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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/19/2012 9:39:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 12:35:37 PM EST by InfiniteGrim]
I'm been wanting a Springfield MC Operator for awhile and they are around $110-1200 online and out of stock everywhere.

LGS, has a Springfield lightweight Operator with Trijicon night sights for $1059 New. Is this the same thing as the MC operator, but just black instead of OD? Is $1059 a good price?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 9:46:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 9:47:38 AM EST by JBlitzen]
By the specs, the lightweight is 8 oz lighter due to an aluminum frame, has different grips, a match grade bushing, and a 2 piece guide rod vs the MC's 1.

Given my hatred of olive drab firearms and the lighter weight, I'd go with the lightweight, particularly since it has night sights on it.

Though I went with a kimber for a variety of reasons, most visibly that I didn't need a rail, it had front checkering on the grip, factory night sights, and was bead blasted or something to soften edges and snaggy parts.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 9:53:18 AM EST
Any negatives associated with the leightweight's aluminum frame?

Also is the guide rod something I can change? As in is it compatible with 1 piece guide rods?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 9:57:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 9:57:32 AM EST by JBlitzen]
A lightweight pistol will always have harsher recoil than a heavier but otherwise identical pistol. On the other hand, it'll be easier to carry, and even a light full size 1911 should handle recoil pretty well.

No idea about the guide rod. I suggest you ask in the Springfield forum under the Handgun tab.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:05:45 AM EST
I'd hold out for the steel frame personally.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:07:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 10:09:31 AM EST by dan1802]
aluminum in a 1911 just bugs me.
if im going to go lightweight I just carry one of my glocks.
if im feeling extra manly, i carry my fullsize, all steel 1911
aluminum is for foil








they are fine, they wear and loosen up alittle faster than steel but you wont shoot enough rounds through it to notice the difference.
not sure about the guide rod.
I do prefer steel frames but to each his own.

You never stated what your going to use the firearm for..if your going to carry it..consider the alloy frame..if not...stick it out for the steel
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:08:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Any negatives associated with the leightweight's aluminum frame?

Also is the guide rod something I can change? As in is it compatible with 1 piece guide rods?


ive had no problems with the frame or guide rods.

i love mine.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:10:19 AM EST
Yes. It will not last as long.

A good forged 1911 frame and slide and you're looking at 200,000 plus rounds.

And never take advice from a guy who thinks Kimber's are the shit.

Emory
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:10:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By bluetick357:
I'd hold out for the steel frame personally.

This. I tend to experience a good bit more recoil/muzzle climb when shooting my friends 1911's side by side with my G21. I would have no desire to own a lighter weight 1911. YMMV.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:11:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 10:13:27 AM EST by ken_mays]
Have no fears about the AL lightweight frame on the Springfield. If it should ever crack, it will be addressed under their lifetime warranty.

If it's the 5" gun, I say go for it. I really like the way a 5" aluminum framed 1911 shoots. It's a good deal less snappy than the shortened Commander-style. The guide rod can be replaced easily, it's one of the few parts that really tend to drop in. I like the Kimber/BUL 5" one piece rods.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:11:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:14:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
there have been longevity issues with allumiunum frames.


is there any numbers for comparison? Is such a thing covrred in springfields warranty? I picked jt up nd it was nice an it was VERY light.

I dont have a carry gun, but for the net 3 years that's not an issue. I m mainly looking for a nice .45 for my 21st birthday.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:15:02 AM EST
Why no USP 45 or HK45 instead?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:15:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By bluetick357:
I'd hold out for the steel frame personally.


Listen to this advice.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:16:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By bg10:
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Any negatives associated with the leightweight's aluminum frame?

Also is the guide rod something I can change? As in is it compatible with 1 piece guide rods?


ive had no problems with the frame or guide rods.

i love mine.


I haven't found a single person say they don't like theirs in my googling
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:19:20 AM EST
I had one and it was nice. jsut could not get used to the 1911 safety. the one thing that was interesting was that it uses a ramped barrel. had no failures when i owned it
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:19:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Scott_In_OKC:
Originally Posted By bluetick357:
I'd hold out for the steel frame personally.


Listen to this advice.


Id hold out for steel too



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:25:51 AM EST
I have a LW Champion Operator and I love it. I have shot it side by side with a full sized steel springers and mine has less felt recoil, the two piece guide rod really soaks up the recoil well. They are good guns and a couple thousand rounds in it shows no wear. I believe the frame is anodized and the surface is hard as hell, the slide is Armory coat or something similar. It carries really well, easier than my XD.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:29:11 AM EST
For carry, I prefer the light weight frame to steel. With proper grip, you won't notice the difference when firing. There is said to be a difference in service life between a steel and aluminum frame, but I've shot alot through both fullsize and compact frames, and never saw any wear or damage. I think the reputation comes from the "tropical" frames some US guns were retrofitted with for military service.
The guide rod should drop in.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:37:46 AM EST
I own a MC Operator and I've handled the LW Operator. To me, they seemed like two completely different guns. I too don't really like the idea of an aluminum frame 1911. Normally other aluminum framed guns have steel locking blocks and feed ramps. No idea if this is an issue or not. Still I can imagine that the light weight frame will increase muzzle flip.

My MC Operator has always functioned well. Even when I've swapped a ton of parts on it. (Hard not to tinker)

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 11:13:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Salmonaxe:
I own a MC Operator and I've handled the LW Operator. To me, they seemed like two completely different guns. I too don't really like the idea of an aluminum frame 1911. Normally other aluminum framed guns have steel locking blocks and feed ramps. No idea if this is an issue or not. Still I can imagine that the light weight frame will increase muzzle flip.

My MC Operator has always functioned well. Even when I've swapped a ton of parts on it. (Hard not to tinker)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/salmonaxe/Osprey45cal_1911.jpg


A 1911's locking lugs are on the top of the barrel and interface with the slide. These will be steel. The feed ramp will be on the throated bbl, also steel. The link, steel. Pin, steel.
How could lightening the part that goes in your hand give it more muzzle flip? The slide is steel.
Mine didn't seem to point any different than my steel frame guns.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 11:18:07 AM EST
I have a standard SA lightweight 'loaded' and after many thousands of rounds with it (after replacing all the internals with tool steel) I can say there's no sign of frame battering and it is dead-nuts reliable and I'd have -0- issue buying another. I strongly prefer the reduced weight for carry. YMMV.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:57:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By bluetick357:
I'd hold out for the steel frame personally.


Another vote for 'wait for a steel-framed one'.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:58:02 PM EST
I have the LW Champion and it has run flawless and is very accurate. I have roughly 1500 through it. I did find out with 8 round Chip Power mags a weak recoil spring will keep the slide from going all the way foward when reloading. I found this out the hard way during a competition one night. The fix was to slap the back of the slide after putting in a new mag.


SA told me those should be changed every 750 rounds and run about $40. I found the rail made in a PITA to find a holster.

Not mine:


Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:03:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I have a standard SA lightweight 'loaded' and after many thousands of rounds with it (after replacing all the internals with tool steel) I can say there's no sign of frame battering and it is dead-nuts reliable and I'd have -0- issue buying another. I strongly prefer the reduced weight for carry. YMMV.



I suppose that's a good choice for carrying. I was just thinking of the 'shooting' part.

Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
I have the LW Champion and it has run flawless and is very accurate. I have roughly 1500 through it. I did find out with 8 round Chip Power mags a weak recoil spring will keep the slide from going all the way foward when reloading. I found this out the hard way during a competition one night. The fix was to slap the back of the slide after putting in a new mag.


SA told me those should be changed every 750 rounds and run about $40. I found the rail made in a PITA to find a holster.

Not mine:
http://media.gunup.s3.amazonaws.com/handgun_images/images/PX9115LP/PX9115LP_1.jpg



Where'd you find a left-hand version?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:10:09 PM EST
Buy a Colt.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:17:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By gearjammer351:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I have a standard SA lightweight 'loaded' and after many thousands of rounds with it (after replacing all the internals with tool steel) I can say there's no sign of frame battering and it is dead-nuts reliable and I'd have -0- issue buying another. I strongly prefer the reduced weight for carry. YMMV.



I suppose that's a good choice for carrying. I was just thinking of the 'shooting' part.


Did you note the part in bold?

The black finish on the slide started wearing and flaking off about the time I got it (well used from another member here) but finish is purely cosmetic on an aluminum frame.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:18:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By xd341:
the two piece guide rod really soaks up the recoil well.


Huh? Please explain how THAT works.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:02:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By ALBOB2:
Originally Posted By xd341:
the two piece guide rod really soaks up the recoil well.


Huh? Please explain how THAT works.


from experience the compound spring seems to make a difference. my SA feels a lot softer than my Kimber.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:04:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By gearjammer351:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I have a standard SA lightweight 'loaded' and after many thousands of rounds with it (after replacing all the internals with tool steel) I can say there's no sign of frame battering and it is dead-nuts reliable and I'd have -0- issue buying another. I strongly prefer the reduced weight for carry. YMMV.



I suppose that's a good choice for carrying. I was just thinking of the 'shooting' part.

Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
I have the LW Champion and it has run flawless and is very accurate. I have roughly 1500 through it. I did find out with 8 round Chip Power mags a weak recoil spring will keep the slide from going all the way foward when reloading. I found this out the hard way during a competition one night. The fix was to slap the back of the slide after putting in a new mag.


SA told me those should be changed every 750 rounds and run about $40. I found the rail made in a PITA to find a holster.

Not mine:
http://media.gunup.s3.amazonaws.com/handgun_images/images/PX9115LP/PX9115LP_1.jpg



Where'd you find a left-hand version?


it's only for us speceal tire un operators
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:13:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 3:14:05 PM EST by sporter]
The LW Operator is a nice pistol. Lifetime warranty if need be. The barrel has it's own feed ramp, no worries.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:44:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By gearjammer351:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I have a standard SA lightweight 'loaded' and after many thousands of rounds with it (after replacing all the internals with tool steel) I can say there's no sign of frame battering and it is dead-nuts reliable and I'd have -0- issue buying another. I strongly prefer the reduced weight for carry. YMMV.



I suppose that's a good choice for carrying. I was just thinking of the 'shooting' part.


Did you note the part in bold?

The black finish on the slide started wearing and flaking off about the time I got it (well used from another member here) but finish is purely cosmetic on an aluminum frame.



I did see that you shoot it, but I find a little extra weight on a .45 makes it more comfy to shoot; that's what I was getting at.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:05:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 4:12:16 PM EST by AZ_Sky]
I have two 1911's that are steel frames (Springfield Armory) and two that are aluminum (Kimber).
I enjoy shooting the steel framed guns more because of the reduced recoil, I enjoy carrying the aluminum framed guns more because they are lighter.
Because of lessor recoil I seem to be able to shoot my steel framed 1911's more accurately/quicker than my AL framed 1911's.
My "trust my life to it" gun is my Springfield Armory steel framed full size 1911.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:20:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By gearjammer351:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By gearjammer351:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I have a standard SA lightweight 'loaded' and after many thousands of rounds with it (after replacing all the internals with tool steel) I can say there's no sign of frame battering and it is dead-nuts reliable and I'd have -0- issue buying another. I strongly prefer the reduced weight for carry. YMMV.



I suppose that's a good choice for carrying. I was just thinking of the 'shooting' part.


Did you note the part in bold?

The black finish on the slide started wearing and flaking off about the time I got it (well used from another member here) but finish is purely cosmetic on an aluminum frame.



I did see that you shoot it, but I find a little extra weight on a .45 makes it more comfy to shoot; that's what I was getting at.


Ok, that makes sense.

FWIW I have a steel-framed 1911, an older SA with the blocky frame contours, I added a tungsten guide rod to it to make it heavier and there's no doubt it's easier to shoot, and shoot quickly, but at self-defense ranges the difference is slight.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:23:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:
Originally Posted By Salmonaxe:
I own a MC Operator and I've handled the LW Operator. To me, they seemed like two completely different guns. I too don't really like the idea of an aluminum frame 1911. Normally other aluminum framed guns have steel locking blocks and feed ramps. No idea if this is an issue or not. Still I can imagine that the light weight frame will increase muzzle flip.

My MC Operator has always functioned well. Even when I've swapped a ton of parts on it. (Hard not to tinker)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/salmonaxe/Osprey45cal_1911.jpg


A 1911's locking lugs are on the top of the barrel and interface with the slide. These will be steel. The feed ramp will be on the throated bbl, also steel. The link, steel. Pin, steel.
How could lightening the part that goes in your hand give it more muzzle flip? The slide is steel.
Mine didn't seem to point any different than my steel frame guns.


The 1911 uses a link that when it locks presses down on the pin portion of the slide stop, which is held in place by the frame. (There also is a lug on the bottom of the barrel that rests against this same pin in the fully locked position.) I could see a potential for making this this pin hole out of round. The normal 45 ACP 1911 has a 2 part feed ramp that includes a portion of the feedramp as part of the frame. (The other being part of the barrel.) Still these parts could be well within the stress tolerances when made out of aluminum. That's why I stated that I didn't know if it was an issue or not, just that other designs do not follow suit. Still aluminum tends to fatigue and fracture quicker than steel.

Inertia would be the the reason for more muzzle flip. The aluminum frame would have less mass and offer less resistance to moving during recoil. Muzzle flipping upwards due to the center of the wrist being the fulcrum point, which is considerably lower than barrel. (Force is traveling in a rearward direction down the center of the barrel.)

This is why people add mass to glocks in the form of slugplugs, magwells, and guide rods.

In regards to the slide's mass (and the slide to frame mass ratio), I'm not really sure how much of an effect it actually has on muzzle flip (Besides adding to the overall weight of the pistol). Also if it was fixed in place and didn't move during recoil, would the muzzle flip be more, less or the same? These would questions for someone with a greater understanding of physics.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:37:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By Salmonaxe:

The normal 45 ACP 1911 has a 2 part feed ramp that includes a portion of the feedramp as part of the frame. (The other being part of the barrel.) Still these parts could be well within the stress tolerances when made out of aluminum. That's why I stated that I didn't know if it was an issue or not, just that other designs do not follow suit. Still aluminum tends to fatigue and fracture quicker than steel.
.


While I believe that Kimber uses normal 1911 barrel/feedramp setup in their aluminum-framed 1911s, SA uses a ramped barrel setup where the entire feedramp is part of the barrel on an extension that fits into a cutout in the frame. In other words, feedramp wear issues are nonexistent on SA lightweights.

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 12:33:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 12:35:55 PM EST by InfiniteGrim]
Really Shitty cell picture...



There is a coupon inside allowing me to buy up to 10 7rd mags for $12 each or 10rd mags for $17 each Plus I need me some of those VZ grips!
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:18:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 2:18:40 PM EST by JBlitzen]
Nice. Get Wilson mags if you want it to work.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:24:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 2:28:25 PM EST by grynblk]
Congrats on your new gun! I've got one and I love it. I was able to pick mine up at a local shop for $823 about two years ago. I had Tucker make me a holster for mine since the added rail makes it difficult to find holsters.


Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:32:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Scott_In_OKC:
Originally Posted By bluetick357:
I'd hold out for the steel frame personally.


Listen to this advice.


Agree,
My worry isn't with the gun wearing out, the factory would take care of that.
I shoot better with a steel gun. It's that simple.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:43:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By JBlitzen:
Nice. Get Wilson mags if you want it to work.


So are the Springfield mags no good? I can get the 7rd or 10rd ones for $12 or $17 respectively.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:46:14 PM EST
Wilson 47D are about the best mags to get.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:55:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Originally Posted By JBlitzen:
Nice. Get Wilson mags if you want it to work.


So are the Springfield mags no good? I can get the 7rd or 10rd ones for $12 or $17 respectively.


Everyone loves the Wilsons, and I have a few, but personally I've had zero problems with my Springfield Mags.

Nor, for that matter, have I had any issue with my Chip McCormicks. Just stay away from the no-names, IMO.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:57:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Originally Posted By JBlitzen:
Nice. Get Wilson mags if you want it to work.


So are the Springfield mags no good? I can get the 7rd or 10rd ones for $12 or $17 respectively.


Chip McCormick POWER MAGS are the best choice. They work and they do not cost as much as the 47D's. I believe the springs are better in the POWER MAGS as well.


Shooting star mags are also good range mags. They are even less expensive.

Carry with the POWER MAGS though.

Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:29:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Originally Posted By JBlitzen:
Nice. Get Wilson mags if you want it to work.


So are the Springfield mags no good? I can get the 7rd or 10rd ones for $12 or $17 respectively.


SA mags are just metalforms.

All of my 1911s run perfectly with them. If yours does not, sure, changing mags might overcome the problem, but it doesn't FIX the problem.

A properly set up 1911 should run, and run well, it the mags yours came with. Having said that, yes, mine is carried with Wilson mags. But it is flawless with metalforms.

(And if you watch closely you might get them cheaper than the coupon allows, I bought a pile of them for around $8 some years ago)

FWIW, my lightweight 1911 also runs with WWII surplus USGI mags.
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