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Posted: 10/26/2013 6:43:06 AM EST


Maybe UPS?
Schools are broke
USPS is broke
GM is broke


Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:44:32 AM EST
All of the legacy of the Bell System. (AT&T)
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:49:51 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
All of the legacy of the Bell System. (AT&T)
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Who are they better than?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:51:21 AM EST
Boeing
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:55:15 AM EST
As an engineer/construction inspector/asst. building official; pretty much all the trades...

Concrete, electricians, plumbers, framers, iron workers, welders, ceilings...

Every guy down the chain knows how to read the prints and specs, as opposed to the non-union companies where it's only the Forman or guy in the trailer that does; saves me time and effort having to tell them what the plans say...
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:56:03 AM EST
Nothing really comes to mind. Unions are some serious baggage for a company to bear.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:59:34 AM EST
I am a non-union Estimator and Project manager for one of the largest mechanical contractors in NY. I ran a non-union company for 15 years.

The skillsets of unionized plumbers and pipefitters far exceed the non-union side.

They are also gracious for the work and have a clear understanding that when the job is done, they are done until the next one.

Non-union mechanicals that can candle work of the scale that we do are few and far between.

We are a VERY profitable company.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:22:50 AM EST
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Originally Posted By raven:
Boeing
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:23:19 AM EST
Costco
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:25:32 AM EST
The federal government.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:27:08 AM EST
Verizon
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:32:16 AM EST
Trade Unions can be very good.
Labor Unions are the ones that I have a problem with.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By grandnational007:
As an engineer/construction inspector/asst. building official; pretty much all the trades...

Concrete, electricians, plumbers, framers, iron workers, welders, ceilings...

Every guy down the chain knows how to read the prints and specs, as opposed to the non-union companies where it's only the Forman or guy in the trailer that does; saves me time and effort having to tell them what the plans say...
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:32:56 AM EST
Colt
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:34:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 7:34:52 AM EST by honorabledog]
How about Colt?

UPS has stayed highly profitable by fucking all their Management out of any and all benefits, raises and profit sharing programs.



Edit: beat by Capn
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:48:50 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
All of the legacy of the Bell System. (AT&T)
View Quote


Worked great until the government protected monopoly ended. The CWA contracts had a lot to do with the breakup after that though, and the subsequent sacrifice of innovation and market leadership in favor of selling off assets to keep the communists happy.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:59:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By grandnational007:
As an engineer/construction inspector/asst. building official; pretty much all the trades...

Concrete, electricians, plumbers, framers, iron workers, welders, ceilings...

Every guy down the chain knows how to read the prints and specs, as opposed to the non-union companies where it's only the Forman or guy in the trailer that does; saves me time and effort having to tell them what the plans say...
View Quote


I hate labor unions but trade unions and guilds is another story. They enforce and ensure their members meet minimum requirements. My grand parents house got flooded a few years ago. My grand father is a hard ass and hard to please. He was thrilled at the quality of work the trades guys did to repaid the damage.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:02:44 AM EST
Answer to OP's question is 87

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:08:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 8:11:08 AM EST by beardog30]
I have worked at a couple hospitals that were union that had a staff that would go far beyond many of the other hospitals I have worked at.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:14:53 AM EST
Southwest Airlines

Or. <insert your favorite airline here>


I know that airline travel isn't exactly enjoyable these days, but people don't appreciate the safety, convenience and economy offered by our airline industry. They take it for granted.

Unions have increased safety to a great degree over the years. Far more than Government regulations.

Ironically, they haven't done much to preserve our income, so thats another point in their favor (for the consumer).
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:16:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By MTUSA:


Maybe UPS?
Schools are broke
USPS is broke
GM is broke


View Quote

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:18:45 AM EST
Garlock Sealing Technologies. Profit margins average about 16% per year. except 2009.

Bilster

PS

Fuck Obama
Fuck Biden
Fuck Holder
Fuck Cuomo
Fuck Swinestain
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:20:38 AM EST
BOEING
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:21:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FNP90:
I am a non-union Estimator and Project manager for one of the largest mechanical contractors in NY. I ran a non-union company for 15 years.

The skillsets of unionized plumbers and pipefitters far exceed the non-union side.

They are also gracious for the work and have a clear understanding that when the job is done, they are done until the next one.

Non-union mechanicals that can candle work of the scale that we do are few and far between.

We are a VERY profitable company.
View Quote


Is this helpful attitude of the unions attributable to the free market competition they face?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:30:58 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


Worked great until the government protected monopoly ended. The CWA contracts had a lot to do with the breakup after that though, and the subsequent sacrifice of innovation and market leadership in favor of selling off assets to keep the communists happy.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
All of the legacy of the Bell System. (AT&T)


Worked great until the government protected monopoly ended. The CWA contracts had a lot to do with the breakup after that though, and the subsequent sacrifice of innovation and market leadership in favor of selling off assets to keep the communists happy.


Except it didn't work great. Go back and look at long distance rates and adjust them for inflation some time.

Yes, your old Western Electric Touch Tone phone was reliable. But the Bell Operating System was very resistant to new technology. And why not? They were a regulated monopoly with a guaranteed rate of return. Why go to the trouble of introducing new technology. Cellular phones and the internet would have been much delayed if the Bell monopoly hadn't been broken up. It's no accident that computer based communications exploded right after the Bell System breakup.


Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:32:42 AM EST
UPS.
I would imagine there are many unionized construction firms.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:35:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 8:38:48 AM EST by raven]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By walttx:
UPS.
I would imagine there are many unionized construction firms.
View Quote
I thought UPS broke its unions in the 90's. I remember they striked. One of my classmates was a driver who crossed the line was promoted into management, just a few years out of high school. I thought good for him.

I guess I was wrong about UPS breaking the union

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:40:01 AM EST
http://www.oshkoshcorporation.com/

suck it you slack jaw union hating faggots
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:40:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 8:41:21 AM EST by RhinelandArms]
Originally Posted By MTUSA:


Maybe UPS?
Schools are broke
USPS is broke
GM is broke


View Quote


Hate to bust your bubble but GM is pretty cash rich right now and doing very well.

I hate unions but Crescent is dam good and unionized, they are the only steel cutting tools I will buy for our company. Some business have a good relationship/partnership.

Schools are probably the biggest threat financially this country has right now, at least in the state of Texas. They are the totally uncontrolled monster in any room.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:40:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raven:
I thought UPS broke its unions in the 90's. I remember they striked. One of my classmates was a driver who crossed the line was promoted into management, just a few years out of high school. I thought good for him.

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By walttx:
UPS.
I would imagine there are many unionized construction firms.
I thought UPS broke its unions in the 90's. I remember they striked. One of my classmates was a driver who crossed the line was promoted into management, just a few years out of high school. I thought good for him.

I guess I was wrong about UPS breaking the union

son, once again you get caught thinking!
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:43:21 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By grandnational007:
As an engineer/construction inspector/asst. building official; pretty much all the trades...

Concrete, electricians, plumbers, framers, iron workers, welders, ceilings...

Every guy down the chain knows how to read the prints and specs, as opposed to the non-union companies where it's only the Forman or guy in the trailer that does; saves me time and effort having to tell them what the plans say...
View Quote

Yeah..OK
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:44:34 AM EST
The people that really hate on unions wish they had one.
A union can be good or bad it depends on the people.
Company's are the reason they are a reality. If they would have
treated people well the unions would have never gotten a foothold.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:45:10 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By grandnational007:
As an engineer/construction inspector/asst. building official; pretty much all the trades...

Concrete, electricians, plumbers, framers, iron workers, welders, ceilings...

Every guy down the chain knows how to read the prints and specs, as opposed to the non-union companies where it's only the Forman or guy in the trailer that does; saves me time and effort having to tell them what the plans say...
View Quote


You must be a union dues payer, because all I have to say about this is... HA
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:49:44 AM EST
Subaru's American plants are unionized. Their cars may not cater to everyone's preference but they make a quality product.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:52:22 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
BOEING
View Quote


Boeing suffers more from management issues than anything the IAM is doing.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:57:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 9:00:15 AM EST by fike]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
Colt
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
Colt


Isn't Colt facing some issues in a few years with debt?

The gun maker's total assets of $159 million on March 31 were $162 million less than its liabilities


ETA: http://www.northjersey.com/news/216194231_Colt_reunited_lacks_firepower_to_aid_lenders.html
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:58:51 AM EST
Speed Queen is a union outfit out of Wisconsin that makes arguably the highest quality consumer-grade laundry appliances available.

I don't know what kind of profit margin they run vs. their competitors, but the actual product is top notch.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:12:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:14:59 AM EST
BNSF or UP RAILWAY. Without either this country would shut down in less than 3 day. Railroads started the union thing. There is a reason the term for when you are getting screwed over is "being railroaded".
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:22:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By grandnational007:
As an engineer/construction inspector/asst. building official; pretty much all the trades...

Concrete, electricians, plumbers, framers, iron workers, welders, ceilings...

Every guy down the chain knows how to read the prints and specs, as opposed to the non-union companies where it's only the Forman or guy in the trailer that does; saves me time and effort having to tell them what the plans say...
View Quote
Came here to say this.

The level of training and certification for an IBEW Electrician to earn the Title "JOURNEYMAN WIREMAN" is way beyond what is required by the non-union sector (on the whole).

Also, Linemen that are Union and work for Union employers by and large have a much safer work environment.

Keep in mind I'm talking about Electrical Contractors here as that is what I know.

They are two competing business models...the non-union views labor as nothing more than a tool to be used and managed, no different than a pipe bender, hand tools, service, van, etc. They invest their money in overhead personnel, supervisor training, and on 'task oriented training'. The non-union does have some talented workers electricians...many of them from the IBEW...heck, many non-union EC's were IBEW members at one time.

The union model is a bit different. They invest their money in their Journeymen and Foremen, and try to beat the non-union on a human productivity level.

In years past, this was very often the case as IBEW workers would far outpace and outclass their non-union counterparts.

The industry has evolved though and a lot of material is pre-engineered to take the human intelligence side out of it, and make it less reliant on skill to install...that's a nice way of saying it's been dumbed down. Also, the non-union's training programs have gotten better. They still do not muster what is done by the NJATC (National Joint Apprnenticeship and Training Committee), but they are getting better. As such, the dumbed down material, increases skill, and superior management of the non-union does give them a serious competitive edge.

That all being said, there are some union employers that use the same techniques as the non-union, and when you combine that with highly trained technicians that are motivated to perform...those IBEW employing Contractors are VERY tough to beat.




Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:23:26 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:


Except it didn't work great. Go back and look at long distance rates and adjust them for inflation some time.

Yes, your old Western Electric Touch Tone phone was reliable. But the Bell Operating System was very resistant to new technology. And why not? They were a regulated monopoly with a guaranteed rate of return. Why go to the trouble of introducing new technology. Cellular phones and the internet would have been much delayed if the Bell monopoly hadn't been broken up. It's no accident that computer based communications exploded right after the Bell System breakup.


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Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
All of the legacy of the Bell System. (AT&T)


Worked great until the government protected monopoly ended. The CWA contracts had a lot to do with the breakup after that though, and the subsequent sacrifice of innovation and market leadership in favor of selling off assets to keep the communists happy.


Except it didn't work great. Go back and look at long distance rates and adjust them for inflation some time.

Yes, your old Western Electric Touch Tone phone was reliable. But the Bell Operating System was very resistant to new technology. And why not? They were a regulated monopoly with a guaranteed rate of return. Why go to the trouble of introducing new technology. Cellular phones and the internet would have been much delayed if the Bell monopoly hadn't been broken up. It's no accident that computer based communications exploded right after the Bell System breakup.




Sorry, but I find myself thinking that anyone claiming Bell or AT&T was resistant to new technology doesn't really know much about the organization.

One has to realize that the goals of the AT&T network were larger than just providing cheap long distance service. The Bell network was a hardened government and military communications network FIRST, and a local/long distance civilian telco network in it's free time. Their seeming resistance to new tech was a necessary side effect of keeping reliability the primary goal. Not "last mile" reliability to Flyoverville Utah, but reliability sufficient so that the President of the United States could pick up any phone on his network, press the "FO" key, and communicate with the big boys while significant chunks of the network were being turned into craters and pretty sunsets.

Sure, the baby bells put out a lot of shiny baubles afterward as they monetized the research and development someone else paid for, but once they ran out of other people's ideas and infrastructure, they stagnated. It's real easy to pop a class 5 switch in when someone else pulled all the cable, built all the microwave towers, and did all the homework to make it all work with the class 4 switches prior. The big work was already done for them. They took over a nice, new, well maintained digital network that was built to withstand armageddon.

The CWA issues just fanned the flames and hastened the decline. Like in the auto industry, they didn't care that times were tough. They couldn't look past the nose on their face to the long term, and as such, now the average CWA worker has worse conditions, worse compensation, and a generally crappier work experience than he did thirty years ago. He's probably more likely to be hurt on the job, and more likely to end up fucked for life if he does. Yay.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:32:14 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GeneralV:
BNSF or UP RAILWAY. Without either this country would shut down in less than 3 day. Railroads started the union thing. There is a reason the term for when you are getting screwed over is "being railroaded".
View Quote


This. I'm a railroader, and can definitely say that the Unions here are the reason that the business is much safer, and doing more with less than they were 100+ years ago.

I was never big on unions. My dad was a steelworker, one grandpa in UAW, the other in Teamsters. Uncles and cousins in various trade unions (carpenters, electricians, HVAC, etc). Unions are a double edged sword, but most of them, I think now, have a positive effect on the company(ies) they work with.



Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:36:32 AM EST
Cat Inc., formerly known as Caterpillar Tractor Company. They make, by far, the best construction and earth moving machines on the planet and they are a union shop, in the states that they have factories in that are union states.

They did break the union stranglehold about 20 years ago, but did not get rid of the unions for the important things such as vehicle assembly. Just reduced the number of union workers and hired a lot of contractors to do some other factory or office work. Oh yeah, and the company reduced pay and benefits, significantly, on new company hires. But the company has record profits every quarter, still lays off people anyway, but as long as the unions and workers are getting fucked its good to go according to arfcom.

These threads blatantly reveal the basement sitters, college idiots and IT dweebs. In other words, kids and people who do not live in the real world.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:38:46 AM EST


Police.




Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:39:15 AM EST
Colt?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:42:24 AM EST
Tesla is non union and they make a car that is just simply bad fucking ass. Wished it came with a V8 thou.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:43:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By astrocreep96:
Subaru's American plants are unionized. Their cars may not cater to everyone's preference but they make a quality product.
View Quote
This is not true. Subaru is nonunion.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:45:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


Worked great until the government protected monopoly ended. The CWA contracts had a lot to do with the breakup after that though, and the subsequent sacrifice of innovation and market leadership in favor of selling off assets to keep the communists happy.
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
All of the legacy of the Bell System. (AT&T)


Worked great until the government protected monopoly ended. The CWA contracts had a lot to do with the breakup after that though, and the subsequent sacrifice of innovation and market leadership in favor of selling off assets to keep the communists happy.


It had more to do with being forced to allow strawman "providers" using their equipment for below costs. That and the gov't not understanding the concept of universal I service, i.e., the concept that volume calls from LA to NY which create profit subsidize calls from Omaha to Phoenix. The coasts supported flyover country, etc.

The union in this case provided for a stable, competent workforce.

This may come as a shock to some, but in SOME instances it's not in everyone's best interests to have seven electric companies, four gas companies and six phone companies all running up and tearing up the same streets. This is one of those situations where government oversight of a single provider might make sense.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 10:08:37 AM EST
WOW.

After reading these pro union posts, I had to go back and see what site I was logged into.
Never been in a union, but I 've worked with many. And all of the electricians and low voltage wiremen were top notch.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 10:10:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:


It had more to do with being forced to allow strawman "providers" using their equipment for below costs. That and the gov't not understanding the concept of universal I service, i.e., the concept that volume calls from LA to NY which create profit subsidize calls from Omaha to Phoenix. The coasts supported flyover country, etc.

The union in this case provided for a stable, competent workforce.

This may come as a shock to some, but in SOME instances it's not in everyone's best interests to have seven electric companies, four gas companies and six phone companies all running up and tearing up the same streets. This is one of those situations where government oversight of a single provider might make sense.
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Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
All of the legacy of the Bell System. (AT&T)


Worked great until the government protected monopoly ended. The CWA contracts had a lot to do with the breakup after that though, and the subsequent sacrifice of innovation and market leadership in favor of selling off assets to keep the communists happy.


It had more to do with being forced to allow strawman "providers" using their equipment for below costs. That and the gov't not understanding the concept of universal I service, i.e., the concept that volume calls from LA to NY which create profit subsidize calls from Omaha to Phoenix. The coasts supported flyover country, etc.

The union in this case provided for a stable, competent workforce.

This may come as a shock to some, but in SOME instances it's not in everyone's best interests to have seven electric companies, four gas companies and six phone companies all running up and tearing up the same streets. This is one of those situations where government oversight of a single provider might make sense.


That model has more value when dealing with a static product. Electricity and gas are pretty much the same product that anyone, anywhere is able to deliver with little room for innovation.

If the phone company was the only one able to bring internet to your house we'd still be running at ISDN speeds.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 10:11:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fairplay:
The people that really hate on unions wish they had one.
A union can be good or bad it depends on the people.
Company's are the reason they are a reality. If they would have
treated people well the unions would have never gotten a foothold.
View Quote


If a group of people voluntarily get together for the purposes of providing better services, I'm okay with that.

If a business decides those services are no longer worth the money, I'm okay with that too.

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 10:14:08 AM EST
Ford.


Unions are as much a part of the capitalistic system as any other company. A union is merely a company that sells labor. They get political preference simply because they have a lot of voters. No company can vote. Union members can. Like any organization of people it has power. Not only that they have learned how to use it. There has been plenty of abuse on both sides of the issue.

Some years ago a union in Canada purchased enough stock in the company their workers worked at they they literally brought their way into the board of directors. After a period of initial mistrust, it actually worked out well for the union members and the company. They got a dedicated workforce and the union started becoming much more flexible. Being able to see the books was a real eye opener for the union management. In fact the union would would often recommend cost cutting measures.

From a purely neutral point of view there is no real difference between paying millions for a CEO or the same amount in extra wages to union members. In either situation, the company is still out the money. I would also argue that a little extra cash in the hands of many people is better for the economy than a lot of cash in the hands of one CEO. Study after study has shown that CEO compensation has no relation to company performance. Very few CEO's have been able to so what guys like Lee Iacoca did. At tho start, Chrysler paid him $1.00 per year and almost worthless stock. He made his millions when he turned Chrysler around and sold his stock.
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