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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 6/21/2002 9:54:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/21/2002 10:00:46 AM EST by PitViper]
Okay, AR15.com Army, I need your input. Mrs. Pit and I are in the process of buying our first home. It will be new construction, in a nice neighborhood with lots of investment potential. We met with our builder two weeks ago, and agreed on the floorplan. The ONLY modification to the home was that we asked for a different front elevation, exactly like another home in the neighborhood, that used all brick and not siding as the original plans called for. Nothing else is different. This other house that we are modeling ours after is on sale for exactly the same price as the unmodified one lists for in the sales literature, and this was the verbally agreed upon price for our requested home at the end of the meeting. We then were given two weeks to secure our financing, which we have done, based on this figure. Well, today, as we set up the meeting to sign the contract, the realtor who is selling on behalf of the builder tells us the builder went and looked at the other house and now has changed his tune saying that he cannot in fact do the front elevation for the same price, but will have to add $1000 to cover the increased cost. This would have been all fine and dandy if he had told me this 2 weeks ago, but in my mind is totally unacceptable after I have gained approval letters, good faith estimates and have based my decision to purchase on the other number. The money is not the issue, either, we wouldhave no trouble affording another G. I simply believe that a businessman must stick by his word, and do NOT like being told one thing and then having the 'ol switcheroo pulled on me at the last second. If I give an estimate to my client, then I will stick by it if the cost goes up through my error...like not bothering to be familiar with the increased cost of certain designs I offer. IMO, If he will misrepresent this, he'll misrepresent other things, too. It is not my fault if he was unfamiliar with the differences in the two elevations, and he should not have agreed to the lower price but instead said he'd have to look at the other elevation before committing to a figure. Instead he says Yep, we can do it for that, and then changes his tune the day we go to sign the contract. Keep in mind this supposedly more expensive design is sitting for sale, built by him, for the exact same money he says he can't build our home for. So, whaddaya say, AR15.commers....Am I full of shit, and should just buck up, pay the extra thousand, or should I stick to my guns based on my principles and insist that he stick by his original word, and maybe blow the whole deal over a measly 1K if he refuses to admit he agreed to the original price? Have at it,folks, I'm a big boy. Pit Edited kuz I kant spelle
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 9:59:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 9:59:32 AM EST
I doubt the builder will be willing to lose the deal over $1k. If you don't feel good with the way the he lied to you initially, then back out. Having just had a house built 2 years ago, I can guarantee that you will feel like you have been raped when all is said and done. All builders will do something to piss you off.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 10:04:36 AM EST
If you and your wife really like the area, I won't let a 1K disagreement get in the way (I know it's the principle thing). How much is the house going for?
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 10:11:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By osprey21: Welcome to the wonderful world of residential construction. ..squeeze him!
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Seconded. And I'd further posit the idea of trying to get another grand tacked off the price for price-baiting. But, I'm a bastard that way. the_reject
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 10:12:38 AM EST
We are getting ready to build our 2nd house (selling 1st one though) and there is way more cost involved than 1K for bicking up the house, so that is not a bad deal at all. Granted he did tell you he would do it with no bump in price but still it is a good deal. [beer] Remember you haven't bought the house until closing time!!!
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 12:36:25 PM EST
Talk some more with "your" builder. Maybe split the grand difference. FWIW, changes and getting stiffed are the two BIGGEST pains for someone in construction. His cost increase may be legit. I'm not sticking up for your guy...I've been on both sides. Construction is filled with all types and personalities. Sometimes you gotta work with 'em. In the long run, if you can really talk with the builder throughout the whole project, it will be worth more than the $1000 that you're worried about now. Good luck and Stay safe.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 12:45:59 PM EST
Go to the construction site [b][i]every day[/i][/b]!
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 12:51:28 PM EST
Yeah if you decide to pay the extra thousand dollars, then go to the site each day, nit pick each and every little thing that is wrong.. Make the sucker make it exactly like you want it... Make him earn that extra thousand. Ben
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 12:54:42 PM EST
Regardless of what happens to the disputed 1K, try and find a home inspection company that does progressive inspections-meaning they inspect the work done as the house is being built. Then have another inspection done the day before your walk through. I work for a home inspection company (at least for the next 5 days) and builders DREAD seeing us show up because our guys can 98% of the time spot the serious deficiencies the builder hoped you wouldn't notice. I'm not saying this goes on EVERYWHERE, but it's common here in the Phoenix area. Might have something to do with those "undocumented aliens" seen at the jobsites.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 1:21:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By PitViper: Okay, AR15.com Army, I need your input. Mrs. Pit and I are in the process of buying our first home. It will be new construction, in a nice neighborhood with lots of investment potential. We met with our builder two weeks ago, and agreed on the floorplan. The ONLY modification to the home was that we asked for a different front elevation, exactly like another home in the neighborhood, that used all brick and not siding as the original plans called for. Nothing else is different. This other house that we are modeling ours after is on sale for exactly the same price as the unmodified one lists for in the sales literature, [red]and this was the verbally agreed upon price for our requested home at the end of the meeting.[/red]
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You don't say what state you are in. In Oregon, you have a legally enforceable contract. If the builder built the other house, and knows the lay of the land for yours, there is no reason for the price change unless costs have changed. I'm one of those people where a deal is a hand shake, and a look in the eye. If I were you, I'd sit down with the builder, (JUST YOU & HIM), And let him know in a civil way what you think (NOT feel). His reaction would depend on whether or not I completed the deal. I will NOT do business with those I don't trust, even if it means I screw myself in the process. I have always found this to work out, as something better always comes along. Keep your integrity! BTW, it would help if you put your state on your profile.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 1:29:43 PM EST
Nit pick him!!!
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 3:47:18 PM EST
before you sign anything, look it over, make a copy...shoot this copy full of holes, and give it back to him. [;)] stick by your guns, no pun intended, and talk it over. remind him of what you both agreed to. if not find someone else. you give this guy an inch and he'll take another.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 3:55:58 PM EST
Just ask him why the price change? He may have a legit reason. If he doesn't you should find another builder. Also ask yourself why you chose this builder. Was it lowest price, a referral or is he the only game in town? Check references, Credit ratings and BBB. Go look at other houses he built and talk to the owners as to warranty issues. Cover your bases so there are no suprises at the end. Just my .02. Good Luck Joe
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 4:02:31 PM EST
The Builder is paying himself over 1,000 per week, he must have run short on a house and needs to make up a grand quick. Do not get into this relationship if you do not trust him, there are hundreds of ways to screw a homeowner,and adding a grand to the deal right before the signing is #1. The bulder can hold you hostage for your home, you have to be willing to walk away, or atleast make him beleive that you will. Who owns the land? I fits his lot till the closing then you can walk for almost any little thing that the changes from the plan/specs, and they are there if you just look hard enough. Good luck, and hope this builder is not going to execute plans 2-100 of the we-screwum-and-howe book of building.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:55:07 PM EST
I've built 3 in the last 12 years and there's always something to be added... I've said no deal at least as many times and they still built the house at the agreed price... $1000.00 is a lot of money to you or I but its chump change to the builder... I say make him eat it... All the advise you got about watching the construction closely is great advice... Heed it!! You'll be glad you did... [:|]
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:54:58 PM EST
I build houses for a living, so I hope I can be of some help. 1. DO NOT BUY A TRACT BUILT HOME!!! THEY ARE JUNK! Most of the time, they do not use local contractors, the use of a local contractor is best if you have problems during construction. kind of like buying a gun at a gunshow vs. the local dealer. Who are you going to go to if you have problems/parts. You will pay more, but the Quality Will Show. If there are houses near that look exactly as yours, then you are probably looking at tract built crap. 2. Take some time to properly research your builder. Ask to see some homes he has constructed in the past 10 years. Knock on doors and talk to people. 3. Get rid of the REALTOR, they Cost you money! The realtor is getting somewhere between 3%-6% of the sale, for nothing more than holding your hand and filing out a contract. The builder should be happy to pass on the saving to you without the use of a realtor. Sorry all you REALTORS its the truth! You are not Needed on a New Construction home SALE. If the quality is there, people ususally notice, no need for a fast talking sales pitching Realtor. If a builder cant show you the quality of his work without paying someone else to do it, He's obviously got a problem. 4. If the fellow quoted you this price and is now playing the switcharoo game. I personally would walk. A man is only as good as his word. If he can't be trusted at this stage, how are you going to trust him over the next 3-4 months during construction. (yes, it takes more than a week to properly build a home, I see it done in a weeks time by some of the local "BIG BOY" tract builders, using day loaborers, illegals(like they care about quality)) 5. I dont know where you are building, but around here brick homes are common. I won't build a SIDING COVERED HOME! If The elevation of the brick house you are considering is the same as another that is siding, there should be 0% price difference. The elevations must be IDENTICAL though. Roof Pitch, Gables, hips and all. By the time you pay the carpenter the extra money to hang the siding, and the painter to properly paint it, you can buy a reasonably priced brick and have it laid for a mininal difference if any. Like I said, there are numerous brick comapnies located near my locale, if you live somewhere where bricks are uncommon, this might not be the case. The only difference in the prep work for building a brick home versus siding, is that the exterior walls of the brick home are usually pulled in approx 6 inches for a brick ledge aroune the outside of the foundation. Not Rocket SCIENCE. 6. Like these guys say... be picky.... educate yourself... Make sure you are not getting a YUGO, Painted and Caulked up to look like a CADILLAC. 7. Ask yourself this, if you went to buy a car and negotiated a price for one with all the bells and whistles you wanted, and then went back to the finance department to make the purchase, only to find out that a higher price was on the paperwork, WOULD YOU SIGN IT? HELL NO YOU WOULD NOT! When choosing the builder, also remember, THE CHEAPEST IS USUALLY NOT THE BEST, just like everything else in life.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 5:22:21 AM EST
Update, for those who care: We found a house, in a much better community, that's bigger and has more amenities,AND is 3K cheaper, and I owe that good fortune to this asshole that just had to try and Squeeze me for another 1K, which forced me to look a little more. We LOVE this new place. I guess I should thank him? I can't wait to tell the Realtor today that she lost a sale and go pound sand because she supported this builder's bullshit and forgot where the actual money would eventually come from. I'm just a vindictive asshole that way. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thanks for all your responses! Pit
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 5:53:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/23/2002 6:02:55 AM EST by Am-O-Tramp]
Go to the building site every day with a digital camera and take pictures of any work you think is going in wrong. If you have issues a picture is worth a thousand words and a camera can be a very intimidating tool. Post questionable work pics here, our knowledgeable membership most likely will be able to answer any questions you may have. One more thing, compare apples to apples, the cheaper home may have a smaller furnace/air conditioner or not the proper mount of duct work. There could be a good reason for the $3k differance.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 6:35:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 6:56:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/23/2002 6:57:55 AM EST by Yojimbo]
Pitviper, We had our house built in 2000 and I was probably the builders worst nightmare. I visited the site almost everyday and left notes of things I found wrong and I would personally visit the site manager at least 2 times a week to shoot the breeze and make sure everything was on track. I wasn't really a bad customer but I made sure they all knew I was up to speed on the what was happening and on who was doing what. That home building was quite a learning experience and all the trouble I went through keeping an eye on things paid off because our home has been trouble free since we moved in. Here's our 4BR, 2.5BA, 2300 sq ft home built in 2000. [img]http://a5.cpimg.com/image/03/E7/10196995-926d-02000180-.jpg[/img] I want a larger house on some acreage next time. BTW let me know how the realtor and builder take the news. I love it when a$$holes get what's coming! Later!
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 12:07:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paul: When you're 10K apart on a bid that's one thing, 1K isn't worth it. I would have paid it in a heart beat just to avoid another day living in an apartment.
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It was never about the money. It's about telling me one thing, and then denying to my face that we ever discussed it as you try to squeeze an extra K out of me. I will NOT do business with someone that will lie to me. I don't have many principles (LOL) but I'm adamant about the ones I have![smoke] Pit
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