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Posted: 3/14/2005 11:58:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:00:36 PM EST
Yes. Like most sovereign nations, NZ also has an Army and an Air Force.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:02:53 PM EST
I would hope that any island nation would have some type of Navy
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:04:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Yes. Like most sovereign nations, NZ also has an Army and an Air Force.



Uh they no longer have an air force.



CRC
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:06:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 12:11:58 PM EST by Wobblin-Goblin]
Yep. I stumbled on one of their manuevers last year while on vacation:


Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:07:22 PM EST
Really?

I wonder who these guys are then...
Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF)
www.airforce.mil.nz/home/main.htm


Originally Posted By CRC:
Uh they no longer have an air force.

CRC

Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:08:56 PM EST
No fighter jets= no air force.

CRC
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:11:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Yes. Like most sovereign nations, NZ also has an Army and an Air Force.



Uh they no longer have an air force.



CRC

Really? I'm sure the guys in the RNZAF will be most displeased to learn this little tidbit.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:12:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
No fighter jets= no air force.

CRC

Brilliant assessment.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:15:10 PM EST
I'm sure a submariner being chased by a P-3 might beg to differ.

Then again, Ireland's not doing any better these days.

NTM
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:21:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:24:49 PM EST
The RNZAF has:
1 Boeing 727,
1 Boeing 757,
5 C-130H Hercules,
6 P3-K Orions,
14 Bell UH-1H Iroquois,
5 Bell 47G Sioux,
13 Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainer,
and 5 Beech King Air B200.

There are 2523 people in the RNZAF.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:25:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 12:30:36 PM EST by 2A373]
.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:28:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 12:54:20 PM EST by green-grizzly]
The Navy has 3 frigates. Here is a description of the ships.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:32:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 12:57:23 PM EST by green-grizzly]
Check out the homepage of the army: the front page is all about the "1945-2005 COMMEMORATIVE RUGBY TOUR." You can enlist online if anyone is interested.

The Army has two infantry "regiments" (actutally battalions). There is also a territorial army with six "regiments" (actually companies).
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:34:29 PM EST
New Zealand Targets F-16s in Defence Review




Monday, December 13, 1999 - New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark said on Tuesday she had ordered a defense policy review that would look closely at scrapping a US$343 million deal to lease F-16 strike jets from the United States.

Clark said earlier her government would focus its defense spending on the army, and apparently its involvement in the multinational force in East Timor had exposed deficiencies in New Zealand's defense capabilities, particularly air transport.

One possible alternative would be to upgrade New Zealand's five C-130 Hercules transport aircraft. Clark said the government had been advised there would be no penalty payments for pulling out of deal provided six months' notice was given.

She said after the November 27 election that U.S. President Bill Clinton had asked her to delay a decision on the F-16 deal until after the arrival of the new U.S. ambassador to New Zealand, former senator Carol Moseley-Braun. Moseley-Braun was due to take up her new post on Wednesday.

Clark said defense and the F-16 deal had been discussed at her government's first cabinet meeting on Monday. She said she expected the policy review to be completed in two stages, with the first stage to examine whether to go ahead with the deal to lease the older model F-16 A/B jets to replace New Zealand's aging, subsonic Skyhawk A-4 aircraft.

Clark to have completed the F-16 review by March.

Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:35:41 PM EST
Journal of Electronic Defense



April 01, 2000

New Zealand's new government has announced that the country will not go ahead with arrangements made by the previous government to lease 28 F-16 fighters from the US (see "New Zealand to Lease F-16s," JED, September 1999, p. 20).
The decision was made following the release of a report, commissioned by the new government, evaluating the lease-to-buy agreement. The report, a copy of which was obtained by JED, noted budget constraints and urged that all Defence programs be reviewed on a project-by-project basis. Following the report's recommendations, New Zealand will continue to rely on its fleet of 19 A-4 Skyhawks.
Funding for the lease of the F-16s will instead be channeled towards projects aimed at developing army mobility and communications, naval and air support and air and maritime surveillance, including Project Sirius, which seeks to upgrade the country's P-3K Orions (see "Rising Stakes Focus Asia-Pacific Powers on EW," JED, January 2000, p.

...
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:42:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
The RNZAF has:
1 Boeing 727,
1 Boeing 757,
5 C-130H Hercules,
6 P3-K Orions,
14 Bell UH-1H Iroquois,
5 Bell 47G Sioux,
13 Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainer,
and 5 Beech King Air B200.

There are 2523 people in the RNZAF.





BTW, do they support the US?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:46:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
I'm sure a submariner being chased by a P-3 might beg to differ.

Then again, Ireland's not doing any better these days.

NTM




Ireland would, imo, have a tough time running a decent Search and Rescue mission with what they've got now.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:50:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 12:51:41 PM EST by green-grizzly]
What happened to the Skyhawks?

Geez, New Zealand is up for the taking if anyone wants it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:30:50 PM EST
The Skyhawks are long retired.

The Royal New Zealand Air Force obtained ten A-4F and four TA-4F Skyhawks from the United States in 1970. The aircraft were re-designated as A- 4K and TA-4K. An additional ten (eight A-4G and two TA-4G) were purchased from Australia in 1984.



From 1985 to 1989, New Zealand conducted a major Skyhawk upgrade program involving installation of "glass" cockpits, HUDs (Head Up Displays), new acquisition/tracking radars and navigation systems, removal of the avionics "hump," wing re-sparring, and up-grading of landing gear and control surfaces.

RNZAF Skyhawks continued in active service until phase-out began in 2001. Operations by Number 75 Squadron at Ohakea airfield in New Zealand ceased at the end of September 2001, and Number 2 Squadron at the Naval Air Station at Nowra in New South Wales, Australia, terminated operations at the end of January 2002.

Following retirement from active duty, New Zealand Skyhawks were put up for sale but, to date, the identity of a prospective buyer has not been discovered. On 31 July 2004, A-4K serial number 6205 (BuNo 157908), the last of the RNZAF Skyhawks, was flown from Ohakea air base to be "placed in mothballs at Woodbourne.


Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
What happened to the Skyhawks?

Geez, New Zealand is up for the taking if anyone wants it.

Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:32:32 PM EST
According to an RAAF chap I was talking to in Balad, RNZAF A-4s are currently being leased (inc pilots) to Australia. I'm not entirely sure how that works.

Yes, the SAR situation of Ireland is pretty depressing. Still, it has been a lot worse, and a bunch new helicopters have finally been ordered after the S-92 fiasco.

NTM
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:42:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
I'm sure a submariner being chased by a P-3 might beg to differ.

Then again, Ireland's not doing any better these days.

NTM



Ireland is in the same very advantageous position as New Zealand… a very powerful and well equipped neighbors armed forces within spitting distance.

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:53:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 1:53:31 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By Spade:


Ireland would, imo, have a tough time running a decent Search and Rescue mission with what they've got now.



Ireland can call on the British Royal Navy and RAF SAR helos and patrol aircraft if the need arises. The Sea King SAR helos from RNAS Culdrose and RAF St Mawgan, and Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft from RAF Kinloss regularly support the Irish Navy and Coast Guard.

www.dcmnr.gov.ie/Marine/Irish+Coast+Guard+IRCG/Search+and+Rescue/Helicopters/Maximum+Ranges+of+SAR+Aircraft/

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:00:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 2:03:07 PM EST by dport]
A pretty good one at that. They usually have a Kiwi bird on the stacks.

ETA: For their size.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:03:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
The RNZAF has:
1 Boeing 727,
1 Boeing 757,
5 C-130H Hercules,
6 P3-K Orions,
14 Bell UH-1H Iroquois,
5 Bell 47G Sioux,
13 Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainer,
and 5 Beech King Air B200.

There are 2523 people in the RNZAF.



So what you're saying is that their entire air force is roughly the equivalent of one of our aircraft carrier air wings?

Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:05:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By dport:
A pretty good one at that. They usually have a Kiwi bird on the stacks.

ETA: For their size.



+1 Punch way above their weight. One of their Frigates provided gunfire support to US/UK Marines in OIF.

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:08:02 PM EST
I've always heard that they had some top notch commandos.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:08:11 PM EST
In the AG we like to see Brit, Aussie, and NZ ships. We know they are professional, and can speak the language. Although, sometimes we have our own lingos that get in the way. Took us a while to figure out just what in the hell a cable was.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:09:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By jb241970:
I've always heard that they had some top notch commandos.



Kiwi SAS are top notch… they were in Afghanistan from day one and also in OIF…

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:08:51 AM EST
New Zeland fought with us in WWII.

New Zeland fought with us in Korea.

New Zeland is fighting with us in the current war.

New Zeland also provides security in the Pacific, around it's own island.

The New Zeland Navy is capable of operating integrated into our own.

I'd say for a VERY small country, New Zeland has done a hell of alot more than most of them out there for us.

Ross
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:12:22 AM EST
Let's take 'em over. Consider the element of surprise in our favor.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:04:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ross:
New Zeland fought with us in WWII.

New Zeland fought with us in Korea.

New Zeland is fighting with us in the current war.

New Zeland also provides security in the Pacific, around it's own island.

The New Zeland Navy is capable of operating integrated into our own.

I'd say for a VERY small country, New Zeland has done a hell of alot more than most of them out there for us.

Ross



You forgot they sent troops to Vietnam as well.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:31:26 AM EST
IIRC they sent a bn to SNV, and the Australians sent a bde.

NZ is hardly pulling its own weight. This is a country with a population of 4 million, and all it can muster is two bns of infantry, 120 SAS, 3 frigates, one of which is not even equipped with missiles, and no combat aircraft. Seriously, my state National Guard has more combat battalions, more SF, and a MUCH larger air force, with only half of the population!

NZ spends 1% of its GDP on defense, cowering behind the USN and NORAD for its defense. All the while bitching about the ugly americans. Just like the rest of the western world (UK excepted).
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:37:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
IIRC they sent a bn to SNV, and the Australians sent a bde.

NZ is hardly pulling its own weight. This is a country with a population of 4 million, and all it can muster is two bns of infantry, 120 SAS, 3 frigates, one of which is not even equipped with missiles, and no combat aircraft. Seriously, my state National Guard has more combat battalions, more SF, and a MUCH larger air force, with only half of the population!

NZ spends 1% of its GDP on defense, cowering behind the USN and NORAD for its defense. All the while bitching about the ugly americans. Just like the rest of the western world (UK excepted).



Let's see, how many combat aircraft does the City of Los Angeles have? How many battalions of infantry? How many warships?

Your state couldn't afford your national guard if it were not for the rest of the nation helping with the bill.

And while you may here protests in NZ, just as you do in Australia and the UK, they stand beside us, unlike Canada.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:02:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
Geez, New Zealand is up for the taking if anyone wants it.



I think Austalia would have unpleasent things to say to anyone trying such a thing. In accord with the 1951 ANZUS Treaty we would as well.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:42:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
IIRC they sent a bn to SNV, and the Australians sent a bde.

NZ is hardly pulling its own weight. This is a country with a population of 4 million, and all it can muster is two bns of infantry, 120 SAS, 3 frigates, one of which is not even equipped with missiles, and no combat aircraft. Seriously, my state National Guard has more combat battalions, more SF, and a MUCH larger air force, with only half of the population!

NZ spends 1% of its GDP on defense, cowering behind the USN and NORAD for its defense. All the while bitching about the ugly americans. Just like the rest of the western world (UK excepted).



Sorry, SF does not equate to SAS. We have very few SAS members as well. SF is more equivalent to our Commando regiments sorta except i think they have different jobs. SAS is more up with Delta Force. Isnt Delta force based on the SAS?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:44:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By xinflt:
I would hope that any island nation would have some type of Navy



One would think.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:05:08 PM EST
Still an invasion of NZ would be easy.

South Island first, then the North Island.

Of course if Gandalf and Frodo are on their side it might get tougher.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:09:55 PM EST

IIRC they sent a bn to SNV, and the Australians sent a bde.

NZ is hardly pulling its own weight. This is a country with a population of 4 million, and all it can muster is two bns of infantry, 120 SAS, 3 frigates, one of which is not even equipped with missiles, and no combat aircraft. Seriously, my state National Guard has more combat battalions, more SF, and a MUCH larger air force, with only half of the population!

NZ spends 1% of its GDP on defense, cowering behind the USN and NORAD for its defense. All the while bitching about the ugly americans. Just like the rest of the western world (UK excepted).



Who the fuck is cowering behind the USN and NORAD? Who the fuck isnt pulling their own weight?

All it can muster? You need to do some reading fast, Mr Grizzly. We sent a company to Vietnam as part of the Aussie battalion, plus support elements. Our SAS in Vietnam had a fearsome kill rate and an extremely low casualty rate, just like our regular troops. Guess thats what you get from a professional force, not a bunch of dope smoking conscripts.

Do us the honour of keeping your shit opinions to yourself. Our troops have always been highly trained and professional. For the (very small) size of our country, we hold our end up pretty well.

You have obviously never been to NZ and know nothing about the country. I really hope you are not typical of the standing opinion of yanks about kiwis. If this is how you talk about your allies, is it any wonder there are supposedly all these people cursing the 'ugly americans'.

We have dickheads in our country like you CLEARLY do in yours.

By the way....I'm in theatre. Where are you?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:43:00 PM EST
But who would really want to invade NZ?

There is a reason they have alot of sheep

Their test cricket team cant even get past day 5 of a test match


you know we love you kiwis
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:47:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By FiftyCalibre:

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
IIRC they sent a bn to SNV, and the Australians sent a bde.

NZ is hardly pulling its own weight. This is a country with a population of 4 million, and all it can muster is two bns of infantry, 120 SAS, 3 frigates, one of which is not even equipped with missiles, and no combat aircraft. Seriously, my state National Guard has more combat battalions, more SF, and a MUCH larger air force, with only half of the population!

NZ spends 1% of its GDP on defense, cowering behind the USN and NORAD for its defense. All the while bitching about the ugly americans. Just like the rest of the western world (UK excepted).



Sorry, SF does not equate to SAS. We have very few SAS members as well. SF is more equivalent to our Commando regiments sorta except i think they have different jobs. SAS is more up with Delta Force. Isnt Delta force based on the SAS?



The services' various special forces vary in mission. Army special forces specialize in operating among foreign nationals in guerrilla wars, speaking to them in their language, gathering intelligence, training them, persuading them to our side.

Navy SEALs have various teams that specialize in counter-terrorism, commando land operations, diving/demolitions, and commando sea operations (like taking over oil platforms and ships).

Air Force special forces rescue downed pilots.

From what I understand about Delta, they take the best of these guys and adopt them to counter-terrorism and hostage rescue, a lot like the SAS, yeah.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:45:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By FiftyCalibre:
But who would really want to invade NZ?

There is a reason they have alot of sheep

Their test cricket team cant even get past day 5 of a test match


you know we love you kiwis



All you aussies are ex-convicts… the Kiwis are voluntary emigrants. Is that what pisses you aussies off?

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:59:39 PM EST
Yep there are in A-Stan in small numbers.

Originally Posted By Penguin_101:

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
The RNZAF has:
1 Boeing 727,
1 Boeing 757,
5 C-130H Hercules,
6 P3-K Orions,
14 Bell UH-1H Iroquois,
5 Bell 47G Sioux,
13 Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainer,
and 5 Beech King Air B200.

There are 2523 people in the RNZAF.





BTW, do they support the US?

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:19:00 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:22:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 12:23:39 AM EST by bullethead]

Originally Posted By PaulR72:

IIRC they sent a bn to SNV, and the Australians sent a bde.

NZ is hardly pulling its own weight. This is a country with a population of 4 million, and all it can muster is two bns of infantry, 120 SAS, 3 frigates, one of which is not even equipped with missiles, and no combat aircraft. Seriously, my state National Guard has more combat battalions, more SF, and a MUCH larger air force, with only half of the population!

NZ spends 1% of its GDP on defense, cowering behind the USN and NORAD for its defense. All the while bitching about the ugly americans. Just like the rest of the western world (UK excepted).



Who the fuck is cowering behind the USN and NORAD? Who the fuck isnt pulling their own weight?

All it can muster? You need to do some reading fast, Mr Grizzly. We sent a company to Vietnam as part of the Aussie battalion, plus support elements. Our SAS in Vietnam had a fearsome kill rate and an extremely low casualty rate, just like our regular troops. Guess thats what you get from a professional force, not a bunch of dope smoking conscripts.

Do us the honour of keeping your shit opinions to yourself. Our troops have always been highly trained and professional. For the (very small) size of our country, we hold our end up pretty well.

You have obviously never been to NZ and know nothing about the country. I really hope you are not typical of the standing opinion of yanks about kiwis. If this is how you talk about your allies, is it any wonder there are supposedly all these people cursing the 'ugly americans'.

We have dickheads in our country like you CLEARLY do in yours.

By the way....I'm in theatre. Where are you?



Hey PaulR72 F him assholes are everywhere. You guys are great thanks for doing your part. And for anyone else the Kiwi's are not in the rear with the bear and the gear. Unlike most of the other supporters of at least OEF. I my experience they were and probably are chomping at the bit to go kill Bad Guys and doing a fair job of it. Considering the Four Million Population (half of NY city and the same as LA) what they have rotated through is a lot of people. So Grizzly STFU!!

P.S. PaulR72: Leave the damn Cobras alone.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:28:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By FiftyCalibre:
But who would really want to invade NZ?

There is a reason they have alot of sheep

Their test cricket team cant even get past day 5 of a test match


you know we love you kiwis



All you aussies are ex-convicts… the Kiwis are voluntary emigrants. Is that what pisses you aussies off?

ANdy



Well their beer sucks and their PM has a voice lower than mine (shes a MAN!). And they only have 1 cricket player who is good enough to be in the Aussie cricket team (Danniel Vettori). Hell, my former teacher would have played for NZ if he didint screw his knee in rugby
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:37:11 AM EST
Fifty, mate, you come from the land of Fosters and XXXX and you say OUR beer sux??!!

bullethead, thanks for the back up. Thats the best thing about the clowns here...sooner or later, the good ones show up.

Andy, stop poking them with sticks.

Also, lets not get into a 'my SF can beat up your SF' argument. They all have the same toys, do the same training, and work together.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:00:41 AM EST
Fosters is shit and queenslanders just want to get drunk.

Theres a reason why theres no FOsters here and theres heaps in the US...we dont want it but since they dont know any better, we sell it to them
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:05:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By FiftyCalibre:
Fosters is shit and queenslanders just want to get drunk.

Theres a reason why theres no FOsters here and theres heaps in the US...we dont want it but since they dont know any better, we sell it to them



They sell VB in my local off licence!…

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 5:51:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
According to an RAAF chap I was talking to in Balad, RNZAF A-4s are currently being leased (inc pilots) to Australia. I'm not entirely sure how that works.



That ended a few years ago. All the NZ A-4's have been retired now. The arrangement was that the RNZAF A-4's were used as aggressors to stage mock attacks on Australian navy ships to give the ship crews training at air defence. Australia paid for a certain number of flying hours per year for this. It was cheaper than doing the same thing with the Australian airforce F/A-18's. The RNZAF got a certain number of "free" flying hours each year training it's pilots for anti-ship attacks.

The current NZ government is left wing and the Prime Minister, Helen Clark, is on record saying she thinks the main role of the NZ military should be to serve in UN peacekeeping missions. Idiot politicians aside, on a man for man basis, NZ military personell are highly trained and very professional.

Green grizzly, is your state national guard funded entirely from your state budget, or does it also receive federal funding? (I'll give you a hint, it is getting federal dollars) Cut off the federal money and see how much of a national guard you can afford entirely from the state budget. NZ doesn't have the luxury of having someone else putting extra dollars into their military budget.

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