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Posted: 6/16/2014 9:15:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2014 9:52:33 AM EDT by Chuy123]
Garage door opener Issue. Primary windings showing an open. Confirmed using a scope that one of the primary windings is busted. 120V is at the pins but no output. Pic below. I can;t find this anywhere online. Maybe the power of GD can help me.



Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:20:26 AM EDT
Continuity check acros the pins of the primary show an open?

Did you check the continuity of the secondary?

What is the load of the device it drives?

Transformers are common and dirt.


Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:32:41 AM EDT
What is secondary output voltage?

How many watts?

Should be easy to find if you know these things.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:37:17 AM EDT
That exact transformer is an OEM product made by Tyco. It is unlikely you will be able to get the same model unless you find it from a surplus place.

On the other hand, if you know the voltage of the secondary and the anticipated load, finding a substitute should be trivial.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:42:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:
Continuity check acros the pins of the primary show an open?

Did you check the continuity of the secondary?

What is the load of the device it drives?

Transformers are common and dirt.


View Quote



Secondary shows 5 ohms.

Not sure on the load. The transformer goes into the logic board which is driven on 24v.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:42:53 AM EDT
Take it to granger.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:43:30 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Topper1:
What is secondary output voltage?

How many watts?

Should be easy to find if you know these things.
View Quote



Secondary voltage should be 24Vac

The output feeds into a diode bridge and into a 220uF 50V cap. I assume that circuit there converts it to 24VDC.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:54:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:58:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History



Yep, I only wish. Can't afford a new garage door opener now. I am thinking of using this in lieu of the PCB mount one.


Link Posted: 6/16/2014 10:42:29 AM EDT
At a loss since I can't find any info at all for the OEM transformer.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 11:52:29 AM EDT
This is what I found so far online.


Get a 24 V transformer (it is probably not more than this) and connect its
primary to a Variac and its secondary to the opener. Slowly increase the
variac until everything works. (check every volt or so from 5 to 24).
Measure the output voltage of the transformer, add 10-20%, you've probably
got the secondary rating. If it is near a standard value like 12 or 24,
this is most likely correct.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 11:58:05 AM EDT
24VAC is going to be ~33VDC once rectified.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 12:17:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
24VAC is going to be ~33VDC once rectified.
View Quote



Yep. So I need like a 120V primary and a 18v secondary
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 12:39:30 PM EDT
Probably dropping through a regulator or zener rail. Usually a regulator in a circuit like that.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 12:41:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chuy123:



Yep. So I need like a 120V primary and a 18v secondary
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
24VAC is going to be ~33VDC once rectified.



Yep. So I need like a 120V primary and a 18v secondary

Eh, it probably uses 24vac and regulates it on the board.
I just mentioned that so you did not try to get by with a 24VDC power supply.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 12:59:53 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:

Eh, it probably uses 24vac and regulates it on the board.
I just mentioned that so you did not try to get by with a 24VDC power supply.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
24VAC is going to be ~33VDC once rectified.



Yep. So I need like a 120V primary and a 18v secondary

Eh, it probably uses 24vac and regulates it on the board.
I just mentioned that so you did not try to get by with a 24VDC power supply.



Im gonna try using the Variac and see where the opener operates.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 1:01:47 PM EDT
Look for a fuse on the board and thst will tell you the max current for the secondary,
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 1:09:02 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpanishInquisition:
Look for a fuse on the board and thst will tell you the max current for the secondary,
View Quote



Only fuse it has on the board is a 10 amp.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 1:12:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:
Continuity check acros the pins of the primary show an open?
View Quote


If so, quite likely that it was overloaded, and the embedded thermal fuse blew.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 2:53:56 PM EDT
40 VA will get you pretty close to that 10 amps that the fuse indicates.

Make sure all the gears and tracks are lubed. If the thermal fuse in the original blew, it may be because it was working too hard.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 2:56:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
24VAC is going to be ~33VDC once rectified.
View Quote



If they didn't cost-reduce the full-wave rectifier out of the thing and just dropped in a diode or two. Cheap bastards are like that.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:06:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:23:02 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By krpind:
http://www.te.com/catalog/pn/en/1611535-2?RQPN=7143C

Looks like that specific one is OEM only or something.

I would just get a 50va transformer and replace it.
View Quote



yeah but if I exceed what the logic board is looking for ( 24V ) then I may mess it up.

Here is a pic of the rectifier circuit.

Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:29:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chuy123:



yeah but if I exceed what the logic board is looking for ( 24V ) then I may mess it up.

Here is a pic of the rectifier circuit.

http://i61.tinypic.com/iw84uh.jpg
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Originally Posted By krpind:
http://www.te.com/catalog/pn/en/1611535-2?RQPN=7143C

Looks like that specific one is OEM only or something.

I would just get a 50va transformer and replace it.



yeah but if I exceed what the logic board is looking for ( 24V ) then I may mess it up.

Here is a pic of the rectifier circuit.

http://i61.tinypic.com/iw84uh.jpg


That is a full wave rectifier.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:29:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:32:13 PM EDT
what about this?


Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:34:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:35:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:37:49 PM EDT
Hmmm.. the plot sickens.

I see 4 diodes in one area, a couple more in another, and more through hole lands than a single winding transformer would account for. The transformer may be putting out multiple voltages on the secondary side.

OP, can you look at the PC traces on the secondary side of the board to confirm or deny?
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:38:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By krpind:



That is 20VAC. You said it was 24VAC?

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Originally Posted By krpind:



That is 20VAC. You said it was 24VAC?




Logic board drives off of 24V DC. Im not 100% sure what the secondary A/C voltage is supposed to be. But it seems that every Genie transformer out there is 20 V A/C at the secondary. Maybe this model is the same.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:40:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:


If so, quite likely that it was overloaded, and the embedded thermal fuse blew.
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:
Continuity check acros the pins of the primary show an open?


If so, quite likely that it was overloaded, and the embedded thermal fuse blew.



True. OP, see if you can unwind the tape covering the primary wires. Sometimes the thermal fuse is added after the transformer is assembled and is accessible by cutting away the tape. If you bypass it you will be able to measure the secondary output.
I'm not a fan of the variac method since under voltage can sometimes be more destructive than over voltage.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:41:14 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpanishInquisition:
Hmmm.. the plot sickens.

I see 4 diodes in one area, a couple more in another, and more through hole lands than a single winding transformer would account for. The transformer may be putting out multiple voltages on the secondary side.

OP, can you look at the PC traces on the secondary side of the board to confirm or deny?
View Quote


So the 2 center top holes are the secondary

The 2 center bottom are the primary. The other holes are for mounting / ground.



Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:42:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bluetick357:
Take it to granger.
View Quote



This.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:46:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2014 3:55:21 PM EDT by ILoveGauge]

24VAC 40VA is your typical transformer used in HVAC. Cheap and easy to find.



Originally Posted By SpanishInquisition:
40 VA will get you pretty close to that 10 amps that the fuse indicates.
View Quote


24V @ 40VA = 1.67 A. You're not even close.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:47:43 PM EDT
Really need the exact specs from the transformer. If its 115v to 24v I have 50 of them. These are a real common transformer in the HVAC field.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 3:50:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARs4EVER:
Really need the exact specs from the transformer. If its 115v to 24v I have 50 of them. These are a real common transformer in the HVAC field.
View Quote



yeah, thats the problem. It's a genie proprietary part and there are no specs for it out there. Ive spent all day searching.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 4:49:21 PM EDT
Does anyone here have a Genie Excelerator ISD series grage door opener? If so can you take a reading what your secondary is outputting on your transformer?
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 6:55:11 PM EDT
Tried a 16.5vAC 40VA transformer I had at the house. While it was enough power to get the backlight at the keypad and the trip sensors lit up it wasn't enough to drive the logic board or the motor.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 7:23:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
24VAC is going to be ~33VDC once rectified.
View Quote



No it's not. Only if you rectify it, let a filter cap charge up with no load, maybe. As soon as you load it, it's back down to RMS.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 8:29:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2014 8:32:18 PM EDT by wildearp]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chuy123:



yeah, thats the problem. It's a genie proprietary part and there are no specs for it out there. Ive spent all day searching.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Originally Posted By ARs4EVER:
Really need the exact specs from the transformer. If its 115v to 24v I have 50 of them. These are a real common transformer in the HVAC field.



yeah, thats the problem. It's a genie proprietary part and there are no specs for it out there. Ive spent all day searching.
Did you call them and see if they sell the entire board? My Genie, back a house ago, had a two year warranty. Then sent me a free board because mine had a stuck relay. Sears repair depot may even have the board in stock.

Funny, mine was a screw drive xcellerator. I never installed the new board....too bad I gave it to the guy who bought my opener.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 3:27:25 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wildearp:
Did you call them and see if they sell the entire board? My Genie, back a house ago, had a two year warranty. Then sent me a free board because mine had a stuck relay. Sears repair depot may even have the board in stock.

Funny, mine was a screw drive xcellerator. I never installed the new board....too bad I gave it to the guy who bought my opener.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wildearp:
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Originally Posted By ARs4EVER:
Really need the exact specs from the transformer. If its 115v to 24v I have 50 of them. These are a real common transformer in the HVAC field.



yeah, thats the problem. It's a genie proprietary part and there are no specs for it out there. Ive spent all day searching.
Did you call them and see if they sell the entire board? My Genie, back a house ago, had a two year warranty. Then sent me a free board because mine had a stuck relay. Sears repair depot may even have the board in stock.

Funny, mine was a screw drive xcellerator. I never installed the new board....too bad I gave it to the guy who bought my opener.



This opener is 10 + years old................
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 5:49:01 AM EDT
genie opener

buy new end of story. Transformers burn up usually from another issue. You can find a transformer, put it in and burn it up also.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 5:59:52 AM EDT


You're welcome. Crappy plot and excessive CGI not included.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 6:47:15 AM EDT
Found a way around the transformer.

I got a 24VDC 8A power supply that is adjustable between 22.5 and 28.5VDC. Plugged the 120VAC into the pads of the circuit board that provide 120VAC and then took the ground lead to ground of the board. Then took the 24V lead into one leg of the rectifier circuit.

I now have 24V at the lead that goes into the logic board. It's a bit crude and a brute force way to get it to work but I spent $0 on it. Next will be to snug it all down and see if it works tonight.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 7:45:34 AM EDT
C1 probably filters the output of the bridge(4 diodes) , other capacitor filters output of volt rgulator U1. U1 won't provide much current, probably just control circuitry.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 7:58:08 AM EDT
And all this time, I've just been replacing the GDO when it stops working

Since I can't even comprehend what you guys are talking about, I'll just wish the OP good luck
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:40:02 AM EDT
here is what I wound up going with.


Link Posted: 6/17/2014 2:17:00 PM EDT
right there on the board are relays. The two little black boxes. What is the voltage required to make them work?
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 2:28:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARs4EVER:
right there on the board are relays. The two little black boxes. What is the voltage required to make them work?
View Quote



24VDC
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 2:30:56 PM EDT
Here is a step down transformer:

Link Posted: 6/17/2014 2:46:08 PM EDT
you look to be on track to me.
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