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Posted: 1/8/2005 10:32:01 AM EDT
Excerpted:


The defenseless LIBERTY radioed for help. Two aircraft carriers in the Med responded by launching fighter aircraft. Unbelievably, they were recalled by the White House. RADM Geis, then commanding the carriers in the Sixth Fleet, called Washington personally to confirm the order. SecDef McNamara came on the line, then President Johnson. Johnson indicated to Geis that the aircraft were to be returned, that he would not have his allies embarrassed, and that he didn't care who was killed or what was done to the ship. Geis, like any good sailor, recalled the aircraft.

(If you have RealAudio, and click on the picture of CDR Dave Lewis at the right, you will HEAR Dave tell about his conversation with Admiral Geis.)

With no help forthcoming, the LIBERTY fell an easy victim to Israel's motor torpedo boat attack. FIVE torpedoes were lobbed at the Liberty, one hit amidships and instantly killed 25 sailors. A total of 34 died in the attack, 172 were injured.

The torpedo boats came within 50 feet of the ship, couldn't see the American flag on the mast, couldn't see the words "USS LIBERTY" on the stern, couldn't see "GTR-5" in 6 1/2 foot letters on the bow. The boats shot at American sailors on the deck of the Liberty as the sailors tried to help one another. As life rafts were put in the water by Liberty sailors in preparation for abandoning the ship, the boats shot them up. One boat pulled one out of the water and took it on board. Didn't see the words "U. S. NAVY" stenciled on it. The boats left the scene, apparently when they got erroneous word that the carriers had sent fighters to help the Liberty.



More at: The Attack on the USS Liberty
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:33:57 AM EDT
A truly shameful incident.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:34:27 AM EDT
Woo-hoo !!



It's been a while - glad ETH is back  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:35:05 AM EDT
Give him a break, boys.

He's cut from stem to stern.

Let him heal up a little before riling him up.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:35:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 10:35:59 AM EDT by sgtar15]
And you wonder why I say you hate Jews?


You and Gman thinly veil it but it is there....


SGatr15
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:36:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Unbelievably, they were recalled by the White House. RADM Geis, then commanding the carriers in the Sixth Fleet, called Washington personally to confirm the order. SecDef McNamara came on the line, then President Johnson. Johnson indicated to Geis that the aircraft were to be returned, that he would not have his allies embarrassed, and that he didn't care who was killed or what was done to the ship. Geis, like any good sailor, recalled the aircraft.



The weirdest explaination of why this happened I read on a JFK conspiracy site.  It claimed Johnson was a crypto-Jew.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:36:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 10:39:00 AM EDT by Wobblin-Goblin]

Give him a break, boys.

He's cut from stem to stern.

Let him heal up a little before riling him up.


What, did he undergo a lobotomy and the docs didn't know which head to open up, so they made one big incision?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:38:28 AM EDT
Sad indeed.
The attackers should have been lit up.[IMO]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:47:33 AM EDT

Geis, like any good sailor, recalled the aircraft.


he should have disobeyed on the grounds the order was illegal
I mean WTF? he allowed an unarmed US Navy ship to get blown to shit
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:47:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Give him a break, boys.

He's cut from stem to stern.

Let him heal up a little before riling him up.


What, did he undergo a lobotomy and the docs didn't know which head to open up, so they made one big incision?





Sounds like they gut him like a carp ???
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:05:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:06:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
And you wonder why I say you hate Jews?



You are the one who is anti-Israeli.  You shield them from all criticism, absolve them from all their misdeads and never allow them to face reality and mature.  Just like the Democratic party and black Americans.

And before you start calling me anti-Semitic, talk to my Jewish step-father, smart ass.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:08:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosstradamus:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
And you wonder why I say you hate Jews?



You are the one who is anti-Israeli.  You shield them from all criticism, absolve them from all their misdeads and never allow them to face reality and mature.  Just like the Democratic party and black Americans.

And before you start calling me anti-Semitic, talk to my Jewish step-father, smart ass.




Does he post here?


Sgatr15
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:17:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cyanide:
A truly shameful incident.



Agree with that 100%.  But of course I'm sure I'm what's considered a "Jew-hater" by some around here.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:25:21 AM EDT
I agree 100% as well.  I'm not anti Isreal, I'm just pro American first.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:27:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zoomer:
Sad indeed.
The attackers should have been lit up.[IMO]



YEP!!!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:34:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Excerpted:

....Johnson indicated to Geis that the aircraft were to be returned, that he would not have his allies embarrassed, and that he didn't care who was killed or what was done to the ship.


The President sometime has to make some tough and hard decisions, and this was one of them. Regardless of the reasons.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:39:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swordslinger:

Originally Posted By Zoomer:
Sad indeed.
The attackers should have been lit up.[IMO]



YEP!!!!



+ 10K


Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:52:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Excerpted:

....Johnson indicated to Geis that the aircraft were to be returned, that he would not have his allies embarrassed, and that he didn't care who was killed or what was done to the ship.


The President sometime has to make some tough and hard decisions, and this was one of them. Regardless of the reasons.



Yeah

Like in the old days wars were started over just a few Americans being slaughtered.
Today we are more worried on how we will look to our allies ???

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:01:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 12:03:15 PM EDT by TheKill]
Go here to see a heavily photoshopped pic.  Damage and rust are photochopped, there is a motorboat shadow on the side of the ship but the boat that created the shadow is gone, and the helo is a frigging Blackhawk.  This happened in 1967....sorry, no Hawks in service.

www.ussliberty.org/g/lg/lgwalsh06.jpg

Stuff like that doesn't help the cause.  I agree the whole thing stinks, but why make up stuff to support it?


Edited to add: the shadow is a gangway.  It also appears they colorized a black and white photo.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:15:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 12:15:57 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:17:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
How is ANY of this 'new' revelations????

Folks, you should either be up to your shiite on the facts of this tragic case or simply admit that what others have known FOR YEARS is still (apparently) beyond your ken.

Know what I mean?

Eric The(MyPositionIsWellKnown)Hun



Proving that even a sick pit bull can still growl.  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:19:00 PM EDT
Wow.
good thing this was only 40 years ago.
I heard (I can't confirm this, mind you) but the story goes that 60 years ago OUR ALLIES, the japanese, bombed a navy boat.  Now, of course, the government hushed it up.  The rumor is that we even knew that the japs might do something like this, and we let it happen (its them damn jap-jews running the world ya know).
And now those sneaky fuckers act like our allies.  We defend them from China, we give em a consitution and keep soldiers there for 60 years and THEY KILLED OUR SAILERS.

You probably haven't heard of the boat, them jap-jews keep it quiet.
A moment of silence for the (little-known) USS Arizona.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:20:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:21:24 PM EDT
why would the israelis attack our ship?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:26:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:29:47 PM EDT
We knew the Iraqis were sneaky little bastards.
The point of the USS Liberty being resurrected is not to question why a Navy Ship was in a war-zone when the commander of 6th Fleet told the Israelis all American ships had been evacuated to Cyprus.
Rather, it is to highlight the little known fact that them jews are taking over the world.
Yesterday the liberty, tomorrow, THE WORLD!!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:30:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheKill:
Go here to see a heavily photoshopped pic.  Damage and rust are photochopped, there is a motorboat shadow on the side of the ship but the boat that created the shadow is gone, and the helo is a frigging Blackhawk.  This happened in 1967....sorry, no Hawks in service.

www.ussliberty.org/g/lg/lgwalsh06.jpg

Stuff like that doesn't help the cause.  I agree the whole thing stinks, but why make up stuff to support it?


Edited to add: the shadow is a gangway.  It also appears they colorized a black and white photo.



That is not a Blackhawk, the Navy does not use them, they use SH-60 Seahawks.  Unfortunately
this isn't one either; it is an SH-2 Seasprite which was in use at the time.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:30:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:35:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By mike45acp:
why would the israelis attack our ship?


Do not attempt to hold your breath while awaiting an answer to your question, my friend, for you will likely go into asphyxiation before anyone can find a plausible explanation.

It's been, lo, these many years, and none have been forthcoming!

Eric The(Patient)Hun


Occam's Razor.
The jews attacked the ship because the jews want to rule the world and they can only do that by murdering the goyim.
Read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Wobblin will lend you a copy.
Open your eyes.
Muslims aren't the enemy, its the JEEEEEWWWWWSSSSSSSS
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:42:29 PM EDT
Woohoo!  A Jew Bashing Thread!
IBTL.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:44:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIPSNIPE1:

Originally Posted By TheKill:
Go here to see a heavily photoshopped pic.  Damage and rust are photochopped, there is a motorboat shadow on the side of the ship but the boat that created the shadow is gone, and the helo is a frigging Blackhawk.  This happened in 1967....sorry, no Hawks in service.

www.ussliberty.org/g/lg/lgwalsh06.jpg

Stuff like that doesn't help the cause.  I agree the whole thing stinks, but why make up stuff to support it?


Edited to add: the shadow is a gangway.  It also appears they colorized a black and white photo.



That is not a Blackhawk, the Navy does not use them, they use SH-60 Seahawks.  Unfortunately
this isn't one either; it is an SH-2 Seasprite which was in use at the time.





I did know that the naval version of the same aircraft had a different designation, but I did not know what it was.

That Seasprite looks a lot like a 'hawk though.

Learned me something new today!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:45:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheKill:
......Learned me something new today!



You will be the exception on this thread.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:47:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 12:48:56 PM EDT by Lancelot]

Originally Posted By TheKill:
Go here to see a heavily photoshopped pic.  Damage and rust are photochopped, there is a motorboat shadow on the side of the ship but the boat that created the shadow is gone, and the helo is a frigging Blackhawk.  This happened in 1967....sorry, no Hawks in service.

www.ussliberty.org/g/lg/lgwalsh06.jpg

Stuff like that doesn't help the cause.  I agree the whole thing stinks, but why make up stuff to support it?


Edited to add: the shadow is a gangway.  It also appears they colorized a black and white photo.




Nope not a Blackhawk. Its a Kaman Sea Sprite. Correct for date.


OOPS. sorry for the dupe

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:15:34 PM EDT
A while ago I noticed that the 88s never post about the Cole and the Stark...

Wonder why?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:27:22 PM EDT
IIRC, the Stark was hit by an anti-ship missile, correct?



Who fired it?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:29:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:30:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Wow.
good thing this was only 40 years ago.
I heard (I can't confirm this, mind you) but the story goes that 60 years ago OUR ALLIES, the japanese, bombed a navy boat.  Now, of course, the government hushed it up.  The rumor is that we even knew that the japs might do something like this, and we let it happen (its them damn jap-jews running the world ya know).
And now those sneaky fuckers act like our allies.  We defend them from China, we give em a consitution and keep soldiers there for 60 years and THEY KILLED OUR SAILERS.

You probably haven't heard of the boat, them jap-jews keep it quiet.
A moment of silence for the (little-known) USS Arizona.



On December 12 1937 the Japanese sank a US Navy Warship on the Yangtze River… the USS Panay… that attack was also 'ignored' for good political reasons.

""History of United States Naval Operations in World War II"
Volume 3: "The Rising Sun in the Pacific" (pages 16-18)
by Samuel Eliot Morison


5. The Sinking of  PANAY, 12 December 1937
U.S.S. Panay  was one of five small, shoal-draft river gunboats that had been built about ten years earlier, primarily for patrolling the Yangtze in order to protect American commerce and American nationals during the Chinese civil war.[12] They were used to being fired upon (and seldom hit) by irresponsible guerrilla bands of Chinese,[13] but what happened to Panay  was deliberately planned by responsible Japanese officers.

On 21 November 1937, when Japanese forces were approaching Nanking, Chiang Kai-shek's foreign office notified the American Embassy that it must prepare to evacuate. The Ambassador and most of the personnel left next day in U.S.S. Luzon;  the rest stuck it out for another week, when they decided to depart in Panay.  Ambassador Grew so notified the Japanese government on 1 December. On the 11th the gunboat embarked the American officials together with a number of civilians, and started upriver, escorting three Standard Oil barges that also wished to escape. Two British gunboats and a few other British craft followed the same course. For two miles this little flotilla was fired upon repeatedly by a shore battery commanded by Colonel Hashimoto, one of the ringleaders in the assassinations and a prominent Kodo  man. His object was to provoke the United States into a declaration of war, which would eliminate civilian influence from the Japanese government and complete the "Showa Restoration." The shooting was so wild that Panay  and her convoy, making slow speed against the current, pulled out of range without suffering a hit. An advanced Army unit notified naval authorities that Chinese troops were fleeing the capital in ten ships.

At 1100 next morning (12 December 1937) Panay  and the three tankers anchored near Hoshien, upstream from Nanking. American flags were hoisted on their masts and painted on the awnings and topsides. The day was clear, sunny and still. Panay's  ate their Sunday dinner and secured. No guns were manned or even uncovered. Shortly after 1330, three Japanese Navy bombing planes flew overhead and released eighteen bombs, one of which disabled Panay's  forward 3-inch gun, wrecked the pilothouse, sick bay and fire room, wounded the captain (Lieutenant Commander J.J. Hughes) and several others. Immediately after, twelve more planes dive-bombed and nine fighters strafed, making several runs over a space of twenty minutes. She fought back with her .30-cal. machine guns. By 1406 all power and propulsion were lost, the main deck was awash and, as Captain Hughes saw that his ship was going down, he ordered her to be abandoned. Japanese planes strafed the boats on their way to shore, and even combed the reeds along the riverbank for survivors. Two of the three oil barges were also bombed and destroyed. The Panay  survivors, kindly treated by the Chinese, managed to get word through to Admiral Yarnell and were taken on board U.S.S. Oahu  and H.M.S. Ladybird  two days later. Two bluejackets and one civilian passenger died of their wounds; eleven officers and men were seriously wounded.[14]

Mr. Grew, who remembered the Maine,  at first expected his country to declare war. But the promptness and apparent sincerity with which the Japanese government and people apologized and expressed their readiness to make what reparation they could, turned away wrath. The Japanese official inquiry resulted in the face-saving explanation that the attack was all a mistake; ships emblazoned with American flags had been mistaken for Chinese at 600 yards' range; it was just to bad. A United States naval Court of Inquiry at Shanghai brought out unmistakable evidence that the sinking was deliberate. But the United States government was so anxious to avoid war that it accepted the "mistake" theory, together with an indemnity. When it did so, a sigh of relief passed over the length and breadth of America.[15] In a Gallup poll conducted during the second week of January 1937, 70 per cent of the American voters who were interviewed and had an opinion on the subject favored a policy of complete withdrawal from China -- Asiatic Fleet, Marines, missionaries, medical missions, and all.[16]

Apparently no American except Mr. Grew remembered the Maine."

www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/dafs/PR/pr5-sinking.html
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:36:45 PM EDT
For Christ's SAKE, who the fuck CARES about this now?
It was FORTY FUCKING YEARS AGO!  
The Israeli government is not the same, the Johnson administration is history (and one of the worst American presidencies in history).
What RELEVANCE does this have today?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:46:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
IIRC, the Stark was hit by an anti-ship missile, correct?

Who fired it?


Iraq!

Saddam Hussein personally gave the two man air-crew a cash prize for the hit!

Of course, at the time, we were playing Iraq off against Iran and said not a word!

Eric The(Historical)Hun




OK...thats what I thought.  My other guess was Iran......and I wouldn't have been suprised either way.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:58:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheKill:
Go here to see a heavily photoshopped pic.  Damage and rust are photochopped, there is a motorboat shadow on the side of the ship but the boat that created the shadow is gone, and the helo is a frigging Blackhawk.  This happened in 1967....sorry, no Hawks in service.

www.ussliberty.org/g/lg/lgwalsh06.jpg

Stuff like that doesn't help the cause.  I agree the whole thing stinks, but why make up stuff to support it?


Edited to add: the shadow is a gangway.  It also appears they colorized a black and white photo.



The helo looks like a Kaman SH-2 SeaSprite, which went into fleet service in 1962.


It's definately not an SH-60 Blackhawk or Seahawk (the naval version of the Blackhawk).


As for the rest of the photo, there's too much compression jitter (jaggies) for me to make a call about whether to pic has been chopped or not. I know someone who  works in one of those private thinktank companies that does analisys work for the Pentagon. His take on the incident is that the whole thing was a giant FUBAR by the Israelies. They were trying to run a war with an out of date C3 (Command, Control & Communication) system that was overloaded. According to him, basically the Israelis messed up and mis-identified Liberty until someone realised there had been a mistake, after they had started shotting at it. I don't know who's version of events is corrent, but when there is the choice between conspiricy and stupidity, odds are that it's far more likely to have been stupidity by the Israelis rather than conspiricy.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:09:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By mike45acp:
why would the israelis attack our ship?


Do not attempt to hold your breath while awaiting an answer to your question, my friend, for you will likely go into asphyxiation before anyone can find a plausible explanation.

It's been, lo, these many years, and none have been forthcoming!

Eric The(Patient)Hun


Occam's Razor.
The jews attacked the ship because the jews want to rule the world and they can only do that by murdering the goyim.
Read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Wobblin will lend you a copy.
Open your eyes.
Muslims aren't the enemy, its the JEEEEEWWWWWSSSSSSSS



Sylvan, when  is your next klan meeting? can I come. See, Im a Jew by birth - But they left me out of their sinister conspiracy to take over the world, so Im real bitter.  Can I join up with you guys to stop the evil zionists?

NOTE TO ALL: SWANKFORCE IS THE ENEMY, THE WORLD WILL BE ALL MINE SOON.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:52:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
And you wonder why I say you hate Jews?


You and Gman thinly veil it but it is there....


SGatr15



Truth ain't hate.

Deal with it.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:53:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
How is ANY of this 'new' revelations????




It ain't new.

Its the same old inconvenient truth you can't handle.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:57:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:57:55 PM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
For Christ's SAKE, who the fuck CARES about this now?
It was FORTY FUCKING YEARS AGO!  
?



[sarcasm]Yer right.

Anything more than 40 years ago is irrelevant.

Like our soldiers at D-Day.

The Constitution.

Tha Magna Carta[/sarcasm]

Thos who don't BOTH learn AND remember teh lessons of history are DOOMED to repeat them.



Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:59:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:02:29 PM EDT
Did ANYTHING happen to the person on the Israeli side who ordered the attack?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:10:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 3:12:03 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:13:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 3:13:38 PM EDT by garandman]
Hey Eric.

I know your position on the USS Liberty, so honestly, i didn't read you post.

I'm more concerned you are doing well, and that recovery is progressing well



Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:14:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:15:40 PM EDT
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