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Posted: 7/22/2002 10:41:55 AM EST
[url]http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/3708898.htm[/url] The United Teachers of Dade wants Miami-Dade County schoolteachers and others who aren't members of the union to pay an ''administrative fee'' to help cover the cost of negotiating new contracts that would benefit all district staff. Under the proposal, the school district would deduct hundreds of dollars a year from the paychecks of about 12,000 teachers, media specialists, counselors, teachers aides and office employees who aren't union members -- and send it to UTD coffers. If approved by the School Board, the fee would be the first of its kind in Florida, some labor law experts say. Those experts add that it is unclear whether the fee is even allowed under the state's restrictive unionism laws. The UTD is currently negotiating new contracts for raises and benefits. The final agreement will apply to all of the district's teachers and support staff, regardless of whether they are UTD members. ''Those who don't pay dues get a free ride,'' said Pat Tornillo, president of the 16,000-member UTD. ``The fee provides a mechanism in which all members of a bargaining unit pay their fair share of the costs of bargaining a contract.'' Dues-paying members would not have to pay the negotiating fee because it is incorporated in their dues. `IT'S INSANE' Word of the proposed fee has not circulated widely among nonunion teachers. ''It's insane that the UTD wants to take my money for negotiations,'' said Victoria Schoenwiesner, 30, a fourth-year teacher at Nautilus Middle School and a former UTD member who dropped out after two years. She had not heard of the plan until she was contacted Friday. ''The reason I'm no longer part of the UTD is I paid $800 a year [in dues] and had no idea what they did with the money,'' she added. ``If teachers were happy with the UTD, it would have more members.'' Earlier this year, 16,543 school employees -- 59 percent of the approximately 28,000-person bargaining unit -- had union dues taken from their paychecks. Union officials said their membership is higher because some pay dues in cash. `FEW FOR MANY' Annual dues for a full-time teacher are $831.20 -- a fee the union says subsidizes the cost of negotiating for nonmembers. ''The few have provided for the many,'' UTD general counsel Leslie Meek said. ``It's time for all teachers to provide their fair share.'' Tornillo presented the fee plan to district officials in June during the first round of contract negotiations, which could last for several months. It was the last of the UTD's 38 negotiating points. ''We just got the proposal and haven't begun negotiating yet,'' said district spokesman Mayco Villafaa. ``It's premature for us to make a statement one way or another.''
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 10:44:12 AM EST
Needless to say, but I am starting my own umbrella union organization, where all unions will be required to pay me. Fees are not set yet. Knees will be broken for non-compliant union members.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 10:49:51 AM EST
``It's time for all teachers to provide their fair share.''
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Er, yeah....right.... Looks like they are out to get their dues, one way or another. I'd be willing to bet cash that the union wouldn't lower the regular members dues if they got this crap through to charge the rest of the teachers. Hielo has the right idea.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 10:50:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 10:53:54 AM EST
The union gets over $14 Million a year? What do they provide in return, aside from the claimed collective contract negotiating? Part of the reason they have to negotiate at all is that the unions cost so much. The members have to pay dues so they need a raise. Then, they get a raise so the union dues go up. I think unions were a good idea once upon a time but they are useless now except to work it so that an uneducated guy putting car seats together can get $30 an hour.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 11:00:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By ArmedAggie: The union gets over $14 Million a year? What do they provide in return, aside from the claimed collective contract negotiating? Part of the reason they have to negotiate at all is that the unions cost so much. The members have to pay dues so they need a raise. Then, they get a raise so the union dues go up. I think unions were a good idea once upon a time but they are useless now except to work it so that an uneducated guy putting car seats together can get $30 an hour.
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Thats how I see it too. CAPITALIST
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 11:04:48 AM EST
Unions are simply a way for uneducated laggards to assure themselves a wage triple what they could earn on their own. Nothing wrong there. There will always be people who think that other people property really ought to be passed out to others, after all, they deserve the good life also. That a business would knuckle under and allow an outside collective to dictate terms to it is the shameful part.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 11:20:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2002 11:22:12 AM EST by Philadelphia_GunMan]
Originally Posted By hielo: Unions are simply a way for uneducated laggards to assure themselves a wage triple what they could earn on their own.
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Fucking a man. I hate unions in general but I especially hate teacher's unions. [b]Teachers only work 3/4 of the year. They should only get 3/4 of a salary.[/b] Ontop of that teaching is a cake job. You get tons of days off that real jobs don't get. You get the whole summer off. Once you have a lesson plan set all you have to do is teach the same thing every year like a robot.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:01:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan:
Originally Posted By hielo: Unions are simply a way for uneducated laggards to assure themselves a wage triple what they could earn on their own.
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Fucking a man. I hate unions in general but I especially hate teacher's unions. [b]Teachers only work 3/4 of the year. They should only get 3/4 of a salary.[/b] Ontop of that teaching is a cake job. You get tons of days off that real jobs don't get. You get the whole summer off. Once you have a lesson plan set all you have to do is teach the same thing every year like a robot.
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They do get pay for 3/4 of the year.They have the option of being paid the same amount over the whole year.Cake job?Obviously you have never taught.Being a GOOD teacher is very demanding.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:32:59 PM EST
Teachers only work 3/4 of the year. They should only get 3/4 of a salary. Ontop of that teaching is a cake job. You get tons of days off that real jobs don't get. You get the whole summer off. Once you have a lesson plan set all you have to do is teach the same thing every year like a robot. ============================================ OK how far do you have your head buried up your.........? My wife teaches 1st grade. She leaves the house at approximately 6 am and returns at 630 pm, she also does more work at home. So, on average, she is putting in 14 hours a day. That does not include the continuing education one must have to maintain a teaching cert in IL. She works basically all year...Aug thru June in the classroom and June to Aug. in Grad classes. I taught special education for 9 years. Last five years were severe and profound behavior disorders. During that time I racked up a slipped disk in my neck from restraining, human bites, kicks/punches, and heaps of verbal abuse/threats. Part of the job and I accepted it. Till I realized that after 9 years I was only making 29,300 GROSS salary. Now that may seem like a nice salary, but when you live and work in an area that average salaries are 60K+...good luck buying a house much less raising kids. Teachers if they are good are not static and do not just teach "like a robot", rather they are dynamic. As a former teacher, I think the unions suck. Start running the schools like companies and retain employees based on performance. Get rid of the static teachers and pay the TRUE teachers salaries that reflect what they are worth and what they do.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:35:10 PM EST
as a union member i take offense at being called an uneducated laggard by any other member. i hope that the moderators will lock this thread, and i hope you all have a nice day!!
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:38:28 PM EST
Here is a little math lesson for my pal in PA. Teachers have an average of 25 kids in a classroom for about 6 hours a day, 180 days of the year. So if you hire just a babysitter and pay her $5 an hour to watch the kids and not teach them anything. 6hours x 180 days x $5/hour = $5400....Pretty cheap huh? OOOPS there are 25 kids....you pay a sitter by child...25 kids x $5400 = $135,000 / classroom / school year. 135,000 for just babysitting....not dealing with providing an education..........WHOA....
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:41:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By pipefitter: as a union member i take offense at being called an uneducated laggard by any other member. i hope that the moderators will lock this thread, and i hope you all have a nice day!!
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And you have the right to be offended. Socialists tend to forget that. And have a nice day as well. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:43:53 PM EST
wow...ten posts...that took longer than I thought it would.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:45:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2002 6:49:37 PM EST by Tondog]
Originally Posted By pipefitter: as a union member i take offense at being called an uneducated laggard by any other member. i hope that the moderators will lock this thread, and i hope you all have a nice day!!
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You can kiss my non-union never would be union ass and have shit day for the rest of your unionized days pinko!
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:46:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: [b]Teachers only work 3/4 of the year. They should only get 3/4 of a salary.[/b]
You are aware that most teachers work 9 months a year as teachers, then work the other 3 months doing work to continue being able to teach? My next door neighbor is a teacher, and she works year round. [quite]Ontop of that teaching is a cake job. You get tons of days off that real jobs don't get. You get the whole summer off. Once you have a lesson plan set all you have to do is teach the same thing every year like a robot.
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It's obvious by your attitude and ignorance that you must have dealt with some of the worst teachers in existence. Teaching isn't easy. If you don't believe me, I'll be more than happy to put you in a classroom of 30 six year olds and let you try and teach them anything. It is certainly not a "cake" job. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:52:29 PM EST
''The few have provided for the many,'' UTD general counsel Leslie Meek said. Well, hell, isn't that the definition of a liberal utopia?
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 12:59:49 PM EST
If the union needs a "fair share" from non-union members to be able to negotiate the contract and to prevent the members from subsidising the non-members, there are a couple of questions that should be asked by the school district: How much are you reducing the dues of the members as a result of this action? (I'll bet the answer is "That's an internal union matter!") What are the actual costs of negotiating? Companies that claim that they can't afford certain activities (or even to continue to operate the plant) are routinely asked for accounts to verify their assertions. Why shouldn't teachers do the same thing? By law, these fees can not be used for political activities if the worker opts out. Oddly enough, a number of unions seem to spend miniscule amounts on political activities according to their offical reports (when they are constantly electioneering) and, in a few unions, the opt-out procedure is roughly as smooth and easy as getting a civilian CCW permit in LA. I grew up in WV in the heart of United Mine Workers local 17. The coal company bosses would stop at nothing in the old days and we needed, desperately, the union. (Anyone hear of the Mingo County War or watch the movie Matewan?) But like any big organization run by humans, some union leaders get greedy and power mad. The pendulum has swung a long way from the bosses.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:00:26 PM EST
Annual dues for a full-time teacher are $831.20
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$831.20 out of a teacher's salary? That's a huge chunk. I can't believe more than only a very few teachers find that acceptable.
Teachers only work 3/4 of the year. They should only get 3/4 of a salary.
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3/4? Where do teachers work 3/4 of the year? In this state, students are only in school 180 days a year. I know it's even less in some other states. 180 is less than half of 365. Teachers make good money considering the number of days they work. Most I know even have enough free time to take summer jobs and an extra job near Christmas. It must be nice having quite a bit of hourly pay in addition to the full-time salary.z
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:07:01 PM EST
Teachers are horribly underpaid. My children attend a private school, tuition is 27.5k a year per kid, I asked my sons teacher what she makes, it is a meager 25k a year. 15 kids in each class, what are they doing wiht the money if it is not going to the teacher? We also have private tutors for our kids, the going rate for them is 60k a year. We get much better results from the private tutors... Wonder why?
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:10:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2002 2:10:51 PM EST by Happyshooter]
That a business would knuckle under and allow an outside collective to dictate terms to it is the shameful part.
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Please do not insult business unless you know the rules. There are several corps that pay our firm tens or hundreds of thousands PER YEAR to keep the union out or throw them out. The government provides free lawyers for the unions if they are trying to get in or want to stay in. In fact, in one thing I am working on the union was thrown out by the employees one year to the day after they got in (they get to stay in for the first year no matter what) because they sucked so bad. The major claim fought by the government for the union to stay in was that one asst manager smoked his cig too close to the employees who were trying to throw out the union by signing a petition outside the plant. Briefs and motions for that are over 200 pages now....all free for the union as the government argues their case for them. edited for syntax mistake and because using numerals instead of words looks too much like something toad would do
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:13:32 PM EST
I love the idea of an anti-union business, now there is capitilism at it's best!
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:26:31 PM EST
Anyone who doesn't think that teaching is a very tough job is kidding themselves. By the way Zoom, the 180 days worked are the normal work week. Before you start complaining that teachers work only 1/2 the year, I want to see your timesheets. Do you work Saturdays and Sundays? What about holidays? It takes from the 2d week in Sept to the 3d week in June for my district to get 180 teaching days in. A lot of teachers here work on the weekends grading or taking classes themselves. Maybe, just maybe, the reason that teachers are taking a second job at Christmas is to have enough money to pay the bills and still get some presents because they're underpaid. Philidelphia Gunman, the teachers only work 2/4 of the year and only get paid for 3/4 of the year. (They have the option of spreading their pay out over 12 months but the total is still the same.) Maybe teachers have to take a second job over the summer to make ends meet. Zoom, you seem to object to people taking second jobs. Does that apply to everyone or just to teachers?
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:49:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By pipefitter: as a union member i take offense at being called an uneducated laggard by any other member. i hope that the moderators will lock this thread, and i hope you all have a nice day!!
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You just have to consider the source of the offending comments, in this a case a silver spooned brat who hasn't earned or achieved anything on his own and apparently spends his time managing what was handed to him. He simply likes to come in here from time to time and deal with his obvious insecurities by pretending to be a self made man while lambasting others who have gotten to where they are through hard work and struggle. In the past he has also openly stated that he would be in favor of using concentration camp labor if it enhanced the value of his stock holdings. So that should tell us right there what he thinks of his fellow human beings. GodBlessTexas, this is a private forum and we sure do have the right to be offended. You should know that by now. That's why there is a Code of Conduct and posting porn, trolling, personal attacks, etc are not tolerated.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:50:27 PM EST
You teacher types use the same fuzzy math to justify your high salary as you teach to the students!! Normal worker = 8hr x 260days = 2080hrs x $20/hr = $41600 Teacher = 6hr x 180days = 1080hrs x $37.+ /hr Underpaid? Who are you kidding? If they want more, how about punching a clock for the full 2080 like the rest of us!! (Not to mention being held responsible for the product of their labors - a whole different subject.) As far as administrative fee, I think it is fine to not have it - so long as the law is changed so that non-union members DO NOT GET the pay rate or benefits the union members get!! I may not be in favor of what the unions have gotten for the teachers but I certainly believe the ONLY way a worker can get the compensation and conditions he deserves is through a union.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:56:56 PM EST
very sterotypical of most of you bashers,if i posted a thread about small buisness and corporate greed most buisness owners are going to raise hell and stand up for what they believe in, the same as i did. as for the reply from some texan , calling me a socialist do you really want to start calling names when your from texas? isnt there entire volumes of text dedicated to the bashing of texas? and for the super sharp fellow that used words like pinko and dildo when addressing me and my post im thinking you should look at the forum guidlines and rules, at this day and age to say these things against a board brother is just plain wrong! we stick together or we die alone!
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 2:11:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By hielo: Unions are simply a way for uneducated laggards to assure themselves a wage triple what they could earn on their own.
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Not all union members are "uneducated laggards". The guys that maintain the high speed digital network that makes the internet and long distance telephone calls possible are union. Aerospace workers, Cops, dispatchers, hell even Rush Limbaugh are union members. Does everbody in a union vote democrat and believe all there socialist propaganda? Hell no.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 2:14:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By zoom:
Teachers only work 3/4 of the year. They should only get 3/4 of a salary.
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3/4? Where do teachers work 3/4 of the year? In this state, students are only in school 180 days a year. I know it's even less in some other states. 180 is less than half of 365. Teachers make good money considering the number of days they work.
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And there are 52 weeks in the year, and most people don't work weekends, so that's another 104 days. What's your point?
Most I know even have enough free time to take summer jobs and an extra job near Christmas.
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Summer and "Winter" breaks facilitate that. I had three jobs in college. I sure must have had a lot of free time trying to make ends meet.
It must be nice having quite a bit of hourly pay in addition to the full-time salary.z
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My neighbors are a teacher and a cop. I see how they live, and it's not extravagent by any sense of the word. They both take extra jobs, sacrificing time away from their kids, to help support them and make ends meet. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 2:25:29 PM EST
Anyone who doesn't think that teaching is a very tough job is kidding themselves.
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Sorry, didn't mean to infer it wasn't tough. I've got several relatives that still teach, and I hear their complaints about dealing with parents and administrators. I've also seen the stats that show most teachers in this state quit teaching after only three years on the job! If it wasn't tough, then why the huge turn-over?
By the way Zoom, the 180 days worked are the normal work week.
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I'd love to only have to show-up at work less than half of the days of the year.
Maybe, just maybe, the reason that teachers are taking a second job at Christmas is to have enough money to pay the bills and still get some presents because they're underpaid.
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Underpaid? My great-niece just finished her first year teaching. She makes almost twice what I do and about $11K more per year than her older brother. Her brother has six years experience and a EE degree from a good college. He also works for a manufacturing company so he's there an hour before the 8 AM shift start, an hour after the 4 PM shift end, can't leave during lunch (it's manufacturing), there half a day on Saturdays, and many evenings and nights for maintenance. Maybe with teaching there isn't the chance for advancement to higher paying jobs, like there would be in private industry, but underpaid is certainly not a word I would use. I don't begrudge the money teachers are paid, but I don't agree with any of the underpaid complaints.
Zoom, you seem to object to people taking second jobs. Does that apply to everyone or just to teachers?
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Once upon a time, the word "moonlighting" had a very negative connotation. My point wasn't that it was bad, but that most teachers I know get so bored they take extra jobs and have extra income. My great-niece is here now sitting in my office stuffing envelopes for minimum wage because she's bored out of her mind this summer. Amusingly, I just asked her how she felt about older brother making much less than her when he had more experience, a much more difficult degree, worked more hours per day, and had spent many times as much time to find that job as she did to find hers. She replied, that he had it easy because he didn't have to deal with crazy parents. Interesting.z
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 2:57:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2002 2:58:36 PM EST by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By Derek45: Not all union members are "uneducated laggards". The guys that maintain the high speed digital network that makes the internet and long distance telephone calls possible are union.
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BS. I worked at that level, and none of the guys who operated above the physical layer were union, and most of the physical layer stuff was leased from other entities.
Does everbody in a union vote democrat and believe all there socialist propaganda? Hell no.
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But the union still pushes a socialist agenda. How can that be good? Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 3:12:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: But the union still pushes a socialist agenda. How can that be good?
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Because it provides some degree of balance and helps keep ruthless capitalism from running totally amok. I'm just as leary of unregulated capitalism as I am of socialism. Have you already signed up as spy in the TIPS program currently favored by our business friendly administration? As much as I generally disagree with democraps and groups like the ACLU, I'm glad they are here to oppose programs as onerous as this one. That's the balance I speak of. I hate to even begin to contemplate where environmental protection or workplace safety would be if left solely up to the Republicans. I think the liberals tend to go overboard to some degree on those issues, but they are issues that need to be dealt with and the Republicans would never address them if left to their own devices.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 3:13:07 PM EST
I would have absolutely no problem with teacher's unions if they made one small change: Promotion and salary should be determined by an objective merit-based system, not butt time in the job. I'd also like to see tenure be reviewed if there are sufficient customer complaints (i.e., pissed off parents). Once again, also based on an objective standard. But for some reason unions, and especially teacher's unions, have serious objections to any sort of meritocracy in their ranks. And that's the fundamental problem; unions as they are currently structured reward mediocrity.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 3:16:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: But the union still pushes a socialist agenda. How can that be good?
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Because it provides some degree of balance and helps keep ruthless capitalism from running totally amok. I'm just as leary of unregulated capitalism as I am of socialism.
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Do you truly trust those who speak for you as the head of your union? Are they really interested in you, or the power you provide?
Have you already signed up as spy in the TIPS program currently favored by our business friendly administration?
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No, and I won't be. It's my civic duty to report criminal activity, and failure to do so in Texas is in itself a crime. Doesn't mean I'll be spying on anyone. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 3:29:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By pipefitter: as a union member i take offense at being called an uneducated laggard by any other member. i hope that the moderators will lock this thread, and i hope you all have a nice day!!
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You just have to consider the source of the offending comments, in this a case a silver spooned brat who hasn't earned or achieved anything on his own and apparently spends his time managing what was handed to him. He simply likes to come in here from time to time and deal with his obvious insecurities by pretending to be a self made man while lambasting others who have gotten to where they are through hard work and struggle. In the past he has also openly stated that he would be in favor of using concentration camp labor if it enhanced the value of his stock holdings. So that should tell us right there what he thinks of his fellow human beings. GodBlessTexas, this is a private forum and we sure do have the right to be offended. You should know that by now. That's why there is a Code of Conduct and posting porn, trolling, personal attacks, etc are not tolerated.
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you pegged me Boomer. Damn that was good.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 4:45:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By hielo:
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By pipefitter: as a union member i take offense at being called an uneducated laggard by any other member. i hope that the moderators will lock this thread, and i hope you all have a nice day!!
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You just have to consider the source of the offending comments, in this a case a silver spooned brat who hasn't earned or achieved anything on his own and apparently spends his time managing what was handed to him. He simply likes to come in here from time to time and deal with his obvious insecurities by pretending to be a self made man while lambasting others who have gotten to where they are through hard work and struggle. In the past he has also openly stated that he would be in favor of using concentration camp labor if it enhanced the value of his stock holdings. So that should tell us right there what he thinks of his fellow human beings. GodBlessTexas, this is a private forum and we sure do have the right to be offended. You should know that by now. That's why there is a Code of Conduct and posting porn, trolling, personal attacks, etc are not tolerated.
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you pegged me Boomer. Damn that was good.
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Boomer is the ar15.com Union Thug[whacko]
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 4:51:27 PM EST
He obviously doesn't beleive that taking a small amount of money and turning it into a large amount of money constitutes work, I guess if I had stolen it (vis-a-vis unions) it would have sanitized it a bit. Oh well. Was good for a laugh though.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:01:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By CAPITALIST: Boomer is the ar15.com Union Thug[whacko]
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I guess that makes you and hielo the AR15.com company thugs? [;)]
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:02:20 PM EST
Hielo,I'm educated,I'm Union, I've worked for what I have and you can kiss my ass. I hope all of you anti Union guys enjoy working for low pay, no benefits, and kissing your employers ass. I'm sure most the guys here bitching about the Unions are the company guys with fat salaries round mouths and pistolgrip ears.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:06:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By CAPITALIST: Boomer is the ar15.com Union Thug[whacko]
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I guess that makes you and hielo the AR15.com company thugs? [;)]
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Yep. I don't know about hielo, but I own my own company. They don't call me CAPITALIST for nothin [;)]
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:31:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By CAPITALIST:
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By CAPITALIST: Boomer is the ar15.com Union Thug[whacko]
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I guess that makes you and hielo the AR15.com company thugs? [;)]
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Yep. I don't know about hielo, but I own my own company. They don't call me CAPITALIST for nothin [;)]
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I work for no one but myself. I have quite attractive ears and a silver spoon I keep tucked in my back pocket, just in case I start thinking that what I do matters at all. , the justification that losers will go through...
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:35:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By hielo: ...the justification that losers will go through...
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How odd, that's nearly the exact thought I have about you every time I read one of your ill-informed, regurgitated anti-union rants.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:45:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARMALITE-FAN:
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan:
Originally Posted By hielo: Unions are simply a way for uneducated laggards to assure themselves a wage triple what they could earn on their own.
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Fucking a man. I hate unions in general but I especially hate teacher's unions. [b]Teachers only work 3/4 of the year. They should only get 3/4 of a salary.[/b] Ontop of that teaching is a cake job. You get tons of days off that real jobs don't get. You get the whole summer off. Once you have a lesson plan set all you have to do is teach the same thing every year like a robot.
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They do get pay for 3/4 of the year.They have the option of being paid the same amount over the whole year.Cake job?Obviously you have never taught.Being a GOOD teacher is very demanding.
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What I meant was that teachers should only make 3/4 as much as a job with comparable qualifications would pay becuase they only put in 3/4 as many hours (that is being generous).
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:57:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: I certainly believe the ONLY way a worker can get the compensation and conditions he deserves is through a union.
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Hey, just curious if you can point me to a high paying union job I can start at? You know, upwards of say, $65k/year with full benefits? No? Just checking.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:05:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil: Hey, just curious if you can point me to a high paying union job I can start at? You know, upwards of say, $65k/year with full benefits? No? Just checking.
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[url=https://208.169.18.206/clients/bnsf/publicjobs/CanGetJob.cfm?job_id=10322&req=PS10322]Conductor Trainee[/url] See if you can hack it.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:31:54 PM EST
Professor Evil I was refering to WORKERS. Not some pencil pusher that hasn't actually made somthing in his life. You know, the kinda guy that cries to me at o dark thirty that he is freezing to death because he can't light the pilot on his furnace.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:49:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By hielo: Teachers are horribly underpaid. My children attend a private school, tuition is 27.5k a year per kid, I asked my sons teacher what she makes, it is a meager 25k a year. 15 kids in each class, what are they doing wiht the money if it is not going to the teacher?
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That's closer to what they would make starting out in a public school. On average across the country they make twice that, and if memory serves most private non-parochial school teachers make more.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 7:42:17 PM EST
All you guys whining about unions being worthless,communist and for laggards can suck a fart outta my ass! If you don't like unions,don't work at a trade that requires membership in one! WTF? A union just collectivly bargains(for its members) with companies over compensation for the skills and knowledge they require.What could be more American or fair than that? I don't agree with all my unions politics,and sometimes the union can protect zombies(which irritates me)but for the most part its a good deal.In the private sector unions usually work with their industry on give and take in good times and bad.The union members lock in benifits and companies have known labor costs for the length of the contract.So whats the problem? $800+ a year for dues is pretty stiff.And Teachers unions are kinda quazi government.And government unions have a whole other level of leverage.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 10:51:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil: Hey, just curious if you can point me to a high paying union job I can start at? You know, upwards of say, $65k/year with full benefits? No? Just checking.
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[url=http://208.169.18.206/clients/bnsf/publicjobs/CanGetJob.cfm?job_id=10322&req=PS10322]Conductor Trainee[/url] See if you can hack it.
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Well, lessee:
Position Synopsis: Application Deadline: July 26, 2002 Reports to: Trainmaster Duties: Obtains/ receives relays and/or acts upon oral or written instructions/information from the conductor, dispatcher, switch foreman, yard master, or other personnel, in person or by other communication devices (e.g. radio, beeper, telephone). Operates various designs of track switches and derails in order to change the route of the engine or cars within yards or on the road. Checks switch point to make sure switch is properly aligned. Observes/ monitors track conditions (e.g. broken rails, defective switches, weather-related problems, etc.). Inspects train cars or other equipment before leaving the yard or when required. Applies and releases hand brakes. Observes condition of passing train and reports results to appropriate personnel. Gets on and off equipment while train is performing industrial station or yard switching, to set or release hand brakes or other duties. Rides moving car by hanging on grab irons or ladder, sometimes for extended periods of time. Prepares required reports such as time slips, delay reports, accident reports, etc. Observes, interprets and relays hand, lantern, and other signals affecting the movement of the train, and judges and controls the speed and clearance distance of cars. Qualifications: High school diploma / GED required. Ability to work on-call 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. Ability to work outdoors in a variety of weather conditions. Ability to travel to job sites around the area and remain on site perhaps for days at a time. Weekend and holiday work required. BNSF conductor training program provided. We are proud to be an EEO/AA employer M/F/D/V. We maintain a drug-free workplace and perform pre-employment substance abuse testing.
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So, a GED and the ability to drive around to any jobsite, and the willingness to be on call, merits $65K/year? Shit, I wasted six years getting a MSCS when I could've gone and inspected track instead. Then again, it's in Chicago. Yeccchhh.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 10:59:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Boomer: [url=https://208.169.18.206/clients/bnsf/publicjobs/CanGetJob.cfm?job_id=10322&req=PS10322]Conductor Trainee[/url] See if you can hack it.
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I don't see the salary mentioned on that page...?? Sounds like fun, though. Sign me up.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 11:06:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: Professor Evil I was refering to WORKERS. Not some pencil pusher that hasn't actually made somthing in his life. You know, the kinda guy that cries to me at o dark thirty that he is freezing to death because he can't light the pilot on his furnace.
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I know a great many "pencil pushers" that might suprise you with what they can do, besides light their pilot lights. I wonder how many of the "workers" you refer to actually would like their kids to do what they are doing, or be a pencil pusher? I understand my uncle (a former coal miner, btw...a union job) told his kids to do anything they could to get what you so kindly term a pencil pushing job. Oh, and making things is a lot of fun. Why do you think Engineers (you know, EE's, ME's, etc.) want to get into their fields? Most of them want to go design and build stuff. Heck, I am working on becoming a machinist as a hobby. But that doesn't count, cuz i'm not joining the union after I'm through with the schooling, right? Blatant stereotyping doesn't get you anywhere, and your first statement certainly seemed exactly what you meant until someone called you on it.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 11:47:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARMALITE-FAN: They do get pay for 3/4 of the year.They have the option of being paid the same amount over the whole year.Cake job?Obviously you have never taught.Being a GOOD teacher is very demanding.
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How many good teachers are there? Me thinks it ain't many. Unions blow. In a more enlightened state (like say, VA), law would forbid collective bargaining by state employees, thereby destroying unions and there ability to pull this kind of shit.
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