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Posted: 8/9/2006 11:18:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 11:18:54 AM EDT by armoredsaint]
I just installed new dustless brake pads on my car and it squeals now, it's annoying as hell, it only does it at low speeds. The rotors only have 1000 miles on it, so it's still new, I did forget to score/sand the rotors this time around, would that make a difference? I have changed alot of brake pads on my personal cars, this squeal is a first for me, I even used the anti-squeal crap you put on the backing plate of the pads.

I even went out to bed the pads in by jamming on the brakes several times, but nothing. Help!
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:20:11 AM EDT
Breaks are over rated. I cut my break lines and I get places a lot faster now.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:21:18 AM EDT
Welcome to the world of "dustless" brake pads. The only solution is to turn the rotors and put on conventional pads.

"Jamming" the brakes is not how to bed new brakes. All you might have done was build up a nice, hard glaze on the pad faces and/or the rotors.

Why did you replace the pads if the rotors only have 1000 miles?
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:22:40 AM EDT
I find a nice squirt of WD40 between the rotor and the pads seems to quite things down
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:22:55 AM EDT
agreed, dustless just makes it squeel alot more.

plus i like Orginal pads.. good braking power. i dont sacrifice brakign power for dust.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:27:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 11:27:52 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:31:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Welcome to the world of "dustless" brake pads. The only solution is to turn the rotors and put on conventional pads.

"Jamming" the brakes is not how to bed new brakes. All you might have done was build up a nice, hard glaze on the pad faces and/or the rotors.

Why did you replace the pads if the rotors only have 1000 miles?


Big +1 to the world of dustless brake pads.

Who manufacturered the pads that you installed?

SBG
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:34:02 AM EDT
Ettore Bugatti was once criticized because one of his early race cars (Type 13 or derivative, maybe) had brakes only at the rear, and were generally considered to be woefully inadequate at slowing, let alone stopping, the car.

Bugatti replied, "I build racing cars to go, not to stop."
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:44:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Welcome to the world of "dustless" brake pads. The only solution is to turn the rotors and put on conventional pads.

"Jamming" the brakes is not how to bed new brakes. All you might have done was build up a nice, hard glaze on the pad faces and/or the rotors.

Why did you replace the pads if the rotors only have 1000 miles?


the reason for the new pads is that BMW's are notoriously bad for a lot of brake dust, i wanted to try something new, guess it is not working out!
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:45:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Welcome to the world of "dustless" brake pads. The only solution is to turn the rotors and put on conventional pads.

"Jamming" the brakes is not how to bed new brakes. All you might have done was build up a nice, hard glaze on the pad faces and/or the rotors.

Why did you replace the pads if the rotors only have 1000 miles?


Big +1 to the world of dustless brake pads.

Who manufacturered the pads that you installed?

SBG


the brand is Rotex from brakeworld.com, highly recommended by other BMW forum members, but they don't have the squealing issue.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:48:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Welcome to the world of "dustless" brake pads. The only solution is to turn the rotors and put on conventional pads.

"Jamming" the brakes is not how to bed new brakes. All you might have done was build up a nice, hard glaze on the pad faces and/or the rotors.

Why did you replace the pads if the rotors only have 1000 miles?


the reason for the new pads is that BMW's are notoriously bad for a lot of brake dust, i wanted to try something new, guess it is not working out!


so are mercedes.. my wheels would be black by the end of the week. i installed porterfield pads on my car... no good super suqeel braking is not as good as oem..so i gave up and upgraded to bigger brakes. less wear and cooler
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:51:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
the reason for the new pads is that BMW's are notoriously bad for a lot of brake dust, i wanted to try something new, guess it is not working out!
BMW = Black Mess on Wheels.

Your car was designed to have fairly soft pads that are relatively large. The pads generate heat pretty quick and provide great stopping power, but degrade noticeably. The "dustless" pads are a comparatively hard material, which can work on cars like Honda Civics that have smaller calipers and rotor diameters. It is tough to get enough heat into the brakes during normal driving to keep the pads from squealing, though. Same holds true for "racing" pads on street cars. All the Ricky Racers put them on their "Fast and Bi-Curious" ricers, but they really do not work very well at all.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:56:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 11:56:42 AM EDT by warlord]
I find that Raybestos Quiet Stop works pretty good, ie really quiet. The Only problem is that it only lasts about 15,000 miles of city driving.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 12:15:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 12:18:02 PM EDT by wildearp]

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
I just installed new dustless brake pads on my car and it squeals now, it's annoying as hell, it only does it at low speeds. The rotors only have 1000 miles on it, so it's still new, I did forget to score/sand the rotors this time around, would that make a difference? I have changed alot of brake pads on my personal cars, this squeal is a first for me, I even used the anti-squeal crap you put on the backing plate of the pads.

I even went out to bed the pads in by jamming on the brakes several times, but nothing. Help!


Anti-squeal crap won't help. If you have high spots on your new pads, they might have glazed over and are causing a squeal. If this generated a lot of heat, your pads might squeal for their entire life. That sucks.

You do NOT 'bed' the pads with heavy brake applications. You are supposed to do light braking action followed by driving and a cooling process and repeat. This allows the surfaces to mate and match without generating hot spots. Guess what you did?

You might be able to radius a leading and trailing edge on your brakes with a sander, along with adding a slot, and then resurface the pad with a flat sand paper on a flat surface and then start the process of breaking in properly.

Probably not.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 1:10:14 PM EDT
the reason why i did the bedding the brake pads was from this article that sells alot of brakes for BMW's...who knows

www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 5:33:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Welcome to the world of "dustless" brake pads. The only solution is to turn the rotors and put on conventional pads.

"Jamming" the brakes is not how to bed new brakes. All you might have done was build up a nice, hard glaze on the pad faces and/or the rotors.

Why did you replace the pads if the rotors only have 1000 miles?


the reason for the new pads is that BMW's are notoriously bad for a lot of brake dust, i wanted to try something new, guess it is not working out!


BMWs are also notorious for having awesome brakes! The dust is a fact of life if you want brakes that don't suck.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 5:37:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Ettore Bugatti was once criticized because one of his early race cars (Type 13 or derivative, maybe) had brakes only at the rear, and were generally considered to be woefully inadequate at slowing, let alone stopping, the car.

Bugatti replied, "I build racing cars to go, not to stop."


If Bugatti said that, he is an idiot.
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 9:19:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2006 9:20:16 PM EDT by trwoprod]

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
the reason why i did the bedding the brake pads was from this article that sells alot of brakes for BMW's...who knows

www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm


That article is an amazing load or horseshit. This is how you break in pads (I grew up racing cars, restore MBs, and used to be able to rebuild 1911 engines in my sleep -- cars and gardening are my two hobbies):

1. Put a strip of masking tape on your steering wheel at the top and write "green brakes" on it with a marker. You WILL forget otherwise.

2. Find a flat straight stretch of road. Accelerate to 60 mpg or so, and drag the car back to zero a few times to warm up the brakes. Turn around and do it again. Gently.

3. Accelerate to 60 mph and slow down to 10 mph a few times, firmly but NOT slamming on the brakes by any stretch of the imagination. Turn around and do this a few more times. Repeat until you have slowed down from 60 at least 50 times (this will take the better part of 90 minutes).

4. You have now worn the glaze off of the pad. You see, the pad is held together with a binder. You have to gradually wear off the binder on the surface of the pad to expose the abrasive material that grabs the roror. If you heat the pad up too much, you actually cure a nice hard glaze of binder on top of the braking material that will need to be ground off if you want to use the pad.

5. Go easy on the brakes if you can for the next week, then take off the masking tape.

Next time, use Ferodo, Minitex, or Pagid (I like Minitex). If you want to be able to clean brake dust off of the wheel, wash the wheels off really well and use Klasse All-In-One for two coats followed by two coats of Klasse High Gloss. You will be able to wash the dust off of the wheels with a hose for a year or so.
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 5:15:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By trwoprod:

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
the reason why i did the bedding the brake pads was from this article that sells alot of brakes for BMW's...who knows

www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm


That article is an amazing load or horseshit. This is how you break in pads (I grew up racing cars, restore MBs, and used to be able to rebuild 1911 engines in my sleep -- cars and gardening are my two hobbies):

1. Put a strip of masking tape on your steering wheel at the top and write "green brakes" on it with a marker. You WILL forget otherwise.

2. Find a flat straight stretch of road. Accelerate to 60 mpg or so, and drag the car back to zero a few times to warm up the brakes. Turn around and do it again. Gently.

3. Accelerate to 60 mph and slow down to 10 mph a few times, firmly but NOT slamming on the brakes by any stretch of the imagination. Turn around and do this a few more times. Repeat until you have slowed down from 60 at least 50 times (this will take the better part of 90 minutes).

4. You have now worn the glaze off of the pad. You see, the pad is held together with a binder. You have to gradually wear off the binder on the surface of the pad to expose the abrasive material that grabs the roror. If you heat the pad up too much, you actually cure a nice hard glaze of binder on top of the braking material that will need to be ground off if you want to use the pad.

5. Go easy on the brakes if you can for the next week, then take off the masking tape.

Next time, use Ferodo, Minitex, or Pagid (I like Minitex). If you want to be able to clean brake dust off of the wheel, wash the wheels off really well and use Klasse All-In-One for two coats followed by two coats of Klasse High Gloss. You will be able to wash the dust off of the wheels with a hose for a year or so.


Carroll Smith prepare to win?
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 5:21:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By trwoprod:

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
the reason why i did the bedding the brake pads was from this article that sells alot of brakes for BMW's...who knows

www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm


That article is an amazing load or horseshit. This is how you break in pads (I grew up racing cars, restore MBs, and used to be able to rebuild 1911 engines in my sleep -- cars and gardening are my two hobbies):

1. Put a strip of masking tape on your steering wheel at the top and write "green brakes" on it with a marker. You WILL forget otherwise.

2. Find a flat straight stretch of road. Accelerate to 60 mpg or so, and drag the car back to zero a few times to warm up the brakes. Turn around and do it again. Gently.

3. Accelerate to 60 mph and slow down to 10 mph a few times, firmly but NOT slamming on the brakes by any stretch of the imagination. Turn around and do this a few more times. Repeat until you have slowed down from 60 at least 50 times (this will take the better part of 90 minutes).

4. You have now worn the glaze off of the pad. You see, the pad is held together with a binder. You have to gradually wear off the binder on the surface of the pad to expose the abrasive material that grabs the roror. If you heat the pad up too much, you actually cure a nice hard glaze of binder on top of the braking material that will need to be ground off if you want to use the pad.

5. Go easy on the brakes if you can for the next week, then take off the masking tape.

Next time, use Ferodo, Minitex, or Pagid (I like Minitex). If you want to be able to clean brake dust off of the wheel, wash the wheels off really well and use Klasse All-In-One for two coats followed by two coats of Klasse High Gloss. You will be able to wash the dust off of the wheels with a hose for a year or so.


So that's what the 1911 hype is all about! They have engines
+1 on Mintex, they are great (the ones with asbestos), had them on my race car, then went to Hawke pads, the were significantly better than mintex.
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 7:32:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2006 7:33:30 AM EDT by trwoprod]

Originally Posted By Punani:

Originally Posted By trwoprod:

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
the reason why i did the bedding the brake pads was from this article that sells alot of brakes for BMW's...who knows

www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm


That article is an amazing load or horseshit. This is how you break in pads (I grew up racing cars, restore MBs, and used to be able to rebuild 1911 engines in my sleep -- cars and gardening are my two hobbies):

1. Put a strip of masking tape on your steering wheel at the top and write "green brakes" on it with a marker. You WILL forget otherwise.

2. Find a flat straight stretch of road. Accelerate to 60 mpg or so, and drag the car back to zero a few times to warm up the brakes. Turn around and do it again. Gently.

3. Accelerate to 60 mph and slow down to 10 mph a few times, firmly but NOT slamming on the brakes by any stretch of the imagination. Turn around and do this a few more times. Repeat until you have slowed down from 60 at least 50 times (this will take the better part of 90 minutes).

4. You have now worn the glaze off of the pad. You see, the pad is held together with a binder. You have to gradually wear off the binder on the surface of the pad to expose the abrasive material that grabs the roror. If you heat the pad up too much, you actually cure a nice hard glaze of binder on top of the braking material that will need to be ground off if you want to use the pad.

5. Go easy on the brakes if you can for the next week, then take off the masking tape.

Next time, use Ferodo, Minitex, or Pagid (I like Minitex). If you want to be able to clean brake dust off of the wheel, wash the wheels off really well and use Klasse All-In-One for two coats followed by two coats of Klasse High Gloss. You will be able to wash the dust off of the wheels with a hose for a year or so.


So that's what the 1911 hype is all about! They have engines
+1 on Mintex, they are great (the ones with asbestos), had them on my race car, then went to Hawke pads, the were significantly better than mintex.


I have heard that they are good, just hard on the rotors. And I really shouldn't post when I am tired, either.
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 7:34:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-AK:

Originally Posted By trwoprod:

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
the reason why i did the bedding the brake pads was from this article that sells alot of brakes for BMW's...who knows

www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm


That article is an amazing load or horseshit. This is how you break in pads (I grew up racing cars, restore MBs, and used to be able to rebuild 1911 engines in my sleep -- cars and gardening are my two hobbies):

1. Put a strip of masking tape on your steering wheel at the top and write "green brakes" on it with a marker. You WILL forget otherwise.

2. Find a flat straight stretch of road. Accelerate to 60 mpg or so, and drag the car back to zero a few times to warm up the brakes. Turn around and do it again. Gently.

3. Accelerate to 60 mph and slow down to 10 mph a few times, firmly but NOT slamming on the brakes by any stretch of the imagination. Turn around and do this a few more times. Repeat until you have slowed down from 60 at least 50 times (this will take the better part of 90 minutes).

4. You have now worn the glaze off of the pad. You see, the pad is held together with a binder. You have to gradually wear off the binder on the surface of the pad to expose the abrasive material that grabs the roror. If you heat the pad up too much, you actually cure a nice hard glaze of binder on top of the braking material that will need to be ground off if you want to use the pad.

5. Go easy on the brakes if you can for the next week, then take off the masking tape.

Next time, use Ferodo, Minitex, or Pagid (I like Minitex). If you want to be able to clean brake dust off of the wheel, wash the wheels off really well and use Klasse All-In-One for two coats followed by two coats of Klasse High Gloss. You will be able to wash the dust off of the wheels with a hose for a year or so.


Carroll Smith prepare to win?


Mom, in an MB 6.9 with new pads and me at the wheel. I don't know where she got it. She used to go out to Bonneville when she was young and in California. Perhaps with that crowd.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:36:56 PM EDT
i give up on the aftermarket dustless brake pads, the noise annoyed the hell out of me. i switched back to OEM BMW pads and it is perfect again!
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:47:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
i give up on the aftermarket dustless brake pads, the noise annoyed the hell out of me. i switched back to OEM BMW pads and it is perfect again!


Try the Klasse on the wheels. It will make keeping them clean much easier.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:48:43 PM EDT
Just brake later and harder, it will cut down on the amount of time the brakes will squeal.

You drive a bimmer for pete's sakes.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:54:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By trwoprod:

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
i give up on the aftermarket dustless brake pads, the noise annoyed the hell out of me. i switched back to OEM BMW pads and it is perfect again!


Try the Klasse on the wheels. It will make keeping them clean much easier.


yep! i have been using Klasse AIO and SG on all my wheels for the past 3 years, great stuff!
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:55:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Just brake later and harder, it will cut down on the amount of time the brakes will squeal.

You drive a bimmer for pete's sakes.


lol! my GF will get car sick
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