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Posted: 7/4/2002 4:42:43 PM EST
Somebody asked about this in an earlier thread and I just happened to run up on this article at TV Guide Online. It's a couple years old by the way. Natalie Portman, who played the courageous warrior Queen Amadala in The Phantom Menace, is furiously denying charges that she's a real-life draft-dodger. Israeli citizens must serve 21 months in the army when they turn 18. Born in Jerusalem, Portman, 18, was recently interviewed by journalist Avner Bernheimer for Yediot Achronoth, Israel's largest daily newspaper. "I consider myself an Israeli, but I am not 100 percent, so I have not served. I got an army call up last year which I passed on," Portman, whose family emigrated when she was 3, was quoted as saying. The actress, who grew up on Long Island and attends college in Boston, said: "I did deliberate. I had that inner battle. But if I had gone to the army now, it would have postponed my college studies until I was 21. Also, my parents surely wouldn't have been happy if I had gone into the army." Portman, who visits Israel five times a year, also talked about how she tried to stay away from stereotypical "Israeli" roles: "Israelis are aggressive and not sensitive to having other people around. When I arrive in Israel I know I will be pushed and people will cut lines." Portman's spokeswoman fumes that the article is an outrageous fabrication, and that she was never interviewed. "They made up the quotes. She was never notified by the army for service," said Kelly Bush, who adds that Portman is "exempt from the army." Bush said the Portmans didn't complain about the story earlier because it would "stir things up." Bernheimer couldn't be reached for comment. Uri Dan, the Post's Israel correspondent, said Bernheimer and the paper have solid reputations for accuracy. An official at the Israeli consulate in New York said: "If [Portman] left the country with her parents before she was 16 and if she does not live in Israel, she would not be required to serve in the army." Notification or not, some say Portman still has a duty to serve her country of birth. Dr. Mark Klein, a psychiatrist in Berkeley, Cal., has a 19 year-old daughter who claimed her citizenship last year through the "law of return" act. She is now serving in the Israeli army. Klein said, "I think it's disreputable to dodge the draft to make $20 million doing a movie. [Portman] is an Israeli citizen. Israel is still at war and in danger. She's letting down her country and the state of Israel."
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 4:50:20 PM EST
I think I recall someone posting here that she got around serving by doing training films or something for the Israeli army...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 4:52:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 4:56:44 PM EST
I will allow the draft dodger to hide out in my cellar if she wears that sexy little white bodysuit she had on in Episode II.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 4:58:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 4:59:43 PM EST by cgwahl]
[img]http://www.episode-x.com/episode2/gallery/img/oswfc25/30.jpg[/img] Heres your gun hating draft dodging bitch, Legs.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:01:11 PM EST
drafts are stupid. Why can't they have a normal volunteer army like we do? I know a guy who's an incoming freshman at Cornell and he's a IDF reservist. He hates putting on his uniform, but he has to do it cause he lives in Israel. Why should someone who's an US citizen have to serve in a foreign army if they don't want to? I hate this mandatory draft crap. Another guy that I know who's also an incoming freshman is Taiwanese, but lives in the US. He can never visit Taiwan for over a month or he'd get drafted.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:04:06 PM EST
The actress, who grew up on Long Island and attends college in Boston....... An official at the Israeli consulate in New York said: "If [Portman] left the country with her parents before she was 16 and if she does not live in Israel, she would not be required to serve in the army."
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If she grew up on Long Island, it sounds like she and her parents left before she was 16, so she is not obligated. Not defending her, but I no illegality nor does the Israeli government.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:08:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 5:10:20 PM EST by cgwahl]
Originally Posted By jz02: drafts are stupid. Why can't they have a normal volunteer army like we do? I know a guy who's an incoming freshman at Cornell and he's a IDF reservist. He hates putting on his uniform, but he has to do it cause he lives in Israel. Why should someone who's an US citizen have to serve in a foreign army if they don't want to? I hate this mandatory draft crap. Another guy that I know who's also an incoming freshman is Taiwanese, but lives in the US. He can never visit Taiwan for over a month or he'd get drafted.
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Technically the US still has the draft. We've just never had something bad enough happen recently to where we have to use it...or perhaps you didn't sign up for Selective Service like you were supposed to. Off topic, but as far as the draft goes, I'm neither for nor against it. I understand the reasons why we should have it and why we shouldn't. And keep in mind I'm 23 so I can still get picked up if the "shit hit the fan" if you will...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:09:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:20:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By jz02: drafts are stupid. Why can't they have a normal volunteer army like we do? I know a guy who's an incoming freshman at Cornell and he's a IDF reservist. He hates putting on his uniform, but he has to do it cause he lives in Israel.
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And if Israel didn't have mandatory service, it would likely not have the manpower necessary to defend itself. That mandatory service turns normal teenagers into self reliant human beings. If he doesn't like the fact that he has to do it to be an Israeli citizen, then he should renounce his citizenship and move somewhere else.
Why should someone who's an US citizen have to serve in a foreign army if they don't want to?
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You just said he was Israeli. Living here does not equal citizenship. Israel may recognize dual citizenship, but the U.S. certainly doesn't.
I hate this mandatory draft crap. Another guy that I know who's also an incoming freshman is Taiwanese, but lives in the US. He can never visit Taiwan for over a month or he'd get drafted.
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Thems the breaks. If they don't like it, they can always become citizens of the greatest nation God's earth, the United States of America! But personally, I think every graduating senior in the U.S. should be required to serve a 2 year term of service in order to receive federal financial aid or grants, especially given the extreme liberal slant on virtually every college campus in the U.S. It would show them what it can be like in the real world, which college does not do. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:29:21 PM EST
problem, I did get registered automatically for SS when I applied for federal aid. Second problem, they didn't give me any. So I just got registered and got nothing in return. My problem with requiring service to be eligible for aid is that the current aid is all need based. So what if I served by my parents make too much money for me to qualify for aid? What then? You're gonna tell me that I just got shafted and tough luck? But if you're saying that we should give scholarships for service regardless of need, then that's essentially the ROTC program. I hate the idea of beign forced to do something, I'd rather do it voluntarily.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:31:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Israel may recognize dual citizenship, but the U.S. certainly doesn't.
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Yes it does. Your're right about residency not equalling citizenship though. And if the guy's a student then he's probably not a resident either. The F-1 student visa is not a resident visa, and any time spent in the U.S. on a student visa cannot be used to establish residency.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:44:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By jz02: problem, I did get registered automatically for SS when I applied for federal aid. Second problem, they didn't give me any. So I just got registered and got nothing in return.
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I got nothing in return??????? You feel no duty to serve to help maintain the security of the greatest nation on earth. Granted, we have problems, but it's still the greatest.
My problem with requiring service to be eligible for aid is that the current aid is all need based. So what if I served by my parents make too much money for me to qualify for aid? What then? You're gonna tell me that I just got shafted and tough luck? But if you're saying that we should give scholarships for service regardless of need, then that's essentially the ROTC program.
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Oh heaven forbid that aid would be needs based. Let's just give money to every puke who holds his/her hand out. Oh wait, don't we already do that.....welfare.
I hate the idea of beign forced to do something, I'd rather do it voluntarily.
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If I understand you, you would voluntarily serve but wouldn't serve if drafted. Say what???? I have noticed something about your posts. They are all about you and a lot of wah, wah, wah. I take it you are a college age person who has yet to really experience the world.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:45:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By jz02: problem, I did get registered automatically for SS when I applied for federal aid. Second problem, they didn't give me any. So I just got registered and got nothing in return.
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You did? When I registered in 1994 you had to already be registered to receive federal aid. Has that changed?
My problem with requiring service to be eligible for aid is that the current aid is all need based. So what if I served by my parents make too much money for me to qualify for aid? What then? You're gonna tell me that I just got shafted and tough luck? But if you're saying that we should give scholarships for service regardless of need, then that's essentially the ROTC program.
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No, the college ROTC program is designed to get well educated men and women into the armed service as officers and has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. This is not a long term commitment by any shape or form, just a two year term that teaches basic military training, teamwork, and self reliance.
I hate the idea of beign forced to do something, I'd rather do it voluntarily.
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Spoken like a true young person. You'll soon find out that the real world is full of things you'd rather not do but have no choice about. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:54:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Israel may recognize dual citizenship, but the U.S. certainly doesn't.
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Yes it does.
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Yes Israel does or yes the US does? Someone naturalized in the US must renounce their previous citizenship in order to gain US citizenship. Someone born in the US that is later naturalized elsewhere is not necessarily required to renounce their US citizenship, depending upon the laws of that country. But as far as the US is concerned, that person is still a citizen of the US, regardless of what other citizenships they may hold. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 5:59:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 6:06:03 PM EST by DoomPatrol]
The way I understand it is she's still an Israeli citizen. While she's lived here long enough to be a U.S. citizen she has no desire to be legally. Since she lives permanently outside of Israel and not on a temporary visa she's exempt from the draft. However being a Israeli citizen makes her immediately eligible for the draft if any of her visits to Israel exceed four months. What gets on my nerves is she's enjoying the best of both worlds while at the same time feels free to slam Israel while she's in the U.S. and slams the U.S. while in Israel. But guaranteed her ass is out of Israel before those four months are up. I can't help but feel she would do the same here if we got into some really serious trouble. She'd probably head for Aussie land.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:09:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 6:14:47 PM EST by cgwahl]
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Israel may recognize dual citizenship, but the U.S. certainly doesn't.
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Yes it does.
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Yes Israel does or yes the US does? Someone naturalized in the US must renounce their previous citizenship in order to gain US citizenship. Someone born in the US that is later naturalized elsewhere is not necessarily required to renounce their US citizenship, depending upon the laws of that country. But as far as the US is concerned, that person is still a citizen of the US, regardless of what other citizenships they may hold. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
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The US recognizes dual citizenship. Don't agree with it and don't know why it is but it does. And the auto registered into SSS when getting the FASFA grant, I think thats true as well. I turned 18 before graduating high school so I was already registered but I believe there was something you had to check that asked are you registered or not, and if you weren't, you check the box and then you're registered into the SSS...this was in 1997.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:10:23 PM EST
I think it's kind of unfair that some people get around the draft and yet others like myself would be very proud to serve, even in a reserve capacity, but I can't because I'm too old. (What? 37 is too old? You've GOT to be kidding me. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!) As for Natalie Portman, did you see her on the Letterman show a few nights ago? She looked totally awesome! I don't care if she dodged the Israeli draft or not. She didn't dodge the American draft, and that's the only one I give a hoot about. And I doubt she's particularly anti-gun or she'd have found a way to NOT use any guns in either of the Star Wars movies, and if you'll go get the movie "The Professional" and watch it, she handles a rifle fairly well in that one, and she couldn't have been more than fifteen at the time. CJ
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:17:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: I think it's kind of unfair that some people get around the draft and yet others like myself would be very proud to serve, even in a reserve capacity, but I can't because I'm too old. (What? 37 is too old? You've GOT to be kidding me. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!) As for Natalie Portman, did you see her on the Letterman show a few nights ago? She looked totally awesome! I don't care if she dodged the Israeli draft or not. She didn't dodge the American draft, and that's the only one I give a hoot about. And I doubt she's particularly anti-gun or she'd have found a way to NOT use any guns in either of the Star Wars movies, and if you'll go get the movie "The Professional" and watch it, she handles a rifle fairly well in that one, and she couldn't have been more than fifteen at the time. CJ
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Yeah, but she hates guns. Doesn't mind using them in movies but to her their evil I guess. As far as dodging the draft...LOOK AT HER!!! She's to pretty to serve. Sure she might look good in the uniform but still...[:)]
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:26:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By jz02: problem, I did get registered automatically for SS when I applied for federal aid. Second problem, they didn't give me any. So I just got registered and got nothing in return. My problem with requiring service to be eligible for aid is that the current aid is all need based. So what if I served by my parents make too much money for me to qualify for aid? What then? You're gonna tell me that I just got shafted and tough luck? But if you're saying that we should give scholarships for service regardless of need, then that's essentially the ROTC program. I hate the idea of beign forced to do something, I'd rather do it voluntarily.
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Registering for selective service is a small price to pay for the freedoms that you enjoy. Millions of men have made sacrifices, endured hardships, and given their lives so that you don't have to. Whining about having to register for selective service does a disservice to those men. If you really want scholarships or financial aid, earn it by serving your country. Nothing in life is free!
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:27:01 PM EST
Ok, I'll step up and help her. She can serve her time sitting on my face! [:D]
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:32:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: I think it's kind of unfair that some people get around the draft and yet others like myself would be very proud to serve, even in a reserve capacity, but I can't because I'm too old. (What? 37 is too old? You've GOT to be kidding me. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!) As for Natalie Portman, did you see her on the Letterman show a few nights ago? She looked totally awesome! I don't care if she dodged the Israeli draft or not. She didn't dodge the American draft, and that's the only one I give a hoot about. And I doubt she's particularly anti-gun or she'd have found a way to NOT use any guns in either of the Star Wars movies, and if you'll go get the movie "The Professional" and watch it, she handles a rifle fairly well in that one, and she couldn't have been more than fifteen at the time. CJ
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Actually, I am pretty sure that she was 12 when she made that movie.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:02:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 7:11:02 PM EST by DoomPatrol]
Originally Posted By s0ulzer0: Ok, I'll step up and help her. She can serve her time sitting on my face! [:D]
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LMAO! Let us know if it's furry or shaved.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:11:44 PM EST
The problem with drafting is that you get under-motivated soldiers. They won't give a rat's ass about the job you assign them to do. Can you really trust people to do these jobs when they don't really care whether they do a good job? After all, it's only a 2 year stint, if I were in that situation I'd be more interested in hooking up with female soldiers than doing the job. Would you trust some high school graduate who's more interested in flirting with his female collegues with your life? If you draft everyone you're just going to turn the military into a huge high school or college.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:14:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Israel may recognize dual citizenship, but the U.S. certainly doesn't.
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Yes it does.
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Yes Israel does or yes the US does?
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Yes the US does.
Someone naturalized in the US must renounce their previous citizenship in order to gain US citizenship.
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Yes, if they were to be naturalized. However; if I as a foreign citizen, of a country that recognizes dual citizenship, marry a U.S. citizen I can allpy for dual citizenship. But if I apply for U.S. citizenship solely based on residency (say I've lived and worked in the U.S. as a resident for 5 years) then I'll have to surrender my native citizenship.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:18:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By cgwahl: The US recognizes dual citizenship. Don't agree with it and don't know why it is but it does.
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Why not?
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:33:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By cgwahl: The US recognizes dual citizenship. Don't agree with it and don't know why it is but it does.
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Why not?
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It just doesn't make sense to me to be able to be a citizen of two countries. Say the US and Britain or something. Heres something I found thats interesting: [url]http://usembassy.state.gov/seoul/wwwh3002.html[/url]
The Supreme Court of the United States has stated that dual nationality is "a status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both. The mere fact that he [sic] asserts the rights of one citizenship does not without more mean that he renounces the other" (see Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717 [1952] ).
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Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:49:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Israel may recognize dual citizenship, but the U.S. certainly doesn't.
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Yes it does.
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Yes Israel does or yes the US does?
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Yes the US does.
Someone naturalized in the US must renounce their previous citizenship in order to gain US citizenship.
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Yes, if they were to be naturalized. However; if I as a foreign citizen, of a country that recognizes dual citizenship, marry a U.S. citizen I can allpy for dual citizenship. But if I apply for U.S. citizenship solely based on residency (say I've lived and worked in the U.S. as a resident for 5 years) then I'll have to surrender my native citizenship.
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You can have dual citizenship. My wife has U.S. citizenship because her father is US born and she has Swiss citizenship as her mother is Swiss and the Swiss govt. considers her a citizen though she has never lived there longer than a couple summers. She has two passports and can travel as a Swiss citizen. I don't see what the big deal is. She didn't have to serve in the Swiss military as she never was a resident of the country. Though her uncle had a beautiful SIG rifle in the closet. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:50:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By cgwahl:
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By cgwahl: The US recognizes dual citizenship. Don't agree with it and don't know why it is but it does.
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Why not?
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It just doesn't make sense to me to be able to be a citizen of two countries. Say the US and Britain or something.
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Okay. How about this way then: Say you come to the U.S. from a foreign country. You live and work in the U.S., you pay your taxes and contribute to society just like every other American. But, at the same time you have your family and relatives in your native country. and you still want to be able to excercise all your rights of a native in that country too. That's when the dual citizenship is a good thing. For a lot of people who come here it's a question of giving up their heritage. Just as they are proud of becoming U.S. citizens they still don't want to lose the ties to the country of their birth. And if they, as some people tend to do, decide to return to their birth country when they are old, so that they can be buried with their family, they can do so as citizens of that country. (There's a fair amount of red tape for a non-citizen to be buried in a different country.) It's also very handy if you travel alot. If you have dual citizenship with a country in Europe you can travel freely within the European Union on your european passport, and when you want to enter the U.S. you use your U.S. passport.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:56:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ratters: You can have dual citizenship. My wife has U.S. citizenship because her father is US born and she has Swiss citizenship as her mother is Swiss and the Swiss govt. considers her a citizen though she has never lived there longer than a couple summers.
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Yes, but that's not really an option - you can't chose to have your parents be of different citizenships. But yeah, you can have dual citizenship by birth. I have a few friends that have this (U.S./Spanish, U.S./Swiss, etc).
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 9:03:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 9:10:45 PM EST by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By Ratters: You can have dual citizenship. My wife has U.S. citizenship because her father is US born and she has Swiss citizenship as her mother is Swiss and the Swiss govt. considers her a citizen though she has never lived there longer than a couple summers. She has two passports and can travel as a Swiss citizen. I don't see what the big deal is. She didn't have to serve in the Swiss military as she never was a resident of the country. Though her uncle had a beautiful SIG rifle in the closet. [:)]
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I didn't say you couldn't have a dual citizenship. I said the US government doesn't recognize them. As far as they are concerned you are simply a US citizen, and subject to the laws that all US citizens are held to, regardless of whether you also have citizenships with Switzerland, Canada, or wherever else. This applies to US born citizens who naturalize in other countries that don't have renouncing of citizenship clauses in their naturalization laws. But as far as the US is concerned, you ar simply an American citizen. The only time the US cares about other citizenship is if you are not born here and wish to become a naturalized citizen. You are required by US law to renounce your previous citizenship as part of the naturalization process. How some people didn't understand that in my previous post is beyond me. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 9:13:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: I didn't say you couldn't have a dual citizenship. I said the US government doesn't recognize them. As far as they are concerned you are simply a US citizen, and subject to the laws that all US citizens are held to, regardless of whether you also have citizenships with Switzerland, Canada, or wherever else. This applies to US born citizens who naturalize in other countries that don't have renouncing of citizenship clauses in their naturalization laws. But as far as the US is concerned, you ar simply an American citizen. The only time the US cares about other citizenship is if you are not born here and wish to become a naturalized citizen. You are required by US law to renounce your previous citizenship as part of the naturalization process. How some people didn't understand that in my previous post is beyond me. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
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Pardon my missunderstanding. [:)] BTW, is Natalie Portman a US citizen? I think she is one of those people that is good looking enough to get a pass on just about anything. [;)] Hell, Rebecca Gayhart killed a kid and got a pass, and she is not half as good looking.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 9:30:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ratters:
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: I didn't say you couldn't have a dual citizenship. I said the US government doesn't recognize them. As far as they are concerned you are simply a US citizen, and subject to the laws that all US citizens are held to, regardless of whether you also have citizenships with Switzerland, Canada, or wherever else. This applies to US born citizens who naturalize in other countries that don't have renouncing of citizenship clauses in their naturalization laws. But as far as the US is concerned, you ar simply an American citizen. The only time the US cares about other citizenship is if you are not born here and wish to become a naturalized citizen. You are required by US law to renounce your previous citizenship as part of the naturalization process. How some people didn't understand that in my previous post is beyond me. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
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Pardon my missunderstanding. [:)]
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Sorry. Sometimes I get the impression that I don't speak english sometimes. Generally it's when I'm really tired. [:D] I'm operating on 4 hours of sleep and 14 hours awake. Did I mention I get kind of agitated when I'm tired?
BTW, is Natalie Portman a US citizen? I think she is one of those people that is good looking enough to get a pass on just about anything. [;)]
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She does not hold a US citizenship that I'm aware of and neither do her parents. I think she's cute, but as cute as she is she is still anti-gun. And that makes her my enemy. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 11:10:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 11:12:34 PM EST by skullworks]
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: I didn't say you couldn't have a dual citizenship. I said the US government doesn't recognize them.
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Yes it does.
As far as they are concerned you are simply a US citizen, and subject to the laws that all US citizens are held to, regardless of whether you also have citizenships with Switzerland, Canada, or wherever else.
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No matter which country you find yourself in you are subject to the laws and regulations of that country. (So yelling "I'm an American citizen, you can't do this to me!" is just as likely to get you off the hook as if you were to sing X-mas carols or the latest by Britney Spears (though I'd personally cap you if you sung Britney Spears anywhere close to me.)) This has nothing to do with citizenship. Citizenship and residency dictates where and how much you pay in taxes, what kind of jobs you're able to get, and a whole bunch of other things that the U.S. government is more than a little interested in. so to say that they don't recognize them is BS. The following is from the U.S. State Department's website ([url]http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.html[/url):
"The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth. A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.
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(cont)
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 11:11:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 11:12:57 PM EST by skullworks]
(cont)
"Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance. However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship. Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad."
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Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:29:23 AM EST
I DIDNT KNOW SHE WAS A JEW! QBANG!
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:25:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 1:29:54 PM EST by Redmanfms]
Originally Posted By jz02: problem, I did get registered automatically for SS when I applied for federal aid. Second problem, they didn't give me any. So I just got registered and got nothing in return.
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You are required by law to register within one month after your 18th birthday regardless of what "aid" you are getting.
My problem with requiring service to be eligible for aid is that the current aid is all need based.
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What's the saying again? No free lunch. Don't like it, leave. You won't be missed.
So what if I served by my parents make too much money for me to qualify for aid?
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You must register for the Selective Service even if you are not receiving aid. That's the law. Even the rich kids are required to register.
What then? You're gonna tell me that I just got shafted and tough luck?
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No, I'm going to say that you are an ignorant jackass who should learn more about the law before opening his big fucking mouth.
But if you're saying that we should give scholarships for service regardless of need, then that's essentially the ROTC program.
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Duh dipshit. You are getting money and you AREN'T FUCKING serving. Those who get ROTC scholarships are required to do a certain number of years of service or pay back the money that was lent them by the government.
I hate the idea of beign forced to do something, I'd rather do it voluntarily.
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So do I, the problem is that you are getting your panties in a wad for the wrong reason. You HAVE TO register even if you don't receive aid. I did, and everbody on this board born after 1980 had to as well.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:33:33 PM EST
[img]http://image.imgfarm.com/images/gossip/celebrities/06112002natalie.jpg[/img] But that ugly kevlar helmet would mess up her hair!
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:35:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Pontius: [img]http://image.imgfarm.com/images/gossip/celebrities/06112002natalie.jpg[/img] But that ugly kevlar helmet would mess up her hair!
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So would the emissions from my . . .
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:36:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By cgwahl: Technically the US still has the draft.
Actually, no. We have Selective Service, which is merely a list of males who are "available" for a draft, if we ever decide to go that route again. The draft is long gone, and it will take some legislative action to re-institute it.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:52:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 1:53:43 PM EST by Chimborazo]
Dual citizen or not, you are still supposed to travel on your U.S. passport. I have dual citizenship, but not really by choice. There is no way I can renounce Egyptian citizenship, although I no longer have a A.R.E. passport, ID card, etc. Simply being the son of an Egyptian man makes me Egyptian for life. The last time I was there, the immigration officer told me I did not need a visa even though I was travelling on a U.S. passport, so he wrote "Of Egyptian Origin" over my entry stamp. He was trying to be helpful, but I am a draft dodger, so I could have been detained upon exit (but I wasn't). I've been back once since then, and I still got a visa before I left. Nobody gave me a hard time about it though...maybe they thought I already served, or maybe they didn't care. Okay, I said it. I'm a draft dodger. But I make up for it by not being a draught dodger.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:53:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 1:56:29 PM EST by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: I didn't say you couldn't have a dual citizenship. I said the US government doesn't recognize them.
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Yes it does.
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Then in what capacity does it recognize them?
No matter which country you find yourself in you are subject to the laws and regulations of that country. (So yelling "I'm an American citizen, you can't do this to me!" is just as likely to get you off the hook as if you were to sing X-mas carols or the latest by Britney Spears (though I'd personally cap you if you sung Britney Spears anywhere close to me.)) This has nothing to do with citizenship. Citizenship and residency dictates where and how much you pay in taxes, what kind of jobs you're able to get, and a whole bunch of other things that the U.S. government is more than a little interested in. so to say that they don't recognize them is BS.
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The tax codes aren't law? Remind me to tell that to the BATF. And please tell my friends who have dual citizenships and the guy who maintains the dual citizenship FAQ that they're wrong. Enron had many dual citizens, but as far as the US government was concerned they were soleley US citizens for all intents and purposes. Last time I checked, the naturalization process of the US required renouncement of your previous citizenship via the Oath of Allegience where it says you give up all allegiances to other countries. Please feel free to check the INS document "A Guide to Naturalization" at [url]http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/services/natz/insfnl.pdf[/url]. The Oath of Allegiance (first clause) [i]I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignity, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;..."[/i] The key word there is heretofore. From your own example... The following is from the U.S. State Department's website ([url]http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.html[/url): "U.S. law does not mention dual nationality..." That speaks for itself. As far as the US is concerned, you are a US citizen regardless of whether you carry an aditional citizenship with another country. The only time they do care is if you are becoming a naturalized citizen and must renounce your citizenship to other countries. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:56:25 PM EST
She's hot.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:56:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Originally Posted By cgwahl: Technically the US still has the draft.
Actually, no. We have Selective Service, which is merely a list of males who are "available" for a draft, if we ever decide to go that route again. The draft is long gone, and it will take some legislative action to re-institute it.
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Like I said, technically. Its not called the draft anymore, but for all intents and purposes, it is the draft. Sure, they gave it a nicer sounding name and won't be used unless the shit hits the fan to where there aren't enough people to serve it won't be used. And Congress or whomever has to say lets use that list...but in its basic form/level, it is the draft.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 1:59:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Pontius: [img]http://image.imgfarm.com/images/gossip/celebrities/06112002natalie.jpg[/img] But that ugly kevlar helmet would mess up her hair!
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Yes, but she might look good in a uniform...anyone good enough in photoshop to turn that Star Wars costume into an Israeli one? hehe.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 2:04:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Israel may recognize dual citizenship, but the U.S. certainly doesn't.
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From my passport: [b][u]DUAL NATIONALS.[/u] A person is considered a Dual National when he owes allegiance to more than one country at the same time. A claim to allegiance may be based on facts of birth, marraige, parentage, or naturalization. A dual national may, while in the jurisdiction of the other country which considers that person its national, be subject to all of its laws, including being conscripted for military service. Dual nationals who encounter problems should contact the nearest American embassy or consulate.[/b] So yes, the US does indeed recognize dual-citizenship, and yes, dual citizens CAN be compelled to serve in the military of the other country.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 2:07:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By skullworks:
Originally Posted By cgwahl: The US recognizes dual citizenship. Don't agree with it and don't know why it is but it does.
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Why not?
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Divided loyalties--you're either an American, or you aren't--there shouldn't be a middle ground.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 2:45:38 PM EST
Natalie Portman is hot. Just imagine her when she is 25-40 and looking her very best.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:11:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By jz02: The problem with drafting is that you get under-motivated soldiers. They won't give a rat's ass about the job you assign them to do. Can you really trust people to do these jobs when they don't really care whether they do a good job? After all, it's only a 2 year stint, if I were in that situation I'd be more interested in hooking up with female soldiers than doing the job. Would you trust some high school graduate who's more interested in flirting with his female collegues with your life? If you draft everyone you're just going to turn the military into a huge high school or college.
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If the cause of the Israeli Army was just (like the US army) then you would have no shortage of volunteers (like the US army). In case you're not aware, morale in the Israeli Army is very low right now, there are protests in what is happening in the Palestinian territories by Israeli citizens and soldiers alike. So they have to forcibly draft them into service. I can understand the benefits of conscription, but really, who wants to join an army that shoots tank shells at groups of children (among their other atrocities)? (Of course some US army soldiers just ran over two schoolgirls in South Korea a few weeks ago, so our boys are not exactly angels either.)
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:57:11 PM EST
So what if she is a draft dodger? Drafts are immoral and violate the right to liberty. Remember- The government serves us, we do NOT serve the government.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 10:04:00 PM EST
and she's hot. ummm-kay?
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