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Posted: 4/21/2016 9:08:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 9:10:22 AM EDT by Medicfrost]
http://newjersey.news12.com/news/voters-reject-tax-increase-police-department-to-disband-1.11711174?pts=446879

LAKE COMO - A police department in a small New Jersey town must disband after voters rejected a budget that would have raised their property taxes by more than 22 percent.

Lake Como voters on Tuesday overwhelmingly rejected the referendum that exceeded the state's 2 percent tax cap. It would have cost about $2.4 million to fund the 10-member police department, costing the typical taxpayer about $700 more in municipal taxes.

The town will enter into a contract with neighboring Belmar to provide police services for about $914,000.

Mayor Brian Wilton tells the Asbury Park Press the police department would routinely go over its budget and the council had to take money from other places, including the surplus, to make up the difference.

Lake Como's business area is about a block long.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:19:04 AM EDT
Why stop at the police dept? Why don't they do away with the articles of incorporation while they are at it. Save the taxpayers some more money.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:20:15 AM EDT
So the Russian Mafia moves in and sets up shop and has their own version of a "police" enforcers..
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:22:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 9:23:36 AM EDT by runcible]
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:28:17 AM EDT
Population 1,726. Around here that would be served by a town marshal with the Sheriff's Department for back up, not 10 cops.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:30:28 AM EDT
They can get jobs pumping gas.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:31:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.
View Quote


It's a shore town near some of the busiest spots in the summer. They'll miss it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:39:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 9:43:02 AM EDT by runcible]
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Originally Posted By RayFromJersey:


It's a shore town near some of the busiest spots in the summer. They'll miss it.
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Originally Posted By RayFromJersey:
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.


It's a shore town near some of the busiest spots in the summer. They'll miss it.

So, two or three cops is what makes the difference between "idyllic seaside vacation spot" and "Thunderdome"?

I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing that. (And so did the residents of the town, apparently.)
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:40:53 AM EDT
It's a start.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:45:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 9:47:08 AM EDT by Special-K]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.
View Quote


A local town around here did just that - disbanded their police department and contracted with the Sheriff's Dept. Also maybe ten guys, half of them were part time. It hasn't worked out well for them and now, a couple years later, they are extremely dissatisfied with how it's turned out.




-K
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:48:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RayFromJersey:


It's a shore town near some of the busiest spots in the summer. They'll miss it.
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Originally Posted By RayFromJersey:
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.


It's a shore town near some of the busiest spots in the summer. They'll miss it.


They will miss it a lot. I've worked for a small dept like that before. Prepare for longer response times or no response at all. And way less service or investigations. But wtf do I know? They can do without yes, some will regret it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:50:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:53:46 AM EDT
The state disbanded the Sussex Police department in 1993. Well, it technically wasn't a policed department. More like a heavily armed private security force. Oh yeah, they were running drugs too. The town hasn't had police since and is frequently patrolled by the New Jersey State Police.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:56:06 AM EDT
Lots of small cities contract out like this.

They're saving $1.5 million.

Tail was wagging the dog maybe.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:56:27 AM EDT
Wish my town would do that.

2000 people, mostly Mennonite. Zero bars.

The only crimes in the police blotter are shoplifting, smashed mailboxes and domestic violence, don't see the PD stopping those anytime soon.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:58:56 AM EDT
They made the right decision. No way would I vote in a 22% tax increase.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:59:23 AM EDT
We've had this happen in the rural parts of northern Michigan and it is really missed. There are parts of the state that have no police response at all at night.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:00:49 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fig:


They will miss it a lot. I've worked for a small dept like that before. Prepare for longer response times or no response at all. And way less service or investigations. But wtf do I know? They can do without yes, some will regret it.
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Originally Posted By Fig:
Originally Posted By RayFromJersey:
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.


It's a shore town near some of the busiest spots in the summer. They'll miss it.


They will miss it a lot. I've worked for a small dept like that before. Prepare for longer response times or no response at all. And way less service or investigations. But wtf do I know? They can do without yes, some will regret it.

What kind of "investigations" was a 10-man department doing?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:04:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 10:06:12 AM EDT by semiautomatic]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By runcible:

What kind of "investigations" was a 10-man department doing?
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Originally Posted By runcible:
Originally Posted By Fig:
Originally Posted By RayFromJersey:
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.


It's a shore town near some of the busiest spots in the summer. They'll miss it.


They will miss it a lot. I've worked for a small dept like that before. Prepare for longer response times or no response at all. And way less service or investigations. But wtf do I know? They can do without yes, some will regret it.

What kind of "investigations" was a 10-man department doing?




Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:04:54 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By runcible:

What kind of "investigations" was a 10-man department doing?
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Originally Posted By runcible:
Originally Posted By Fig:
Originally Posted By RayFromJersey:
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.


It's a shore town near some of the busiest spots in the summer. They'll miss it.


They will miss it a lot. I've worked for a small dept like that before. Prepare for longer response times or no response at all. And way less service or investigations. But wtf do I know? They can do without yes, some will regret it.

What kind of "investigations" was a 10-man department doing?

They could start by investigating why it costs $240 fucking grand per cop per year.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:07:29 AM EDT
How come emergency services are always the first cut, when it comes to cutting cost?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:09:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Population 1,726. Around here that would be served by a town marshal with the Sheriff's Department for back up, not 10 cops.
View Quote



One cop per 170 residents. I think the national average is about one per thousand, maybe a bit less. But yeah, horribly overstaffed. See it in Iowa on occasion. Starts out as a one man department. Gradually add one or two officers due to a compliant city council or more often a good old boy network. In a few years you have officers tripping over themselves trying to find something to do.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:09:25 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stlkid:
How come emergency services are always the first cut, when it comes to cutting cost?
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Scare tactic. No more police sounds worse than no more zoo or public park.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:09:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stlkid:
How come emergency services are always the first cut, when it comes to cutting cost?
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probably because they are 90% of a city budget.

Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:14:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stlkid:
How come emergency services are always the first cut, when it comes to cutting cost?
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Because the reality is they are superfluous service. Losses by theft and fire are covered more efficiently by insurance. The prevention measures do not reduce crime nor fire loss in measures greater than their cost. Fire service becomes cost effective by preventing the spread of fire to multiple structures or preventing consumption of entire very large structures.

People increase their personal and property security and keep effective extinguishers around and those services are virtually never needed by residents.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:14:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 10:20:09 AM EDT by AeroE]
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:16:02 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AeroE:


Response to what?

How many crises have been prevented because there was no police response? The emergencies that have already occurred can't be averted, all the police can do is write a report, and that applies everywhere.

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Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By ca122574:
We've had this happen in the rural parts of northern Michigan and it is really missed. There are parts of the state that have no police response at all at night.


Response to what?

How many crises have been prevented because there was no police response? The emergencies that have already occurred can't be averted, all the police can do is write a report, and that applies everywhere.



But what about safer feels?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:16:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 10:33:30 AM EDT by Bullseye100]
There is one thing that a lot of folks across the country might not understand. NJ is fucked up for a lot of reasons. One of them being our outrageously high taxes. We have local, county and state levels of EVERYTHING, including politicians, police, social services, court houses. I could go on all day but you get the point. I live in a 22 square mile township that has 1 police department, about 125 cops. Within that township is about 6 or 7 towns, all with there own fire departments. That's a shitload of equipment and expense.

The next town over, where I grew up, is about 2 square miles and so is the town next to that. All of the little towns in NJ have all of these "services". Police chiefs are making $130k and up. My chief is $162,588 with detectives making $112,000. Now add in the County Sheriff's office. They don't go out on calls like the local cops do. They mostly serve court papers and transport criminals to the county jail for the local departments. We have too many hand in the pot and we aren't getting much for it.

ETA: I almost forgot about our Sate Police. Other than guarding Governor Crispy Creme and making guns almost impossible to own, they seem to be glorified ticket writers. They patrol the state highways.

Even when it snows here a local plow will drive on a state or county road and not lower the plow to clear the snow. They only plow local roads. Same goes for the county and state plows. Each group takes care of their own shit and doesn't care about anything they are not responsible for.

Now you know why we are FUCKED here.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:16:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.
View Quote


One of my previous departments we had 10 officers. Shifts overlapped so there were two officers on during "busy" times but mostly you were by yourself. It was like Mayberry, the residents liked that they knew all the officers by name and would see them in their neighborhoods frequently. They kept approving levies because to them the quick service they got was better than if they contracted out with the sheriffs department to answer calls. However, many small departments around here have been disbanded and the sheriffs offices have absorbed the jurisdiction. That's one of the reasons I left was for job stability. It's cheaper to pay another department to answer your calls than to pay salaries, benefits, equipment, and all other costs with small departments.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:18:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 10:23:06 AM EDT by Balista]
Of the $3.3 million budget projected for 2016, roughly $1.4 million was set aside for police salaries alone. That figure swells to around $1.9 million when factoring in social security, pension payments, overtime and operating costs.
View Quote


The Lake Como Police Department is comprised of nine officers and the chief
View Quote


$1.9 million / 10 officers = $190,000 per officer cost.

Population of town? 1700 people. Or one cop for every 170 people.


In the meantime, Wilton is doing what he can to save the police force, but the numbers aren't lining up, he said.

"This budget is bare bones," he said. "We're still speaking with our PBA to see if there's any solution, but the numbers are so staggering, that it's not realistic."
View Quote


Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:21:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 11:07:21 AM EDT by FlyNavy75]
FBHO
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:21:37 AM EDT
22% increase? Yeah I vote that shit down too. Enough fucking taxes.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:22:31 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Balista:




$1.9 million / 10 officers = $190,000 per officer cost. Population of town? 1600 people.




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Originally Posted By Balista:
Of the $3.3 million budget projected for 2016, roughly $1.4 million was set aside for police salaries alone. That figure swells to around $1.9 million when factoring in social security, pension payments, overtime and operating costs.


The Lake Como Police Department is comprised of nine officers and the chief


$1.9 million / 10 officers = $190,000 per officer cost. Population of town? 1600 people.


In the meantime, Wilton is doing what he can to save the police force, but the numbers aren't lining up, he said.

"This budget is bare bones," he said. "We're still speaking with our PBA to see if there's any solution, but the numbers are so staggering, that it's not realistic."





And now the story comes out. 140k is high even for New Jersey.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:52:59 AM EDT
22% property tax hike.

I would have voted no on that too.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:55:33 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.
View Quote


My guess would be that the only policing they did was running 24/7 speed traps at the edge of town. That's how little keystone cop operations around here operate in towns like that. If that's the case their disbanding is probably cause for local celebration.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:57:42 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Special-K:



A local town around here did just that - disbanded their police department and contracted with the Sheriff's Dept. Also maybe ten guys, half of them were part time. It hasn't worked out well for them and now, a couple years later, they are extremely dissatisfied with how it's turned out.








-K
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Originally Posted By Special-K:
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.



A local town around here did just that - disbanded their police department and contracted with the Sheriff's Dept. Also maybe ten guys, half of them were part time. It hasn't worked out well for them and now, a couple years later, they are extremely dissatisfied with how it's turned out.








-K


The village I work in contracts the Sheriff's Dept for LE and it works very well. Population is about 12,000 give or take.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:03:38 AM EDT
That's a good start. More towns and cities need to start trimming over staffed and over budgeted police departments.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:05:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By USCG_CPO:
That's a good start. More towns and cities need to start trimming over staffed and over budgeted police departments.
View Quote


This. And not just cops... other government services too.

Way too many little "personal empires" being built at taxpayer expense.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:07:04 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stlkid:
How come emergency services are always the first cut, when it comes to cutting cost?
View Quote
Because we should really be focusing on teaching folks above all things, to be as self reliant as possible.

When I become president everyone gets a suppressed 22, a small fire truck, a medic kit and a backhoe.


Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:08:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.
View Quote

That's probably right.

I've personally witnessed the before and after of two similar towns that went through the same thing. Nobody noticed the difference - life carried on.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:10:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 11:11:28 AM EDT by cyborg543]
NJ has huge property taxes because every single town in the state is incorporated and has its own school district, police, fire.

Our government has completely run amok on every level.



Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:11:42 AM EDT
Taxation is theft
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:15:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 11:17:03 AM EDT by shaggy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:


This. And not just cops... other government services too.

Way too many little "personal empires" being built at taxpayer expense.
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By USCG_CPO:
That's a good start. More towns and cities need to start trimming over staffed and over budgeted police departments.


This. And not just cops... other government services too.

Way too many little "personal empires" being built at taxpayer expense.


This. My town has no police department; we're covered by a state police barracks thats 30 minutes away.

Fire department is volunteer.

Schools are the biggest public expense here.

People here do fine. We just buy guns and look out for our neighbors.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:18:54 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.
View Quote


Sounds about right ... our department runs 12's and the schedules are set up for two week cycles - that's four different shifts - so with 2 per, 8 total. Add a "detective" or LT and a Chief - there's your 10. Not sure if they're counting admin/dispatch in that headcount either.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:24:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By chase45:
Taxation is theft
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And legislation is, by definition, coercion.

Government is the "antibiotic" of civilization.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:37:06 AM EDT
As a matter of comparison, consider my town:

Population: 5,200

38 employees:
1 Police Chief
1 Lieutenant
1 Sergeant
8 Full-Time Patrol/Court Security
12 Part-time Patrol/Court Security
1 School Resource Officer
1 Records Clerk
4 Full-time Dispatchers
7 Part-time Dispatchers
1 Parking Enforcement Officer (meter maid)
1 Part-time Crossing Guard

There are 7 marked patrol cars and one unmarked car.

Budget: ~$2.4 million.

Personnel: $1,999,760
Operations: $258,935
Contracts: $19,525
Capital: $112,000
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:39:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 11:39:40 AM EDT by DeltaElite777]
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Originally Posted By Subnet:
As a matter of comparison, consider my town:

Population: 5,200


1 Parking Enforcement Officer (meter maid)

View Quote


You have parking meters and a dedicated enforcement officer in a town of 5,200 fucking people?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:41:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:


You have parking meters and a dedicated enforcement officer in a town of 5,200 fucking people?
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Subnet:
As a matter of comparison, consider my town:

Population: 5,200


1 Parking Enforcement Officer (meter maid)



You have parking meters and a dedicated enforcement officer in a town of 5,200 fucking people?

Yep. It's for the town center, mostly. We're the county seat, and quite the idyllic setting. I basically live in a Norman Rockwell painting.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:43:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 11:45:03 AM EDT by COCKEDANDGLOCKED]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Special-K:

A local town around here did just that - disbanded their police department and contracted with the Sheriff's Dept. Also maybe ten guys, half of them were part time. It hasn't worked out well for them and now, a couple years later, they are extremely dissatisfied with how it's turned out.

-K
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Originally Posted By Special-K:
Originally Posted By runcible:
A 10 member department? How many were on the street at any given time? Two?

Sounds like the department was superfluous and no one will miss it.

A local town around here did just that - disbanded their police department and contracted with the Sheriff's Dept. Also maybe ten guys, half of them were part time. It hasn't worked out well for them and now, a couple years later, they are extremely dissatisfied with how it's turned out.

-K
This is usually the case. Sheriffs take over and promise the city council the world, then don't deliver. There are definitely perks to having a dedicated municipal agency that is intimate with the community she deserves.



Having said that, I wouldn't vote for a 22% tax increase either.


Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:44:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 11:47:26 AM EDT by WinstonSmith]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 338winmag:
Why stop at the police dept? Why don't they do away with the articles of incorporation while they are at it. Save the taxpayers some more money.
View Quote


It'd make sense. "Lake Como" is only a municipality because one end of Belmar got sick of being lumped in with the beach bennies. The cost of duplicating services was bound to provoke some sticker shock at some point, it's only shell games and creative accounting that got them this far.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:46:35 AM EDT
Another reason why there's a 2nd Amendment

Can't afford to fund someone to protect you? Do it yourself

But since the 2nd doesn't apply there, they've screwed themselves
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