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Posted: 4/21/2016 11:48:52 AM EDT
I’m having trouble finding real world velocity data for 147 grain 9mm FMJ and 180 grain .40 FMJ loads.

I’m looking to find the hottest load in each loading without going exotic- i.e. I want Winchester USA, American Eagle, Speer Lawman, etc.

This is for the bowling pin match I shoot on Monday nights- just trying to have the highest power factor I can while buying my ammo at WalMart.

The reason I’m looking for real world data is I’m hearing the American Eagle shoots a lot slower than advertised (my normal round of choice). My example is their 147 grain 9mm load. It’s advertised at 1,000 fps, but the two real world sources I found online had it below 900 fps out of a 4” barrel.

Links? Real data?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:55:19 AM EDT
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:02:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 12:03:59 PM EDT by Rockdoc]
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads?

ARF database for pistol

I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again.

You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:10:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rockdoc:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads?

ARF database for pistol

I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again.

You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol.
View Quote


Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.

Just looking for factory info.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:10:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 12:11:39 PM EDT by Silver_Surfer]
Reload 200 FMJ in your 40. I do


get a crono
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:11:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 3-gun:
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load.
View Quote


I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:17:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:


I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo.
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Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By 3-gun:
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load.


I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo.



If only the manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Etc.) published that data

Since you want factory ammo, I am not sure why you did not look it up at the mfgs websites You have the caliber and bullet weight, what else is there.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 12:20:11 PM EDT by Silver_Surfer]
If factory is your only option. I'd recommend the heaviest JHP you can find. Less deflection and more energy transfer on the pins.

ole pin ammo
knocking the pins over is easy. clearing the table is another story.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:18:54 PM EDT
Do you consider Underwood factory ammo?

+P+

I roll all my own now, but I think I still have an extra G17 mag of his +P+ 147gr XTP stuff in my night stand. It's stout, to say the least.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:18:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:


Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.

Just looking for factory info.
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Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By Rockdoc:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads?

ARF database for pistol

I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again.

You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol.


Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.

Just looking for factory info.


Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading.

I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:20:01 PM EDT
Do you even reload, bro?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:22:53 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BGENE:



If only the manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Etc.) published that data

Since you want factory ammo, I am not sure why you did not look it up at the mfgs websites You have the caliber and bullet weight, what else is there.
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Originally Posted By BGENE:
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By 3-gun:
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load.


I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo.



If only the manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Etc.) published that data

Since you want factory ammo, I am not sure why you did not look it up at the mfgs websites You have the caliber and bullet weight, what else is there.


Looking for actual data.

American Eagle claims 1,000 fps with their 147 grain FMJ load. Two sources I found online showed it less than 900 fps.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:26:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:


Looking for actual data.

American Eagle claims 1,000 fps with their 147 grain FMJ load. Two sources I found online showed it less than 900 fps.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By BGENE:
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By 3-gun:
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load.


I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo.



If only the manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Etc.) published that data

Since you want factory ammo, I am not sure why you did not look it up at the mfgs websites You have the caliber and bullet weight, what else is there.


Looking for actual data.

American Eagle claims 1,000 fps with their 147 grain FMJ load. Two sources I found online showed it less than 900 fps.


Need a chrono. The best you will get with this published data, or even someone else's data is just a SWAG. Different loads produce different results in different weapons.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:26:53 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dominion21:


Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading.

I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dominion21:
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By Rockdoc:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads?

ARF database for pistol

I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again.

You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol.


Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.

Just looking for factory info.


Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading.

I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ.


A very large percentage of the shooters at our matches reload obviously, but I just don't have the time right now between, work, kids, wife, working out, obstacle course races, travel, etc.

I actually already have the equipment....which I'm sure will make people cringe.

A safe 1,200 fps 147 grain 9mm would be awesome!
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:28:59 PM EDT
Get a 45. Problem solved.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:29:57 PM EDT
Most factory 147 gr 9mm will be subsonic. I've run ae, Remington, Speer, fiocchi
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:30:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 12:34:29 PM EDT by yobo]
Winchester white box 9mm 147gr JHP from late 2002 or early 2003.
From my Glock 17 - 850 fps
From my Sig 225 - 790 fps
From my P7M8 - 830 fps
S&W 640 - 770 fps

Winchester white box 9mm 147gr JHP from 2008
From my Glock 19 - Avg 880 fps
From my Sig 226 - Avg 840 fps
From my Browning Hi-Power - Avg 870 fps

These are average velocity taken from about 10' from muzzle and from 10 rounds and rounded to nearest 10's.
Another issue I noticed is that the high-low readings were very large...sometimes +/- 70 fps or more per 10 shot string.

Compared to most of the premium self-defense 9mm 147gr ammo, this Winchester white box ammo is pretty tame. Most premium ammo will give additional 50-70 fps more.
Only positive thing I can say is that this ammo has never failed to feed or extract in any of my pistols.

ETA: this used to be (maybe it still is) the standard issue ammo for Detroit police dept. Somebody up there may be able to give you some definitive answers about this ammo.






Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:30:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thormx538:
Do you consider Underwood factory ammo?

+P+

I roll all my own now, but I think I still have an extra G17 mag of his +P+ 147gr XTP stuff in my night stand. It's stout, to say the least.
View Quote


I thought about loads like this......I'm only shooting on average 50 rounds/match.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:31:13 PM EDT
It seems to me the answer is to take up reloading, for something like .40 and 9mm, you could pay for the equipment in a month or less. You can set it up on a Black & Decker workmate if you have no room. It does not get easier than straight wall pistol cases.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:33:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dillehayd:
Get a 45. Problem solved.
View Quote


Not really necessary given the conditions that our matches are shot at.

Very small table where the pins are placed only about 1 foot from the edge at 21 feet.

I placed 2nd this week shooting my Glock 19 with 147 grain American Eagle. Given our match conditions, speed is king. If it was a large table, you'd be absolutely right.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:33:37 PM EDT
I shoot pins with 147 hollow points. I hand load but only go for 925 fps. No problem clearing then from the table. We use a 4x8 sheet of plywood with the pins lined up in the middle for 9mm.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:35:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:36:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By yobo:
Winchester white box 9mm 147gr JHP from late 2002 or early 2003.
From my Glock 17 - 850 fps
From my Sig 225 - 790 fps
From my P7M8 - 830 fps
S&W 640 - 770 fps

Winchester white box 9mm 147gr JHP from 2008
From my Glock 19 - Avg 880 fps
From my Sig 226 - Avg 840 fps
From my Browning Hi-Power - Avg 870 fps

These are average velocity taken from about 10' from muzzle and from 10 rounds and rounded to nearest 10's.
Another issue I noticed is that the high-low readings were very large...sometimes +/- 70 fps or more per 10 shot string.

Compared to most of the premium self-defense 9mm 147gr ammo, this Winchester white box ammo is pretty tame. Most premium ammo will give additional 50-70 fps more.
Only positive thing I can say is that this ammo has never failed to feed or extract in any of my pistols.

ETA: this used to be (maybe it still is) the standard issue ammo for Detroit police dept. Somebody up there may be able to give you some definitive answers about this ammo.






View Quote


Thanks! This is the kind of information I'm looking for.


Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:41:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BGENE:
It seems to me the answer is to take up reloading, for something like .40 and 9mm, you could pay for the equipment in a month or less. You can set it up on a Black & Decker workmate if you have no room. It does not get easier than straight wall pistol cases.
View Quote


i already own the equipment- just need 9mm dies. It's the time I lack.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:41:41 PM EDT
Buffalo bore makes or made some hot 147grn ammo:

http://www.wholesalehunter.com/product.asp?productid=113154

But probably too costly for regular use.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:03:59 PM EDT
Bowling pin Vfinal for 1.5kg pin:

147 @ 850fps: 5.63 fps
147 @ 950fps: 5.99 fps
147 @ 1050fps: 6.63 fps
180 @ 1000fps: 7.72fps
230 @ 850fps: 8.63fps

Since your table is so narrow, I don't see a reason to prefer a fast 147 over a slow one. Since speed is king, I'd actually pick the slowest 147 that cycled my gun. That would be the 145 Silver Bear, but walmart probably doesn't carry it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:07:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:


I thought about loads like this......I'm only shooting on average 50 rounds/match.
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Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By thormx538:
Do you consider Underwood factory ammo?

+P+

I roll all my own now, but I think I still have an extra G17 mag of his +P+ 147gr XTP stuff in my night stand. It's stout, to say the least.


I thought about loads like this......I'm only shooting on average 50 rounds/match.



Agreed with Underwood.

The 147 +p+ is easy to shoot too. Check out the TNoutsoors9 video on the gold dots. They also have fmj.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:48:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Skillshot:
Bowling pin Vfinal for 1.5kg pin:

147 @ 850fps: 5.63 fps
147 @ 950fps: 5.99 fps
147 @ 1050fps: 6.63 fps
180 @ 1000fps: 7.72fps
230 @ 850fps: 8.63fps

Since your table is so narrow, I don't see a reason to prefer a fast 147 over a slow one. Since speed is king, I'd actually pick the slowest 147 that cycled my gun. That would be the 145 Silver Bear, but walmart probably doesn't carry it.
View Quote


You're probably right, and I'm probably overthinking it.

I came in second place this week with 147 American eagle.

Just trying to get the slightest edge I can.....without being slower.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:02:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 2:03:18 PM EDT by Bones45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:


A very large percentage of the shooters at our matches reload obviously, but I just don't have the time right now between, work, kids, wife, working out, obstacle course races, travel, etc.

I actually already have the equipment....which I'm sure will make people cringe.

A safe 1,200 fps 147 grain 9mm would be awesome!
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By Dominion21:
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By Rockdoc:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads?

ARF database for pistol

I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again.

You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol.


Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.

Just looking for factory info.


Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading.

I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ.


A very large percentage of the shooters at our matches reload obviously, but I just don't have the time right now between, work, kids, wife, working out, obstacle course races, travel, etc.

I actually already have the equipment....which I'm sure will make people cringe.

A safe 1,200 fps 147 grain 9mm would be awesome!


I sincerely doubt you are going to find a 147 gr going 1200 fps.

ETA even with +P+ if anyone even makes such a thing.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:12:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bones45:


I sincerely doubt you are going to find a 147 gr going 1200 fps.

ETA even with +P+ if anyone even makes such a thing.
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Originally Posted By Bones45:
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By Dominion21:
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By Rockdoc:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads?

ARF database for pistol

I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again.

You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol.


Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.

Just looking for factory info.


Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading.

I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ.


A very large percentage of the shooters at our matches reload obviously, but I just don't have the time right now between, work, kids, wife, working out, obstacle course races, travel, etc.

I actually already have the equipment....which I'm sure will make people cringe.

A safe 1,200 fps 147 grain 9mm would be awesome!


I sincerely doubt you are going to find a 147 gr going 1200 fps.

ETA even with +P+ if anyone even makes such a thing.

9x23 gets about 1250-1270 with 147.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:15:30 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:


Not really necessary given the conditions that our matches are shot at.

Very small table where the pins are placed only about 1 foot from the edge at 21 feet.

I placed 2nd this week shooting my Glock 19 with 147 grain American Eagle. Given our match conditions, speed is king. If it was a large table, you'd be absolutely right.
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Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:
Originally Posted By dillehayd:
Get a 45. Problem solved.


Not really necessary given the conditions that our matches are shot at.

Very small table where the pins are placed only about 1 foot from the edge at 21 feet.

I placed 2nd this week shooting my Glock 19 with 147 grain American Eagle. Given our match conditions, speed is king. If it was a large table, you'd be absolutely right.


147 berry's plated over 3.3gr titegroup at 1.16" works in 9mm....

200gr Bayou Bullets semi wadcutter over 4.3gr titegroup at...oh, never mind.

Seriously, reload and you'll find there's a whole world of difference.

Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:19:41 PM EDT
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