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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/14/2003 10:08:54 PM EDT
Here's my situation; I live in Las Vegas, one of the fastest growing cities in the nation. Houses in the $130K-$170k range, like the one I'm currently selling, are snapped up real quick... ours went on the market for $164K and in less than 24 hours we had an offer for $165k, the extra grand thrown in just so the buyer would have a shot against all the other offers we got. What we asked for the house is about 2-3 grand high, but we have 6 months more till our new house is built so we're in no real hurry and don't need to sell this one right away. We figured the higher price would keep it on the market for a while.

Here's the problem; the buyers appraisal came back today and they're saying that the place is only worth $161k. So they (the buyer) came back and offered $161K (guess they forgot about the extra grand, huh?), saying that was all the place was worth. My realtor, who sounded suspiciously like he just wants to be done with the deal, is telling me to take the offer. I think that it's such a sellers market here that I can get what I'm asking out of the house. Oh, and the appraiser never even came and looked at my house, he just based it on comps in the neighborhood.

As a side note, the chick that wants to buy the place is putting $30 grand down, so her getting the financing isn't going to depend on a few grand here or there.

I told them that they could hash that crap out and she could back out of the deal if she wants, but I won't drop the price. It kind of pissed me off for them to make an offer and then retract it, based on that appraisal. Especially since they offered more than we were asking, and when they counter offered they left that money out. That extra money is what got her the nod in the first place, we actually liked another family better, but they only offered what we were asking.


What do you guys with experience buying and selling think? This is my first home sale and I want to be sure I'm doing it right.

Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:16:06 PM EDT
Tell her to kiss off, provided that the market is how you describe it. I guarnDAMNtee you that another shmuck of a residential real-estate appraiser would come along and say $166k. And $162k. And $163k. And $164k. And what ever number they can pull out of their butt! If she jumped at $165k, then isn't that a prime indication of what the market will bear? Or what a buyer will pay? Sounds to me like the lender is trying to clean up their portfolio because of getting out of line in the past. They probably have been getting chomped by foreclosures and want to be conservative, but they are the ones who set up this red-hot real estate market by playing fast and loose w/ appraisals, qualifications, ltv, rates, etc.

Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:16:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 10:24:10 PM EDT by Otter-pop]
If you have the time to kill, go ahead and wait for another offer. But just for the badness of it, tell Bippy Twat $161k is good, then reneg at the last possible moment, offering a dog s**t taco to make it up to her. F your realtor. In a seller's market, they are as skeezy as the stereotypical lawyer.
I hate people like that.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:16:47 PM EDT
Wanna rattle the real estate agent's cage?

Tell him/her you're just gonna rent it out if you don't get what you're asking.

BTW, i'm selling mine.Listed it on sat and might have a buyer already...woohooo!
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:26:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
Wanna rattle the real estate agent's cage?

Tell him/her you're just gonna rent it out if you don't get what you're asking.






Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:29:45 PM EDT
I've got two closings this week! Selling Wednesday, buying Thursday. Never believe a Real Estate Broker!! 6% of 5,000 isnt as much as 94% of 5,000. The Broker wnats to sell your house and move on to the the next one. Do what you think, not what the self-serving "salesperson" you hired advises.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:31:51 PM EDT
You probably just went out of thier price range a bit. $30K down is not even 20% so they probably could not get the bank to go that far without a high enough appraisal.

Counter offer them to accept the $161,k with the additional 4 k being held on a personal note payable to you in monthly installments.

You would just be helping them with the down payment for a year or two.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:46:15 PM EDT
He isn't selling unimproved land. He's selling a built house. Who needs to put 20% down on a built house?
Only reason someone would do that is because their income won't match the monthly payments. Since she initially offered 165, we can safely assume that her income is NOT an issue to the bank.
I'd counter back with the original amount. Give them a minimal amount of time to accept then relist. You've got 6 months, right?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 11:00:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 11:20:13 PM EDT by Gunbert]

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
You probably just went out of thier price range a bit. $30K down is not even 20% so they probably could not get the bank to go that far without a high enough appraisal.

Counter offer them to accept the $161,k with the additional 4 k being held on a personal note payable to you in monthly installments.

You would just be helping them with the down payment for a year or two.




Who's price range? She's the one who offered more than we were asking!

I think she knows exactly what she can spend and is just using this as a tactic to leverage my price down.

Here's a little more to the story. In the inital contract she stipulated that she wanted to close on the 15th of July (she made the offer on the 27th of last month) since she needed to move in right away. This is really quick, but we scrambled and got all our stuff out of the house. We're just waiting on the closing to go get a lease on an apartment.

My fiance works for the title company that we are using so I know the status of all the paperwork, and when, exactly, things are filed. The buyer sat on the appraisal numbers for over a week, and, 10 minutes from when I write this, it will become the July 15, with absolutely no chance of closing the deal.

Here is my theory of what happened in a nutshell: The buyer's realtor is good. She knew that the place was priced high, and that it wouldn't appraise for what we were asking. She tells her client to put in a bid that will get her the deal, knowing that she'll get to renegotiate the terms and their offer. What is shifty is that she thought we'd be dumb enough to sign an apartment lease before we actually closed. I think that she was going to use this to twist my arm into taking the new offer at the last minute, since if we didn't we'd be stuck with a mortgage and a rent payment till we did sell the place.

It's just a theory, but that's what I think is going on. I know, I know...
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 12:00:13 AM EDT
If the market is indeed as good as you say, then certainly wait for another/better offer. I don't know how things are there, but in CA, appraisers and the like do not come in until you have an agreed upon deal. After that deal has been agreed upon, if the buyer wants to change the terms of the agreement, then the seller has the option of denying the contract. I would walk away from these buyers no matter what, personally. They seem to have no idea what it means to make a deal, and if they think that it is perfectly ok to change the terms of part of the deal, who knows what else they will try next. Also, I would take their July 15 stipulation as another red flag, since, even though they seemed to need the space immediately, they had no problem dragging a HUGE boulder into the situation. Whatever you do, even if you turn around and sell the house for 161K to someone else...don't deal with them, who knows WHAT they will pull next.

However, do not get petty with the real estate agent. Yes, some are unethical, but most are actually acting on what THEY think is best for you. If their opinion seems faulty, it does not mean they have no consideration for you, it could just simply be wrong. OR..they know something that you don't, but can't tell you for certain legal reasons. I helped my mother out a lot, she's a real estate agent here in Los Angeles, and there were tons of things she could not tell the clients legally, but it colored her advice to her clients. If you truly do not trust/like this agent, get another one, but petty crap serves no purpose, and only serves to increase the growing hostility between real estate agents and sellers/buyers. Sellers/buyers feel that they are always being taken, and real estate agents often have to deal with buyers who use them to find a place or advertise a place for sale, investing a lot of time and effort, then go behind their backs to use someone else, like that neighbors kid who JUST got his license, and want to give him a hand. They as real estate agents deal with just as much scum as sellers/buyers deal with in real estate agents.

If you don't like the guy, get another one, and let the other one know why, so he/she can improve herself and get better, learn.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 12:07:42 AM EDT
Gunbert,

same story here in Reno. Houses sell like there aren't any available anymore tomorrow. Lines in front of the rental/seller offices every weekend.
Prices are going up steeply. If you got 6 months you might be better off waiting a little while before selling - you'll probably make another couple of bucks...
Don't let them twist your arm. It's tough to earn a couple of grand after taxes. Don't throw it away. Time is on your side! Again, if you got 6 months you might want to consider selling a little later... let your home gain in value for another 3 to 4 months. Risky? I don't think so. After all NV is growing like bacterial cultures in the lab... :)

Best of luck.

LRdrvr
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:33:44 AM EDT

What do you guys with experience buying and selling think?

Don't sell through a real estate agent. The last time I sold a house through a realtor, I wound up doing most of the work and the lazy bitch agent collected a fee for doing essentially NOTHING. I figured for about $2500, I could have an inspection and any repairs done, get an appraisal, advertise the home, and offer a few open houses.

I will NEVER, EVER sell a home through a real estate agent again.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 10:29:11 AM EDT
Bump so I can get feedback from the day crew as well.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 10:38:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 10:43:48 AM EDT by ProfessorEvil]
Welcome to the slowing housing market.

If you have an independant appraisal showing value at $165 then you might be able to get that for your place. Otherwise you'll have to wait till someone else offers and goes into contract on it for that amount and their appraiser doesn't go that low. Loan companies are generally quite hesitant to get involved in deals with under-appraised houses. If she's really putting 30k down then it won't be as much of an issue.

If you have 6 months you can wait for another offer. However, ask another agent or two how they feel about the market there and if time on market for houses is going up. If so, then the market is not quite as strong as you've been led to believe.

One other problem with being in your area is that your house won't appreciate very much due to the massive amount of new construction.

My parents are about to sell up there, as well. GOod luck to you.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 11:22:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 11:30:41 AM EDT by Gypsy1972]
Gunbert, take the 161K and run! Never assume anything when it comes to real estate and buyers…
You have a great deal in front of you. I would not wait around for another buyer - especially, if you were getting over market value.
Obviously, you have a great buyer: I say this because the lender did not require her to have a full appraisal done – her credit must be in great shape.
Since you have about six months to work with I would suggest having a two month close (so that she can stay locked in at her current rate); have your agent write in the contract that you get to stay in the house for an additional two months without paying the new owner rent. This gives you about 4 months and if you need an additional 2 months pay her $700 per month to cover her mortgage.


Added-
In regard to the family that also put an offer on your home: I am sure they would not be as flexible on closing dates. Most families want to be in a property before their kids go back to school.

Good Luck!
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 11:26:36 AM EDT
Get a realistic feel for how fast comparable homes in your area are moving. If it is as hot as you say, there's no reason to accept an offer that doesn't meet your expectations.

As for making an offer and retracting, she's within her rights as long as she didn't sign a purchase agreement, though if there is a signed acceptance, she could lose any deposit she puts down.

Regardless, if this is a sign of the type of buyer and buyer's agent you're dealing with, it might be better to drop the offer and avoid the headaches that are sure to follow with a buyer who's less then honest about her intentions.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 11:36:52 AM EDT
This would severely piss me off. I would make a counter offer of $166K, take it or leave it. You've got 6 months and you'll get another buyer. It's her loss, not yours, so screw her.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 11:37:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mute:


As for making an offer and retracting, she's within her rights as long as she didn't sign a purchase agreement, though if there is a signed acceptance, she could lose any deposit she puts down.




Not true.
There is always a way to get out of a contract.
Under the financing section (of the signed purchase agreement) she is able to get out of the deal and keep her Earnest Money.
Reason: The house did not appraise which is contingent upon financing.

Link Posted: 7/15/2003 12:35:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gypsy1972:
Gunbert, take the 161K and run! Never assume anything when it comes to real estate and buyers…
You have a great deal in front of you. I would not wait around for another buyer - especially, if you were getting over market value.
Obviously, you have a great buyer: I say this because the lender did not require her to have a full appraisal done – her credit must be in great shape.
Since you have about six months to work with I would suggest having a two month close (so that she can stay locked in at her current rate); have your agent write in the contract that you get to stay in the house for an additional two months without paying the new owner rent. This gives you about 4 months and if you need an additional 2 months pay her $700 per month to cover her mortgage.


Added-
In regard to the family that also put an offer on your home: I am sure they would not be as flexible on closing dates. Most families want to be in a property before their kids go back to school.

Good Luck!




Did you actually read what I posted before, or did you just skim through it? SHE WANTS TO MVOVE IN IMMEDIATELY! She asked for the July 15 closing, not us. She is the one who offered $165... we were asking for $164. She's the one who dicked around till the close date passed.


I know it's more complicated than this but here's an example.

I have a car for sale. I want $5000 for it. The market is hot for this kind of car, and you really want it so you offer $5200, just to make sure you can get it over other offers I might recieve. I accept your offer and you go to the bank to get a loan for $5000. You already have $200 cash so you don't need to borrow the full amount. But the bank says the car isn't worth $5200, only $5000... so now you get skittish and contemplate backing out of the deal, even though you have the money and were prepared to pay more than I was asking.. After the initial agreement was made you then come back and say "I know I offered you $5200, but the bank says it ain't worth that much, so now I'll only give you $5000."

I'd tell someone who tried that with anything other than a house to go fuck themself, if for nothing other than the principal of reniging on a deal.

She has the option to back out of the deal and not lose her ernest money, which is fine with me... but don't insult me by trying to dick around with the price after we made a deal.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:02:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Did you actually read what I posted before, or did you just skim through it? SHE WANTS TO MVOVE IN IMMEDIATELY! She asked for the July 15 closing, not us. She is the one who offered $165... we were asking for $164. She's the one who dicked around till the close date passed.







Actually, I did read it. However, I guess I missed the part in your original post about the CD being July 15th; and the buyer wanting to move in ASAP.
I also realize that she is the one that offered $165K.
My point: On paper she appeared to be a good buyer (credit).
Poor Credit is a huge deal breaker in RE. Many times sellers are not aware of it until 3 days before the house is to close and have to start all over again.
Plus, the BS that a buyer is pre-approved; is just that, BS.
So, why did you not wait until your new home was ready for you to move into before you listed? This would be what I would do if I could afford it...or I would have taken out a bridge loan in conjunction with a construction loan.
Wow, you are really pissed off...
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:17:32 PM EDT
No I'm not pissed at all, I just think that what is happening is bullshit.


Did I hear you right? You think I should wait till my new house is done before I list this one? Maybe you're just a glutton for stress, but I'm not. I want this one wrapped up long before I have to worry about closing on the new one. You must have a lot more money laying around than I do!

I'd be happy at this point for the buyer to have bad credit; I'd get a check from the escrow company for her $3000 earnest money. Then the next guy might get the house for $161K.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:21:35 PM EDT
If NV contracts for RE are anything like CA's then it's doubtful you'd get the earnest deposit for someone having bad credit.

If you're getting responses as quick as you said you were, then I don't think you'd have any problem dumping this person and getting a serious buyer.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:24:30 PM EDT
OK, I'm a Realtor in Maryland. So some of this may not apply in your state.

Quite simply, you are screwed. The agent's have done their jobs, since the buyer's agent got a quick closing with a higher than asking price to close the deal for their buyers. Your agent got more than what you were comfortable with as a price for the property. The appraiser has not kept up with the times and is hired by the bank, and he is the one that came in low. This happens all of the time. The ball is in your court unless the buyer can pay the difference in CASH that will not be equity in the home. You stated they were putting $30K down, more than likely they are putting $32K to have 20% so they don't have to pay mortgage insurance. If the house appraises for four thousand lower than sales price, then the buyer now must pay mortgage insurance. These financing terms should have been listed in the contract along with the contingency that the property has to appraise for the sales price.

Now that you have knowledge of the fact, you must disclose to any new buyer the appraised value of your home. If you do not, they can sue you to recover their costs that they incur while applying for a loan, survey, appraisal, etc. once they find out it appraised below value prior to their contract with you.

So, you are currently in a negotiation phase. You can stick to the $165K and put the ball back in the buyers' court hoping they will absorb the cost difference from the original terms, and buy the property. You know they are interested, need to move in as soon as possible, can ultimately afford the home, and have already spent money and time on the loan process. The downside is that if they walk, you will be stuck with putting your house back on the market, going through the whole process again, and having to disclose the appraised value which will likely mean you won't even get $164K, and will likely end up in this situation again. The Buyer's agent should have also informed the buyer of these facts.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:36:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunbert:
No I'm not pissed at all, I just think that what is happening is bullshit.


Did I hear you right? You think I should wait till my new house is done before I list this one? Maybe you're just a glutton for stress, but I'm not. I want this one wrapped up long before I have to worry about closing on the new one. You must have a lot more money laying around than I do!

I'd be happy at this point for the buyer to have bad credit; I'd get a check from the escrow company for her $3000 earnest money. Then the next guy might get the house for $161K.



Actually, you would not get the earnest money from a purchaser who had bad credit and had to back out of the deal because of it. Real estate purchase agreements have a financing section. Everything is contingent upon financing; which includes not getting loan approval (due to credit issues). I was a witness in court over this (I represented the seller). My seller was not granted the earnest money and lost. BTW: This deal wasted about 3 months of my seller’s time and mine. We could not put the house back on the market until after the ruling.
As far as your financial situation…I misunderstood your statement: “…we're in no real hurry and don't need to sell this one right away. We figured the higher price would keep it on the market for a while.”
And no, I would not be in a position to carry 2 mortgages – which is why I would get a bridge loan.

Also, I have been in real estate for many years as an appraiser and a realtor. I guess I get tired of people blaming agents…not all agents are “slime-balls”.
I am very sympathetic and ethical with my clients and have incredible loyalty from them.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 3:29:32 PM EDT
I really have nothing against agents per se, I'm just getting the vibe that mine wants to be done with this and move on... Less work for him, obviously. Can't say I blame him.

What we've worked out is to have another apraisal done by someone my realtor hired. The consensus seems to be that the appraiser can adjust the numbers a bit, and we're counting on a bit more favorable number this time.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 3:46:15 PM EDT
gunman0, I'm not really screwed, right? I just have to negotiate with the buyer, right?


Let me ask you this... if one of your clients made an offer of $1000 more than ask price on a place, and the appraisal came back lower than ask, would you drop your offer price to just the appraisal or would you offer appraisal price + the $1000 over ask?

Just curious how you would handle this situation as if you were either my realtor or the buyers realtor.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 4:25:57 PM EDT
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but my daughter was the youngest licensed real estate appraiser in the state of California (at 18) and had worked for one five years before that. She says that any appraiser who didn't actually go look at the property did not do an appraisal as required by any lender she knows. Anyone can look at the multiple listing and get "comps". That is a far cry from an actual appraisal.

Something is wrong with this story somewhere.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 4:46:59 PM EDT

First of all: You do not have to disclose a previous appraisal on a property unless it is performed for a government-funded loan (FHA/VA). If it is a government- backed loan, one has to use the same appraisal for 6 months even if a buyer changes. Conversely, many of us in the business have had them over-ruled.
Secondly: It is against the law for a real estate agent to hire an appraiser for a listing/client - An agent can lose their license regardless of the state their license was issued in.
Lastly, most lenders do not require PMI if you have 15% down; and a good majority that I work with do not require PMI with only 10% down.
OK, I will now leave this thread…I am getting the vibe that Ryan is through with my advice.
Best of wishes for your new home.

Link Posted: 7/15/2003 4:55:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but my daughter was the youngest licensed real estate appraiser in the state of California (at 18) and had worked for one five years before that. She says that any appraiser who didn't actually go look at the property did not do an appraisal as required by any lender she knows. Anyone can look at the multiple listing and get "comps". That is a far cry from an actual appraisal.

Something is wrong with this story somewhere.



This used to be the case. However, depending on credit and the type of loan, now there is a drive by appraisal of the property or even a “desk-top” review of a property. This is now the current trend with lenders that reduces the cost for purchasers and those wanting to refinance their properties. When used for a new purchase the buyer has an impeccable credit rating. The two leading companies (out-source) that offer this service are AMCO and The First American Corporation.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 4:57:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gypsy1972:

OK, I will now leave this thread…I am getting the vibe that Ryan is through with my advice.
Best of wishes for your new home.




Sorry if I made you feel unwelcome or that your advice was unappreciated. I know nothing about this stuff so I am just trying to learn from as many people as I can.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 5:00:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but my daughter was the youngest licensed real estate appraiser in the state of California (at 18) and had worked for one five years before that. She says that any appraiser who didn't actually go look at the property did not do an appraisal as required by any lender she knows. Anyone can look at the multiple listing and get "comps". That is a far cry from an actual appraisal.

Something is wrong with this story somewhere.




This made me raise my eyebrows as well. How can the guy appraise anything if he never sees it in person? But this is exactly how it went.

The second appraiser was just here a little while ago. My understanding is that the buyer does not have to allow a second appraisal, but we requested it and they apparently allowed it.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 7:19:53 PM EDT
Just counter with an offer of 163k & tell her that is bottom line. That is how it went when I just bought mine. We offered low & they came back with somethin in between & we took it. It's the way the game is played.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 8:41:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Medic08:
Just counter with an offer of 163k & tell her that is bottom line. That is how it went when I just bought mine. We offered low & they came back with somethin in between & we took it. It's the way the game is played.




Uh... they already offered $165K. But thank you for explaining the way the game is played.

Reading comprehension is a lost art!
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:04:33 PM EDT
So what happened?
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 10:26:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FireControlman: So what happened?
View Quote
Man, I'd forgotten all about this thread! We ended up giving it up for $163K, $161K for the house (as far as the bank is concerned), and another 2k cash that she handed me to get her keys. Funny, it still irks me after a few months have passed. Maybe real estate is an enigma, but I still don't see how you can offer some amount of money for something, agree with the seller on that price, then come back and say "nevermind, we don't agree that it's worth it, so here's a lower offer." WTF is with that? I'm just glad its over, and we'll be doing the walkthrough on the new house on Jan 14!
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 10:00:26 AM EDT
Check the offer letter and see if it doesnt have a dislaimer. Most offers will have fine print that the offer is only good if the home is OKed by a home inspection and/or apraised for full amount. Live and learn. I think you are right about the buyers agent. She knew what she was doing. You still did good for a first house. Hell my first house was $50,000.00 Thats just fifty thousand,not even a third of what your first house was. I did keep mine and rent it out.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:43:17 AM EDT
It's all a game. The "appraisal" was their way of trying to get a lower price. You could have accepted, rejected or counter-offered. That's real estate.
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