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Posted: 9/2/2004 7:46:34 AM EST
Navy Challenging Kerry's Medals (link)


The United States Navy is challenging the authenticity of Sen. John Kerry's Vietnam War medals, in a development that could prove to be the most damaging yet to the embattled Democrat's presidential campaign.

A Navy spokesman is calling Kerry's Silver Star citation with Combat V "incorrect" as it appears on his campaign web site, explaining in an interview with Chicago Sun-Times reporter Thomas Lipscomb that the Navy has never issued a Combat V at any time for the Silver Star.

The Navy is also questioning the listing on Kerry’s web site for four bronze campaign stars for his service in Vietnam. The official naval record credits Kerry with just two Vietnam campaigns.

"That is sufficient for the wearing of the Vietnam Service Medal for one campaign bearing one campaign star for the additional campaign — not four," reports Lipscomb in today's New York Sun.

Kerry's campaign has repeatedly cited the Navy as the ultimate authority on the candidate's war record, saying they wouldn't have awarded him medals he didn't deserve.

But with the Navy now publicly challenging Kerry's decorations, that defense has been rendered inoperative.

Noting that Kerry has refused to authorize the release of his full military records, the legal watchdog group Judicial Watch called on Kerry this week to remove any questionable citations from his Web site pending a formal investigation by the Navy.

"It is to your best interest to have your record in good order," General Thomas Wilkerson, the president of the U.S. Naval Institute, told Lipscomb. "If it is wrong, you are accountable. And if you use it to advance your career, it is even more important.”

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 7:49:44 AM EST

If he wins the election in November, it can only be because he sold his soul to the devil. No other possible explanation could suffice.

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 7:50:52 AM EST
Never heard of newsmax. Hope they got their shit straight and this true.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 7:51:01 AM EST


The house of cards continues to collapse.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 7:53:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By BobP:

The house of cards continues to collapse.

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:00:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 8:01:12 AM EST by Noname]

"I did not have sex with that unauthorized medal vender..."

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:02:41 AM EST

A Navy spokesman is calling Kerry's Silver Star citation with Combat V "incorrect" as it appears on his campaign web site, explaining in an interview with Chicago Sun-Times reporter Thomas Lipscomb that the Navy has never issued a Combat V at any time for the Silver Star.


I'm hoping the Chicago Sun-Times prints this and puts it up on their site. But you never know.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:02:43 AM EST
A conservative reporting site...very accurate in their finds.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:04:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 8:27:57 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the DP gave Kerry the hook and replaced him with Clinton.

He is unraveling at the seams and his poll numbers are going down faster than <Slur removed>
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:08:52 AM EST
It just keeps getting better!
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:10:36 AM EST
[nelson] HA HA! [/nelson]
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:13:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:14:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
If he wins the election in November, it can only be because he sold his soul to the devil. No other possible explanation could suffice.




momma says Kerry is the devil
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:19:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 8:20:16 AM EST by thebomber]
IT'S A RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY, I TELL YOU!





Isn't that hat supposed to be made of tin foil?


Bomber

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:21:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
If he wins the election in November, it can only be because he sold his soul to the devil. No other possible explanation could suffice.






+1
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:25:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By RED_5:

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
If he wins the election in November, it can only be because he sold his soul to the devil. No other possible explanation could suffice.






+1




Don't worry. GWB offered his soul up to God, and God ALWAYS beats the devil.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:29:46 AM EST
Man, I thought the Navy would put one over the bow as a warning instead of coming full force with the 16" guns!
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:44:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By mac130:
Never heard of newsmax. Hope they got their shit straight and this true.



kind of a tin foil site

sometimes accurate, but what they report, is usually not covered in the mainstream media, so it has no backing.

They may be correct, but telling someone the things you find there will get you labeled as a nutball if they haven't heard it elsewhere.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:46:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.



[cough]Lautenburgh[/cough]
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:51:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 8:56:51 AM EST by 223-Buckaroo]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.



right...... but Kerry could end up floating in canal somewhere..... then they could petition for a replacement candidate and would get it. Don't put it past them....


edited to add the following list :


The Clintons dead “associates”:

James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just before she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

Vince Foster - Former white House councilor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. Air Force pathologists examining Ron Brown’s body back in the US reported that there was a hole in Brown's skull consistent with a large caliber gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated for illegal business dealings, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

C. Victor Raiser II - & - Montgomery Raiser, Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July1992.

Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".

Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He
allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide.He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

Kathy Ferguson, ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson.Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.

Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton's friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.

Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.

Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution TrustCorp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guarantee scandal.

Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department
of Commerce.

Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council
personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother. Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident

Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.

Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guarantee. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.

Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling
asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel Major
General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly Spec.
Gary Rhodes
Steve Willis
Robert Williams
Conway LeBleu
Todd McKeehan

Less credible category
THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:
Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.

Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988

Gregory Collins Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

James Milan - Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to "natural causes".

Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

Richard Winters - A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

Scary list. Pass this on. Let the public become aware of what happens to those around the highest office in the land.

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:51:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.



The Dems could always knock him off in a "supposed" terror attack in New York, one in which Hillary barely escapes the disaster. Then she gets weeks and weeks of free press coverage on her trumatic experience. Then she will ask to continue on as the Presidential nominee to continue what John Kerry started.

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:53:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:55:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:58:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.




They did in New Jersey...
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:58:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
You guys are fucking nuts... seriously... a candidate under Secret Service protection is going to get knocked off by hiw own party including a massive cover-up, and Hillary rides to the rescue. Jesus that shit is too stupid to even address. Man some of you guys are just as whacked out as the DU crowd.




I added a list of dead Clinton Associates to my post.....

Not saying I believe it all... but it does make you go "hmmmmmmmm".
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:07:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:12:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:16:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:21:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

And for the people in the Clinton administration that died under suspicious circumstances... HOW MANY WERE UNDER SECRET SERVICE PROTECTION AND 24 HOUR MEDIA COVERAGE?

Damn it people, think! When you advocate these theories you look foolish. It doesn't serve our side well at all... just as similar conspiracy theories on DU make the left look bad in independent voters' minds.




Planes crash.

Buses crash.

People choke on their food.


I'm not suggesting that Hillary would walk up personally and cap the guy on national TV...... I'm just saying that the idea he could be "removed" is at least within the realm of possibility.

Do I think it WILL happen? NO. I don't. I'm just saying that it COULD happen. People have been killed for political reasons. It does happen.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:30:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 9:30:56 AM EST by 4get_No1]
None of Kerry's official documentation regarding the Silver Star includes any mention of a "V" for a real good reason - not applicable. That "V" is his personal invention and this is just another example of his low character. HE stuck a "V" through the fabric because HE liked it that way. On the other hand, his officially authorized Campaign Periods are indeed 5, not 2, and that's actually more curious - "OFFICIALLY"?

In 2001 his DD214 truly was officially amended adding 3 more period awards that are totally fabricated. Please note, it was done officially. The question is WHO authenticated this minor but totally unwarranted supplement? Maybe it has something to do with Kerry's 3rd bogus Bronze Star "cleanup" paperwork?

<spelling>
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:32:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Blued-Steel:
Man, I thought the Navy would put one over the bow as a warning instead of coming full force with the 16" guns!



They don't want him as their boss anymore than we do.

If the Navy really did make that statement, it is very serious and the press will not be able to ignore for very long. Once one matter about his awards comes up, the rest will have to follow.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:33:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
kind of a tin foil site

sometimes accurate, but what they report, is usually not covered in the mainstream media, so it has no backing.

They may be correct, but telling someone the things you find there will get you labeled as a nutball if they haven't heard it elsewhere.

TXL



Well then, here's another source for this story:

Front Page Magazine
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:37:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By mac130:
Never heard of newsmax. Hope they got their shit straight and this true.



kind of a tin foil site

sometimes accurate, but what they report, is usually not covered in the mainstream media, so it has no backing.

They may be correct, but telling someone the things you find there will get you labeled as a nutball if they haven't heard it elsewhere.

TXL



Yup...when I see it on Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC, I'll give that story more credibility...until then, it's AFDB talk...
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:40:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.

Bwahahahahahhaa.
You've obviously never heard of Toricelli in New Jersey.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:45:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
You guys are fucking nuts... seriously... a candidate under Secret Service protection is going to get knocked off by hiw own party including a massive cover-up, and Hillary rides to the rescue. Jesus that shit is too stupid to even address. Man some of you guys are just as whacked out as the DU crowd.

Nice 'Respect' from a fucking MODERATOR.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:45:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 9:47:47 AM EST by Jeepster]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.



Legally, I entirely agree with you, but remember the shit the Dems pulled in MO in 2000 with Mel/Jean Carnahan and 2002 with The Torch in NJ. The Dems have a bad habit of flounting the law and daring you to call them on it. And the unleashing the worse sort of toxic rhetoric against you if you do call them on it, like Gore and the Dems did to GWB in FLA in 2000.
Election laws clearly don't mean shit to these people.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:54:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 9:54:43 AM EST by renotse]
Kerry’s Bit Of Colored Ribbon

(link)

By THOMAS LIPSCOMB

Senator Kerry no longer has a problem with just the 35-year-old recollections of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that are questioning his military records. He now has to deal with the United States Navy.
Mr. Kerry’s campaign Web site, which may be viewed at www.johnkerry.com, lists a Silver Star with a Combat V on his DD214. This form issued by the Department of Defense summarizes a serviceman’s career. It is always signed and authenticated as accurate by the individual, in this case Mr. Kerry. But according to a Navy spokesman it is “incorrect.”The Navy has never issued a Combat V at any time for the Silver Star.
This is a serious issue. The chief admiral of the Navy, Jeremy Michael Boorda, committed suicide over questions raised about his right to wear a Combat V by Newsweek magazine in 1996. Boorda stated in his suicide note to his sailors that the questions raised about those he wore caused him to take his life. And that was only a Bronze Star, not the Navy’s third highest decoration.
At the time, Mr. Kerry told the Boston Globe that Boorda’s conduct was “sufficient to question [Boorda’s] leadership position.…If you wind up being less than what you’re pretending to be, there is a major confrontation with value and self-esteem and your sense of how others view you.”
The Navy also questioned the listing on Mr. Kerry’s Web site of a DD215 form listing four bronze campaign stars for his service in Vietnam. According to its records, the Navy credits Mr. Kerry with two campaigns.That is sufficient for the wearing of the Vietnam Service Medal for one campaign bearing one campaign star for the additional campaign — not four.
Perhaps most puzzling of all is Mr. Kerry’s display of a citation for his Star signed in 1986 by the Secretary of the Navy, John Lehman. Mr. Lehman, who recently completed his service on the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, finds this “[a] total mystery. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me.”
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:55:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.

Bwahahahahahhaa.
You've obviously never heard of Toricelli in New Jersey.



Nice respect for a moderator . Why not state your opinion regarding a relationship between Kerry and Toricelli? I, for one, would be interested in knowing more about that.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:57:56 AM EST
Kerry medal complaint reaches Navy secretary
Probe request comes as ex-chief Lehman calls Silver Star citation 'complete mystery'

(link)

The Department of Defense says it has informed Secretary of the Navy Gordon R. England of a formal request to investigate alleged military code violations in Sen. John Kerry's Silver Star award.

The request was made by the public interest group Judicial Watch after news reports revealed Kerry's campaign website displays a document listing a "Silver Star with combat 'V'" even though the combat "V" device is never given with the nation's third highest award for heroism.

Also, there are three citations for the award, with the third, issued more than a decade after the event, bearing the signature of former Navy Secretary John Lehman.

Lehman, however, says he had nothing to do with the citation.

"It is a total mystery to me," he told the Chicago Sun-Times. "I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me."

Jerome Corsi, author of "Unfit for Command," the New York Times No. 1 best-seller by Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, told WorldNetDaily he considers the Judicial Watch complaint "an important and serious investigation."

"We believe the secretary of the Navy will validate the charges we've made in 'Unfit for Command,'" he said.

In its letter to Judicial Watch, the inspector general of the Defense Department cited Section 8(d) of the Inspector General Act of 1978, which states "the IG of the Department of Defense shall expeditiously report suspected or alleged violations of chapter 47 of title 10, United States Code (Uniform Code of Military Justice), to the Secretary of the military department concerned or the Secretary of Defense."

Judicial Watch filed the complaint Aug. 18 and then, Aug. 31, called on Kerry to remove the Silver Star citation from his campaign website pending a review of the U.S. Navy's granting of the award.

"We hope that this is the beginning of the actual investigation into the legitimacy of Kerry's awards," Chris Farrell, Judicial Watch's director of investigations and research, told WND.

"Any investigation that finally uncovers the facts and lays out the ground-level truth of the story behind these medals is good for the American public," he said. "We just need the unvarnished truth to come out."
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:05:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By 4get_No1:
Nice respect for a moderator . Why not state your opinion regarding a relationship between Kerry and Toricelli? I, for one, would be interested in knowing more about that.



Excerpt from
http://www.politicsnj.com/korancki100302_Senate.htm

New Dem candidate wins in court while Forrester bashes the Lautenberg-Torricelli team

By STEVE KORNACKI

PoliticsNJ.com

TRENTON, October 3, 2002 - A unanimous ruling by the state's highest court yesterday cleared the way for former Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg to replace Robert Torricelli as the Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate. The decision has Republicans crying foul, and promising to appeal the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Lautenberg, who spent eighteen years in the U.S. Senate before retiring in 2000, will face Republican businessman Douglas R. Forrester in the November 5 general election.

Shortly after 6:00 PM last night, the New Jersey Supreme Court handed down a 7-0 ruling granting the Democrats' request that Torricelli's name be removed from the ballot and replaced with a candidate selected by the party's state committee.

The ruling came after lawyers for both major parties, as well as representatives from the third parties on this year's ballot, argued their cases before the Court late yesterday morning.

Republicans had fought the removal of Torricelli's name because, according to state election law, the deadline for such removal is 51 days before the election. Torricelli withdrew just 36 days prior to the election.
[snip]


Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:17:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By mac130:
Never heard of newsmax. Hope they got their shit straight and this true.



kind of a tin foil site

sometimes accurate, but what they report, is usually not covered in the mainstream media, so it has no backing.

They may be correct, but telling someone the things you find there will get you labeled as a nutball if they haven't heard it elsewhere.

TXL



TxLewis, I cant believe you said that. Because its not covered in the Liberal Mainstream media it has no backing???? Are you kidding me? I have been reading Newsmax for years and I can assure you they are not a "tin foil site" An the only people who would label you a nutball are the same liberal scum who attack anybody who dosnt toe their politicaly correct agenda.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:21:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Brisk322:

Originally Posted By 4get_No1:
Nice respect for a moderator . Why not state your opinion regarding a relationship between Kerry and Toricelli? I, for one, would be interested in knowing more about that.



Excerpt from
http://www.politicsnj.com/korancki100302_Senate.htm

New Dem candidate wins in court while Forrester bashes the Lautenberg-Torricelli team

By STEVE KORNACKI

PoliticsNJ.com

TRENTON, October 3, 2002 - A unanimous ruling by the state's highest court yesterday cleared the way for former Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg to replace Robert Torricelli as the Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate. The decision has Republicans crying foul, and promising to appeal the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Lautenberg, who spent eighteen years in the U.S. Senate before retiring in 2000, will face Republican businessman Douglas R. Forrester in the November 5 general election.

Shortly after 6:00 PM last night, the New Jersey Supreme Court handed down a 7-0 ruling granting the Democrats' request that Torricelli's name be removed from the ballot and replaced with a candidate selected by the party's state committee.

The ruling came after lawyers for both major parties, as well as representatives from the third parties on this year's ballot, argued their cases before the Court late yesterday morning.

Republicans had fought the removal of Torricelli's name because, according to state election law, the deadline for such removal is 51 days before the election. Torricelli withdrew just 36 days prior to the election.
[snip]





They'd have to repeat this feat in 50 states to get it done for a Presidential election. No way would they be able to get a favorable ruling 50 times.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:28:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Brisk322:

Originally Posted By 4get_No1:
Nice <snip>


Excerpt from
http://www.politicsnj.com/korancki100302_Senate.htm <snip>



Thanks Brisk,
This is interesting from a NJ perspective so the cite is appreciated and I'll back off now since Torricelli is off-topic. On-topic - Navy goes after Kerry medals huh?
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:32:31 AM EST
Ok....let me try to explain something here, being a resident of NJ. When Hiram said it was the most corrupt state in the country with regards to politics...he was being NICE!

The 'swap' was a result of two things.......the specificty (or lack thereof) of the law that covers the process of candidate substitution, AND MOST SPECIFICALLY the NJ Supreme Court. The only other Court in the land that stoops as low, puts out arguments as specious and lacking in any rational legal basis, would be the Ninth Circus. Considering Federal Election laws, and the US Supremes (who when compared to the NJ Supreme Court look like abunch of Libertarian isolationists!), Hiram is right. The chances of it actually happened are for the most part statistically non-existant. It ain't gonna happen.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:40:10 AM EST
Hey TexLewis hears another non main stream piece so therfore has no "backing"

By Ann Coulter:

The New York Times has a new typewriter key for the Swift Boat Veterans story that reads: "the unsubstantiated charges of the Swift Boat Veterans."

Unsubstantiated? It was Kerry – not the Swift Boat Veterans – who told The Washington Post: "I wish they had a delete button on LexisNexis." The Swift Boat Veterans haven't been forced to retract any of their story. Meanwhile, John Kerry has been issuing about a retraction a day since the Swift Boat Veterans started talking.



Most recently, Kerry has had to backpedal on the circumstances surrounding his first Purple Heart. Kerry has described the action on Dec. 2, 1968, for which he received a Purple Heart as his "first intense combat." The Swift Boat veterans say Kerry came under no enemy fire that day and that his injury, such as it was, resulted from the ricochet of a grenade fired by Kerry himself. (This rules out the Purple Heart but does qualify him for another "Boy, is my face red" citation, with clusters.)

Among the eyewitnesses who say Kerry came under no enemy fire on Dec. 2, 1968, is John Kerry himself. According to Douglas Brinkley's book, "Tour of Duty," Kerry wrote in his diary nine days later, on Dec. 11, 1968: "We hadn't been shot at yet." His campaign is still trying to figure out how to claim that Kerry couldn't have known this because he wasn't even on his own swiftboat at the time.

A Kerry campaign official first explained the discrepancy by essentially explaining that it depends on what the meaning of "we" is. Kerry, the official said, apparently had a nontraditional understanding of the word "we" to mean: "others not including me." "We": another two-letter word successfully parsed by a Democrat!

Another Kerry campaign official, John Hurley, has since admitted that it is "possible" that Kerry's first Purple Heart came from a self-inflicted wound.

The Kerry campaign has refused to release Kerry's personal Vietnam archive, including his journals and letters, saying that the senator was contractually bound to grant Kerry hagiographer Doug Brinkley exclusive access to the material. But then Brinkley said the papers are the property of the senator and in his full control. Still, no records.

On the bright side, the Kerry campaign is considering releasing the director's cut of Kerry's own filmed re-enactments of his war "heroics" – which, by the way, makes Kerry the first person ever to form a war re-enactment club during the actual war.

Kerry had long maintained that he did not attend the 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War in Kansas City, Mo., where the assassination of U.S. senators was discussed. Kerry campaign spokesman David Wade said, "Kerry was not at the Kansas City meeting." Later, FBI files showed Kerry was at the meeting. Now Kerry admits he was there.

So I think that means John Kerry attended as many V.V.A.W. meetings at which the assassination of U.S. senators was discussed as he did meetings of the Senate Intelligence Committee on which he later sat.

And let's not forget that Kerry was caught telling a big, dirty, stinky lie about being in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. What kind of adult tells a lie like that? (Answer: The kind who carries a home-movie camera to war in order to re-enact combat scenes and tape fake interviews with himself.)

One of the principal witnesses for Kerry's version of his heroics in Vietnam is Jim Rassman, who says Kerry "saved his life" after a Viet Cong mine knocked Rassman off his boat. Though Kerry would have us believe that – in addition to being baby killers – his fellow servicemen were planning on leaving Rassman to die, several eyewitnesses say another boat was about 20 yards behind Kerry's boat in getting to Rassman. (Kerry's boat was positioned slightly closer to Rassman because the moment the mine exploded, Kerry's boat fled the scene and returned only when Kerry was certain there was no enemy fire.)

It is indisputable that other men were being pulled out of the water right and left after a Viet Cong mine blew one of the swiftboats four feet in the air. How come none of those guys got Bronze Stars? Did they pull men out of the water in a less heroic way?

The way Kerry and Rassman tell it, you would think Kerry saved Rassman's life by staging a daring, high-speed commando raid on a prisoner of war camp. I was pulled from churning surfs a dozen times before I was 10 years old, each time exclaiming, "YOU SAVED MY LIFE!" but I'm not seeking out the people who fished me out of the water and demanding that they run for president.

In determining whose memory is more accurate, it's worth mentioning that Kerry and Rassman can't even get their stories straight about whose boat Rassman was on. Among the many accounts out there are these:

In his own Aug. 10, 2004, Wall Street Journal op-ed, Rassman says he was on Kerry's boat: "The second blast blew me off John's swiftboat, PCF-94 ..."

But according to the Kerry campaign press release: "On March 13, 1969, Rassman, a Green Beret, was traveling down the Bay Hap river in a boat behind Kerry's when both were ambushed by exploding land mines and enemy fire coming from the shore."

On Page 106 of the book "John F. Kerry, The Official Biography by the Boston Globe Reporters Who Know Him Best," Rassman is on a boat behind Kerry's.

In his Kerry campaign pamphlet, "Tour of Duty," hagiographer Brinkley resolves the conflicting accounts by having Rassman fall off both the boat that hit the mine (PCF-3) and Kerry's boat. (What would we do without historians?)

Another account has Rassman on the S.S. Minnow stubbornly insisting that Kerry's service in Vietnam consisted of just a three-hour tour ... a three-hour tour ...

Perhaps like the many and various meanings of the word "we," liberals use the word "unsubstantiated" to mean "tested repeatedly and proved true."

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:45:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 10:51:17 AM EST by JIMBEAM]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.



Makes you wonder why the GOP waited till now to go after Kerry.

Maybe it doesn't matter if you lie about your metals if you throw them away later.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:51:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.



Makes you wonder why the GOP waited till now to go after Kerry. hr


Because now is when people are starting to pay attention and man it is hurting him bad!
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:53:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By CamoGhost:
[Kerry qualified for a] "Boy, is my face red" citation, with clusters...



Owned!

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 11:09:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 11:10:34 AM EST by 4get_No1]
Kerry brought shame upon all VN vets, most especially USN vets. Then Lehman becomes aware of shame brought upon him personally and said WTF? Now USN is aware and is also saying WTF? Should anyone believe Bush forced USN to do this? Nooooooo. NO WAY! Not required. USN should handle this just fine & no political pressure necessary. Thank you!

Yep - USN vet & proud too.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 11:13:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
They'd have to repeat this feat in 50 states to get it done for a Presidential election. No way would they be able to get a favorable ruling 50 times.



I agree with everything stated about the legality of a Kerry change and that it would never be successful. But, after seeing the Dems in action the past 4 years, I can see the following sequence of events:

1) It becomes obvious after the first debate that Kerry is going to lose and the election won't even be close.
2) Some sort of pretext (a recurrence of Kerry's cancer?) is used as an excuse for him to "step down".
3) Some bogus candidate is put forward ala Jean Carnahan while court challenges are made.
4) Most courts will reject it, as you suggest. There will be enough partisan hacks that the rejections will not be unanimous (ala FLA 2000), and some of the more liberal state courts may uphold it.
5) The election will take place and Bush will win. The Dems will use the confusion to continue their slurs about "illegitimacy" and "selected, not elected".

I recall reading something awhile ago about how, contrary to all the rhetoric about how "9/11 changed everything", the most consequential event in America since the fall of the USSR was the FLA recount. I believe it. I can see the Dems attacking any process that doesn't end with them winning as "illegitimate". Look at the bullshit with the McGreevy resigination. How can someone resign an office with an effective date 90 days in the future, purely as a means of manipulating the system? They may not pull it off, but it's pretty shameless to even try. I wouldn't put anything past these people.
Remember, HRC in 2008 is the goal, and an "illegitimate" GWB 2nd term would be a great fundraising tool.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 12:16:40 PM EST
Get a grip! I didn't say anything about assassination and indeed think it's as rideculous as you do. Maybe you were confused by the .. just so you know, it was directed at the Supreme Court of NJ, not you.

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By jblachly:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why is it people keep floating the ridiculous notion of the DNC dumping Kerry from the ticket. HELLO, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Kerry is the legal nominee. His name appears on the ballot. The filing deadlines have passed. He has received and spent/is spending the federal funds allocated for campaigning. He could drop from the ticket, but his name still appears on the ballot. Any attempt to change the ballots would require court orders, and here is a clue people, courts will not become part of changing a ballot just because it looks like a candidate can't win. It would undermine the entire electoral process. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.




They did in New Jersey...



For Christ's sake! New Jersey is an exception, NOT the rule! New Jersey has one of the most corrupt political systems in the nation.

Hello! You would need to change 50 state ballots. And if you didn't, you stand to split the electors who support the dems if the state goes for Kerry or whomever the dem candidate is. Let me spell it out for you. Mass and NY are two blue states. Let's assume Kerry is dropped and replaced with Hillary. Let's assume Kerry gets replaced on Mass's ballot, but the NY ballot is unchanged because the republican state committee launches a successful challenge in court. election day rolls around, the dems take Mass and NY... but Mass's electors go to Hillary and NY's go to Kerry. Now it comes to count the number of electors and say nobody gets a clear majority... where does it go to be decided? CONGRESS!

Never mind what happens in the swing states when independents see what is going on and say fuck the Democrats who aren't selling a better candidate, they are just selling the candidate who can most likely win at any cost. Hello, this would be political suicide at this stage of the game.

And for the people in the Clinton administration that died under suspicious circumstances... HOW MANY WERE UNDER SECRET SERVICE PROTECTION AND 24 HOUR MEDIA COVERAGE?

Damn it people, think! When you advocate these theories you look foolish. It doesn't serve our side well at all... just as similar conspiracy theories on DU make the left look bad in independent voters' minds.

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