures of FAL's. Well you asked for it. . . [b]My Franken-FAL, STG-58 Carbine w/ Comp M[/b] [img]http://www.euroarmsinc.com/stg-compm.jpg[/img] [b]My Izzy HB[/b] [img]http://www.euroarmsinc.com/izzy/izzy-left-full.jpg[/img] [b]My Aussie L2A1[/b] [img]http://www.euroarmsinc.com/l2a1pics/l2a1-left.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 3:21:15 PM EDT
[#23]
How many woody`s?.....c`mon, be honest!...[heavy]
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Posted: 4/9/2001 3:25:47 PM EDT
[#24]
B&G,
Man, I really appreciate that comment. I wound up getting $650 out of mine, with a factory 30 rounder and 2 aftermarket 30's. It all depends on how bad the next guy wants it. Guess that goes for anything though. Best part is the fact that I could go right now and shoot the thing if I wanted to. I know the combination to the safe of the guy that bought it from me. Not bad, eh? ;^) No apology necessary. Joe P.S. I sure hope you bought that one you were talking about a few weeks ago for $275. |
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Posted: 4/9/2001 3:35:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Cope---no, i waited too long. gotta pick em` up when you see em`...i`ve done this too many times. actually, i`m after other stuff before a mini 14. have a 30 and it serves the purpose. the story about the colt pre ban is also true. i didn`t believe it, until i figured it out (with a little investigation) turns out the private ffl guy originally sold this rifle to the guy. (back in 83?) guy needs cash, (divorce) ffl guy gets a call offers 450, guy takes it. ffl guy sells for 1500...true story...wish it WAS me...[heavy]
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Posted: 4/9/2001 7:58:51 PM EDT
[#26]
No advice on the FAL, eh? bummer :^(
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Posted: 4/9/2001 8:58:52 PM EDT
[#27]
If you're going to spend the money on a good rifle in .308, get the DSA.
In a Combat Annual from a couple of years ago, there was a huge write-up on the FAL and its history, and another on the DSA's. At the end of the article, the author alluded to the fact that his choice would be the 18" bbl. version WITHOUT the brake. He felt that the 18" bbl. would be ideal for accuracy/portability and would spare the shooter the extra noise the brake imparted on the ears. He also said the most popular model was the Carbine WITH the muzzle brake, because it was even more portable and looked cool with the brake on it. Most guys WILL go for the "cool factor". No doubt. If you're looking for an autoloading low-high capacity target shooter, the longer/heavier bbl. model would work better, and JPEnterprises can install their Recoil Eliminator on the end to keep the gun from flipping up on you. If you want to save money initially, there are other choices. For ultimate satisfaction on your money spent, you'd likely not regret the DSA. I held the Carbine once and was depressed that I couldn't afford it at the time. Maybe in the future, I'll get one. If I could only have one rifle, it would be the DSA Carbine with a Leupold MK4 scope in the DSA mounting system. I could almost justify trading something off for this set-up. Oh-oh, here I go again...! Here's a direct link to the DSA page where the articles are:http://www.dsarms.com/magazine_articles.htm |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 1:37:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Cope-
Don't let the term "kit gun" scare you away from DSA. They use that term to identify the rifles they build using Austrian STG58 parts kits. It is a fully assembled rifle which DSA will ship to a dealer for $810. As long as you have the FFL to send them, you can use a credit card or mail them the funds. They will also stuff as many used $5 20 rd. magazines in the case as you want to pay for for no additional shipping. I just bought 2 Type IIs and they were both very nicely made. New gas piston, pristine bores, new DSA USA made upper receiver and fire control parts to make them legal for surplus magazines. All the numbers on the Austrian parts matched. Also has the bipod, case and 1 magazine included. When you call DSA, ask for Susie. |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 2:10:22 AM EDT
[#29]
I bought the DSA parts gun, and I am VERY IMPRESSED. Fit & Finish, reliable (I had issues till I got the gas set right!), and plentiful ammo and mags.
It is probably, dollar for dollar, the BEST buy I have EVER made in ALLL my many firearms purchases. I liked it SO much, and was SO impressed, I bought the [url]http://www.fnfal.com/cgi-bin/forums/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro[/url]FNFAL files Group Kit Purchase. All those cheap mags, need more rifles to be used in! I am glad to have been introduced to this barely known firearm, and DSA did a FINE job making the BEST FN copy I have seen. OUT HERE.... |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 8:14:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Thanks guys. I felt kinda bad asking for a spoon feeding on the FAL. I guess I just trust the guys around here moreso than some of the other boards. I have been over to FAL Files a few times recently. I missed the front end of the group buy, or I would have probably thrown a couple hundred bucks at one of those kits. Looks like it's gonna be a luck of the draw ordeal on the quality of the kit each person receives. What's $200, when it's going to a good cause?
$900 out the door, with an armload of mags, is very acceptable for a quality DSA piece. I was eyeballing the SA58, but I imagine the STG58 will just have to do. One last question, if I may? Is there really that much difference in the STG58 and the economical CETME? Silly question, or not? Thanks again, Joe |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 8:44:51 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I am glad to have been introduced to this barely known firearm, and DSA did a FINE job making the BEST FN copy I have seen. OUT HERE.... Just a footnote. They're not FN copies. They are Steyr STG-58 copies, and they are more than a copy, they are FAR better than any original. FN aint the best FAL, and neither is Steyr. The DSA FAL is better than all of them. |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 10:44:54 AM EDT
[#32]
I don't own a CETME, but I've shot one. The wood on the CETME was nice, but this example had repeated failures to eject, possibly due to the pivoting ejector? The finish was average at best. The fit and finish and function was typical Century, not good. Also Century is notorious for poor quality internal parts they use to reduce the import parts count. Don't know if they replace any mag parts. That would drive up the expense of extra mags.
Replacement parts? The CETME is drying up since they're all made from imported parts and no more are being imported (maybe never?). DSA will soon be making every part needed for the FAL. The SA58 only uses a few imported Steyr parts, I think just the rear sight and gas block. Magazine price and availability could be a big issue. With good used mags costing $5, the FAL is a great deal in this regard. I don't think the G3/CETME mags are quite that cheap. It's not a silly question, at least I had the same question. The DSA STG-58 versus CETME? I haven't regretted my choice. Quality has a way of keeping you happy. |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 11:03:44 AM EDT
[#33]
I would suggest the 21 inch barrel on the FAL vice the 18". If you've got a .308 for an entry gun then the 18" will be enough but then who in their right mind... never mind.
The extra little bit of weight that the three more inches of barrel will equal about four or five rounds of .308 ammo. But that same 3 inches will mean a few hundred feet per second of velocity which means flater shooting and harder hitting. The muzzle device on the end of the STG-58 kit is pretty lame but it does look nice. I might have it cut off and replaced with a more effective brake. |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 12:39:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Garandman, I have a Post ban FAL for sale it is on an IMBEL Gear Logo reciever and was built from an Exc condition numbers matching STG-58 kit. Has all original furniture and folding bipod, finish is Exc. Shoots super. I want what I paid for it, $800.
These are in my opinion the best 308 battle rifle ever made. Parts are very easy to get and are dirt cheap, very reliable, easy to use and work on, cheap mags etc. etc. I have 2 but only need one, a new motorcycle is calling my name! Bren |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 4:32:46 PM EDT
[#35]
I have a DSA medium wt. barrel (stainless). Best rifle I own, and I own quite the selection.
Low recoil, excellent fit-n-finish, very good accuracy and excellent reliability. It is a true SHTF rifle. Now looking for another, as soon as finances allow. |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 5:03:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Goblin,
You guys are killing me with all the positive feedback on the DSA stuff. Just when I thought I had my true SHTF weapon in the all Colt M4gery I put together a couple months back, you come out and say the DSA .308 is your choice. Even though I put several nice civilian based pieces away years ago, I have been away from the gun stuff for the last 5 years. I think I am back with a vengence to pick up some good quality pieces at a fathomable cost. After sinking $1500+ in the preban Colt, I guess I can stomach a DSA. I just don't know if I wanna go for the full blown SA58 or settle for the DSA uppered STG58 with the imported Steyr parts. I gotta admit that this must be one heckuva rifle in order for me to lay down the AR. After only a few outings and 500 rounds, I am in lust with that thing. Thanks for the info. Joe |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 5:13:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Centauro97
The more I read about these different .308 rifles, the more I realize they aren't as standard as the AR family of rifles. In other words, a USGI mag will work in any .223 AR. I am slowly finding out that is not the case with some of these imported deals. Also, a mil spec lower is pretty much a mil spec lower when it comes to ARs. (With the exception of finish details). With the .308s, an upper is definitely not an upper. It will all come to me in due time. With the great feed back from guys like yourself, and quite a bit of surfing and reading, I will learn enough to make a wise purchase. Not long ago, I was driving people nutz about learning the ropes on the AR. Thanks for the feedback. Joe |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 8:17:16 PM EDT
[#38]
They're not FN copies. They are Steyr STG-58 copies, and they are more than a copy, they are FAR better than any original. FN aint the best FAL, and neither is Steyr. The DSA FAL is better than all of them. About time you broadened you horizons Garandman, and got something more advanced than that old has-been Garand ([;)], Just kiddin' GMan, can't wait to shoot my new SG this Friday) But I definitely do ditto the DSA accolades. Fine rifle. Have fun! |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 8:47:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Let's see here---
1 Colt M4gery in .223 as an Urban Rifle, soon to be followed by a DSA (get the 21" bbl. for this one) in .308. Looks like the next step after that should be a Rem.700 in .300 Ultra for the bolt action long range rifle, just to round it out. If you're coming back with a vengence, for Pete's sake, do it BIG! |
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Posted: 4/10/2001 11:51:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: They're not FN copies. They are Steyr STG-58 copies, and they are more than a copy, they are FAR better than any original. FN aint the best FAL, and neither is Steyr. The DSA FAL is better than all of them. About time you broadened you horizons Garandman, and got something more advanced than that old has-been Garand ([;)], Just kiddin' GMan, can't wait to shoot my new SG this Friday) But I definitely do ditto the DSA accolades. Fine rifle. Have fun! The quote was mine, but thanks anyway.[(:|)] |
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Posted: 4/11/2001 8:09:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Dang, BusMaster007, your reading my mind!
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