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Posted: 9/25/2004 5:24:32 AM EST
Hi all,

I need some quick answers this morning if someone is out there because I am about to take a gun back to a store I bought yesterday and I need some facts.

I bought a Compact CDP at "new price" ($940).

I specifically asked the guy ot break it down once in the store and he refused. Store policy.

I get home to realize the pistol is a Series I and not a Series II. NO big deal, I guess. I know a lot of guys prefer the Series I.

I also find some minor rust on the outer barrel (I polished it off no problem), a decent amount of wear on the frame where the black coating has been worn off from bullet wear on the feed ramp, and the black has been worn off the frame on the slide rails. I unfortunately do not have a digital camera. I could MAYBE attribute the slide wear to the gun shop, but not the frame feed ramp wear. I basically think I have been sold a used gun.

It is in good shape and I got lucky to find a Series I, but that is BS that they sold it to me as a new gun.

What I need to know is when did Kimber switch from Series I to Series II and should there be any wear on a new gun from test-firing?

Also there was no warranty card or take-down pin in my pistol case, two things I would assume Kimber gives you with the new pistol.

If I am going to go back there, I need to have my facts straight to try and get some cash back.

-Juice Out
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:32:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 5:33:34 AM EST by JasonD]
It is my understanding that they first started turning out series II guns sometime in 2002. At any rate, if it is a series I kimber it is used. I personally would prefer the series I to the series II but like you said if the shop sold it as new and it is in fact used you are entitled to some compensation.
One more thing, if your shop will not break down firearms before they sell them, I would say its time to find a new shop.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:33:17 AM EST
Not sure on the exact date but its been a couple of years since they changed to the series II. I have not seen a series I in our local Kimber dealers store for well over a year. As to the debate on I vs II you will find guys on both sides but most seem to prefer the I as I do. I have noticed a distinct difference between the triggers. It sounds like you for sure did get a used pistol though and $940 is $1-200 too much for a used series I compact.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:39:31 AM EST
Keep the Series 1, bigjuice.

The gunshop may have let you down a bit, but the Series 1 is head and shoulders above a Series II.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:39:54 AM EST
thanks for the quick reply guys!

I agree that this is my last purchase with these guys, even if I don't get any money back. I got that shitty feeling in my gut when the guy said he would not break it down for me.

I am going to keep the Series I but am going to try for some cash back. The guys that work there have the prick attitude except for the owner so I hope he is in.

Thanks for the information, guys. It is much appreciated. i am about to head over there and see what happens.

-Juice Out
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:40:31 AM EST
Going back in my mind here, I bought my series one used after they had gone to the series 2. I know I have had mine for over 2 years. closer to 2 1/2 years. You have a used gun on your hands and they charged you to much, but good luck getting anything out of it.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:51:14 AM EST
The downside is it appears you bought a used gun at "new" price. The upside is you have a Series I gun. I would take that over the Series II any day. That's fucked up that the shop wouldn't break the gun down. All that tells me is that they have something to hide, and I'd tell them they could keep it if I couldn't see the gun internally. It definitely sounds like you need to find a new dealer. I wouldn't worry too much about the pistol though. It should serve you well.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:01:09 AM EST
Take it back if you are not happy. Don't let him get away with it he will do it again to sombody else. Tell him you will Keep it but make him give you some money back.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:11:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootr:
Keep the Series 1, bigjuice.

The gunshop may have let you down a bit, but the Series 1 is head and shoulders above a Series II.



+1

I have an Ultra CDP Series I...none finer than the Kimber CDP at that price...
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:29:45 AM EST
That's what I have. Damn good pistol, isn't it?
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:37:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By junebug68:
That's what I have. Damn good pistol, isn't it?



Yes it is!
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:38:06 AM EST
You may not have a used pistol. I've seen an occasional Series I floating around Kimber has brought back some runs of the Series I design.

All Kimber pistols are shot at the factory and your CDP has an aluminum frame. The black oxide coating on the Kimbers wears easily.

My Compact Aluminum Stainless didn't come with a takedown pin.

All Kimbers are warranteed for life regardless of owner so you're covered.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 9:23:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 9:24:40 AM EST by bigjuice]

Originally Posted By Lycanthrope:
You may not have a used pistol. I've seen an occasional Series I floating around Kimber has brought back some runs of the Series I design.

All Kimber pistols are shot at the factory and your CDP has an aluminum frame. The black oxide coating on the Kimbers wears easily.

My Compact Aluminum Stainless didn't come with a takedown pin.

All Kimbers are warranteed for life regardless of owner so you're covered.



UPDATE

Lycanthrope is right.

So I go back to the gun store reciting over and over again in my mind not to get pissed. So I get inside and open up the case with the pistol borken down. I an see my hand shaking when I pick up the slide. Not good, I am pissed. I tell them my complaint. Two of the guys are arguing while one guy stays cool and talks with me about it. He pulls up my serial number and hsows me on the computer where they bought it from wholesaler in January 2002 and it has been in-house since. That was pretty good evidence. The seal the deal, I asked them to break apart a new Ultra CDP II in the counter that was still greased up. They broke it down for me and the wear was indentical. So I ate some crow, thanked them for being up front with me and then I talked to the cool guy about gun stuff for another ten minutes. He also said he had a compact CDP II with the external extractor coming in to the shop in several days and he would make an even swap if I didn't shoot mine. No thanks, I'll keep my rare find brand new Series I

Now could I still be getting screwed? Posible but highly unlikey. Thanks for all of your help, guys.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 9:31:01 AM EST
Glad that worked out for you, chief. You're gonna be really happy with that gun. I would trust mine with my life without hesitation.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 9:33:54 AM EST
There are some Series Is still new in the stores. I even have one left that nobody has bought for some reason.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 11:23:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 11:24:29 AM EST by hawk1]
Keep in mind he may well have ordered it from the wholesaler in January 2002. Sold it to a customer who then used it for an unknown length of time. Now the new buyer trades it back to the same dealer towards another/different weapon. Just a thought....

Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:32:08 PM EST
I agree. I have no way to be 100% on this deal. But they gave me a good explanation and there is no wear on the external parts: slide stop, thumb safety, etc.

After I looked into that brand new CDP Ultra that they broke down for me, I was at peace with the deal. That brand new gun still covered in cosmoline had the exact same amount of wear as the compact CDP that I was holding and had bought.

I haven't posted for a while and I came on here firing away for quick answers. I appreicate everyones' replies. Like I said, I may still have gotten screwed. I will never know. Regardless, I got a great gun and only the range report will tell the true story...
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:41:45 PM EST
Can somebody briefly tell me what the differences between a series 1 and 2 are? And why the 1 is better?
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:59:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 6:00:17 PM EST by JasonD]
When Kimber first got started they were trying to breaking into the market for 1911's so naturally they made a great product. With success inevitably comes apathy.

The series II guns have a different safety that some folks just don't like.
Also, the series I guns had their metal injection molding (MIM) done by a company other than Kimber.

With the start of series II Kimber brought their MIM production in house and they have been having some quality control issues. The screw ups are few and far between but they are happening. Things like thumb safeties and other parts snapping off for no apparent reason.

Find yourself a series I and you will never look back.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:05:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By NightWatchman:
Can somebody briefly tell me what the differences between a series 1 and 2 are? And why the 1 is better?



Series I guns have no firing pin safety. Series II guns have a firing pin safety tied to the grip safety. This is a design originally developed for Colt prior to WWII, which they shipped some experimental guns. Colt eventually went with a firing pin safety tied to the trigger, called the series 80.

The problem with the colt series 80 is that it affects the trigger pull, since the action of the trigger is moving the firing pin block out of the way so the gun can fire.

The problem with the Kimber series II is that it was reported that it was causing failures to return to battery when Kimber changed over. Also, if you are depressing the grip safety when removing the slide, you can have problems with disassembly.

The problem with having no firing pin block is that the gun can fire if dropped on the muzzle with a round in the chamber, from the inertia of the firing pin. Having a titanium firing pin will reduce the chance of this.

My own opinion is I don't really care. I've shot all three types and they all can have a good trigger pull, and I believe that any reliability problems have been fixed by now.

The general consensus seems to be that the firing pin safety on a 1911 is a lawyer invented feature, and isn't necessary.

My own opinion is that I did personally drop (on accident) a springfield .45 with no firing pin block from a height of about four feet. The round in the chamber did not fire, but had a LARGE dimple in the primer. It is my opinion that if the height had been greater, the gun may have fired. It is also my opinion that if I had a proper holster at the time, I never would have dropped the gun. My brother in law dropped a springfield compact and the gun DID fire. I don't know specifics because he was very embaressed by the incident and I believe he wasn't entirely truthful when relating the story.

Personally, I prefer the firing pin block, either kimber or colt. My own personal choice of 1911 to carry is a Colt Delta Elite 10mm which DOES have the series 80 block. My nightstand gun is a colt 1952 commercial 1911 which does not. Both are left cocked and locked.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:08:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 6:10:11 PM EST by fight4yourrights]
Enjoy
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:09:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:30:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 6:35:18 PM EST by palmer]
Edited to say:

I didn;t see your update, definetly it's a keeper!
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