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Posted: 9/17/2004 3:37:49 AM EST
Nevada Man Dies In Struggle With Authorities, Taser Involved

............

Associated Press

PHOENIX (AP) -- A 29-year-old Nevada man died after a struggle with authorities in which he was stunned with a Taser.

"I would call Taser part of the scenario," Washoe County Coroner Vernon McCarty said. "I don't think you can ignore it."

Jacob Lair died in June after a struggle with authorities in Sparks, Nev. He had methamphetamines in his system, but the levels were "not as high as you would normally expect" and this could not be called a drug overdose case, McCarty said.

Lair had been engaged in a physical struggle with law enforcement who used a Taser stun gun, pepper spray and restraints on him.

Taser stun guns have been touted as a less lethal way to subdue suspects.

The Arizona Republic has identified 71 people who have died following police Taser strikes in the United States and Canada since 1999. In two cases, they were cited as the cause of death.

Officials at Scottsdale-based Taser International Inc. said the stun guns have never caused a death or serious injury.

What is the expected level of methamphetamines in a person system? That statement alone makes the Coroner sound like a dumb ass.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:43:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 3:45:14 AM EST by fight4yourrights]
While at the Modern Day Marine show, I just watched a dozen people volunteer to get tasered over the last 3 days, and many more were done that I didn't see.

Nobody was asked to sign a release. No questions were asked about your health. Everyone got up within seconds of getting tasered and felt fine.


A Taser won't kill you. They have NEVER proven that the Taser killed anyone.


That Tweeker (?) had one foot in the grave anyway, it was the drugs that killed him.


I spent quite a bit of time talking to the Taser guy about this issue. It's always the drugs, not the Taser. That's been proven over and over.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:50:13 AM EST
Don't do anything bad, and you won't get Tazered. Duh!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:43:17 AM EST
Wouldn't a tweaker's heart be a dog's breakfast of hamburger, crepe paper, and fishing line anyway? As you know, I think Tasers are a bigger deal than some people do, but if this guy was a crank head, it seems like most anything could kill him.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:46:01 AM EST
Yes, but more importantly and lef tout of the story, the tweakers dog made it home safe that night!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:46:16 AM EST
[quote]What is the expected level of methamphetamines in a person system? That statement alone makes the Coroner sound like a dumb ass.

agreed.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 6:09:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By SIGNAL4L:
[quote]What is the expected level of methamphetamines in a person system? That statement alone makes the Coroner sound like a dumb ass.

agreed.




Well, in some trailer parks, there probably is a "background" meth level in the blood.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:06:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stoney-Point:
Don't do anything bad, and you won't get Tazered. Duh!



Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:10:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
While at the Modern Day Marine show, I just watched a dozen people volunteer to get tasered over the last 3 days, and many more were done that I didn't see.

Nobody was asked to sign a release. No questions were asked about your health. Everyone got up within seconds of getting tasered and felt fine.


A Taser won't kill you. They have NEVER proven that the Taser killed anyone.


That Tweeker (?) had one foot in the grave anyway, it was the drugs that killed him.


I spent quite a bit of time talking to the Taser guy about this issue. It's always the drugs, not the Taser. That's been proven over and over.



Cool...I wanna get Tasered!!!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:17:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Nevada Man Dies In Struggle With Authorities, Taser Involved



I am strangely unmoved by dead tweakers. The end is the same whether it comes sooner like this or in later a gutter somewhere.


-Z
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:01:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By SIGNAL4L:
[quote]What is the expected level of methamphetamines in a person system? That statement alone makes the Coroner sound like a dumb ass.

agreed.




Probably a misquote from the reporter. Perhaps the Coroner meant or stated something like, the expected level that normally acompanies an OD since the perp died. I've seen too many reporters report 1/4 of what is said.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:04:56 AM EST
Amphetamines make your heart race, a good tasing might just send the thing into shutdown mode


- BG
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:09:34 AM EST
Sparks, kind of the country around here.

Sad however, drugs. I just don't get it.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:17:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 8:18:37 AM EST by tommytrauma]



Originally Posted By AR15fan:Nevada cops kill tweeker with TASER
Nevada Man Dies In Struggle With Authorities, Taser Involved[/b


............

Associated Press

PHOENIX (AP) -- A 29-year-old Nevada man died after a struggle with authorities in which he was stunned with a Taser.

"I would call Taser part of the scenario," Washoe County Coroner Vernon McCarty said. "I don't think you can ignore it."

Jacob Lair died in June after a struggle with authorities in Sparks, Nev. He had methamphetamines in his system, but the levels were "not as high as you would normally expect" and this could not be called a drug overdose case, McCarty said.

Lair had been engaged in a physical struggle with law enforcement who used a Taser stun gun, pepper spray and restraints on him.

Taser stun guns have been touted as a less lethal way to subdue suspects.

The Arizona Republic has identified 71 people who have died following police Taser strikes in the United States and Canada since 1999. In two cases, they were cited as the cause of death.

Officials at Scottsdale-based Taser International Inc. said the stun guns have never caused a death or serious injury.

What is the expected level of methamphetamines in a person system? That statement alone makes the Coroner sound like a dumb ass.



Why do you believe the taser was the cause of death, and not the pepper spray, restraints, the inevitible physical struggle, an underlying medical condition, etc?

While the meth level might not have been at a level considered overdosing, it still jacks up cardiac workload. Add the stress and physical activities of such a situation, and it wouldn't be surprising for anyone with a cardiac history to have problems. Knowing nothing about his medical history, how are you ruling this out?

I've been tased a couple of times, and seen many naughty ones who have been welded. I'm convinced that the taser itself is safe. The situations where they are deployed are, however, inherently unsafe. Of course there have been deaths in these situations. There are also quite a few 'in custody' deaths where a taser wasn't deployed.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:18:34 AM EST
If this guy was a meth user, then any shock to his system would have killed him.

Sucks to be him, eh?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:21:22 AM EST
If you taser a normal, healthy person, they'll be pissed about the pain, but they'll be just fine.

If you taser someone whose heart is already about to explode because they're so tweaked out on meth, the result will have a much greater effect.

Anyone who calls this a "tragedy" should think twice about where that guy would have ended up 2 years later.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:25:37 AM EST

And now the world is a little sadder place with the passing of another crankster..."



Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:37:23 AM EST
I can see the line forming at the Taser booth at Gunstock:

"Come on folks, don't be shy, it only hurts for a second. A free __________ for the person who can stay on their feet the longest".
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:50:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 8:50:58 AM EST by AZ-K9]
SPARKS, NEVADA.





­
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:57:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 9:09:19 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
The story paints the picture of one heck of a fight....

The taser has been employed many many many times in its short lifespan. And on a normal, reasonably healthy adult, it has no permanent effect. Now if someone is on 9 kinds of smack and has a heart that is ready to explode any second, then ANY exertion or stimulus can kick off a fatality. Remeber the almost 400 pound gorilla that was in a fight with those cops a while back and died? The fight was a "contributing factor" in his death. But so was the fact that he was almost 200 pounds overweight, had a cholesterol level through the roof, an enlarged heart, and all the various other indicators of severe heart disease. The guy's system was in as bad a shape as people in intensive care units, so naturally the exertion of trying to beat the crap out of 5 police officers had its effect. So "contributing factor" really is a deceptive term.

A protracted physical fight with the cops can certainly be one of the things that kicks off a heart attack. So can heat delivered by OC spray. If the person's cardio-vascular system is in really bad shape, any sort of exertion or stimulus can "cause" a fatal attack, but only in the sense that the stimulus was just the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. The truth is that people in this shape can die from something as simple as walking up a hill. My grandfather had severe congestive heart failure but never told anyone about his symptoms. One day he was walking the dog and went up a hill on the way back to the house. A few minutes after getting home he was suffering chest pains, and he had a massive heart attack that almost killed 70% of his heart's function. He never recovered from it. The walk didn't kill him, his inattention to his condition prior to the walk killed him.

Tazers are not the wonder-stun weapons from Star Trek. And just like vaccines, there are certain people who probably will not do well with them. But overall they do far more good than ill, and the number of 71 people being dead from tasers is just insane. I bet if you looked at murder victims, that sometime in the last 24 hours before their death they had eaten bread. But that hardly makes the case that bread was a contributing factor in their death. People with weak hearts may indeed be at increased risk of death or permanent injury when hit by a taser. But when a guy is strong enough to sling around 4 beefy cops like rag dolls, the idea of him having a weak heart doesn't cross the minds of most officers....

The fact that hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people have been tazed with no long lasting effects seems to demonstrate that they are pretty safe. In a case where you have a guy on crank who is putting up a hell of a fight, it is certainly safer to tase him than shoot him or get officers hurt and exposed to greater danger when trying to subdue him.

Tasers are treated pretty respectfully by most departments. Any deployment requires a patrol commander or Sgt. on scene to file a report and to get the story. Dashcam video is also retrieved if possible, and witness statements are taken. The unit itself records the use for download and corroboration of officer/witness statements.

There are some people who use them like they are joy-buzzers to be sure, but these people are few and far in-between. There is a decided effort by some to attack the tasers because of one reason or another, most of them being from the Amnesty International brigades who have never seen a use of force that they agree with....

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 9:34:34 AM EST
Cool...saves Court costs. As an added bonus, a little charge of juice saves wasting a bullet on a piece of dogshit.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:09:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ_Hi_Desert:
If this guy was a meth user, then any shock to his system would have killed him.




I believe some of you are greatly overestimating both the effects, and overdose potential of methamphetamine. I know hundreds of tweekers. In 11 years I have responded to zero meth overdoses. Of the hundreds of tweekers i know 2 of them have died while using meth. One allegedly overdosed in tiajuana. The other had many other medical problems, including lung disease.

Heroin and alcohol both have much greater potential for fatal overdoser than Methamphetamine. exstacy and GHB kill way more people than methamhetamine. Cocaine causes heart problems not seen with other stimulants, i cant explain why though.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:12:30 PM EST
Somehow, I cant feel sorry for this guy. Hes on drugs, hes resisting arrest, and hes lucky the cop even had a taster. Otherwise, he probably would have gotten shot.
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