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Posted: 2/17/2016 1:29:39 AM EDT
Hey guys,

I'm needing some help in regards to department policies on pistol mounted lights.

A little background, another officer and I drafted a proposal to our Chief approximately two years ago to get weapon mounted lights approved for our Glock 22's. We narrowed it down to TLR1's for the lights and the Safariland ALS's exactly like the ones we carry now except light bearing. We were told upon submitting the proposal that it would be considered and in typical admin fashion - never heard anything else about it. Well, we had a department wide meeting on Monday, and the topic was reintroduced. Chief says we don't need them. When he worked the road, a handheld flashlight was good enough for him and is still good enough for us. I and another officer were told that if we thought we needed them, we would have to show him proof. Challenge accepted. Keep in mind, we are willing to purchase the lights/holsters with our own money. We just need his blessing to be able to carry them.

Well, I showed proof today. I took Chief and our worst handgun shot to the range. The other officer and I shot our standard low light qual two times each. Once with handheld flashlight, and again with a pistol mounted light. I told him to watch the difference in speed, and the difference in accuracy between each relay. After this was over, he stated that although impressive, he wanted to see other departments policies on the matter. He stated that he thought it would negatively affect our public image and that units would be using the lights on road checks to look at OL's. I gave him the face and told him I would look for policies.

I have contacted the State Police in my state, along with a number of other agencies. They all have the same mindset - no special policy is needed for a weapon mounted light. In short, don't point your gun at stuff you normally wouldn't point your gun at if a flashlight wasn't there. Most people would say well no shit, as I did. But if I'm going to make this happen, I'm  hoping someone out there would have an actual policy on it.

So - If any of you and your departments do have a policy on weapon mounted lights specifically for your duty pistol, please IM or Email me. I can provide credentials via Email for verification.

Link Posted: 2/17/2016 1:59:23 AM EDT
Yeah. Shooting your weapon with one hand while holding your light in the other... when there are better, hands-free, options....

Chief sounds like an idiot.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 2:03:13 AM EDT
I like him. I really do, but his thought processes are very... antiquated.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 4:53:50 AM EDT
This is relevant to my interests.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:26:04 AM EDT
We do not have a policy for them here...and we are the largest SO in the State.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:31:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2016 5:32:41 AM EDT by ScoutH57]
That old guy cop fudd stuff is really frustrating, we have a couple of those too.

We issue TLR1s, even if you carry a personally owned pistol you still get one from the county. They are massively useful.

I just checked again and we have no specific weapon light policy. It just falls under things you do and don't point your gun at.....Good news is found that we are still authorized to carry nunchucks
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:35:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2016 5:36:31 AM EDT by uglygun]
Can I ask why not Surefires?

I only say this after having taken my X300 on and off my duty gun every day after work, for the past 7 years, so that my duty gun can fit my IWB holster for conceal carry.

The Surefire quick detach mechanism simply works.   Not a fan of the screws other lights use.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:10:02 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By uglygun:
Can I ask why not Surefires?

I only say this after having taken my X300 on and off my duty gun every day after work, for the past 7 years, so that my duty gun can fit my IWB holster for conceal carry.

The Surefire quick detach mechanism simply works.   Not a fan of the screws other lights use.
View Quote


Because the TLR1s do the same thing at half the price.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:22:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ScoutH57:


Because the TLR1s do the same thing at half the price.
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Originally Posted By ScoutH57:
Originally Posted By uglygun:
Can I ask why not Surefires?

I only say this after having taken my X300 on and off my duty gun every day after work, for the past 7 years, so that my duty gun can fit my IWB holster for conceal carry.

The Surefire quick detach mechanism simply works.   Not a fan of the screws other lights use.


Because the TLR1s do the same thing at half the price.


I actually prefer the TLR1-HL to the X300s I have had.  I have replaced both of my X300s.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 8:11:01 AM EDT
Sounds like your chief is stuck in the past
Just because something was good enough in the past doesn't mean its optimal for now
Those rails are on the gun for a reason.
I am surprised that he didn't use the replacement cost of the holsters and cost of the lights as an excuse
When we transitioned to the TKR1s and those holsters last year it was considered a major expense in a tight fiscal climate, but we had to do something because the old Blackhawk holsters and lights were clearly deficient.
I'm on vacation now but I'll see what I can dig up when I go back to work.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 12:30:28 PM EDT
Pm me a work email and I will send you a copy.

Although the Glock 22 and weapon lights have a bad history.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 12:47:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By UV18:
Pm me a work email and I will send you a copy.

Although the Glock 22 and weapon lights have a bad history.
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Supposedly that was only on early gen 4s, and Glock claims to have fixed the issues
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 4:04:12 PM EDT
And gen 3s.....

We rarely see a 22 with a light.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:48:34 PM EDT
I carry a 22 with a M3. Have for over ten-fifteen years now. What's the issue?
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 8:39:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By uglygun:
Can I ask why not Surefires?

I only say this after having taken my X300 on and off my duty gun every day after work, for the past 7 years, so that my duty gun can fit my IWB holster for conceal carry.

The Surefire quick detach mechanism simply works.   Not a fan of the screws other lights use.
View Quote


It was simply for cost. We wanted to be able to use our uniform allowance to purchase them, and he wants everything uniform. We assumed people would be more willing to cough up $100 per light vs $2-300 a light. I'm a big Surefire fan, but a TLR1 is a huge improvement over a handheld.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 9:07:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By UV18:
And gen 3s.....

We rarely see a 22 with a light.
View Quote

Almost everyone in my area with the exception of a couple of poor agencies who can't afford them equips their G 22s with some sort of weapon mounted light
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 10:18:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By UV18:
And gen 3s.....

We rarely see a 22 with a light.
View Quote

We all carry either a 22 or a 35 with a TLR1, and most of them are Gen 3s.  What's the issue?
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 10:27:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Gilly:

We all carry either a 22 or a 35 with a TLR1, and most of them are Gen 3s.  What's the issue?
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Originally Posted By Gilly:
Originally Posted By UV18:
And gen 3s.....

We rarely see a 22 with a light.

We all carry either a 22 or a 35 with a TLR1, and most of them are Gen 3s.  What's the issue?

Frame flex
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:06:49 AM EDT
We issue TLR1s to everyone. No policy on it, however it is stressed that the weapon light may only be used when you are already justified in having your gun pointing at something.

No issues on our G21s, but lots of known issues on G22s, as others stated. It was allegedly a frame flexing issue caused by the weight of the light. The last armorers class I took seemed to indicate the problem had been fixed.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 4:00:41 PM EDT
I don't recall our policy verbatim but WMLs are addressed. There is also a 4 hour conversion course we had to go through which included qualifying. Also, our policy says you must have an auxilliary non-weapon mounted light because there will be some idiot searching someone's pockets using their WML for illumination.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 4:59:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ScoutH57:


Because the TLR1s do the same thing at half the price.
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Originally Posted By ScoutH57:
Originally Posted By uglygun:
Can I ask why not Surefires?

I only say this after having taken my X300 on and off my duty gun every day after work, for the past 7 years, so that my duty gun can fit my IWB holster for conceal carry.

The Surefire quick detach mechanism simply works.   Not a fan of the screws other lights use.


Because the TLR1s do the same thing at half the price.



This
I have a "Streamlight 69260 TLR-1 HL High Lumen Rail-Mounted Tactical Light 630 Lumen" that I bought for myself and its bad ass, approx. $125.00. They gave us special SWAT guys a TLR-1 300 lumen for our Glock 17's. The HL is now on my AR15.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:15:05 PM EDT
We have no written policy, if you want a pistol light you have to buy the light and approved make (Safariland) light bearing holster with your own funds.

Right now we are issued a Glock 21SF and Safariland 6365 holsters, I purchased my own 6360 and TLR-1s

We are currently looking at trading them in on Gen4 Glock 17s and issued light bearing holsters are being considered
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:38:30 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:
We have no written policy, if you want a pistol light you have to buy the light and approved make (Safariland) light bearing holster with your own funds.

Right now we are issued a Glock 21SF and Safariland 6365 holsters, I purchased my own 6360 and TLR-1s

We are currently looking at trading them in on Gen4 Glock 17s and issued light bearing holsters are being considered
View Quote



I work in TN (yes, live in MS). I know we used to be allowed a light, but not authorized to have any holster bearing light . Within the past year, we are able to purchase on our own dime the Sig P229 6360 Safariland and be trained on it on our days off. I am trying to find our policy (or anyone that has a copy) on which light we can use. I can't find my Policy and Procedure book, but can't tell my supervisor that though.  I had the chance to buy a used 6360 for 30 bucks that is in great shape, but it is for the TLR1. I bought it. If its not an approved light then I'm out the 30 bucks, but that guy was retiring from a smaller agency and liquidating all his stuff right then. I bought my old P229 when we retired it for newer P229's so I can always use the holster for that maybe (of course who has a duty belt and holster for a now off duty gun?).
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 5:08:11 AM EDT
You guys need those cool finger ring lights that you can spin out of your pocket and maintain a two hand grip. Absolutely kidding.

Sorry bud, but I can't help you. My dept is very lax when it comes to everything weapon related. We don't get issued anything and have to provide our own equipment but the criteria is extremely broad.

Example is.... must be 9mm, 40S&W,  or 45 ACP and be of a quality manufacture. Which pretty much sums up 90% of handguns. For WML's all it says is "WML's are authorized" with no mention of makes or models.
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 9:28:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Frame flex
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Gilly:
Originally Posted By UV18:
And gen 3s.....

We rarely see a 22 with a light.

We all carry either a 22 or a 35 with a TLR1, and most of them are Gen 3s.  What's the issue?

Frame flex


Addressed with the 11 coil magazine spring.
Link Posted: 2/20/2016 11:44:24 PM EDT
My employer will not allow them.  Their reasoning is when we have deputies making stupid mistakes how can we trust them with weapon mounted lights.  Through research I discovered that we are the only ones in the area that do not allow weapon mounted light for general patrol.  I wrote up a proposal, lesson plan, got bids, was actively looking for grants and drafting a pretty simple policy.

Dan
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 7:39:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AGR1279:
My employer will not allow them.  Their reasoning is when we have deputies making stupid mistakes how can we trust them with weapon mounted lights.  Through research I discovered that we are the only ones in the area that do not allow weapon mounted light for general patrol.  I wrote up a proposal, lesson plan, got bids, was actively looking for grants and drafting a pretty simple policy.

Dan
View Quote


I'll never understand that mentality... deal with individual problems, don't handicap everyone based on the actions of a few. Just like patrol rifles, which many departments still don't allow, weapon mounted lights are enablers.

By the way Dan, the low light/night fire class was full and a big success... was fun and informative for those who attended... thanks again for the info.

Link Posted: 2/21/2016 8:37:39 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
I'll never understand that mentality... deal with individual problems, don't handicap everyone based on the actions of a few. Just like patrol rifles, which many departments still don't allow, weapon mounted lights are enablers.



By the way Dan, the low light/night fire class was full and a big success... was fun and informative for those who attended... thanks again for the info.



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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:



Originally Posted By AGR1279:

My employer will not allow them.  Their reasoning is when we have deputies making stupid mistakes how can we trust them with weapon mounted lights.  Through research I discovered that we are the only ones in the area that do not allow weapon mounted light for general patrol.  I wrote up a proposal, lesson plan, got bids, was actively looking for grants and drafting a pretty simple policy.



Dan




I'll never understand that mentality... deal with individual problems, don't handicap everyone based on the actions of a few. Just like patrol rifles, which many departments still don't allow, weapon mounted lights are enablers.



By the way Dan, the low light/night fire class was full and a big success... was fun and informative for those who attended... thanks again for the info.



If you can't trust them with a WML, which has a low probability of being able to severely injure or kill someone, why would you trust them with a firearm?  I'm sorry your employer has their head firmly planted in their rectum.



 
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