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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/23/2001 7:25:29 PM EDT
Which has the best overall quality? Accuracy? Reliability? I know both are great guns but I'm very interested in user opinions. TIA.
Link Posted: 2/23/2001 7:37:49 PM EDT
Any M1911 can be made into a terrific firearm. I own Colt, Springfield, Detonics and Kimber 1911's. By far the best out-of-the-box 1911 you can buy is Kimber! And their prices are right too. The Kimber I own is a Classic and it will digest any type of ammo I feed it, without modifications. I like it so much that I just ordered a CDP Ultra.
Link Posted: 2/23/2001 8:33:44 PM EDT
Only Springfields I have owned have been the Milspecs. They were all reliable and reasonably accurate. Have owned five Kimbers, over 13,000 rounds through them altogether, no malfunctions at all and they have consistently been the most accurate handguns I have ever fired.
Link Posted: 2/23/2001 9:06:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2001 9:07:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2001 9:09:29 PM EDT
I purchased one of the first Kimber 1911s on the market more than 2 years ago, shot it, let six friends shoot it and now 7 of us own 8 Kimbers. Get the picture??????? I use to love 9mm, but I haven't shot mine much since I've gotten my Kimber. Springfields are nice, but they've simply attempted to copy the Kimber manufacturing process. Why buy a copy, when you can have the real thing? I'm selling my Compact, so that I can get a full grown Kimber next!
Link Posted: 2/23/2001 9:59:26 PM EDT
I own two Kimbers, a Classic, and an Ultra Carry. Both are extremely nice pistols. Only complaint I have is the finish on my "supposed" stainless Ultra carry. The finish began flaking off and is now nearly gone from the safety. My friend purchased the same type of Ultra Carry and had the same problem. But, as the old saying goes, "Form follows function." And for function, nothing beats the Kimber. Both of mine are extremely accurate, and I have had almost no problems with jams. I have fired a friend's Springfield V-10, and I was not overly impressed with it. It had a tendency to eject spent cartridges back into my face. I'll stick with the Kimber.
Link Posted: 2/23/2001 10:17:30 PM EDT
I was going to buy a Kimber S.S. Gold Match for $1140. I shot one and fell in love. Then I tried a Spingfield Armory V-12. It had all the features of the Kimber, such as match grade sights, S.S. construction, beavertail, target trigger, etc. But, it also had a compensated barrel. Fit and finish were beautiful, and so was the price. Under $700!! I bought the V-12. It eats anything I put through it, from 230 gr. factory hardball, to my 185 gr. swc target handloads. I've got over 2500 rounds through it with on malfunctions whatsoever. It shoots rings around my Series 70 Gold Cup, and it didn't need a ramp job to feed target loads.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 2:38:27 AM EDT
From what I've seen the Springfields give you the same reliabilty and accuracy as the Kimbers but cost a lot less. I paid $600 for a Springfield and it looks and shoots great! It comes with match everything. I want to get another one for keeps and have one for everyday carry. [:)]
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 6:00:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FNFalGuy: Springfields are nice, but they've simply attempted to copy the Kimber manufacturing process. Why buy a copy, when you can have the real thing?
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Kimber doesn`t manufacture all of it`s components, I know others will disagree, thats ok. So springfield is trying to play on Kmbers 1911`s. Do you have an idea how long Kimber has been making 1911`s? How about Springfield? ipschoserdude, The Kimber is a fine piece but so are the Springfields, I`ve shot both side by each and as far as accuracy, no difference. As far as reliability, Springy didnt have a problem, Kimber jammed a couple times, it mighta been the mag though. Price goes to the SA. I got the SA1911A1 loaded last year and have been a very happy camper. What class do you shoot now? Is this for limited 10? What are you using in your matches? I`m shooting production this year, using a Glock 34. classified 'c'.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 6:47:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: Kimber doesn`t manufacture all of it`s components, I know others will disagree, thats ok.
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Yes, it's ok that you're wrong.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 7:13:46 AM EDT
Yes RIK it is OK, but thanks for your ok, that means much to me. Judging from the amount of people that have disagreed with you on this and other boards that comes as a real compliment.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 7:28:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2001 7:37:35 AM EDT by SOLARPIMP]
I've owned both...I've only had to return one back to the manufacturer for repairs and that was with very minimal rounds thru it...So now I only own the one I trust... I own the Kimber... As for non-Kimber made parts...I am not really sure...doesn't matter W/ 1" accuracy at 25 yards out of an Ultra Carry that has a short barrel!!! I do know the Springfields are mostly built in Argentina and then assembled by Springfield...Spring fields are mostly good guns...and Springfield does an excellent job of taking care of their warranty work...which is a compliment as there is quite a lot of warranty work for them to take care of!!!
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 7:58:48 AM EDT
i carry a kimber pro carry on duty every day.The only addition i've made to it is a front night sight and wilson mags.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 8:11:05 AM EDT
BTW, I have been looking for the data point that brought this to my attention. It was a press release after the 2001 SHOT show concerning the origins of their frames, they stated that they are currently using S&W frames because of their high quality. I have just looked at their website and cannot verify either way, lots of stuff about quality control and in house stuff, but nowhere does it state they make they`re own frames. They mention that they do all the machine work and verify through cnc that all is well. But I dont see where it says they forge their own frames. I have called them in the past regarding this and was given no clear answer. Very similar to whats on the website. I just wrote them an email asking the same question and will post reply if and when I get it. Yes SA gets their parts from Argentina and states this on their site, I can understand Kimber trying to distance themselves from S&W. But I dont like double speak. I would buy Kimber regardless of the answer. I would buy SA too. Both are fine pistols.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 8:32:51 AM EDT
I just ordered a new stainless longslide ,not the 45 super - just the plain 6 inch barrel loaded model. Price was 689 w tax and transfer. I hope I get a good one as I hear problems with some of the new springfields delivered recently.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 8:54:54 AM EDT
I bought a Springfield V-16 about 9 mos ago. It was horribly inaccurate. I talked to a very well known 1911 smith who told me that about one in three Springfields are like that. I mean I couldn't get better than 5" groups at 25 yards. He also pointed out that Springfields have a two piece barrel that is soldered together! I have since sold it and bought a Kimber which he recommended as a good out of the box gun.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 9:02:40 AM EDT
If these are your only two choices go with the Kimber. They are made incredibly well and shoot even better. Springfield is a good 1911, but Kimber is a better gun and a better buy for the money. I hate the idea of a 2 piece barrel.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 9:14:31 AM EDT
I have a Kimber Stainless Compact. It shoots very well with no malfunctions so far. I would buy another without a doubt. I have no experiance with SA however.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 9:15:24 AM EDT
I know that I will be flamed for this but if I have to be torn between two manufacturers, it will be Kimber and Para-Ord. Have you guys seen the new single stack P 7-45? It will give a lot of guns a run for their money. IMHO, of course!!!
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 10:29:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wirebrush: I talked to a very well known 1911 smith who told me that about one in three Springfields are like that. I mean I couldn't get better than 5" groups at 25 yards
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I recieved my SA1911A1 loaded for a prize at a uspsa end of year event. This was last year. A couple weeks ago, there were 8 of the 14 guns given away at the local match, they were all used in the match and all ran perfect, one guy had a squib but he blamed it on his reloads. The clubs ffl/gunsmith says he hasnt had many problems with accuracy from SA, in fact he mentioned the opposite. Mine runs well and can get under 2" if I do my part. Just my opinion, of course I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 10:52:11 AM EDT
http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001571.html Here`s some info on Kimber buying their frames from S&W
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 11:16:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: Yes RIK it is OK, but thanks for your ok, that means much to me. Judging from the amount of people that have disagreed with you on this and other boards that comes as a real compliment.
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Judging by their CHARACTER, however, it isn't.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 11:18:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: BTW, I have been looking for the data point that brought this to my attention. It was a press release after the 2001 SHOT show concerning the origins of their frames, they stated that they are currently using S&W frames because of their high quality.
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Ah, I think I see the nature of your misconception now. Kimber does not buy frames from Smith and Wesson, but they do buy RAW FORGINGS from Smith among other vendors. It's quite a step from a raw forging to a frame.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 1:03:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314:
Originally Posted By Wirebrush: I talked to a very well known 1911 smith who told me that about one in three Springfields are like that. I mean I couldn't get better than 5" groups at 25 yards
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I recieved my SA1911A1 loaded for a prize at a uspsa end of year event. This was last year. A couple weeks ago, there were 8 of the 14 guns given away at the local match, they were all used in the match and all ran perfect, one guy had a squib but he blamed it on his reloads. The clubs ffl/gunsmith says he hasnt had many problems with accuracy from SA, in fact he mentioned the opposite. Mine runs well and can get under 2" if I do my part. Just my opinion, of course I could be wrong.
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Rich: I thought it might be me or the ammo, so I tried a few different loads from my IPSC match ammo to some factory ammo made exclusively for the v-16, then I picked up my wifes Sig 220 and shot a few 1-2" groups with it. The gunsmith I talked to was Terry Tussy who builds some 1911s that will shot 3/4" or better. It could be that one of the three that he sees is bad. He said that he didn't know why the bad one wouldn't shoot and there wasn't much he could do for them. Anyway that V-16 put a very bad taste in my mouth, and after reading an article about converting a Kimber to .45 super I would chose a Kimber over Springfield nearly every time. My father has an early Springfield custom shop gun that is very accurate and has one piece barrel. I believe it was built under the supervisioon of Les Baer.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 1:49:45 PM EDT
Rik: your right they are forgings, not a finished frame, but I dont believe this would be a issue at all if it wasnt for the fact S&W is getting money from Kimber. Many folks are taking this boycott very serious, thus the nitpicking. As for my post alludeing to the fact that Kimber doesn`t manufacture all of it`s components, I wasn`t that far off. Wire: I dont doubt you at all, and am sorry to hear of your misfortune with the SA products. I was wondering how many shooters in your local matches use Kimber as apposed to SA. In my club there are no Kimbers playing in the limited 10 game. Most are SA. Maybe it`s because SA sponsers our events and gives us free guns.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 1:58:33 PM EDT
Kimber... .Nuff Said... Well actually... The Kimber will maintain it's resale better too... Nuff Said again... [pistol]
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 2:27:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: Rik: your right they are forgings, not a finished frame, but I dont believe this would be a issue at all if it wasnt for the fact S&W is getting money from Kimber. Many folks are taking this boycott very serious, thus the nitpicking. As for my post alludeing to the fact that Kimber doesn`t manufacture all of it`s components, I wasn`t that far off.
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Well, you were still pretty far off. Going by the definitions you seem to have of "manufacture all its components" they wouldn't actually meet that definition unless they mined the ore themselves. As for the Smith boycott, I myself have not bought a new Smith since their agreement, but *I* am not in the gun making business trying to make money. If Kimber feels that they can get the best forgings for the best buy from Smith, that's what they have to do: they are responsible to their buyers to put the best product out there that they can.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 4:44:24 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info. Please keep it coming. Rich314 I,m shooting B limited with an STI Edge 40. Hoping for my A card this year. The single stack will be used for tactical 3 gun matches where full blown limited guns aren't allowed. This will keep me from having to switch back and forth between a Glock and the STI.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 5:58:06 PM EDT
Yep, I`ll be trying my 1st 3-gun next month, I`ll be using a Glock34. B class, heh?? Quickdraw. I was using a S/V infinity last year, in 40 also, looking towards to doing better in production, I think I like it better than limited.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 6:02:27 PM EDT
Get the Kimber. Springfields are too boxy and has too many sharp edges.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 6:11:16 PM EDT
Another vote for Kimber, I have a stainless target, it rocks. Springfields aren't bad, but I'd rather have the Kimber.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 6:17:49 PM EDT
I like both pistols but only own the Kimber stainless coustom classic. My only complaint with the Springfield is they dont come with night sites unless you get the FBI model. That was my reason to buy the Kimber i couldnt see buying a new gun and throwing the sights away. It is reliable and very accurate. I carry it every day for CCW.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 6:19:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By Rich314: Well, you were still pretty far off. Going by the definitions you seem to have of "manufacture all its components" they wouldn't actually meet that definition unless they mined the ore themselves.
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[sleep]
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 6:49:17 PM EDT
Rich314, hope you do well at the 3 gun match. 3 gun is the ultimate! We just shot a special classifier last weekend. I'm going to get a production classification too but my plans are to go for limited class in the forseeable future.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 7:38:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314:
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[sleep]
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I guess you get bored when you have no answer? Oh well, if you can't deal with the facts, that's your problem.
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 12:15:22 PM EDT
Another satisfied Kimber owner in Miami, Florida. Bought a Kimber Polymer Stainless, and had an ambi-safety and adjustable night sights put on it. Also got 2 hi-cap mags from Kimber. Test fired against my old S&W Stainless 4506. The Kimber is a champ. Best .45 I have ever fired. My 4506 is a great gun and I never had a jam. They'll pry this Kimber out of my dead cold hand when I die an old man. The smile on my face will show it!
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 12:31:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By Rich314:
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[sleep]
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I guess you get bored when you have no answer? Oh well, if you can't deal with the facts, that's your problem.
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Play nice children...
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 12:44:33 PM EDT
Get a Wilson Combat.
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 1:10:46 PM EDT
Man this is an old thread that got revived! As an update I bought a Kimber Custom Classic. What a blaster! It's VERY accurate, reliable (about 350 rds so far with no problems), and has a good trigger. I'm very satisfied. Now for a set of night sights and wood grip panels... Thanks for all the input from everyone.
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 1:33:37 PM EDT
Excellent choice. Hope you enjoy your new Kimber for a long time to come.
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 2:38:33 PM EDT
One question. Can you shoot production class with high caps? I am leaning toward the Para Ord P14-45 or possibly the P16 in 40 Caliber.
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 5:29:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cope: One question. Can you shoot production class with high caps? I am leaning toward the Para Ord P14-45 or possibly the P16 in 40 Caliber.
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No 1911 type pistol is Production class legal. You can, however, shoot Limited 10 with your Para as long as the mags are loaded to 10 rds max. Of course you have a good high cap Limited Class gun as is!
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 5:32:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Excellent choice. Hope you enjoy your new Kimber for a long time to come.
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Thanks RikWriter. I'll do my best to provide it a good home and plenty of exercise!
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 7:20:37 PM EDT
Ariel- get a Wilson Combat???? Unless things have changed, Bill Wilson gets his slides and frames from Kimber, throws in some 'Wilson' parts (that he gets from other vendors) and hangs his name and a $2000+ price tag on it. You may get a little more hand finishing work with a Wilson, but not enough to justify an additional $1300!!!! For what a Wilson costs you could almost buy a Kimber and a Les Baer.
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 7:26:59 PM EDT
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