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Posted: 9/2/2005 6:09:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:09:24 AM EDT by Phil_A_Steen]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385463

WTF? Iraqi Freedom is worth more than American blood? Send the 82nd to NO!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:10:03 AM EDT
Send in Delta and Rangers to take care of business
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:13:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:13:34 AM EDT

82nd is far better trained and equipped to handle Iraqi insurgents, as opposed to American civilian lawbreakers.

Send people where you will get their best efforts.

Also, if I am not mistaken, Posse Comitatus (sp?) prevents the 82nd from carrying ammo even if they were helping out in the Gulf coast.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:15:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:16:24 AM EDT
(sigh)

What do you guys suggest we do? Postpone the mission in Iraq so we can deal with this? I mean we've just been fighting a war over there for over two years.

For the record, 2 battalions of the 82nd are going to Iraq. That's been planned now for a couple of weeks. However, there was a report last night stating that a whole brigade of the 82nd is going to Louisiana to help out down there.

I hate how some are trying to politicize a disaster to get in a little extra Bush bashing. Do some of you never get enough?

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:18:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:20:07 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:19:33 AM EDT
I hate to break it to you, but the global war on islamic-fascism is more important that some thugs running around the streets of NO.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:19:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:20:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:26:54 AM EDT by KlubMarcus]

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
WTF? Iraqi Freedom is worth more than American blood? Send the 82nd to NO!

No way, I'd rather pull all the relief efforts back and let the looters come to us. Then we can screen them for disease and wether or not they voted Republican. If they're infected or they're Democraps, force 'em back or shoot 'em. Then we can build a wall similar to the movie "Escape from NY". It seems like all the Smart-Americans left 'Nawlins before the hurricane hit.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:20:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:22:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:


The military is meant to break things and kill people - it you want more of New Orleans broken or need some killing done then send them in. The are not a police force, they are trained killers. Misusing them as a police force get all kinds of bad things happening. The military does have civil affairs units which ought to be depoloyed.



+1,000
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:24:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:24:32 AM EDT by olyarms]

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
I hate to break it to you, but the global war on islamic-fascism is more important that some thugs running around the streets of NO.


NO isn't just about NO, it's propaganda for peice of shit thugs. It will start to spread just like the RK riots.

ETA: Than we will have a true shtf in many major citys.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:24:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385463

WTF? Iraqi Freedom is worth more than American blood? Send the 82nd to NO!



WTF?? More like WWYSTFU ....why won't you..........

Excuse me, but are YOU dropping EVERYTHING in your life to go help in NO??

As a country we can't drop EVERYTHING to go help NO.... Don't be a dildo.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:26:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
I hate to break it to you, but the global war on islamic-fascism is more important that some thugs running around the streets of NO.



Yes, Sir the war on terrorism trumps this bullshit in NO. 10 time out of 10.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:27:35 AM EDT
People in here never cease to amaze me.

Send in infrantry troops to stop looters and rapists. What other fucking good ideas do you have?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:28:45 AM EDT
NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - U.S. troops poured into New Orleans on Friday with shoot-to-kill orders to scare off looting gangs so rescuers can help thousands of people stranded by Hurricane Katrina, find the dead and clean up the carnage.

Faced with a growing threat of anarchy after a natural disaster that may have killed thousands of people, the U.S. military rushed in National Guard reinforcements.

Armed looters have had the run of this famed city of jazz musicians and French Quarter bars since Katrina pounded the U.S. Gulf Coast on Monday, but they were warned not to push their luck.

"These troops are battle-tested. They have M-16s and are locked and loaded," Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said on Thursday night of one group of 300 National Guard troops being deployed here after recent duty in Iraq. "These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will."

Most residents are desperate for an end to the violence and a crackdown on looters was ordered when it became clear the looting and gunfire were hurting relief efforts.

Bodies rotted away on busy streets, gunmen opened fire on troops and rescue workers, and seriously ill people braved the floodwaters in wheelchairs to search for help.

Officials said the death toll was certainly in the hundreds and probably in the thousands, but details remained sketchy.

"Call it biblical. Call it apocalyptic. Whatever you want to call it, take your pick," said 46-year-old Robert Lewis.

He was rescued as floodwaters invaded his home and endured two days of diabolical conditions at a shelter before finally being evacuated to Houston.

"There were bodies floating past my front door. I've never seen anything like that," he said, near tears from apparent emotional exhaustion.

Pentagon officials said an additional 4,200 National Guard troops would be deployed over three days and that 3,000 regular Army soldiers may also be sent in to tackle the armed gangs that have looted stores across New Orleans.

"We will not tolerate lawlessness, or violence, or interference with the evacuation," Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff said.

The reinforcements mean nearly 50,000 part-time National Guard and active-duty military personnel are being used in the biggest domestic relief and security effort in U.S. history.

FRUSTRATION

But the deployment has so far failed to guarantee an effective rescue plan and many of Katrina's victims are increasingly frustrated at being left to fend for themselves.

Under pressure from some Democrats for allegedly acting too slowly and for cutting federal funding for improvements to New Orleans' levees, President Bush was to visit the city on Friday.

The U.S. Senate approved his request for $10.5 billion in emergency disaster relief late on Thursday, with billions more in aid seen passing Congress in coming weeks.

The help cannot come quick enough in New Orleans, known to those who love it as the Big Easy.

Flooded city hospitals had no electricity and critically ill patients were dying because they no longer had access to oxygen, insulin or other medicines.

Doctors worked around the clock to keep patients alive and evacuate them but logistical arrangements were chaotic and made worse by the violence. At one hospital, one evacuation was called off when a gunman opened fire on doctors and soldiers.

Shelters set up to care for thousands of evacuees in New Orleans were still without food and water early on Friday and families slept near corpses and piles of human waste.

Lake Pontchartrain's muddy floodwaters still own New Orleans four days after bursting through the levees that once protected it, and now they are toxic with fuel, battery acid, gas, garbage and raw sewage.

Health experts warn outbreaks of disease could wreak havoc in the days and weeks ahead.

The misery belied New Orleans' romantic and carefree image, and instead left it looking more like a Third World trouble spot in the midst of a major refugee crisis.

Thousands of people were finally evacuated from the city on Thursday night and taken to the Astrodome stadium in Houston, about 350 miles west, but it quickly filled up and police turned away busloads of the evacuees to other shelters.

Katrina forced hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and shut refineries along the Gulf Coast shut, sending gasoline prices at the pump soaring to new records of well over $3 a gallon in most parts of the country.

Bush urged Americans to conserve gasoline to help overcome the crisis. "Don't buy gas if you don't need it."

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:32:18 AM EDT
Tone down the hysteria folks. It's not accomplishing anything.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:33:11 AM EDT
I had the same argument with someone here at work yesterday that was wondering why more troops weren't being sent to New Orleans. I guess the right way to do this is to start sending in Armored Cav divisions, and plug the levees with Bradleys.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:35:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
People in here never cease to amaze me.

Send in infrantry troops to stop looters and rapists. What other fucking good ideas do you have?



+1 Especially when they all hate the .gov and want them out of civilian affairs until they need our help.
How many times have these folks screamed that the .mil should not be used against civilians?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:36:31 AM EDT
It is like a wise member on here said already. "you can't call a timeout in irag becase of NO"
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:37:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Enough with this bullshiite that we need every American fighting man in New Orleans.

New Orleans will soon take care of itself...and in the meanwhile, we have a real military situation over there.

Stuff that the 82nd Airborne was meant for! War!

Eric The(CivilianForcesForCivilianLawEnforcement)H­un




Excellent as usual ETH, don't be a stranger now
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:47:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:55:22 AM EDT by Voldermortist]
give my bolt rifle, my sig 226, and some other goodies from kifaru, one first aid kit, three day supply of food and a nice us optics st-10(erek, m40 knob, lit reticle) and give me a regular beginning officer's salary down there($30,000 a year?) and I'll take care of business.

basically give me the essential gear I need and a salary and I'll go wreck shop for those gangs. I got nothing better to do, except maybe finish my schooling

oh yeah and the job I do has to count as actual law enforcement experience for my job record.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:56:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 7:00:05 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:58:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385463

WTF? Iraqi Freedom is worth more than American blood? Send the 82nd to NO!



Umm they were slated to be deployed to Iraq for some time.

Man this whole the .gov has to do everything mentality among gun owners is disgusting. Its becuase of this attitude NOLA is the way it is right now.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:00:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Enough with this bullshiite that we need every American fighting man in New Orleans.

New Orleans will soon take care of itself...and in the meanwhile, we have a real military situation over there.

Stuff that the 82nd Airborne was meant for! War!

Eric The(CivilianForcesForCivilianLawEnforcement)H­un



By definition I believe part of NO is at war.

Where are the 'Little Birds' when we need them?

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:00:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 7:04:26 AM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
People in here never cease to amaze me.

Send in infrantry troops to stop looters and rapists. What other fucking good ideas do you have?





Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:06:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385463

WTF? Iraqi Freedom is worth more than American blood? Send the 82nd to NO!



Wonderful fucking idea, Einstein. Drop a bunch of light infantry into a flooded area...maybe they can carry survivors out on their fucking backs or put out chemical fires with their e-tools. Do you even PAUSE to think before you type this kind of idiocy?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:14:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
I hate to break it to you, but the global war on islamic-fascism is more important that some thugs running around the streets of NO.



exactly
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:20:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 7:21:15 AM EDT by sandblaster]
Some of the best firefighters around-CBTS

Originally Posted By Paul:
The 82nd airborne has fire fighters?

The military is meant to break things and kill people - it you want more of New Orleans broken or need some killing done then send them in. The are not a police force, they are trained killers. Misusing them as a police force get all kinds of bad things happening. The military does have civil affairs units which ought to be depoloyed.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:34:35 AM EDT
Lessee.. He is deploying 28,000 troops and 6 Navy ships, including an aircraft carrier, to work the disaster in the Gulf. How much more should he send?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:40:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
The 82nd airborne has fire fighters?

The military is meant to break things and kill people - it you want more of New Orleans broken or need some killing done then send them in. The are not a police force, they are trained killers. Misusing them as a police force get all kinds of bad things happening. The military does have civil affairs units which ought to be depoloyed.



Right on.
The military is a broadsword, not a scapel.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:46:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 7:48:19 AM EDT by Cape_hunter]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Paul:
The 82nd airborne has fire fighters?

The military is meant to break things and kill people - it you want more of New Orleans broken or need some killing done then send them in. The are not a police force, they are trained killers. Misusing them as a police force get all kinds of bad things happening. The military does have civil affairs units which ought to be depoloyed.



Right on.
The military is a broadsword, not a scapel.



+2

Bash the pres all you want. But could you at least wait until we have cleared the bodies from the NATURAL diasaster?

CH
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:09:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
The 82nd airborne has fire fighters?

The military is meant to break things and kill people - it you want more of New Orleans broken or need some killing done then send them in. The are not a police force, they are trained killers. Misusing them as a police force get all kinds of bad things happening. The military does have civil affairs units which ought to be depoloyed.



Air-fuckin'-borne! The 82d can be utilized more efficiently in other areas/places right now.


Also, if I am not mistaken, Posse Comitatus (sp?) prevents the 82nd from carrying ammo even if they were helping out in the Gulf coast.


I think you're right. I can't remember what hurricane it was that hit Florida back in the mid to late 90's, but they sent a bunch of Paratroopers down to help with the looting then. Didn't issue any ammo though. I hope the NG troops that they sent to NO has bullets this time.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:21:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Also, if I am not mistaken, Posse Comitatus (sp?) prevents the 82nd from carrying ammo even if they were helping out in the Gulf coast.




Got any sources you can cite to back up that assertion?

Next are you going to tell me you can't have a sharp bayonet because it violates the Geneva Convention?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:37:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Also, if I am not mistaken, Posse Comitatus (sp?) prevents the 82nd from carrying ammo even if they were helping out in the Gulf coast.




Wrong.

The President can waive Posse Comitatus in the case of emergencies like NO where there is lawlessness. Its not an option often used however as like it was mentioned before, the Army is designed to kill and break things, it should be a last resort.

The LA Gov should have come right out on the first day and said looters would be ruthlessly taken care. This should have been enforced from the get go, it doesn't take too many looters shot dead to get the message across.


Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:44:05 AM EDT
Well, we could call a time-out in Iraq, I'm sure they would understand, and bring all of our troops home to stop the looters in New Orleans. When the problem in NO is cleared up they could go back to Iraq and start where they left off.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:45:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
...The LA Gov should have come right out on the first day and said looters would be ruthlessly taken care. This should have been enforced from the get go, it doesn't take too many looters shot dead to get the message across.


Now, now eodtech. You just don't understand. You see, if the Guard had been killing looters from the moment they got there then this might have upset "diversity goals". Affirmative action still applies, even in N.O., meaning that in order to maintain "representation" every time the Guard shoots a hyphenated American looter they have to go find some oriental guy, a Mexican and some crippled dude and shoot them too.

You know. So there's no "discrimination".
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:15:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
give my bolt rifle, my sig 226, and some other goodies from kifaru, one first aid kit, three day supply of food and a nice us optics st-10(erek, m40 knob, lit reticle) and give me a regular beginning officer's salary down there($30,000 a year?) and I'll take care of business.

basically give me the essential gear I need and a salary and I'll go wreck shop for those gangs. I got nothing better to do, except maybe finish my schooling

oh yeah and the job I do has to count as actual law enforcement experience for my job record.


Uh, no offense? But .

Training? Hello? This isn't just a "Stick me in there and I'll shoot them all" kind of deal. You'd be in unfamiliar territory, against an unknown enemy (all you know is that there are some "people" running around with guns).




so? I got time for training....... it's gonna take what? 3 years to clean up that mess? I think I got time.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:24:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385463

WTF? Iraqi Freedom is worth more than American blood? Send the 82nd to NO!






Spoken like someone who has no clue as to what the fuck they are talking about.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:52:44 AM EDT
The 1927 Flood of the Mississippie left 700,000 people displaced and the river stayed at flood for


153 DAYS

They saved NO that time by dynamiting levees and destroying downstream areas.

There was no plan for something like this.

It's like war with Mother Nature. After the first shot is fired then the real strategy starts.

How do you stage or bring in supplies when there's still the pressure of people wanting to leave added to the impassability of the roads and the closure of airports and clogged waterways.

We haven't built a new dam in the US since the Teton Dam broke in 1976 (1976 was also the year of the last refinery built....let's see that was the Carter presidency). We still barely have control of the Mississippi River but at the cost of a lot of other problems upstream and down.

Mother Nature's too much for us from time to time and we'll just have to live with it.

Democrats can go on blaming others, it's really all they're good at anymore.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:57:10 AM EDT
One hurricane. Send in one Texas Ranger (and not the baseball kind).
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:00:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

New Orleans will soon take care of itself...



yeah, NO is doing such a great job on its own right now...
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:08:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 64FXR:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385463

WTF? Iraqi Freedom is worth more than American blood? Send the 82nd to NO!




Spoken like someone who has no clue as to what the fuck they are talking about.



I agree.

WTF are you thinking P_A_S?


we gave you more credit than that


Maybe it was a rhetorical statrement.................yea, that was it.

N.O. needs some NG representation to keep order, then food and water, then evac to shelters across the country.

sounds simple, and it is, but it will take a bit of time and we will get it done

Meanwhile, lets mash this haji problem once and for all
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:16:48 AM EDT
Just got done updating the slides of what is in or headed to NO to brief the 3 star (acting CDR). the volume is pretty large and most things have been in the works for days. Just from memory 13 ships, 7 E-2Cs, 16 USAF helos, 31 USMC helos and about the same number of USN and Army helos. A couple CODs and C-130s, 5 LCACs, 2 LCUs, 9-10 AAVs, and 2-3 LARCs. About 100 logistics support ground vehicles (not counting the amphibs). Plenty of others that I didn't bother to list like field surgical teams, disaster response teams, etc. I didn't work non-aviation Army units so I'm not sure what is headed in from that side.

That doesn't count LA guard and FEMA response - active .mil only. Those are only JFCOM forces - doesn't count anything that TRANSCOM, PACOM, SOUTHCOM, or SOCOM might be contributing (except for USAF helos - those are SOCOM).
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:17:28 AM EDT
Let's all just blame Bush, add fuel to the fire
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:22:52 AM EDT
Hey, wait a minute. Aren't there 25,000 people in the Astrodome that could be working on fixing the city? Why do they get to sit on their asses while we pay the NG and Army to rebuild? Why can't they pick up a shovel or a hammer and get to work? That way they'd have money to pay for their own needs instead of sucking like a vile leach on my tax dollars.

Why are people so useless and ineffectual? How can you not see right in front of your face what needs to be done? Pop up a tent, get some water off the NG truck and get to work, you lazy bags of shit.

G
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:33:09 AM EDT
first of all i know some of you our to immature to realize it but dam the 82nd airborne was also there for andrew for crowd control among other things so that is their mission in new orleans also they our deploying 2 brigades to iraq.


common sense the 82nd airborne is the presidents first choice for this kind of situation.

and alot of people need to stfu about bush he is doing what he can. he has SAID he will not micro manage what the governments down south our allready doing.


Link Posted: 9/2/2005 12:57:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:
Hey, wait a minute. Aren't there 25,000 people in the Astrodome that could be working on fixing the city? Why do they get to sit on their asses while we pay the NG and Army to rebuild? Why can't they pick up a shovel or a hammer and get to work? That way they'd have money to pay for their own needs instead of sucking like a vile leach on my tax dollars.

Why are people so useless and ineffectual? How can you not see right in front of your face what needs to be done? Pop up a tent, get some water off the NG truck and get to work, you lazy bags of shit.

G



dingdingding.....we have a winner!



first of all i know some of you our to immature to realize it but dam the 82nd airborne was also there for andrew for crowd control among other things


I was IN the 82d when they deployed for that.



common sense the 82nd airborne is the presidents first choice for this kind of situation.


I would think that the Reserves and to a lesser extent the NG would be the Prez's first choice, not a division that is trained to jump into a dangerous situation, en mass (also know as a MASS TAC), and destroy the enemy.

I also say that Bush is doing the best he can. Most, if not all of the blame for this (the aftermath AND the fact that the levies broke) lies with the upper echelon of leadership of NO, and the state of LA. They had been warned that the levies needed to be upgraded, but did nothing about it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 1:00:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By 64FXR:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385463

WTF? Iraqi Freedom is worth more than American blood? Send the 82nd to NO!




Spoken like someone who has no clue as to what the fuck they are talking about.



I agree.

WTF are you thinking P_A_S?


we gave you more credit than that


Maybe it was a rhetorical statrement.................yea, that was it.

N.O. needs some NG representation to keep order, then food and water, then evac to shelters across the country.

sounds simple, and it is, but it will take a bit of time and we will get it done

Meanwhile, lets mash this haji problem once and for all



You don't understand. This is just another Bush bash over imagined shortcomings.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:39:19 PM EDT
I have another question, what is the per turbine/hour cost on those choppers? Are we spending over $500 an hour to rescue people who were too stupid to leave the city a week ago? What about spare parts and maintenance costs? Ten billion is barely the start of this. We'll end up getting a bill for about 50 billion.

G
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