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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/23/2006 6:28:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 6:29:45 AM EDT by xanadu]
Security & Terrorism
New super-gun to be tested in Feb
By PAMELA HESS
UPI Pentagon Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Next month a new high-explosive munition will be fired in Singapore and then tested again by the U.S. Army, heralding what may be a sea change in weaponry: a gun that can fire 240,000 rounds per minute.

That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine gun.

Metal Storm Inc., a munitions company headquartered in Virginia but with its roots in Australia, has been developing a gun that can shoot at blistering speeds, albeit in short bursts as each barrel is reloaded.

A Metal Storm gun of any size -- from a 9 mm hand-gun up to a machine gun size or a grenade launcher -- has no moving parts other than the bullets or munition inside the barrel. Rather than chambering a single slug for each shot - very quickly in the case of machine guns -- the bullets come pre-stacked inside the barrel and can be shot all at once, or one at a time, as the shooter decides through the electronic controls.

Because there are no moving parts, the weapon is less likely to jam, and will presumably need less maintenance.

Lashing many barrels together increases the number of rounds per second. Once fired, however, each spent barrel has to be reloaded.

Starting in 2006 the company will demonstrate its prototypes with applicability that is especially likely to interest the U.S. military. The weapon system can be mounted on an unmanned ground combat vehicle, an unmanned aerial vehicle, and might be used as a defense against rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.

Metal Storm's speed allows it to lay down a blinding wall of slugs that can intercept and pulverize incoming enemy fire, according to company CEO David Smith. As long as the grenade or mortar is fired from outside a range of about 50 meters or 162.5 feet and a Doppler radar is in use, a Metal Storm system could be an effective defense, he told UPI.

Closer than that and there is just not time to react.

"But if you are from 50 meters and beyond, if everything can work fast enough -- the radar -- there is enough time mathematically" to shoot down incoming fire, Smith said.

At least 153 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq by enemy rockets and mortars since the start of the war. Nearly 2,000 have been wounded.

The grenade launcher barrel can also carry less-than-lethal munitions, like small bean bags, sponge grenades or smoke. On Jan. 16, the Army awarded Metal Storm a $975,000 contract to further develop its non-lethal rounds.

"Our so-called competition is (the) Mk19 - grenade machine gun," Smith said. "It's enormously heavy. It takes six people to carry it into a battlefield scene. It's not mobile.

"But the military has had this transition out of big system warfighting into much lighter, higher firepower that can be carried into battle by individuals or light vehicles. Our guns have no moving parts -- so they have the same amount of fire power at significantly reduced weight ratio."

Metal Storm technology has been under development for about a decade, but a series of small-business innovative research contracts awarded recently by the Department of Energy and the Army mean prototypes are now being produced and demonstrated.

"We are to the point we can start providing prototypes. The Army is very, very parochial in how they buy weapon systems," Smith said. "But now we can put it into an actual environment."

The company is also studying whether it can mount a Metal Storm weapon on a small helicopter, particularly looking at the recoil effect from the gun.

Smith said such a system - deployable down to the squad level -- could be useful in a place like Iraq, where it's a common tactic for insurgents to launch a mortar and then run. By the time soldiers on foot or in a vehicle get to the launch site, the shooters are long gone. But a UAV quickly launched can see where the shooters run to, and if a gun is on board, can shoot at them.

The Australian military is testing a Metal Storm gun of its own, the Advanced Individual Combat Weapon (AICW). The AICW combines both an assault rifle and a 40 mm grenade launcher in a single unit with a common trigger, allowing the shooter to choose which munition he wants to fire without having to refit his weapon. It also allows three grenades to be fired at once, whereas one is the only option in the current generation of weapons.

Metal Storm Inc. will demonstrate a high-explosive munition with a 10-meter (32.5 feet) or burst radius in Singapore on Feb. 6, Smith said, and for the Army's Picatinny Arsenal and Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center later that month.


© Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved
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Holy Crap!
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:30:08 AM EDT
Metal Storm has been the premier producer of flash animations for several years.

It's also built a few actual prototype weapons.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:31:27 AM EDT
I have a video of a metal storm doing 1,000,000 RPM.


That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine gun.


^^ I believe they have their facts slightly confused here.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:31:37 AM EDT
Welcome to 5 years ago.


Another solution looking for a problem.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:33:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Welcome to 5 years ago.


Another solution looking for a problem.



Missile defense on ships, mortar/rocket attack defense for bases in hostile zones.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:33:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:36:04 AM EDT
I just don't really get why this weapon is such a great idea. When you are shooting somebody is 240,000 rounds per minute all that much better than the output of a modern gatling gun?

It also seems to me that, instead of discarding empty brass, you are now discarding empty barrels. That's not to mention the differences in ballistics between the first round fired and the last one.

I would love to see it in action, but I am not so sure that it is such a fantastically better solution to any actual military problem.

Can anyone explain any real world application in which this is significantly superior to conventional machine guns?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:40:43 AM EDT
and then there's the reporters quote:

"That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine gun. "

That would have to be one of the slowest machine guns ever -- one round per second! Any of our bump-fire experts here on AR15.com could beat that rate of fire.

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:48:02 AM EDT
Any transferrable ones out there??

Thatd draw a crowd at the range.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:49:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Welcome to 5 years ago.


Another solution looking for a problem.



Yep old. saw it in popular mechanics years ago.
Neat idea, but they have to do it and make it work.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:49:56 AM EDT
6 people to carry a Mk-19, huh? It's supposed to be a two man lift and ends up being a one-man lift, almost always.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:53:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 6:55:22 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By Zack3g:

That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine gun.


^^ I believe they have their facts slightly confused here.


hey, i got me a standard military machinegun!!!

man, 240,000 40mm he per minute!!! wouldn't THAT make an impact in fallujah???
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:55:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

Originally Posted By Zack3g:

That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine gun.


^^ I believe they have their facts slightly confused here.


hey, i got me a standard military machinegun!!!

man, 240,000 40mm he per minute!!! wouldn't THAT make an impact in fallujah???



after that, what fallujah?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:56:06 AM EDT
Let's see, at twenty cents a round, a day at the range would cost . . .
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:56:45 AM EDT

A gun that can fire 240,000 rounds per minute!


Manufactured in NJ. Has a magazine capacity of 15.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:57:25 AM EDT
Metal Storm is old news.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:06:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Q3131A:

A gun that can fire 240,000 rounds per minute!


Manufactured in NJ. Has a magazine capacity of 15.



Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:06:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 7:28:16 AM EDT by Hokie]
Only squatdog could withstand a full power shot from Metal Storm
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:08:31 AM EDT
Heck, a 10/22 can do that, and penetrate a building from a mile away, too.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:16:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Welcome to 5 years ago.


Another solution looking for a problem.



Yep old. saw it in popular mechanics years ago.
Neat idea, but they have to do it and make it work.



And then they have to show that it is better for some real world purpose than the current machine guns.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:05:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Welcome to 5 years ago.


Another solution looking for a problem.



Missile defense on ships, mortar/rocket attack defense for bases in hostile zones.



Another vote for point defense.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:07:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
I just don't really get why this weapon is such a great idea. When you are shooting somebody is 240,000 rounds per minute all that much better than the output of a modern gatling gun?

It also seems to me that, instead of discarding empty brass, you are now discarding empty barrels. That's not to mention the differences in ballistics between the first round fired and the last one.

I would love to see it in action, but I am not so sure that it is such a fantastically better solution to any actual military problem.

Can anyone explain any real world application in which this is significantly superior to conventional machine guns?



Just because you CAN shoot 240,000 rounds per minute doesn't mean you ever will. I think that is just a number dumb reporters latch on to and the promoters use to dazzle them. The animations I've seen show some good examples of uses. Thousands of rounds hitting the target area at exactly the same time, not in a string, would be pretty crazy. And again, this seems perfect for point defense.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:22:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:25:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:26:02 AM EDT
Regardless, I wouldn't stand in front of it.

I think it's possibilities for remote border patrol (IE Mexico) would be fantastic.

I hope the INS is paying attention.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:32:55 AM EDT
taggage for vid
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:34:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 8:35:36 AM EDT by beernut]
old news

btw...I believe this is an oxymoron

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:35:28 AM EDT
1: caseless rounds
2: How many shots do ya really need?
3: If you cant kill it with the sh!t we got now, 240k rounds prolly aint gonna help
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:35:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 8:37:22 AM EDT by ArmedAggie]

Originally Posted By beernut:
old news

btw...is that an oxymoron?



99% of the topics discussed are old news or rehashing the same damn subjects!

"Kennedy - How Many Shooters?"

"Waco -....."

"Cats suck..."

ETA: How appropriate that the guy who gets in right before me has that screen name.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:48:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 8:54:29 AM EDT by wolfman97]

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
I just don't really get why this weapon is such a great idea. When you are shooting somebody is 240,000 rounds per minute all that much better than the output of a modern gatling gun?

It also seems to me that, instead of discarding empty brass, you are now discarding empty barrels. That's not to mention the differences in ballistics between the first round fired and the last one.

I would love to see it in action, but I am not so sure that it is such a fantastically better solution to any actual military problem.

Can anyone explain any real world application in which this is significantly superior to conventional machine guns?



Just because you CAN shoot 240,000 rounds per minute doesn't mean you ever will. I think that is just a number dumb reporters latch on to and the promoters use to dazzle them. The animations I've seen show some good examples of uses. Thousands of rounds hitting the target area at exactly the same time, not in a string, would be pretty crazy. And again, this seems perfect for point defense.



Well, my question is still how is this substantially better than any current method? 10,000 rounds in 10 square feet is substantially more lethal than 100 rounds in 10 square feet? IIRC, current mini guns can get pretty close to 100 percent kills for any patch of ground they want to carpet. You can put 500 pounds of lead on target but the job was probably done before you got to five pounds of lead.

What about relative costs and logistics? What happens to all those rifle barrels that have been shot out? Do you just chuck them in the desert or do you haul them half way across the world again to reload them? Aren't rifle barrels (especially of the kind that could sustain that rate of fire) substantially more expensive than brass cartridge cases?

Wouldn't this arrangement be a whole lot heavier than a current mini-gun and a shitload of ammunition?

What do you if you get a dud halfway down the tube? Is the whole tube out of commission? What if you get some screw up in the firing sequence? Are you going to blow that tube to smithereens?

What about ballistics? Isn't there a big difference between the first bullet and the last one? Do you not care about accuracy and are just hoping that a complete blanket of lead will solve the military problem?

I grant you it is cool. I don't see how it is BETTER.

ETA: I recall thinking of this basic idea when I was a kid. I thought it over and concluded even then that it wouldn't be worthwhile just because it isn't a good trade-off to use steel barrels for brass cartridge cases, for a lot of reasons. You wind up carrying more weight for the same amount of lead, barrels cost more than brass, and you have real ballistics issues. What this project needs is a rifle barrel that is as light as about ten or fifteen brass cartridges and costs about the same. Until then, it is nothing more than some interesting fireworks.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 10:48:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Wouldn't this arrangement be a whole lot heavier than a current mini-gun and a shitload of ammunition?



There you go…

Supplying these beasties with food will be the limiting factory… How many rounds to feed one could you actually get on a M1 sized chassis? A close in air defense weapon that has to tow around 5 tractor trailers to feed it is not going to be very handy. A close in air defense weapon that eats up a huge amount of ships space to store ammo is it really better that the alternatives.

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 10:57:14 AM EDT
Chuck Norris could withstand 240,000 rounds per minute for 234 consecutive years!
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:02:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 11:03:53 AM EDT by Dusty_C]

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Welcome to 5 years ago.


Another solution looking for a problem.

More like 10, I have a book somewhere about an armed revolution in the united states. This weapon was featured in it. I wish I knew where it was, I have hundreds of books stacked up in storage but I don't know if it got left at my ex wifes or not.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:54:50 AM EDT
the metal storm is designed to be used in burst fire, depending on the target. infantry - fraction of a second. vehicles 1-2seconds.

people dont realize what kind of fire power this is. i found the XM214 microgun had a ROF of a whopping 10,000 rounds per minute thats one of the fastest shooting machines guns i could find.. that metal storm does it in just 2.5 seconds. 240,000rpm is 4,000rounds per second. so one metal storm would be the equivalent of 24 - XM214, which has more firepower per pound now?

now as for the barrels, these are not precision machined chromed lined match grade barrels. the barrel quality is low and most likely designed to be thrown away meaning they are cheap and inexpensive. precision is not metal storms main idea. its putting 10,000 rounds in one area very quickly.

i think its most practicle purpose would be unmanned guard towers. like Hokie said, boarder potrol would be an interesting aspect. or setup a perimiter of these around some troops, keep them safe inside that area. or anti air to ground missles. these things could just make a blanket of fire power around an area, protecting it from missle attack.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:00:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
I just don't really get why this weapon is such a great idea. When you are shooting somebody is 240,000 rounds per minute all that much better than the output of a modern gatling gun?

It also seems to me that, instead of discarding empty brass, you are now discarding empty barrels. That's not to mention the differences in ballistics between the first round fired and the last one.

I would love to see it in action, but I am not so sure that it is such a fantastically better solution to any actual military problem.

Can anyone explain any real world application in which this is significantly superior to conventional machine guns?



Just because you CAN shoot 240,000 rounds per minute doesn't mean you ever will. I think that is just a number dumb reporters latch on to and the promoters use to dazzle them. The animations I've seen show some good examples of uses. Thousands of rounds hitting the target area at exactly the same time, not in a string, would be pretty crazy. And again, this seems perfect for point defense.



As has been said, it has been demonstrated that it can do 1,000,000 rounds per second
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:22:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Can anyone explain any real world application in which this is significantly superior to conventional machine guns?



It sounds like the general consensus of the replies here is that something like this would be used in an APERS role, when in fact, it probably wouldn't...at least not initially. I think they are trying to play and develop off of the current MK 15 CIWS phalanx array design. It really could have alot of applications, but its purpose is to lay down a literal "wall of lead" via radar tracking that will destroy or disable incoming munitions. In this scenario, volume of fire is crucial. Human reactions are just not fast enough to get a weapon of comparable firepower on target, calculating lead angles, distances, etc. of hypothetical missiles or other projectiles.

It would seem to me that something this complex would need a large power source and would be tied to some sort of tracking system, which would weigh too much and be too cumbersome to make it infantry mountable, at least with the current technology.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:28:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By x5060

As has been said, it has been demonstrated that it can do 1,000,000 rounds per second



i think you meant to say 1,000,000 rounds per minute. although it doesnt shoot 1,000,000 rounds. its shoot at a rate of 1,000,000 rounds per minute
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:55:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Regardless, I wouldn't stand in front of it.

I think it's possibilities for remote border patrol (IE Mexico) would be fantastic.

I hope the INS is paying attention.



ROFL!!! I figured this was going to be another metal storm topic so I clicked to see if my prediction was right.
Your comment made it all worth it.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:01:17 PM EDT
What they seem to forget is that the rate of fire is deceptive. They are talking about a cyclic rate of fire, not a sustained rate of fire. Don't forget, what would it take to load that 240,000 rounds for one minute of firing and how much space would that take.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:07:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Welcome to 5 years ago.


Another solution looking for a problem.



Missile defense on ships, mortar/rocket attack defense for bases in hostile zones.



Another vote for point defense.


A nay for point defense, at least for ships. You have to overcome the difference in ballistics. Then you have to worry about just how many rounds to shoot. Not to mention there is a shift away from gun-based point defense to missile based for the very reason of shrapnel hitting the ship. Not to mention if your target performs some sort of terminal manuever you just fired into the wrong piece of sky. A missile has the potential to track through manuevers.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:20:45 PM EDT
New Jersey gun banners have already found a real-world application for this technology. Metalstorm is working with a NJ university to develop a "smart" handgun - one that can only be fired by an authorized user. According to a very reliable source, Metalstorm's technology is necessary because the grip of the new gun cannot accomodate a traditional magazine - the grip is completely filled with electronic circuitry(!) that recognizes the user. Thus the need for preloaded barrels. The worst part is that once smart guns become commercially available, they will be the only kinds of handguns available for sale to the NJ public. LE, of course, is exempted.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:28:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Welcome to 5 years ago.


Another solution looking for a problem.



Actually, welcome to nearly 20 years ago IIRC.
Seems like Metal Storm's been around in one prototype format or another for what seems like forever.
And still no-one's adopted it


I wonder why......................

Mark
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:35:38 PM EDT
they got some really neat ideas.... balnket area denial, point defense and aicraft mounted pods.... fly over, instantly fires straight down....
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:37:38 PM EDT
WTF? by Pamela Hess? That's my wife's name...

No pictures yet? Tag I guess.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:50:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
WTF? by Pamela Hess? That's my wife's name...

No pictures yet? Tag I guess.



i think this is the one they are talking about. its a 16 barrel 40mm grenade pod. there is plenty of cool videos on their site



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