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Posted: 9/8/2005 2:24:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 4:28:43 PM EDT by dablues]
not hotlinked -- need to be registered user:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/national/nationalspecial/08cnd-storm.html?hp&ex=
1126238400&en=efe0a58b7fc8e12c&ei=5094&partner=homepage


September 8, 2005
New Orleans Begins Confiscating Firearms as Water Recedes
By ALEX BERENSON and TIMOTHY WILLIAMS

NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 8 - Waters were receding across this flood-beaten city today as police officers began confiscating weapons, including legally registered firearms, from civilians in preparation for a mass forced evacuation of the residents still living here.

No civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns, or other firearms, said P. Edwin Compass, the superintendent of police. "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons," he said.

But that order apparently does not apply to the hundreds of security guards whom businesses and some wealthy individuals have hired to protect their property. The guards, who are civilians working for private security firms like Blackwater, are openly carrying M-16's and other assault rifles. Mr. Compass said he was aware of the private guards, but that the police had no plans to make them give up their weapons.

Nearly two weeks after the floods began, New Orleans has turned into an armed camp, patrolled by thousands of local, state, and federal law enforcement officers, as well as National Guard troops and active-duty soldiers. While armed looters roamed unchecked last week, the city is now calm. No arrests were made on Wednesday night or this morning, and police received only 10 calls for service, a police spokesman said.
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Many neighborhoods in the northern half of New Orleans remain under 10 feet of water, and Mr. Compass said today that the city's plans for a forced evacuation remain in effect because of the danger of disease and fires.

Mr. Compass said he could not disclose when New Orleans residents might be forced to leave en masse, but other police officers and law enforcement officials said the city planned to start as early as tonight.

The city's Police Department and federal law enforcement officers from agencies like the United States Marshals Service will lead the evacuation, Mr. Compass said. Officers will search houses in both dry and flooded neighborhoods, and no one will be allowed to stay, he said.

Many of the residents still in the city said they did not understand why the city remained intent on forcing them out.

"I know the risks," said Renee de Pontchieux, as she sat on a stool outside Kajun's Pub in the working-class Bywater neighborhood east of downtown. "We used to think we lived in America - now we're not so sure. Why should we allow this government to chase us out and allow people from outside to rebuild our homes? We want to rebuild our homes."

But Ms. De Pontchieux said she was resigned to being evacuated if the police insisted. "It would be foolish" to fight, she said.
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Among the authorities, though, some confusion lingered about how a widespread evacuation by force would work, and how much support it would get at the federal and state level. Mayor Nagin told the police and the military on Tuesday to remove all residents for their own safety, and on Wednesday, Mr. Compass said state laws gave the mayor the authority to declare martial law and order the evacuations.

"There's a martial law declaration in place that gives us legal authority for mandatory evacuations," Mr. Compass said. "We'll use the minimum amount of force necessary."

But because the New Orleans Police Department has only about 1,000 working officers, the city is largely in the hands of National Guard troops and active-duty soldiers.

State officials said Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco could tell the Guard to carry out the forced removals, but they stopped short of a commitment to do so. In Washington, Lt. Gen. Joseph R. Inge, deputy commander of the United States Northern Command, said regular troops "would not be used" in any forced evacuation.

The state disaster law does not supersede either the state or federal Constitutions, said Kenneth M. Murchison, a law professor at Louisiana State University. But even so, Mr. Nagin's decision could be a smart strategy that does not violate fundamental rights, Professor Murchison said.


a smart strategy that does not violate fundamental rights


huh?

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:27:23 PM EDT

No civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry


Well, that right there is reason to leave.

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:28:19 PM EDT
Well, for all the people that mock those of us who talk about firearm confiscation in America I guess the jig is up.

Of course, somehow this won't count because it's an "emergency" (i.e. when you need guns the most) so it'll all be ok. Nothing to worry about, nothing to see here.

BAHHHHHHH!!! BAHHHHHHHHH!!!

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:30:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:30:29 PM EDT
So are they confiscating firearms from those that open carry in public, or from people in their own homes?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:36:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So are they confiscating firearms from those that open carry in public, or from people in their own homes?



It sounds like if it's a firearm, and it's not attached to a soldier/LEO/contractor, it gets confiscated.


Nah, they wouldn't do that.......would they?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:38:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 4:31:42 PM EDT by dablues]

I refuse to read anything that I have to scroll sideways to see.


Fits ok on my monitor. I'm running 1024x768 screen resolution at 96dpi resolution. 16 pixel font for serif type and 13 pixel for monospaced. I have seen posts that sprawl across two screen widths but never understood why that happens.

Readability is important, so if you know why, inquiring minds would like to know!


Tech note-- fixed it by breaking the URL into two lines. The web page was making a text box big enough to fit the longest unbroken string, and stretching everything else as wide in the process.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:39:45 PM EDT


Mr. Compass said state laws gave the mayor the authority to declare martial law and order the evacuations.




is this true?


I thought martail law gave the military comander power.. not the mayor....

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:41:41 PM EDT
It begins...
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:42:15 PM EDT
Whats the big deal. I'm sure they will give them back when they deem it safe again.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:42:19 PM EDT

Mr. Compass said state laws gave the mayor the authority to declare martial law and order the evacuations.


Where the hell are they getting this from. I just searched LA's laws and found nothing about martial law.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:42:37 PM EDT
So their are military contractors in NO carrying M-16s NOT associated with the Pentagon?

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:43:58 PM EDT
Just watched this on ABC News, guns being taken by force by NOPD and Guard units. Folks could stay in their dry houses but ALL weapons are being confiscated. I can't fucking believe it! Jeff
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:45:02 PM EDT

"Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,"


He's going to try to disarm the 82nd Airborne that's in NO? That should be fun to watch.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:46:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By G-lock:
Just watched this on ABC News, guns being taken by force by NOPD and Guard units. Folks could stay in their dry houses but ALL weapons are being confiscated. I can't fucking believe it! Jeff

I can.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:46:37 PM EDT
Do not forget this.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:49:02 PM EDT
People know what to do , i just hope they have the balls to it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:49:59 PM EDT
They're confiscating the guns because the people are doing a better job defending their lives and property with their own guns. That makes the incompetent 'Nawlins PD look bad so they have to disarm the population to make themselves look better.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:50:37 PM EDT
If you agree to leave, are you allowed to take your firearm(s) with you, or are all firearms being taken for "safekeeping"?

Seems to me they'd insist you take them with you, so as to avoid any chance of them getting in the wrong hands. But somehow I suspect that's not the case.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:50:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

"Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,"


He's going to try to disarm the 82nd Airborne that's in NO? That should be fun to watch.





By the way....
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:51:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So are they confiscating firearms from those that open carry in public, or from people in their own homes?

(Rant ON) the news just showed them entering homes and confisacting wepons at this point i would be pissed someone needs to point out thet inaliable rights stuff and bring a major cival right suite against them , as one group said they were scared of our guns because they were bigger its crap that they enter onto your property and feel they can do this with impunity this is definitly what our fore fathers were aginst ! (Rant off)
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:51:30 PM EDT
I don't want to start another thread about Katrina so I'll ask my question here:

HOW can this natural disaster be blamed on Bush?

I have several co-workers (Republican, Democrat and everything in between) who gathered around the break room this morning for a meeting to talk about donating to the Red Cross. Anyway, a majority of people in there were saying, "It's Bush's fault", "Bush should do more.", "Bush's government is the cause of the starvation..."

I asked several people to elaborate, but they all basically know where my loyalty lies. One of my Republican friends would only say that Bush cut the costs for the levee and didn't send help down fast enough. Her friend, a Canadian, was in the first rescue crew to arrive on the scene according to her.

Anyway, I'm not trying to stir up something ... I just want to know where these people get off saying that Bush is the blame for EVERYTHING. Gas prices? Bush. Hurricanes? Bush. I just want someone to explain to me how exactly Bush's actions are being questioned ... I mean, I truly don't understand. Maybe I haven't spent enough time watching the media try to crucify him ... mostly, I've just been volunteering at the evacuee camp and watching the clean up operations on t.v. ..

I'm missing something.

Tell me.

Please.

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:52:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 2:52:45 PM EDT by MK4Mod0]
This is a perfect example of how the SUPREME COURT has FAILED MISERABLEY in it's Constitutional Authority to act as a check and balance for the AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:52:34 PM EDT
What are the legal limits on use of force in this situation on their end?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:53:20 PM EDT
ouch.

And thats all I'll say.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:53:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By schornstinefager:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So are they confiscating firearms from those that open carry in public, or from people in their own homes?

(Rant ON) the news just showed them entering homes and confisacting wepons...



That's seriously fucked up. I wonder if their strategy is by disarming the bugged in holdouts they will be less likely to stay? or just less likely to offer armed resitance next week when they make them leave by force.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:55:07 PM EDT
All it will take is on person to shoot back and that will stop it.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:55:51 PM EDT
What constitutes a private armed contractor, and why can't a citizen be one?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:55:55 PM EDT
You know, I was kind of feeling guilty about spending money I really don't have on a new rifle today, but this makes it soooooooooooooo worthwhile.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:56:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By schornstinefager:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So are they confiscating firearms from those that open carry in public, or from people in their own homes?

(Rant ON) the news just showed them entering homes and confisacting wepons...



That's seriously fucked up. I wonder if their strategy is by disarming the bugged in holdouts they will be less likely to stay? or just less likely to offer armed resitance next week when they make them leave by force.



So when they remove them by force they will be sending them to the concentration camps, right? Er...I mean stadiums.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:56:46 PM EDT
Not surprised. Leftist city with leftist elected leaders and leftist wards of the state as its residents. What else do you expect.

Good luck trying this shit in Texas or North Carolina.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:57:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
All it will take is on person to shoot back and that will stop it.

CRC



Forced entry is allowed under martial law? The right to be secure in ones person and property?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:58:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 3:03:37 PM EDT by Da_Bunny]
OK, that's going too far. However, people had plenty of warning that something was up. The government was pretty up front about it.

ETA: Another good example of reasons to take responsibility for your own survival and stay ahead of the authorities. When they call for evacuation, evacuate. Either leave on your own terms, or leave on theirs. But leave.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:59:52 PM EDT
That makes me sick.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:00:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By qualityhardware:
Not surprised. Leftist city with leftist elected leaders and leftist wards of the state as its residents. What else do you expect.

Good luck trying this shit in Texas or North Carolina.



So someone has to kill a Cop or National Guard member for the public to start having a problem with this? These orders should not be followed. Good luck getting the guns back to those in N.O.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:00:41 PM EDT
WTF?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:01:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By qualityhardware:
Not surprised. Leftist city with leftist elected leaders and leftist wards of the state as its residents. What else do you expect.

Good luck trying this shit in Texas or North Carolina.



With all due respect and as much as I want to agree with you, I would not take that bet.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:03:10 PM EDT
A little bit of precedent is a dangerous thing.
This my friends, I fear is a harbigner of things to come.

"state of emergency"
"forced relocations"
"displaced persons camps"
"door to door "evacuations" coupled with firearms confiscation"

Look for the first 3 terms, and the last will surely follow.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:03:33 PM EDT
and once again we'll all sit by, voicing our outrage with no action.

i'll be first to admit that i'm included.

what can be done?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:03:42 PM EDT
I would have a hard time following those orders if I was LEO or Nat Guard, but I'm sure most will do what they are told (to keep the paychecks coming). Sad fucking day for Amerika.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:03:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 3:04:19 PM EDT by Voldermortist]
I hope every single law enforcement officer or military personnel who attempts to confiscated a weapon from a law abiding citizen over there is immediately killed.


They would truly deserve it.

that's all I have to say.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:04:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 3:07:56 PM EDT by schornstinefager]
if i remeber history right we have the right to a well armed milita............what is a armed neihbor hood ?and i sorry but there is always a jerk at the top not the individuals fault the one who gave the order should be held accountable leagly and finacaly
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:05:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TKoProductions:
and once again we'll all sit by, voicing our outrage with no action.

i'll be first to admit that i'm included.

what can be done?



Rest assured the NRA will be no help.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:06:14 PM EDT
GWB is a pro gun president and would never stand for such a thing.

Actually I wonder wht the police/NG response to gun secured in a safe would be?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:06:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By TKoProductions:
and once again we'll all sit by, voicing our outrage with no action.

i'll be first to admit that i'm included.

what can be done?



Rest assured the NRA will be no help.



well for one you could mobilize a group of people to go over there and shoot back....
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:06:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
GWB is a pro gun president and would never stand for such a thing.

Actually I wonder wht the police/NG response to gun secured in a safe would be?

Tell them you forgot the combination.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:07:00 PM EDT
If true, this is going to put people in an impossible position. I don't know what I would do. I'd feel like a bad American doing by taking either of the two major choices. Fuck the politicians making this happen. If you are religious pray for them, poor cops, poor national guardsmen, and poorest of all, freedom loving people of New Orleans.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:07:18 PM EDT
how do they know where and what to confiscate?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:07:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
OK, that's going too far. However, people had plenty of warning that something was up. The government was pretty up front about it.

ETA: Another good example of reasons to take responsibility for your own survival and stay ahead of the authorities. When they call for evacuation, evacuate. .



Why leave if your home, you single biggest investment, is undamaged?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:08:03 PM EDT
The gun confiscation of the Nazis. The bureaucratic efficiency of Mussolini. What a complete cluster.

As far as blame, who had heavy lift helicopters at their disposal? That is the only way the spillover and subsequent breech of the levee could have been stopped once it started. Who would have had the resources to execute an emergency levee/dam repair? Only those with heavy lift helicopters.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 3:08:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
I would have a hard time following those orders if I was LEO or Nat Guard, but I'm sure most will do what they are told (to keep the paychecks coming). Sad fucking day for Amerika.



Alot of these fucks are "volunteers" from other states. Hope somebody start shooting. Fuck th N.G. these orders should not be followed.
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