Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/29/2006 11:28:02 AM EDT

Science has always lead to homosexuality. It is time that we sarted putting science in its place. Like the article says: "There's no proof that the Earth rotates."

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/news/world/14202379.htm


'Galileo Was Wrong,' claims geocentrist writer
By DRU SEFTON
NEWHOUSE NEWS SERVICE

Bible proves Earth is center of universe, author argues

The Earth is at the center of Robert Sungenis' universe. Literally.

Yours too, he says.

Sungenis is a geocentrist. He contends the sun orbits the Earth instead of vice versa. He says physics and the Bible show that the vastness of space revolves around us; that we're at the center of everything, on a planet that does not rotate.

He has just completed a 1,000-page tome, "Galileo Was Wrong," the first in a pair of books he hopes will persuade readers to "give Scripture its due place, and show that science is not all it's cracked up to be."

Geocentrism is a less-known cousin of the intelligent design, or anti-evolution, movement. Both question society's trust in science, instead using religion to explain how we got here - and, in geocentrism's case, just where "here" is.

Mention geocentrism and physicist Lawrence Krauss sighs. He is director of the Center for Education and Research in Cosmology and Astrophysics at Case Western Reserve University and author of several books including "Fear of Physics: A Guide for the Perplexed."

"What works? Science works. Geocentrism doesn't. End of story," Krauss said from Cleveland. "I've learned over time that it's hard to convince people who believe otherwise, independent of evidence."

To Sungenis, of Greencastle, Pa., evidence is the rub.

For several years the Web site of his Catholic Apologetics International (www.catholicintl.com) offered a $1,000 reward to anyone who could disprove geocentrism and prove heliocentrism (a sun-centered solar system).

There were numerous attempts, Sungenis said, "some serious, some caustic," but no one did it to his satisfaction. "Most admitted it can't be proven."

There's also no proof that the Earth rotates, he said.

But what about Foucault's famous pendulum? Its plane of oscillation revolves every 24 hours, showing the rotation of the planet. If the Earth didn't rotate, it wouldn't oscillate.

Nope, Sungenis said: There just may be some other force propelling it, such as the pull of stars.

Pendulum proves nothing

What Foucault's pendulum does prove to Sungenis is that science is full of things that cannot be proven. And in the absence of proof, the Bible has answers.

"If you see the Earth as just a humdrum planet among stars circling in a vast universe, then we're not significant, we're just part of a crowd," Sungenis said. "But if you believe everything revolves around Earth, it gives another picture - of purpose, a meaning of life."

Sungenis' background is in both theology and science. He said he was a physics major at George Washington University but received his bachelor's degree in religious studies from GW, and a master's in the same from Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia. His religious studies doctorate came this year from Calamus International University, which identifies itself on its Web site as a "nontraditional institution."

About four years ago Sungenis read "Geocentricity," by physicist Gerardus Bouw.

"That put me hot on the trail," Sungenis said.

He came to rethink the work of Nicolaus Copernicus, the 15th-century Polish astronomer who advanced heliocentrism over the Ptolemaic, or Earth-centered, system.

"Einstein told us there is no center, that any point in the universe can serve as the center," Sungenis said. "If that's the case, Einstein has undermined Copernicus. You can't prove either one."

However, several biblical passages including Joshua 10:13 (In which the sun, at the Lord's command, temporarily "stood still in the midst of heaven") mention the sun, not the Earth, as the body that is normally in motion.

Growing, not convincing

There are no statistics on numbers of geocentrists. Sungenis said he thinks it's "definitely growing, both nationally and internationally."

Marshall Hall is one. He's been researching it since 1980, and posted his Web site, www.fixedearth.com, in 1997.

Hall realizes it's a tough sell.

"Normally the reaction is, 'You've got to be crazy,"' he said from his home in Cornelia, Ga.

So sometimes he uses this illustration story:

You want to travel from Washington, D.C., to San Francisco. If the Earth is turning, why not just hover in a helicopter? Wait a few hours above the East Coast and eventually the West Coast will be underneath you.

It doesn't work that way, said astrophysicist and biblical scholar Robert C. Newman: The helicopter is moving eastward along with the Earth's atmosphere at hundreds of miles per hour. So the helicopter actually needs to move hundreds of miles per hour westward to compensate.

"If it does, then... San Francisco will show up in several hours," Newman said.

Bible, science studied

Newman calls geocentrism "crackpot science."

He has a Cornell University doctorate in theoretical astrophysics and a master's in the Old Testament from Biblical Theological Seminary in Hatfield, Pa., where he teaches and directs the Interdisciplinary Biblical Research Institute.

To Newman, science reveals itself through equations. Take gravity.

"Galileo was realizing it in a rather vague way; Newton worked out the equations for it," Newman said. "Those equations are what all space travel is based upon. They have been proven as much as science can prove anything."

There are different opinions among scientists on many topics, Newman said. For instance, he favors intelligent design over evolution.

Case closed, physicist says

Meanwhile, Sungenis wants to make sure "people don't classify geocentrists with Flat Earthers. We don't believe that at all."

British physicist and writer Alec MacAndrew is certain of one thing - the Earth orbiting the sun and revolving on its axis "has been resolved as far as professional scientists are concerned."

Furthermore, MacAndrew said, "The Bible has no part in scientific discussion - none whatsoever."

Or, as Galileo famously quoted 16th century Cardinal Caesar Baronius, "The Bible was written to show us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go."

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:34:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 11:34:35 AM EDT by Gunplay]
jesus, people are stupid.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:37:21 AM EDT

Awesome!!





Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:37:47 AM EDT
Great, so will the nutjobs start putting "Rotation around the sun is just a theory! Round earth is just a theory!" on science books now?

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:39:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunplay:
jesus, people are stupid.


amen!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:05:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dolanp:
Great, so will the nutjobs start putting "Rotation around the sun is just a theory! Round earth is just a theory!" on science books now?




Only seems fair.

Technically, they seem to be undermining the very concept of gravity - so maybe the concept of gravity should be compeltely abandoned. After all, science cannot REALLY explain it particularly well. If I'm up to speed, the particles (or whatever) by which the effect of gravity operates, have not yet been definitively identified or measured - so perhaps it really just is magic or divine will.

Ironically, I remember a satirical piece a while ago, lampooing the "intelligent design" stuff, claiming that gravity was bunk and in reality should correctly be called "intelligent falling". I can't decide if it's funny or sad to see real life imitate comedy so accurately.


Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:12:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 12:13:07 PM EDT by Spade]
Man, stuff like this makes me want to build my cabin in the woods and pretend people like this aren't really there.

"I must be insane, because nobody can be this dumb!"

I like this quote



Or, as Galileo famously quoted 16th century Cardinal Caesar Baronius, "The Bible was written to show us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go."
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:14:32 PM EDT
Amazing thing can happen when you get a bunch of people like this together.

I blame the internet so in turn it must be Gore's fault.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:17:03 PM EDT
Intelligence falls along a statistical bell curve. Looks like someone slipped, rolled down the curve and fell off the left side of it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:17:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
I blame the internet so in turn it must be Gore's fault.




The one horrific thing the interweb did was make hordes of weird idiots discover that they weren't alone. This gave them confidence and power.

It's also why we must more often deal with people who believe the earth is flat, communists, and furries.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:17:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hectic:

Originally Posted By Gunplay:
jesus, people are stupid.


amen!



I'll second that!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:20:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 12:20:37 PM EDT by macman37]
Ugh...

...Here we go again. Now there are more idiots that anti-religious types can throw at us sensible Believers with a sneer and a smirk and say "What do you know? You don't believe the Earth is round..."

Thanks, anti-science idiots. A whole bunch.



ps why aren't those guys wearing pants...? Is this a Python skit...?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:20:32 PM EDT
Well, technically, he could be right, since there's no such thing as absolute position. All position is relative, so it could just as well be that the Earth doesn't spin, and the rest of the universe revolves around the Earth every 24 hours.

It's not very bloody likely though.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:33:18 PM EDT
Guys, this man coaches my sons basketball team!! NO JOKE!!!!

I am as Catholic as they come and I really believe in my religion. This however I do not get.


This guy is as normal and reasonable a man as you will ever meet...until you delve into this. It is a shame that subjects like this, that have no real impact on salvation, become the points that divide us.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:39:11 PM EDT
Some people need to be eliminated from the gene pool! You can't argue with stupid people. We need to take these people up to 3000 feet and kick them out of a plane they will find out in 20 seconds that gravity is real and the ground is hard.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:45:18 PM EDT
I always figured that the guys were just attention whores. Can anybody be THAT stupid?

Ed
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:45:26 PM EDT
Don't extrapolate that all Christians think that way. If an alien landed in backwoods Kentucky and saw a trailor parked out in the woods, painted purple, with a picture of Elvis giving the thumbs up sign on the side, should he write the entire US off as a being a bunch of dimwits?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:47:06 PM EDT
His theories don't seem too far off from what we see "mainstream" religious advocates push for...

The earth is 5000 years old, carbon dating is all lies and so are dinosaur bones. God made you the way you are right now, and evolution is crock.

sound familiar?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:48:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Don't extrapolate that all Christians think that way. If an alien landed in backwoods Kentucky and saw a trailor parked out in the woods, painted purple, with a picture of Elvis giving the thumbs up sign on the side, should he write the entire US off as a being a bunch of dimwits?



But what if they happen to be huge Elvis fans?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:48:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:49:03 PM EDT
Nothing brings out a crowd, and the press, better then dead bodies and half naked nut jobs.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:38:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
I blame the internet so in turn it must be Gore's fault.




The one horrific thing the interweb did was make hordes of weird idiots discover that they weren't alone. This gave them confidence and power.

It's also why we must more often deal with people who believe the earth is flat, communists, and furries.




Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:45:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

ps why aren't those guys wearing pants...? Is this a Python skit...?






Seriously - "Monty Python skit" was my very first thought as well.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:54:06 PM EDT

His theories don't seem too far off from what we see "mainstream" religious advocates push for...

Correct. I'm running into more and more of them as more people from Ohio move into the area. Most of them are just normal people, but quite a few of them are simply wacky.z
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:15:33 PM EDT
"If you see the Earth as just a humdrum planet among stars circling in a vast universe, then we're not significant, we're just part of a crowd," Sungenis said. "But if you believe everything revolves around Earth, it gives another picture - of purpose, a meaning of life."

And that right there is where people like this come from.

Oh and why are the guys in the pic not wearing pants?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:29:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By dolanp:
Great, so will the nutjobs start putting "Rotation around the sun is just a theory! Round earth is just a theory!" on science books now?




Only seems fair.

Technically, they seem to be undermining the very concept of gravity - so maybe the concept of gravity should be compeltely abandoned. After all, science cannot REALLY explain it particularly well. If I'm up to speed, the particles (or whatever) by which the effect of gravity operates, have not yet been definitively identified or measured - so perhaps it really just is magic or divine will.

Ironically, I remember a satirical piece a while ago, lampooing the "intelligent design" stuff, claiming that gravity was bunk and in reality should correctly be called "intelligent falling". I can't decide if it's funny or sad to see real life imitate comedy so accurately.





Here ya go:

www.theonion.com/content/node/39512

I wonder, how long before people here on ARFCOM start arguing for this?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:37:33 PM EDT
Where did this article come from, The Onion?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:40:04 PM EDT
You know, I prefer to think of myself as just a man that can't see the "real" design in the matrix, if you will.

As I remember, ALL of science is based on THEORY. Theory only becomes fact if we believe it to be.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:45:47 PM EDT
Every belief system has many branches to it. These seem to be the nuts that fell off.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:16:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 4:17:15 PM EDT by Greenhorn]

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
His theories don't seem too far off from what we see "mainstream" religious advocates push for...

The earth is 5000 years old, carbon dating is all lies and so are dinosaur bones. God made you the way you are right now, and evolution is crock.

sound familiar?



Oh, come on. We can directly observe the Earth revolving around the Sun, and see that the Earth is spherical, etc. We cannot see evolution, or proof that the Earth is billions of years old. And C-14 dating sucks for really old things. Its half-life is too short, and besides, we can't say with certainty how much C-14 a certain thing had in it when it died. We just assume it's the same as today, and we assume that none got added or subtracted somehow.

The flat-earthers are in a league by themselves. Don't compare us to them in any way.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:41:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenhorn:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
His theories don't seem too far off from what we see "mainstream" religious advocates push for...

The earth is 5000 years old, carbon dating is all lies and so are dinosaur bones. God made you the way you are right now, and evolution is crock.

sound familiar?



Oh, come on. We can directly observe the Earth revolving around the Sun, and see that the Earth is spherical, etc. We cannot see evolution, or proof that the Earth is billions of years old. And C-14 dating sucks for really old things. Its half-life is too short, and besides, we can't say with certainty how much C-14 a certain thing had in it when it died. We just assume it's the same as today, and we assume that none got added or subtracted somehow.

The flat-earthers are in a league by themselves. Don't compare us to them in any way.



Which is why C14 is never just accepted in isolation. It's used in conjunction with other dating methods. But yes it's limited to a narrower range of dates.

Anyway, these idiots are on a level of stupid all to their own. Flat out amusing really.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:37:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenhorn:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
His theories don't seem too far off from what we see "mainstream" religious advocates push for...

The earth is 5000 years old, carbon dating is all lies and so are dinosaur bones. God made you the way you are right now, and evolution is crock.

sound familiar?



Oh, come on. We can directly observe the Earth revolving around the Sun, and see that the Earth is spherical, etc. We cannot see evolution, or proof that the Earth is billions of years old. And C-14 dating sucks for really old things. Its half-life is too short, and besides, we can't say with certainty how much C-14 a certain thing had in it when it died. We just assume it's the same as today, and we assume that none got added or subtracted somehow.

The flat-earthers are in a league by themselves. Don't compare us to them in any way.



Modern carbon-dating is calibrated to account for changes in the natural C14/C12 ratio. The method I have seen quoted uses long-lived trees, which lay down annual growth rings. Counting rings establishes an exact calendar date for that ring, and carbon-dating them allows the calculation of the actual carbon ratios for that year.
Top Top