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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/28/2002 9:05:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 9:16:30 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
[b][url=http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/1127951.html]College freshmen more liberal, less apathetic, poll finds[/url][/b] "For instance, a record percentage -- 57.9 percent -- think gay couples should have the legal right to marry. The highest portion in two decades -- 32.2 percent -- say the death penalty should be abolished. And more than one-third -- the highest rate since 1980 -- say marijuana should be legalized, although 75 percent also say employers should be allowed to require drug tests of workers and applicants. Still, about half of the class' members, in line with their recent predecessors, view themselves as "middle of the road" politically. And 20.7 percent consider themselves conservative or "far right," while 29.9 percent -- the highest figure since 1975 -- say they are liberal or "far left." More from the [b][url=http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/heri/heri.html]Higher Education Research Institute Homepage[/url][/b] RECORD NUMBER REPORT NO RELIGIOUS PREFERENCE "When asked to indicate their current religious preference, an all-time high of 15.8 percent of students reported none RECORD LEVELS OF ACADEMIC DISENGAGEMENT, RECORD HIGH GRADES Today’s college freshmen continue to be academically disengaged. An all-time record high 41.1 percent of students report feeling frequently bored in class during their senior year in high school, up from last year (39.7 percent) and a low of 29.3 percent in 1985. Freshmen also are continuing the trend of tardiness with a record high of 65.1 percent of students who came late to class frequently or occasionally during the last year, compared to 64.5 percent last year and a low of 48.2 percent in 1966. The number of students who overslept and missed a class or an appointment as high school seniors also increased from 35.3 percent last year to 35.6 percent in 2001, nearly doubling the rate of 19.6 percent reported in 1968. The survey also finds that students spent less time studying and doing homework, with only 34.9 percent of entering students reporting studying or working on assignments for six or more hours per week in the past year. This marks the lowest figure since this question was first asked in 1987, when 47 percent reported studying six or more hours weekly. Although students are spending less time studying, their high school grades continue to soar with 44.1 percent of freshmen report earning "A" averages in high school, compared to 42.9 percent last year, and a low of 17.6 percent in 1968. "The combination of academic disengagement and record grade inflation," says Astin, "poses a real challenge for our higher education system, since students are entering college with less inclination to study but with higher academic expectations than ever." [i](Just like in Lake Wobegone - all the children are above average!!)[/i] Nothing about gun ownership or gun-control laws listed in this survey. But based on the above indicators, you can bet there'll be a lot more political "activists" flooding out of the Universities pushing a lot more gun-banning laws in the coming years. Edited to add: Actually there was a question on gun control in the survey: "The federal government should do more to control the sale of handguns (agree strongly, agree somewhat, disagree somewhat, disagree strongly) The actual results of all question are available for a fee.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:06:16 AM EDT
[sigh]
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:12:09 AM EDT
Interesting. With "Freshman" as a base-line I would be curious to see the results of the exact same poll/study conducted with "Seniors" in their last semester/quarter. [?]
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:18:40 AM EDT
"If you're not a liberal at the age of 18, you have no heart and if you're not a conservative by the age of 30, you have no brain." I've never had a heart. [;D]
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:24:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 9:25:56 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
I believe one of the 'Supremes' (Kennedy(?)) is expressing concern - publicly - about the lack of outrage regarding 9/11 by our "youth". (If "youth" was defined I don't remember the definition.)
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:28:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 9:29:29 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Interesting. With "Freshman" as a base-line I would be curious to see the results of the exact same poll/study conducted with "Seniors" in their last semester/quarter. [?]
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I have no expectations that four (actually five for most) years of brainwashing in the most Marxist/socialist institutions in our nation will make them any less liberal. What a combination though: Liberal Attitudes + High Expectations + Low Effort + Low Morals = Masses of sheeple depending on cradle-to-grave Gov't assistance to get through life.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:30:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MarineGrunt: "If you're not a liberal at the age of 18, you have no heart and if you're not a conservative by the age of 30, you have no brain."
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~ Winston Churchill.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:46:15 AM EDT
Don't worry one bit. Many studies have shown that each day around 13 of these children are slaughtered at the hands of evil guns. We'll be free of them in no time.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:48:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 9:49:44 AM EDT by KBaker]
If you're a liberal, anything you say is protected. If you're a conservative, anything you say is hateful. Laura Schlessinger Edited to add: Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others. Ambrose Bierce
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:49:15 AM EDT
I am a college senior. A lot of these kids won't learn a thing in college. TV is the greatest influence on our society today. Some will wise up. I did my Junior year. Shawn
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:50:55 AM EDT
The_Macallan espoused: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By MarineGrunt: "If you're not a liberal at the age of 18, you have no heart and if you're not a conservative by the age of 30, you have no brain." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ~ Winston Churchill.
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Not Winston Churchill. [url]http://www.winstonchurchill.org/bonmots2.htm[/url]
These quotes make for good story-telling but popular myth has falsely attributed them to Churchill. "Conservative by the time you're 35" If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." There is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this. Paul Addison of Edinburgh University makes this comment: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! and would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal.
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Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:53:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By MarineGrunt: "If you're not a liberal at the age of 18, you have no heart and if you're not a conservative by the age of 30, you have no brain."
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~ Winston Churchill.
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Oops. Forgot to add that. Thanks!
Don't worry one bit. Many studies have shown that each day around 13 of these children are slaughtered at the hands of evil guns.
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LMAO! I'm not worried about it. I think during these times, people will see the light of conservatisim. Young kids in school are mostly liberal because they haven't learned to use their brain yet. I know, because every once in a while I challange my fellow classmates on issues and a lot of times they end up stumped or just spewing more BS, just so they are still making an argument. Most of them will wake up soon though.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 11:05:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 11:05:52 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By MarineGrunt: I'm not worried about it. I think during these times, people will see the light of conservatisim. Young kids in school are mostly liberal because they haven't learned to use their brain yet. I know, because every once in a while I challange my fellow classmates on issues and a lot of times they end up stumped or just spewing more BS, just so they are still making an argument. Most of them will wake up soon though.
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I wish I could share your optimism. I encounter these uneducated-liberal-know-it-alls every day at the College level. As any honest Prof will attest, it's only getting worse. There's more and more of them, they're dumber and dumber each semester, have increasingly rotten "I-deserve-an-A" attitudes and are just an all around pain in the ass. A large portion of my students fail/drop my courses. I guess they eventually go into psychology, journalism, marketing or sociology.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 11:11:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Interesting. With "Freshman" as a base-line I would be curious to see the results of the exact same poll/study conducted with "Seniors" in their last semester/quarter. [?]
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I have no expectations that four (actually five for most) years of brainwashing in the most Marxist/socialist institutions in our nation will make them any less liberal. What a combination though: Liberal Attitudes + High Expectations + Low Effort + Low Morals = Masses of sheeple depending on cradle-to-grave Gov't assistance to get through life.
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Probably you are correct - unfortunately. But still if even just as an intellectual exercise............ (I should allow for the possibility of more liberal. But I just don't think so.)
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 11:15:56 AM EDT
Macallan- You may be right. I probably don't notice it as much because I go to school in North Dakota, which is a pretty conservative state. At least there's one bright side of this hell-hole! [:)]
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 11:31:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: [b][url=http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/1127951.html]College freshmen more liberal, less apathetic, poll finds[/url][/b] "For instance, a record percentage -- 57.9 percent -- think gay couples should have the legal right to marry. The highest portion in two decades -- 32.2 percent -- say the death penalty should be abolished. And more than one-third -- the highest rate since 1980 -- say marijuana should be legalized, although 75 percent also say employers should be allowed to require drug tests of workers and applicants. Still, about half of the class' members, in line with their recent predecessors, view themselves as "middle of the road" politically. And 20.7 percent consider themselves conservative or "far right," while 29.9 percent -- the highest figure since 1975 -- say they are liberal or "far left."
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What's wrong with any of this?
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: A large portion of my students fail/drop my courses. I guess they eventually go into psychology, journalism, marketing or sociology.
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What do you teach?
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 12:11:29 PM EDT
Well, I for one [b]am[/b] a college freshman currently attending one of the most liberal colleges in Texas, the University of Texas. I am neither liberal nor apathetic. In fact, I fully support the 2nd amendment and own both handguns and some rifles including an AR-15. Be careful not to over generalize because you end up sounding like "them." First, anyone who has ever taken a statistics course could tell you that pretty much all of those statistics are bullshit. Plain and simple. Polls [b]more often than not[/b] are horribly bias, of which is developed by lack of randomness and preferential choice of respondents. And secondly, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU POLL FRESHMEN!?!?!?! I mean come on. Most of them have no clue what they are going to be doing in four years; furthermore, a large portion of these college students will come to find that college and higher learning is not for them and drop out. Not that this is a bad thing; however, grouping their opinions, biasisms, and political outlooks with those that intend to graduate and finish what they started is pointless. And about the part about students earning higher grades whilst studying less, what's the point? Either a.) Despite how "my generation" is supposedly becoming more stupid, more lazy, and less driven, we are still learning beyond the curve or b.) For some reason, the teachers at the schools are becoming easier, which is NOT the students problem. Of course this is also one more thing that could be happening. The statistics here may also be false. In conclusion, I find this report to be off base at best and totally inaccurate at worse. - Matt
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 12:41:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Magnus357: Well, I for one [b]am[/b] a college freshman currently attending one of the most liberal colleges in Texas, the University of Texas. I am neither liberal nor apathetic. In fact, I fully support the 2nd amendment and own both handguns and some rifles including an AR-15. Be careful not to over generalize because you end up sounding like "them." First, anyone who has ever taken a statistics course could tell you that pretty much all of those statistics are bullshit. Plain and simple. Polls [b]more often than not[/b] are horribly bias, of which is developed by lack of randomness and preferential choice of respondents. And secondly, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU POLL FRESHMEN!?!?!?! I mean come on. Most of them have no clue what they are going to be doing in four years; furthermore, a large portion of these college students will come to find that college and higher learning is not for them and drop out. Not that this is a bad thing; however, grouping their opinions, biasisms, and political outlooks with those that intend to graduate and finish what they started is pointless. And about the part about students earning higher grades whilst studying less, what's the point? Either a.) Despite how "my generation" is supposedly becoming more stupid, more lazy, and less driven, we are still learning beyond the curve or b.) For some reason, the teachers at the schools are becoming easier, which is NOT the students problem. Of course this is also one more thing that could be happening. The statistics here may also be false. In conclusion, I find this report to be off base at best and totally inaccurate at worse. - Matt
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You have a point about using (or missusing) statistics. But it's the [b]trend[/b] that alarms me right now. If they ask the same biased question each year (which they say they do), the increasing trend in liberal responses is what I dread. If the statistics flew in the face of what I see everyday on campus, I would discount the report. But it doesn't, it confirms what I see. [b]Halfcocked[/b], what's wrong is that there is a growing trend for for more self-described "liberals" in our burgeoning young adults. That's NEVER a good sign of things to come. In response to your second question, it varies from semester to semester, generally microbiology immunology or physiology.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 2:20:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DavidC: Not Winston Churchill. [url]http://www.winstonchurchill.org/bonmots2.htm[/url]
These quotes make for good story-telling but popular myth has falsely attributed them to Churchill. "Conservative by the time you're 35" If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." There is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this. Paul Addison of Edinburgh University makes this comment: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! and would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal.
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Thanks for the "demythification". I stand corrected.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 2:35:45 PM EDT
I have considered a liberal mind set as one that values liberty. If 2 gays want to pay more in federal income tax ( until just recently) why should we not let them. The only thing I would disagree with in your 1st paragraph is the position on the death penalty.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 2:46:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: I have considered a liberal mind set as one that values liberty. If 2 gays want to pay more in federal income tax ( until just recently) why should we not let them.
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Then you are operating under a different definition of "liberal" than what today's liberal is. Today's liberal is not at all about "liberty". It is about far left-wing collectivism. Lack of personal freedom and personal responsibility. Group-think. Institutional political correctness. The intolerance of "forced-tolerance".
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 2:47:17 PM EDT
at the ripe old age of 16 I am the most coservative, sleeps with an "evil black rifle" under his bed, would have voted for bush if I could, want to join the military the day I am old enough person I know (well friends who were special forces excluded). I am about as conservative as they come. so there is hope. on the other hand I have notice that atleast in my highschool (even though the study concerns college students) the freshman are all liberal as hell. hell If I wern't a high ranking officer in rotc I wouldn't be very popular at all just because of my conservative views.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 2:48:56 PM EDT
Another great reason to raise the voting and induction, along with alcohol consumption age to 21. Not sure I want another group of people who don't pay taxes and think like this to be selecting our nation's elected leadership. Thank God for their apathy, along with their other liberal attributes! Magnus 357: No offense intended, you seem okay. BTW, "we are still learning beyond the curve" does not equate with the renorming of the SAT and other standardized tests a few years ago.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 7:46:28 PM EDT
Liberalism has always been a facet of college life. I've dared to espouse "conservative" ideals (although, I don't think being a libertarian makes me a conservative) and been roundly denounced as a "bigot," "intolerant Republican," "compassionate conservative who is only compassionate about his checkbook," etc. When I asked a group of socialists why I should have to pay for the mistakes of others through my taxes I was answered with the typical liberal moan about helping those who need a little help, blah, blah. Most of these kids don't get it, and probably won't until they get out into the real world and want more than just some dumpy one room apartment and fridge full of beer. When they see their paychecks being raped by gov.org they will become fast conservatives. The Republican generation of today was the hippie/anti-establishment/pro-Communism generation of the 60s and 70s. They will learn when they get jobs. A Republican is a Democrat who got a job.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 8:56:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 8:58:14 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By Redmanfms: The Republican generation of today was the hippie/anti-establishment/pro-Communism generation of the 60s and 70s. They will learn when they get jobs.
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[b]No, the hippie/anti-establishment/pro-Communism generation of the 60s and 70s is now running CBS/NBC/ABC/MTV/CNNAOLTIMEWARNER/SierraClub/ PETA/QUEERNATION/MMM/HOLLYWOOD/HCI/PUSH/ACTUP/ NAACP/NOW/NewBlackPanthers/ DemocraticNat'lComittee/Yale/Cornell/UCBerkley/ AMA/PTA/YourKidsElementarySchool...[/b]
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:25:01 PM EDT
It's funny they should mention apathy among school students, as directed toward the study environment... When I was in primary school (up until about grade 4) the teachers recognised the fact that I was ahead of the rest of the class - and encouraged that. My mother made sure I knew how to read, and in kindergarten I was found (during naptime) with either the day's newspaper or the Reader's Digest if it came in that day. By third grade I was working on introductory algebra. I understood the use of an encyclopaedia, and was already cultivating an interest in physical sciences and advanced trades. I was already working wiht an uncle to restore cars by then, and was helping my grandfather with building ultralight aircraft. Starting in fourth grade, I was being shuttled into the "one size fits all" mentality with which public education cirricula are developed, and my grades dropped accordingly. Ennui and apathy began to take hold, and I began to lose interest. I also began to revert to a more normal (for me) sleeping pattern. My circadian rhythms are reversed from normal, leaving me bright and alert at night and draggy and fatigued during the day. Cause unknown, but probably latently psychological. By seventh grade, my GPA had fallen to a heathy 1.5 or thereabouts. "Experts" were called, and I spent three days in psychological evaluation and testing. Bear in mind that I had been loudly announcing my boredom for hte last three years... Three days of testing revealed an IQ in the deep 180's, and the verdict "He's bored." Duh. I managed to pull up to about a 3.25 by the end of my senior year, but real interest in high school academia never fully returned. However, I did begin taking university credit courses at Purdue concurrent with high school - and that was just in time to rekindle an interest in learning... Oddly enough, I learn FAR better in non-traditional situations - like correspondence courses or OJT - than any traditional formalised environment. You see, apathy toward academia is not always a product of generalised apathy or ennui, nor is it a reliable indicator of liberal bent. Just as there are those who learn slower than the norm (witness "Special Ed,") there are those who will surpass the system quickly. As we hold hands with the slower students, we must allow those with wings to fly at their own speed and maintain a heathy interest in education, or we will lose them. I continue my education by my own means, and I learn far more in a year on my own that I did in four (actually, three and a half) years of high school. I wanted to graduate a full year early and get out of the system, but Indiana State law forbade it (but, since I was already on a first-name basis with the principal, he was trying to get an exception. I think I gave him ulcers....) FFZ
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