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Posted: 4/30/2011 5:17:48 PM EDT
We are going to throw up a double car carport that will be conected to the house. OBVIOUSLY one is suposed to jump through all the required city hoops for something like this,

It will be done with a pitched roof that comes back and ieses into existing, Not goona be so pc of shit flat top carport. It is going to tie into the rest of the house nicely.

Our plans are to go get everything we need at a lumber supply yard. Drop poles in gound in cement on thurs. Start building out the structure fri sat . Roof sun. Miller time about 6 on \Sunday.
City Nazis. Or if we get it up and in place quick enough they might not notice.  Give me scenarios here boys I need to mull on this a bit.





Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:19:59 PM EDT
I have nothing to add other than I hope it all works out and I support going with the plan.

That Miller will taste twice as good if it works.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:21:56 PM EDT
Well I can name a bad scenario or 2.

Neighbor turns you in and you have to demolish the structure for lack of a building permit.

Somehow the city notices even without someone pointing it out to them and you have to demolish the structure.  

Either way, I would probably just apply for a building permit.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:23:06 PM EDT
stack the materials behind your house and prk all the vehicles in front of a neighbors house so they get confused when they drive by
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:23:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CanNevrHaveEnuffGuns:
Well I can name a bad scenario or 2.

Neighbor turns you in and you have to demolish the structure for lack of a building permit.

Somehow the city notices even without someone pointing it out to them and you have to demolish the structure.  

Either way, I would probably just apply for a building permit.


This. It's not worth it .
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:24:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CanNevrHaveEnuffGuns:
Well I can name a bad scenario or 2.

Neighbor turns you in and you have to demolish the structure for lack of a building permit.

Somehow the city notices even without someone pointing it out to them and you have to demolish the structure.  

Either way, I would probably just apply for a building permit.


I have never heard of someone having to demolish a structure unless it was so far inferior that it needed to be done./
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:25:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 5:25:25 PM EDT by ApacheScout]
Most times all they can do is make you submit plans and pay a fine plus permit fees.


Your nephew should know how stringent the local building dept. is.


Just be sure to build it to code specs and they only want money if caught.

 
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:25:22 PM EDT
When I was repairing the deck on the wife's house It was so shittily built to start with that it took quite a bit to get it right. The rat bastard building inspector in charge of the village made us excavate the posts to demonstrate the depth of the holes. He also wanted a heavier beam put in. He wanted us to take it down and rebuild it. Instead I loosened the deck and jacked it up to slip in the new beam. Lesson learned. They can and will make you take it down if they feel pissy.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:25:27 PM EDT
here the worst that happens is them make you get a permit paying 5 times the standard cost and then make you tear it down and start over
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:26:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Most times all they can do is make you submit plans and pay a fine plus permit fees.
Your nephew should know how stringent the local building dept. is.
Just be sure to build it to code specs and they only want money if caught.  


Yeah that is along the lines I was thinking.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:32:07 PM EDT
What's a permit cost, $200? I've seen a 40x60 pole building have to be disassembled because the builder thought they could get by under the radar, and he was out in the country. City and township inspectors go on power trips like Obama goes on vacation.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:32:49 PM EDT

I am a contractor as well; in my city, if the homeowner does any work of which the cost is over $2000, then a permit is required.



Your city might have a similar statute.






Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:49:29 PM EDT
here its 500 but if it involves a structure, plumbing, electrical or mechanical it has to be permitted or tore down


Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:02:36 PM EDT
If you have a bad neighbor, they will call in on you and the building inspector will be there Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning.
Your municipality will jack you for all the money they can if that happens.
I've seen stupid sh*t like an inspector requiring grounding screws be installed on plastic boxes.
Get the permits and put up with the stupid and ignorant inspectors or you could be very well wishing you had.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:05:59 PM EDT
Around here they are out in full force looking for situations just like this, they can't have you putting them out of work.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:16:52 PM EDT
Another issue is your Nephew is a contractor and if the inspector finds out he was involved, it will go a lot harder because Nephew should have known a permit was required. Ignorant home owners might get a break, a contractor knows better and will be spanked by the city/county if not the state licensing board.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:21:07 PM EDT
Your nephew is a "contractor" wanting to skip permits?!?!?

What is the name of said company? Y'know, so nobody mistakenly calls up for a quote...
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:26:00 PM EDT
Offer the neighbor some Miller if he helps you out.

Take him down with you somewhat.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:40:09 PM EDT
Quote "Nephew is a contractor and i have many years of the shit myself. Question."

Really?? You know the answer to your question. Particularly since your nephew is a contractor. He knows the rules and so do you.

FWIW my neighbor pulled the same stunt in late 04. This neighbor was a job Super for a local builder, so he knew the rules AND was familiar to/with the  local  building officials. Building (30 x 40 detached garage) was framed and sheeted on a weekend and roofed and sided the following weekend. Asshole bragged about how fast he built it, no permit ,fuck the city, blah blah blah. All of the neighbors were

Then Karma sets in: This was a "floating slab " building: 4 inch floor with a 1ft x 1 ft thickened perimeter. He had planned on Wirsbo in-floor heat for the building. Being a concrete guy, I try to help by suggesting he bury 2 inch styro 2ft deep around the perimeter of the building to help insulate the slab (a somewhat common practice up here due to frost). Nope he says "my guy says I don't need it" I said OK, whatever". December rolls around and his first month of the winter propane bill rolls in: 300.00!! What is he doing the first week of January when we get a thaw?? Yup, picking and digging a shovel width around the perimeter of the building to put in styro. I stop in and said "What are you doing?" He says "My guy says Styro should help" My reply: "Really?" The styro brought the heat bill down a bit, but not enough to make him happy. Did I mention he's a cheapskate?

So then he has to trade out the cheapy water heater he opted for at the suggestion of "his guy", because the cheapy couldn't keep up with the demand.

So fast forward to last fall. Guess what? We all get notices that our neighborhood is up for assessment. I just chuckle because I know what is coming. When the Assessor came around the neighbors wife said the Assessor said "I'm not here to check for permits, just changes in the structures on the property". Neighbors wife says "We don't have anything to worry about" I said "Orly?" I mean really?? Like the Assessor finds a new 1200 sq ft garage that they aren't paying taxes on and he's not going to say anything??? Fuckin DUH!!
So spring rolls around and they are marking utilities and diggin up the inspection cover on the septic tank. One of the other neighbors tells me that :SUPRISE!!! The city found out he didn't pull a permit to build his garage so they are doing the septic system inspection they do when you pull a permit.

The penalty? Well, I know from another neighbors experience that you pay double the original permit price, and I heard they had to pay back taxes on the 4 years they flew under the radar.  I have not confiirmed this, it's just a rumor, but I do know that our county maintains aerial photos of the properties in the county and retakes them every two years. I went into the county website and the garage didn't show up in the 04 photos, but it sure did in the 06 photos, so they can prove what he did.  YMMV

So ....IBTIGCNPAPFMB Thread: In Before The "I Got Caught Not Pulling A Permit For My Building" Thread

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:43:45 PM EDT
A fence or something, small, or inside you can get away with... Unless a carport
is on the back side or otherwise hard to see then my suggestion
would be to submit the siteplan, pay an engineer $50 to attach some
Some standard details and submit. Certainly, your nephew knows
An engineer.

I have made some good money over the years bailing out people
who's project got reflagged because they did not submit drawings and
pull a permit.  

Is this your house or a clients? If it is a clients then you need to do
The right thing.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:44:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Another issue is your Nephew is a contractor and if the inspector finds out he was involved, it will go a lot harder because Nephew should have known a permit was required. Ignorant home owners might get a break, a contractor knows better and will be spanked by the city/county if not the state licensing board.


"Ignorant Homeowner"  doesn't fly anymore. It's 2011, everyone knows someone who will tell them they need a permit. That and "Ignorance is no excuse" and all.

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:02:37 PM EDT
Guy that works at the local gas station has a trailer. He wanted to build a deck. City said he needed a building permit. He didn't want to get one. City said if deck is one foot or closer to trailer it is attached and needs a permit. Bob builds deck 13 inches away from trailer to spite city. He laughs about it for a year. One day, Bob misses the space between trailer and deck and breaks his ankle. Bob has permanent damage to his ankle and walks with a cane. 100%True story. Bob still tells the story like he beat the system. I am serious.

Get the permit. Its really not that big of a deal.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:04:45 PM EDT
Any nosy asshole neighbors?
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:16:01 PM EDT
I used to be a superintendent at my last job and this one guy screwed with me and my coworkers at closing.  Well shortly afterward he put up a tool shed and we were pretty sure he didn't apply for a building permit.  We reported the construction to the city and a few short days later, there was no longer a tool shed there.  

What a shame...
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:19:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TerribleTom:
Any nosy asshole neighbors?


Probably just as many as asshole neighbors who don't want to follow the rules like the rest of the neighbors.

Pretty fucking simple: If you don't want to get in trouble don't break the rules. Then you don't have to worry about nosy asshole neighbors

Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:13:35 AM EDT



Originally Posted By bikertrash:



Originally Posted By ApacheScout:

Another issue is your Nephew is a contractor and if the inspector finds out he was involved, it will go a lot harder because Nephew should have known a permit was required. Ignorant home owners might get a break, a contractor knows better and will be spanked by the city/county if not the state licensing board.




"Ignorant Homeowner"  doesn't fly anymore. It's 2011, everyone knows someone who will tell them they need a permit. That and "Ignorance is no excuse" and all.





True, but it depends on the level of arrogance. I've seen a lot of homeowners get caught for various things that they truly didn't know a permit was required. They were apologetic and willing to work with the building dept. to make it right. The BD was helpful and went easy on them.

I've also seen arrogant Aholes that just flaunt their disdain for the BD and get spanked hard.

As a contractor, I've built up a repore with the inspectors around here. They know they can trust me when I say I will correct something and I'm not intentionally trying to BS them. Thats the worst thing you can do. They can smell BS a mile away. The guys that try to pull shit are the ones that you hear crying about how mean the inspectors are.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:21:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:

Originally Posted By bikertrash:
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Another issue is your Nephew is a contractor and if the inspector finds out he was involved, it will go a lot harder because Nephew should have known a permit was required. Ignorant home owners might get a break, a contractor knows better and will be spanked by the city/county if not the state licensing board.


"Ignorant Homeowner"  doesn't fly anymore. It's 2011, everyone knows someone who will tell them they need a permit. That and "Ignorance is no excuse" and all.


True, but it depends on the level of arrogance. I've seen a lot of homeowners get caught for various things that they truly didn't know a permit was required. They were apologetic and willing to work with the building dept. to make it right. The BD was helpful and went easy on them.
I've also seen arrogant Aholes that just flaunt their disdain for the BD and get spanked hard.
As a contractor, I've built up a repore with the inspectors around here. They know they can trust me when I say I will correct something and I'm not intentionally trying to BS them. Thats the worst thing you can do. They can smell BS a mile away. The guys that try to pull shit are the ones that you hear crying about how mean the inspectors are.
 


You are correct sir!
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:23:33 AM EDT
Take detailed measured pictures of any holes, reinforcing bar, and footings for your records. You may need them.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:25:02 AM EDT
Exactly what are you hoping to save by not getting a permit? In most places a permit is about $5 per $1000 of the value. Tell them the carport is worth about $3000, pay $15 and be on your way. For most "accessory structures" you don't need plans, even. The city will give you the requirements, and you just have to follow the code.



Or are you suggesting that your nephew the "contractor" knows better than the building codes, and "done it like this a million times before, never had any trouble?"
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:25:44 AM EDT



Originally Posted By ObsoleteMan:


Take detailed measured pictures of any holes, reinforcing bar, and footings for your records. You may need them.


They're not planning on putting any rebar anywhere. That's why they're skirting the permit.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:32:00 AM EDT

I don't know anything about construction, but I'm pretty sure you can't say shit in a thread title.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:38:21 AM EDT
Drop poles in gound in cement on thurs. Start building out the structure fri sat . Roof sun.


Yep, the concrete around those poles will be ready to bear weight in 24 hours (and are unlikely to  meet code for holding up a structure).
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 7:54:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 7:55:35 AM EDT by c5hardtop]
...
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:05:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigeasySnow:

I don't know anything about construction, but I'm pretty sure you can't say shit in a thread title.


I think I see a pattern here. Rules? We don't need no stinkin rules.

I built a detached garage in my back yard last year. The permit was $30.

The peace of mind from knowing the Man is not going to break it off in me is well worth it.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:06:56 AM EDT



Originally Posted By brickeyee:



Drop poles in gound in cement on thurs. Start building out the structure fri sat . Roof sun.




Yep, the concrete around those poles will be ready to bear weight in 24 hours (and are unlikely to  meet code for holding up a structure).


Better yet, set anchors in the footings, no one will notice.  That way, you can get a few days of cure without anyone noticing.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:09:02 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Blaze454:



Originally Posted By CanNevrHaveEnuffGuns:

Well I can name a bad scenario or 2.



Neighbor turns you in and you have to demolish the structure for lack of a building permit.



Somehow the city notices even without someone pointing it out to them and you have to demolish the structure.  



Either way, I would probably just apply for a building permit.




I have never heard of someone having to demolish a structure unless it was so far inferior that it needed to be done./


If you build a structure without a permit and someone complains, trust me, you'll be tearing it down.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:16:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 8:16:38 AM EDT by FlashHole]
Get a permit.

My neighbor built a very nice 2 story garage and just about the time he finished it up, the city came by and made him take it down.   Poor bastard worked on it for 8 months or so and I was quite jealous of it.  I bet that little mistake cost him 20-30 grand.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:27:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 8:34:32 AM EDT by cyborg543]
I work in construction, the design end.

I used to do construction inspection, let me make sure that you guys understand somethign perfectly:

THE REASON YOU NEED PERMITS IS BECAUSE PEOPLE BUILD DOGSHIT IF LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES.

People will literally run brown lamp cords taped together behind a wall instead of buying the correct copper wire.

Unless there is an army of inspectors on any contruction job, the contractor will build junk, cut every corner until the job is basically worthless garbage.

If you go shopping for a house, you will see flagrantly awful dogshit herbie homeowner contruction, deck sinking into the mud becasue they have no foundation, bad wiring, shit plumbing, bathroom ventilators vented into the ceiling, etc etc etc.

The combination of cheapness and ignorance produces dangerous junk.

Also, unless you are a structural engineer, you have no business designing any structure.

There's a reason why half the city falls down when they have an earthquake in mexico.

So, in conclusion, you "no permit" guys are full of shit on the whole permitting thing, exactly 100% out of phase with the easily-identifiable and obvious reality of the situation.





MEH, WHO NEEDS THEM DUMB OLD CIVIL ENGINEERS.  THESE HERE UNREINFORCED 12" PILES SHOULD PROBABLY DO THE TRICK, ALWAYS WORKED BEFORE!!
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:28:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Drop poles in gound in cement on thurs. Start building out the structure fri sat . Roof sun.


Yep, the concrete around those poles will be ready to bear weight in 24 hours (and are unlikely to  meet code for holding up a structure).

Better yet, set anchors in the footings, no one will notice.  That way, you can get a few days of cure without anyone noticing.
 


Or maybe even build it correctly.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:32:43 AM EDT
I renovated my whole house in NY, I did it without permits. When I went to sell I had to get the permits and the ones that were opened from my inlaws. It was a pain in the neck because I wanted to sell and it made the process worse then needed. If I had to do it again I would just get the permits from the begining.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:33:39 AM EDT
In Before Title Change.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:34:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
I work in construction, the design end.

I used to do construction inspection, let me make sure that you guys understand somethign perfectly:

THE REASON YOU NEED PERMITS IS BECAUSE PEOPLE BUILD DOGSHIT IF LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES.

People will literally run brown lamp cords taped together behind a wall instead of buying the correct copper wire.


So what?

You do not believe I have a right to build a house you think is "crap" on my own property?

As soon as you buy my property from me, you can decide what goes on.  Until then, shove off.  You worry about your business and leave me to worry about mine.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:38:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:45:51 AM EDT



Originally Posted By caexpat:



So what?



You do not believe I have a right to build a house you think is "crap" on my own property?



As soon as you buy my property from me, you can decide what goes on.  Until then, shove off.  You worry about your business and leave me to worry about mine.


Doesn't mean shit to me, but it might to your homeowner's insurance carrier, the fire department, the gas company, the water department, the electric company, the sewer district...



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:46:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigeasySnow:

I don't know anything about construction, but I'm pretty sure you can't say shit in a thread title.


Nice catch. We've already had a "shit" and a "fuck" today, so we might get them all by bedtime.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:46:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 8:47:46 AM EDT by cyborg543]
Originally Posted By caexpat:
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
I work in construction, the design end.

I used to do construction inspection, let me make sure that you guys understand somethign perfectly:

THE REASON YOU NEED PERMITS IS BECAUSE PEOPLE BUILD DOGSHIT IF LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES.

People will literally run brown lamp cords taped together behind a wall instead of buying the correct copper wire.


So what?

You do not believe I have a right to build a house you think is "crap" on my own property?

As soon as you buy my property from me, you can decide what goes on.  Until then, shove off.  You worry about your business and leave me to worry about mine.


Dead wrong.

A fireman may have to enter your house to save your life, and he might not be happy if the fucker collapses on his head because you ran studs at 36' instead of 16".

Also, when you sell your house, you don't put a sign on the lawn that says, "My furnace is not properly vented and is a deadly menace.  You might die if you buy this house.  Also, the deck will eventually pull free from the wall because I was too cheap to build it properly."

Everyone on arfcom worships "freedom" as long as it serves his exact personal interests.

When it comes to you saving a few dollars by cutting corners on construction, you're all for it.  When the roof blows off your new house because the sleezebag contractor cut corners, then it's lawyer time.

i never take anything in arf GD too seriously, it mostly just all attitude instead of an opinion.  kind of like the DU website.

i spent years inspecting heavy construction, no threats, no argument, no nothing ever budged me an inch, the contractor built exactly what he was being paid to build.   if he tried to fuck the taxpayers (meaning you) , his shit got ripped out and rebuilt at his cost.   Aren't i just awful?
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:47:57 AM EDT



Originally Posted By caexpat:



Originally Posted By cyborg543:

I work in construction, the design end.



I used to do construction inspection, let me make sure that you guys understand somethign perfectly:



THE REASON YOU NEED PERMITS IS BECAUSE PEOPLE BUILD DOGSHIT IF LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES.



People will literally run brown lamp cords taped together behind a wall instead of buying the correct copper wire.




So what?



You do not believe I have a right to build a house you think is "crap" on my own property?



As soon as you buy my property from me, you can decide what goes on.  Until then, shove off.  You worry about your business and leave me to worry about mine.


LOL, not sure is serious.  



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 8:54:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
There's a reason why half the city falls down when they have an earthquake in mexico.



Yeah because there was a fucking earthquake
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 9:06:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 9:09:11 AM EDT by 8531sgt]
I'm a licensed Inspector and Contractor in Oregon and trade licensed in Washington so I hope this applies.
If you and your nephew are in Washington state they are real hot on permits and have a big push like in Oregon to permit everything.
I don't agree with it but if you get caught, which is way too easy nowadays, you're at least going to be paying a fine and double permit charges.
If your nephew is a contractor he puts his license in jeopardy by doing this.
Is the house a stick built or mobile? In some areas you didn't used to need a permit for a 'carport', but that's not the case anymore. You even need a permit for a barn/ag-building.
In Oregon it's no big deal for a permit for an accessory structure for a mobile, but a little more for a stick built though not too much.
It's pretty similar in Wa.
Go to their building trades site and there will be all kinds of info for your building questions.

I'd be happy to help more through pm if needed
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 9:08:37 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Blaze454:


We are going to throw up a double car carport that will be conected to the house. OBVIOUSLY one is suposed to jump through all the required city hoops for something like this,



It will be done with a pitched roof that comes back and ieses into existing, Not goona be so pc of shit flat top carport. It is going to tie into the rest of the house nicely.



Our plans are to go get everything we need at a lumber supply yard. Drop poles in gound in cement on thurs. Start building out the structure fri sat . Roof sun. Miller time about 6 on \Sunday.

City Nazis. Or if we get it up and in place quick enough they might not notice.  Give me scenarios here boys I need to mull on this a bit.
Mike Holmes does not approve of this plan.





 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 9:16:06 AM EDT
You want to save money, the inspectors/assessors want to do their jobs. Who's going to win? I wouldn't bet on you.
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