User Panel
Posted: 12/2/2007 8:07:40 AM EDT
If this is a repost, my apologies. I checked the top 6 pages and didn't see it.
Looks like 5.56/.223 is gonna shoot up faster. www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-m162dec02,1,6788385,full.story?coll=la-headlines-world
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Same catch-word BS used in any article pertaining to "assault rifles". |
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Finnicky rifle + Virtual conscripts = very bad
They should have went with a different rifle. |
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Agreed. |
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Calling them "virtual conscripts" is silly.
They are all-volunteer. Heck, they pay bribes to get in. And aside from the US, which nation's military has more combat experience and battle-hardened soldiers? Only Iraq. |
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"Spray and pray shooting style"
They do realize it's piss poor training and piss poor fire discipline that's responsible for spray and pray fire, rather than the type of weapon, don't they? I mean sheesh, I can fire an AK just as slow as an M-16 if I choose to. It won't be as accurate. But if you are a halfway decent shot you can still achieve combat level accuracy with an AK. |
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After a year in Iraq as an MP advising the Iraqi Police I can tell you that the AK and the PK series of machine guns are the best weapons for Iraqi Security Forces(ISF). Cleaning equipment is pracically non existant, and the standard practice is to clean all weapons, including glock 19 pistols, is to use diesel fuel. The most common lube? None at all or at most the same diesel fuel. The M16/M4 series requires a little more care in order to function correctly.
These weapons can take the abuse handed out by ISF. You can clean an AK with a shoelace and a rag and believe me usually that's all they had. I was surprised by how little care their weapons recieved and still functioned. The AK has no small, easy to lose parts. The AK is reasonably accurate for the ranges typically encountered. And most Iraqi's know how to operate an AK. All Iraqi's are not bad shots, I ran a range and the Iraqi's were hitting head shots at 25M. Although there was an IP (Iraqi Police) who took his stock off his rifle and another guy without a rear sight, he couldn't hit the ground. Not one IP was a decent shot with a pistol, however. |
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Proof? |
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Proof of what? |
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Are you F'n serious? |
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So you disagree they would have been better served by a Sig 551 or FN FNC or even the AK-74? |
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I wonder how soon it will be before insurgents suddenly are seen using 5.56 rifles...
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Links to articles that say they pay bribes to get in and that they're the 2nd most battle hardened military. |
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I hope they teach the Iraqi soldiers how to clean their weapons.
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I bet, over time, a professional military with long service officers and NCOs will fix these problems. Especially if they're leavened by a collection of foreign advisors, like most Arab armies are. Especially if those advisors have street cred, say from having fought with the Iraqis for a period of time. Just a hunch. Guys, look at it this way. The Iraqis are trying to emulate us. They see our success. They want the visible manifestations of that success. M-16s, our uniforms, etc. The key will be teaching them that tools are a small part of the solution. It would be nice for this thread if someone, say with first hand knowledge training Iraqis, could chime in and explain some of the cultural barriers from raising a decent Iraqi Army and how we're working to fix that. ETA: No lube isn't necessarily a bad idea in dusty or sandy conditions. I'd rather have to replace a worn-out rifle, than have one jam on me. |
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im at besmaya range right now, havent seen any M16's in iraqi hands but have heard about it. its supposedly being transitioned into their hands for identification purposes, making them easier to identify as friendlies.
i do agree though that ak's and PKM's are more suitable for them. PMCS isnt exactly a big part of the iraqi army's priorities right now, or ever for that matter. whats funny is that most iraqi military i have spoken with think our weapons are stupid. they say they require too much maintenance and training, and are unreliable. i guess our weapons and tactics would seem complicated when your SOP during contact is doing the death blossom with an ak that has the stock intentionally removed and is being fired from the hip. i had an iraqi policeman throw his glock up on top of my tank unsolicited one time out in sector. he had this big grin, like he wanted to show it off. i gave him an ass chewing both about keeping control of his weapon and throwing a pistol at me. i did see two lithuanian troops with an FN2000 and a G36, the IA seemed to have no problems eye fucking those though. |
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What kind of bubble do you live in? It has been routinely reported they pay bribes to get in you would have had to be blind and deaf to miss these reports over several years, find it if you want… and considering the Iraqi army has had the largest number of troops besides the US fighingt non-stop for several years who the hell else would be the second most battle hardened Army. |
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Does this mean we might see some price drops in x39 ammo?????
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The biometric and such info being amassed is also to be used for locating the original owner of the rifle if it turns up in insurgent hands. i.e. Achmed sells his weapon to an insurgent or black market and said insurgent is whacked, the serial number on the rifle is traced back to Achmed. He then gets zip-tied and sandbagged for a trip to interrogation.
Interesting about the colonel who collected money for the Cali fire victims. The MSM would never have played that up. Even though it was obviously a symbolic gesture, those IA's probably don't make much $$$ but apparently donated. Hmmmm......a warm fuzzy for the Iraqis? Tell me it ain't so! |
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Then you would have no problem providing a link to a credible news source for me. |
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Shit, let's skip the middle man and ask someone who is there. |
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If only someone who's been there could post their insight........ |
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Like Cincinnatus! Anyway, I think they should have stuck with the AK. They all already know how to use the AK. Why switch arms types in the middle of a war? If they want to be "more like us" then start slapping rails and sights on the AKs. The Poles, Romanians, and a bunch of others do that with their AK types just fine. |
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Not him, who would he ask Cincinnatus for instance? Let him go I can get the links when I want to but it is better to let the youngster follow his usual practice of digging a very deep hole before getting buried in it. |
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Articles....... Ohhhhh boy ! You might do well to learn who exactly it IS, that you're attempting to debate the subject with first. Methinks he MIGHT have a tad more experience on the subject than you... |
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But all very true about the AK47/AKM... Note this was not applied to the M16.... |
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I immagine the 'proof' is Cinci's combat experience in Iraq, working with them... He is, IIRC a Field Grade officer in the Marines, and has done several tours.... |
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Now hush, you're gonna go and deflate the whole thread just when it was about to get funnay |
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Makes them all the easier to fight if we have to go in 10 years from now, again. |
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Happened in 03' already. |
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probably trying to get his roommate's buddy off his bed again |
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They pay bribes. I know this because I was an advisor to the Iraqi Army. I have also been to every province in Iraq, and been on the ground with every BCT and every RCT. I know these things because they are facts that I have observed first hand. Believe it or not, some things can be discerned without going to the MSM for "proof". As far as "battle hardened" goes... ...have you heard about the WAR in Iraq? It's a big one. Pick up a newspaper. |
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Since Iran fields a version of the M16A1, this isn't suprising... Plus they did capture arms from dead US troops... |
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Ok I'll give ya props for that. |
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Makes them easier to fight ALONGSIDE right now... Ideally the IA should have Beretta 92s and M16s, or at least magazine-compatible weapons in 9mm and 5.56... That way if a US soldier or Iraqi soldier runs out of ammo, they can cross-load... You just have to teach the Iraqis to understand 'Toss me a mag'.... Doesn't work that well with AKs and Glocks/Makarovs... |
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Very bad move.....Here we go again with JAMMO MATIC 16's again... Think yhey will get cleaning kits?????Muchless use them |
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As a former Vietnam SF trooper told me.... "The most important phrase you can learn in any indig language is 'Please give me the radio.'" |
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Could you please post links telling me that the sky is blue and that the world is round. I demand proof! |
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+1 |
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So Iraq is joining NATO? |
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They are fight along side us NOW. |
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Nah... Even if they tried, the Eurosnobs would veto it... But getting them on NATO calibers will be useful for the same reasons... Our troops are fighting right along side them, as the train-up continues... And assuming we win, they will stay US allies for the near future... So we might as well set them up for success, in case we meet on the SAME side of the battlefield in the future (ala South Korea).... |
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Because by jove, cheap ammo is more important than a stable Iraq. Can't completely tell if that's sarcasm, so excuse me if I missed the mark. |
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Yep, those weekend bump-firing sessions are way more important than getting our Allies the tools they need to help us win the war... |
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you mean Israel? |
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How often does Israel really go to war? And I don't mean lobbing a few rockets here and there but high-intensity conflict? |
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Millions of years from now, when humans are all dead & only miniscule molecules of life exist, the molecules in the Middle East will still be bitter enemies. |
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Yep...at least the Iraqis can say for now that they didn't engineer the biggest defeat in the GWOT. I give you the 2006 Lebanon War |
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