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Posted: 7/24/2013 6:46:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 6:57:18 PM EST by RockHard13F]
If you think you are going to use your gun collection to fight whatever fantasy war you are dreaming of, then short of Mad Max style post-apocalyptic world where no one is flying, think again. I had to listen to some moron today talk at a gun shop about taking out aircraft with an M82A1 .50 BMG, and I immediately thought of some certain folks on ARFCOM.

Guess what? If you don't have integrated air defense capabilities in your fantasy war- you're fucked. Because fantasy war, as many Jihadi's can attest, ends the moment a JTAC, JFO, or FAC brings an F/A-18 or AV-8b down on you and blows you up from so far away you can't even see the aircraft.

So my would-be revolutionaries- how do you expect to handle that? Have barns of MANPADs waiting? Guess what? The bird can still outreach you. You have no chance, you can't hide, you can't run, and the NSA has recorded this post 87 different places already.

But seriously- reality is, would be revolutionaries against a 1st world military with complete air superiority? Game. Over. Stop dreaming- or start saying for a MANPAD and the 200$ tax stamp, (which may soon be available over the counter per another thread.)


I do not suggest that I believe F/A-18s are going to be flown by Marines and Sailors to bomb Americans here- I suggest that the idea that such is what someone is preparing for is fucking retarded, because they can't win their fantasy scenario.

G-d damnit, I almost feel like an _A hole posting this.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:48:19 PM EST



Uh, no. I'm not going to be shooting down any aircraft.

I'm still going to be the Emperor of Montana, but that's another story.


Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:48:43 PM EST
What makes you think that the military would even be willing to turn against the people?

Not to mention that if a government has to turn to bombing its own cities, it has already lost the war.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:49:12 PM EST
Are they going to shoot Hellfires and JDAMS into US city blocks?

Collateral damage is barely acceptable when it's foreigners on the other side of the world. What's going to happen when they take out an apartment building in Dubuqe to get 3 guys?
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:49:58 PM EST
Hi NSA.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:50:15 PM EST
OP talks like we won in Afghanistan...

like asshole farmers lubing their rusty AKs with diesel havent been beating our asses the past 10 years
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:50:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Are they going to shoot Hellfires and JDAMS into US city blocks?

Collateral damage is barely acceptable when it's foreigners on the other side of the world. What's going to happen when they take out an apartment building in Dubuqe to get 3 guys?
View Quote

It is as likely as the guy from the gun shop stopping it with his M82A1.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:51:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 6:53:25 PM EST by Strongbow]
I'm not worried about fighting the military, as much as I am bandits/predators in a situations where civil order has broken down.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:51:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
What makes you think that the military would even be willing to turn against the people?

View Quote
Not to mention that if a government has to turn to bombing its own cities, it has already lost the war.

There it is.

Not many FACs or Pilots would risk their families either.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:52:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Are they going to shoot Hellfires and JDAMS into US city blocks?

Collateral damage is barely acceptable when it's foreigners on the other side of the world. What's going to happen when they take out an apartment building in Dubuqe to get 3 guys?
View Quote

Why do some folks still not understand this?
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:52:10 PM EST
Air Superiority truly is the end all be all in modern warfare. I mean just look at how we were able to bomb the Taliban into submission.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:52:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Are they going to shoot Hellfires and JDAMS into US city blocks?

Collateral damage is barely acceptable when it's foreigners on the other side of the world. What's going to happen when they take out an apartment building in Dubuqe to get 3 guys?
View Quote


Nothing
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:53:16 PM EST
Because no war was ever won by forces who lacked air superiority.

Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:53:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bmason63:
OP talks like we won in Afghanistan...

like asshole farmers lubing their rusty AKs with diesel havent been beating our asses the past 10 years
View Quote

America is not Afghanistan- and even if it were, that is a whole different subject.

That said, I don't at all believe we've been getting our asses beat. We have lost less troops in Afghanistan in 10 years than we used to lose in a single day of fighting. But again, that is for a different thread.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:53:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
If you think you are going to use your gun collection to fight whatever fantasy war you are dreaming of, then short of Mad Max style post-apocalyptic world where no one is flying, think again. I had to listen to some moron today talk at a gun shop about taking out aircraft with an M82A1 .50 BMG, and I immediately thought of some certain folks on ARFCOM.

Guess what? If you don't have integrated air defense capabilities in your fantasy war- you're fucked. Because fantasy war, as many Jihadi's can attest, ends the moment a JTAC, JFO, or FAC brings an F/A-18 or AV-8b down on you and blows you up from so far away you can't even see the aircraft.

So my would-be revolutionaries- how do you expect to handle that? Have barns of MANPADs waiting? Guess what? The bird can still outreach you. You have no chance, you can't hide, you can't run, and the NSA has recorded this post 87 different places already.

But seriously- reality is, would be revolutionaries against a 1st world military with complete air superiority? Game. Over. Stop dreaming- or start saying for a MANPAD and the 200$ tax stamp, (which may soon be available over the counter per another thread.)


G-d damnit, I almost feel like an _A hole posting this.
View Quote


No one has ever said this before....

and no one has ever made these counter observations before:

1.) We don't live in separate communities so carpet bombing would be stupid
2.) The "Troops" are not from another continent so if they choose to make war on other Americans how do they make their families safe, how do they go to the movies or eat out safely ever again?
3.) Many many American are veterans and we are some inventive folks when you get us going.
4.) The "Troops" are us and are overwhelmingly conservative as well as as from the South and Mid-West so why would they be bombing their states and communities again?

I am sure I have missed many many more.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:54:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dead-As-Dillinger:
Air Superiority truly is the end all be all in modern warfare. I mean just look at how we were able to bomb the Taliban into submission.
View Quote



Exactly. The same horseshit ROE we neuter ourselves with now would be increased 2 fold if operations were in our own country. Except instead of dirt farmers with AKs the enemy would be better trained and better armed. Nobody would win.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:54:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 6:56:54 PM EST by GrandfatherCoyote]
Air superiority is fine and all, and a damned good thing to have.

But a lot of good that air superiority does you when you're trying to find a lighter, smaller, more nimble and mobile force of guys who are not stupid and know be terrian. Sure, there's FLIR and Thermal and all that other stuff, and that's an awesome advantage, but I don't know that "air power" is the end-all be-all reason to start out with a defeatist attitude. You just gotta plan for it, take it into account, and overcome and adapt.

But there ARE a lot of stupid people out there who DON'T plan ahead, do any contingency planning, and just figure "Well, hay-ul, I ah reckon I can jist shoot down that aeroplane up yonder. Hold mah beer an' watch this" but those types'll be weeded out pretty quickly.

Who knows? Technology versus "primitive" Guerrilla doesn't always mean the technology side comes out on top.

Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:55:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bmason63:
OP talks like we won in Afghanistan...

like asshole farmers lubing their rusty AKs with diesel havent been beating our asses the past 10 years
View Quote


What was the kill ratio in Afghanistan?
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:55:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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Originally Posted By 9mmRandy:
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Are they going to shoot Hellfires and JDAMS into US city blocks?

Collateral damage is barely acceptable when it's foreigners on the other side of the world. What's going to happen when they take out an apartment building in Dubuqe to get 3 guys?


Nothing
http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/04/20/waco_fire_wide-9203577b23bd582c55a3ac54d95e03ced5cd9573-s6-c30.jpg

Not even remotely the same.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:55:51 PM EST
The planes have to land somewhere.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:56:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lacoochee:


No one has ever said this before....

and no one has ever made these counter observations before:

1.) We don't live in separate communities so carpet bombing would be stupid
2.) The "Troops" are not from another continent so if they choose to make war on other Americans how do they make their families safe, how do they go to the movies or eat out safely ever again?
3.) Many many American are veterans and we are some inventive folks when you get us going.
4.) The "Troops" are us and are overwhelmingly conservative as well as as from the South and Mid-West so why would they be bombing their states and communities again?

I am sure I have missed many many more.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lacoochee:
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
If you think you are going to use your gun collection to fight whatever fantasy war you are dreaming of, then short of Mad Max style post-apocalyptic world where no one is flying, think again. I had to listen to some moron today talk at a gun shop about taking out aircraft with an M82A1 .50 BMG, and I immediately thought of some certain folks on ARFCOM.

Guess what? If you don't have integrated air defense capabilities in your fantasy war- you're fucked. Because fantasy war, as many Jihadi's can attest, ends the moment a JTAC, JFO, or FAC brings an F/A-18 or AV-8b down on you and blows you up from so far away you can't even see the aircraft.

So my would-be revolutionaries- how do you expect to handle that? Have barns of MANPADs waiting? Guess what? The bird can still outreach you. You have no chance, you can't hide, you can't run, and the NSA has recorded this post 87 different places already.

But seriously- reality is, would be revolutionaries against a 1st world military with complete air superiority? Game. Over. Stop dreaming- or start saying for a MANPAD and the 200$ tax stamp, (which may soon be available over the counter per another thread.)


G-d damnit, I almost feel like an _A hole posting this.


No one has ever said this before....

and no one has ever made these counter observations before:

1.) We don't live in separate communities so carpet bombing would be stupid
2.) The "Troops" are not from another continent so if they choose to make war on other Americans how do they make their families safe, how do they go to the movies or eat out safely ever again?
3.) Many many American are veterans and we are some inventive folks when you get us going.
4.) The "Troops" are us and are overwhelmingly conservative as well as as from the South and Mid-West so why would they be bombing their states and communities again?

I am sure I have missed many many more.

I do not suggest that I believe F/A-18s are going to be flown by Marines and Sailors to bomb Americans here- I suggest that the idea that such is what someone is preparing for is fucking retarded, because they can't win their fantasy scenario.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:57:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dead-As-Dillinger:
Air Superiority truly is the end all be all in modern warfare. I mean just look at how we were able to bomb the Taliban into submission.
View Quote

I see what u did there.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:57:58 PM EST
If the war started tomorrow, what makes you think the military would even be a target for insurgents?

Stop thinking of civil war in this country as something that would resemble 1863. It's likely to look more like a bunch of pissant little militias sniping and car bombing each other and their opponent's supporters while the rest of the world tries to make a living. The military is going to be stretched thin indeed just trying to ensure that a few dollars of tax money still roll in.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:58:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:


What was the kill ratio in Afghanistan?
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Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By bmason63:
OP talks like we won in Afghanistan...

like asshole farmers lubing their rusty AKs with diesel havent been beating our asses the past 10 years


What was the kill ratio in Afghanistan?





Then why are we still there?
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:59:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:00:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StretchMaK:


Then why are we still there?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StretchMaK:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By bmason63:
OP talks like we won in Afghanistan...

like asshole farmers lubing their rusty AKs with diesel havent been beating our asses the past 10 years


What was the kill ratio in Afghanistan?


Then why are we still there?

There are a lot of reasons that Afghanistan is important on an economic and strategic level- for example the oil pipelines the Chinese are wanting to put through it, that we want to sway them from allowing. There are entire books on the subject.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:00:51 PM EST
That's why you don't fight the plane in the air, you attack while the aircraft are on the ground.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:01:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mac1020:
That's why you don't fight the plane in the air, you attack while the aircraft are on the ground.
View Quote

True, the LAAD guys need something to shoot at too!
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:03:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
If you think you are going to use your gun collection to fight whatever fantasy war you are dreaming of, then short of Mad Max style post-apocalyptic world where no one is flying, think again. I had to listen to some moron today talk at a gun shop about taking out aircraft with an M82A1 .50 BMG, and I immediately thought of some certain folks on ARFCOM.

Guess what? If you don't have integrated air defense capabilities in your fantasy war- you're fucked. Because fantasy war, as many Jihadi's can attest, ends the moment a JTAC, JFO, or FAC brings an F/A-18 or AV-8b down on you and blows you up from so far away you can't even see the aircraft.

So my would-be revolutionaries- how do you expect to handle that? Have barns of MANPADs waiting? Guess what? The bird can still outreach you. You have no chance, you can't hide, you can't run, and the NSA has recorded this post 87 different places already.

But seriously- reality is, would be revolutionaries against a 1st world military with complete air superiority? Game. Over. Stop dreaming- or start saying for a MANPAD and the 200$ tax stamp, (which may soon be available over the counter per another thread.)


I do not suggest that I believe F/A-18s are going to be flown by Marines and Sailors to bomb Americans here- I suggest that the idea that such is what someone is preparing for is fucking retarded, because they can't win their fantasy scenario.

G-d damnit, I almost feel like an _A hole posting this.
View Quote


Using air power means civilian casualties..
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:04:16 PM EST
Most people are delusional when it comes to firearms. My weapons are intended to help myself and family against human targets only.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:04:55 PM EST
I am curious to know the actual dolloar amount per confirmed kill thats been spent on the US side and the insurgency/Taliban side. Bet its an interesting figure.

These threads are fun. And OP if I want to beat off to the thought of myself Markie Marking an enemy Apache thats about to committ northern agression on me and mine, let me
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:06:04 PM EST
some of you would rather live as slaves than die as free men.... that says a lot.

if the US gov't turns on it's people, many of you would wonder where you could sign up to join.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:07:16 PM EST
I'm saying home until the dust settles. Anyone who wants to stir shit will have a drone launced Hellfire for company. It's the modern way of warfare.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:07:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 7:09:02 PM EST by Durka-Durka]
Rock hard 13b (correction, F) needs to consult some of his officers who have been schooled in the subject to see if its possible or even been done befoe.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:08:24 PM EST
I definitely see what OP is saying; in a conventional war pitting the US military agains the US citizenry (implausible, but go with it), military wins. Nothing any of us has is shooting down a B52 at cruising altitude (or probably much of anything else). That said...

The LAPD had a pretty crushing manpower/equipment/air support advantage over Chris Dorner, and he singlehandedly took them on for a week. Not applauding his actions, just pointing it out.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:08:41 PM EST
Obama has also stated he prefers a national police force to a standing military. Obama has also cut funding for a lot of what the Military asks for and needs. Surely, he has built up enemies as a result.....

Fact is, a good portion of the Military would defect if it came down to such a scenario you envision.... Wouldn't surprised me if a coup was pulled, either.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:08:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 7:10:15 PM EST by Lacoochee]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

I do not suggest that I believe F/A-18s are going to be flown by Marines and Sailors to bomb Americans here- I suggest that the idea that such is what someone is preparing for is fucking retarded, because they can't win their fantasy scenario.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Originally Posted By Lacoochee:
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
If you think you are going to use your gun collection to fight whatever fantasy war you are dreaming of, then short of Mad Max style post-apocalyptic world where no one is flying, think again. I had to listen to some moron today talk at a gun shop about taking out aircraft with an M82A1 .50 BMG, and I immediately thought of some certain folks on ARFCOM.

Guess what? If you don't have integrated air defense capabilities in your fantasy war- you're fucked. Because fantasy war, as many Jihadi's can attest, ends the moment a JTAC, JFO, or FAC brings an F/A-18 or AV-8b down on you and blows you up from so far away you can't even see the aircraft.

So my would-be revolutionaries- how do you expect to handle that? Have barns of MANPADs waiting? Guess what? The bird can still outreach you. You have no chance, you can't hide, you can't run, and the NSA has recorded this post 87 different places already.

But seriously- reality is, would be revolutionaries against a 1st world military with complete air superiority? Game. Over. Stop dreaming- or start saying for a MANPAD and the 200$ tax stamp, (which may soon be available over the counter per another thread.)


G-d damnit, I almost feel like an _A hole posting this.


No one has ever said this before....

and no one has ever made these counter observations before:

1.) We don't live in separate communities so carpet bombing would be stupid
2.) The "Troops" are not from another continent so if they choose to make war on other Americans how do they make their families safe, how do they go to the movies or eat out safely ever again?
3.) Many many American are veterans and we are some inventive folks when you get us going.
4.) The "Troops" are us and are overwhelmingly conservative as well as as from the South and Mid-West so why would they be bombing their states and communities again?

I am sure I have missed many many more.

I do not suggest that I believe F/A-18s are going to be flown by Marines and Sailors to bomb Americans here- I suggest that the idea that such is what someone is preparing for is fucking retarded, because they can't win their fantasy scenario.


Have you looked at the state of finances in this country? I am more worried that the Federal Government will collapse under it's own weight like the Soviets did in the same situation and what happens immediately after. Hopefully some State and Local governments can hold the line and keep things working.

The military will be gutted to pay for the FSA.

The number don't lie, look at interest. Our interest payments in the next few years will be more than the total revenue brought in via taxes meaning all government spending will be issued debt!!!

But the assholes in Congress whom you say will send the US Military after any resistors to being debt slaves want to argue over Amnesty, Gay Marriage, and any other bullshit distraction they can think of while they line their pockets and prepare to steal the last nickel and resources we have.




Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:10:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 7:11:44 PM EST by HighLighter]
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
If you think you are going to use your gun collection to fight whatever fantasy war you are dreaming of, then short of Mad Max style post-apocalyptic world where no one is flying, think again. I had to listen to some moron today talk at a gun shop about taking out aircraft with an M82A1 .50 BMG, and I immediately thought of some certain folks on ARFCOM.

Guess what? If you don't have integrated air defense capabilities in your fantasy war- you're fucked. Because fantasy war, as many Jihadi's can attest, ends the moment a JTAC, JFO, or FAC brings an F/A-18 or AV-8b down on you and blows you up from so far away you can't even see the aircraft.

So my would-be revolutionaries- how do you expect to handle that? Have barns of MANPADs waiting? Guess what? The bird can still outreach you. You have no chance, you can't hide, you can't run, and the NSA has recorded this post 87 different places already.

But seriously- reality is, would be revolutionaries against a 1st world military with complete air superiority? Game. Over. Stop dreaming- or start saying for a MANPAD and the 200$ tax stamp, (which may soon be available over the counter per another thread.)


I do not suggest that I believe F/A-18s are going to be flown by Marines and Sailors to bomb Americans here- I suggest that the idea that such is what someone is preparing for is fucking retarded, because they can't win their fantasy scenario.

G-d damnit, I almost feel like an _A hole posting this.
View Quote

Isn't the Taliban still around? Vietnam still communist?
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:11:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

There are a lot of reasons that Afghanistan is important on an economic and strategic level- for example the oil pipelines the Chinese are wanting to put through it, that we want to sway them from allowing. There are entire books on the subject.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Originally Posted By StretchMaK:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By bmason63:
OP talks like we won in Afghanistan...

like asshole farmers lubing their rusty AKs with diesel havent been beating our asses the past 10 years


What was the kill ratio in Afghanistan?





Then why are we still there?

There are a lot of reasons that Afghanistan is important on an economic and strategic level- for example the oil pipelines the Chinese are wanting to put through it, that we want to sway them from allowing. There are entire books on the subject.



10 fucking years and we are going to sway them from something, that is fucking funny.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:12:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 7:16:36 PM EST by Thedude27]
How do you identify the enemy so you can bomb them?

Will they be wearing red coats and walking in a straight line?
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:13:01 PM EST
Also, the moment the gov't sends Troops, it's ON like DONKEY KONG. Think other countries would sit this one out?

Hell no. Russia and China would be foaming at the mouth to fund insurgents. There would probably be several groups as well each fighting for a different cause. A massive power struggle would ensue that would be unlike anything the world has ever seen. Imagine China funding OWS rebels? Russia funding conservative rebels?

We'd also see all the Islamist sleeper cells pop the fuck out. Who'd they fight with, fight against, and how? Not sure.... but it's a reality.

The LEAST of anyone's fears should be the Military bombing our cities. Unrest in the US means unrest for the WORLD.

Can you imagine what happens when investment bankers can't get to their jobs in NYC? The world would come to a stand still.... at least until other financial institutions (probably Chinese) stepped up and usurped control over the international market.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:14:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 68Whiskey10:
I definitely see what OP is saying; in a conventional war pitting the US military agains the US citizenry (implausible, but go with it), military wins. Nothing any of us has is shooting down a B52 at cruising altitude (or probably much of anything else). That said...

The LAPD had a pretty crushing manpower/equipment/air support advantage over Chris Dorner, and he singlehandedly took them on for a week. Not applauding his actions, just pointing it out.
View Quote


I think its sad and arrogant that American citizens look at our bombers and think nothing has a chance against them. And there is no "conventional" by definition if our military is pitted against citizenry. Not knocking you, but I hear it all the time.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:16:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:


I think its sad and arrogant that American citizens look at our bombers and think nothing has a chance against them. And there is no "conventional" by definition if our military is pitted against citizenry. Not knocking you, but I hear it all the time.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By 68Whiskey10:
I definitely see what OP is saying; in a conventional war pitting the US military agains the US citizenry (implausible, but go with it), military wins. Nothing any of us has is shooting down a B52 at cruising altitude (or probably much of anything else). That said...

The LAPD had a pretty crushing manpower/equipment/air support advantage over Chris Dorner, and he singlehandedly took them on for a week. Not applauding his actions, just pointing it out.


I think its sad and arrogant that American citizens look at our bombers and think nothing has a chance against them. And there is no "conventional" by definition if our military is pitted against citizenry. Not knocking you, but I hear it all the time.

If the US mil started bombing neighborhoods, towns, cities.... EVERYONE would turn against them.

Sure, some die hard fed-cock-gobblers would applaud the effort.... but most conservatives, neutrals, libs, and everyone else would instantly WTFU.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:16:22 PM EST
But, but, I thought you could destroy aircraft with a $5 Chinese laser....
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:18:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mac1020:
That's why you don't fight the plane in the air, you attack while the aircraft are on the ground.
View Quote


Better yet, you deny their logistical support in the form of fuel, parts, etc.

Rock has a valid point. Any civil conflict will most likely resemble the troubles in Northern Ireland, only with air/armor assets thrown into the mix. Yugoslavia would be a better example, depending on how the military reacts to the situation.

Drones and armor would be the main threats.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:19:37 PM EST
Cheetos...masturbation...mom's basement...got it...


I guess this means it's time to buy real estate in Iraq, seeing as how it's so safe now that our military is done there...
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:20:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Rock hard 13b (correction, F) needs to consult some of his officers who have been schooled in the subject to see if its possible or even been done befoe.
View Quote


I've been a combat arms officer for a while now- haven't been a 13F or even with the army since 2007.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:20:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
some of you would rather live as slaves than die as free men.... that says a lot.

if the US gov't turns on it's people, many of you would wonder where you could sign up to join.
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This. Basically you have a society that is so soft and pampered that they complain constantly about relatively minor problems (short power outages, not being able to buy "cookie butter" at trader joes, etc.) Most of them aren't going to mobilize to fight to begin with. The ones that do are quickly going to find that the life of an insurgent isn't a luxurious one. The key is to use those masses against the insurgency. A lot of insurgent attacks are coming out of St. Louis? Start constricting the food supply, electricity, & television (internet should always be left on for SIGINT purposes.) They'll likely eject the insurgents and stop supporting them with supplies and materiel. If not, destroy the city (think nuclear bomb) and let it serve as the warning to the others. IIRC that was the backstory for the Hunger Games series...

My point is, use the masses' dependence on creature comforts to control them. Monitor their communications so you know if they're talking to insurgents. Then ruthlessly exterminate the remaining population that comprises the insurgency. Think of it as COIN, adapted for the first world: We're not going to give you a well, we're going those nasty, America hating insurgents from cutting off your electricity and cable TV. Also flood all conventional media with anti-insurgent propaganda, obviously.

Arguing about air superiority is silly IMO. Conflict would never escalate to that level. It'd be more of a police action.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:21:47 PM EST
How many pilots want to go home to burnt out home with their spouse and kids brutally murdered, not many I know. Hell, not many I know willing to even take that risk, and good on them for that.

That airbase going to have enough on-base housing for everyone's family, parents, siblings, uncles, aunt's, grandparents, friends, etc? I'm not being flippant, I'm being dead serious.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:23:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
If you think you are going to use your gun collection to fight whatever fantasy war you are dreaming of, then short of Mad Max style post-apocalyptic world where no one is flying, think again. I had to listen to some moron today talk at a gun shop about taking out aircraft with an M82A1 .50 BMG, and I immediately thought of some certain folks on ARFCOM.

Guess what? If you don't have integrated air defense capabilities in your fantasy war- you're fucked. Because fantasy war, as many Jihadi's can attest, ends the moment a JTAC, JFO, or FAC brings an F/A-18 or AV-8b down on you and blows you up from so far away you can't even see the aircraft.

So my would-be revolutionaries- how do you expect to handle that? Have barns of MANPADs waiting? Guess what? The bird can still outreach you. You have no chance, you can't hide, you can't run, and the NSA has recorded this post 87 different places already.

But seriously- reality is, would be revolutionaries against a 1st world military with complete air superiority? Game. Over. Stop dreaming- or start saying for a MANPAD and the 200$ tax stamp, (which may soon be available over the counter per another thread.)


I do not suggest that I believe F/A-18s are going to be flown by Marines and Sailors to bomb Americans here- I suggest that the idea that such is what someone is preparing for is fucking retarded, because they can't win their fantasy scenario.

G-d damnit, I almost feel like an _A hole posting this.
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note: your newsletter subscriptions are not going to increase.

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:24:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
If you think you are going to use your gun collection to fight whatever fantasy war you are dreaming of, then short of Mad Max style post-apocalyptic world where no one is flying, think again. I had to listen to some moron today talk at a gun shop about taking out aircraft with an M82A1 .50 BMG, and I immediately thought of some certain folks on ARFCOM.

Guess what? If you don't have integrated air defense capabilities in your fantasy war- you're fucked. Because fantasy war, as many Jihadi's can attest, ends the moment a JTAC, JFO, or FAC brings an F/A-18 or AV-8b down on you and blows you up from so far away you can't even see the aircraft.

So my would-be revolutionaries- how do you expect to handle that? Have barns of MANPADs waiting? Guess what? The bird can still outreach you. You have no chance, you can't hide, you can't run, and the NSA has recorded this post 87 different places already.

But seriously- reality is, would be revolutionaries against a 1st world military with complete air superiority? Game. Over. Stop dreaming- or start saying for a MANPAD and the 200$ tax stamp, (which may soon be available over the counter per another thread.)


I do not suggest that I believe F/A-18s are going to be flown by Marines and Sailors to bomb Americans here- I suggest that the idea that such is what someone is preparing for is fucking retarded, because they can't win their fantasy scenario.

G-d damnit, I almost feel like an _A hole posting this.
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While the FA-18's are blowing up the gun store guy the rest of us will be cutting their supply lines...
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