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Posted: 6/29/2015 3:57:52 PM EDT
If'n it was me and I was on scene commander and I suspected the last escapee was holed up in a section of woods like he was...

I'd establish a perimeter like they did around the entire area...

Then I'd equip several teams with IR Strobes, and send them in...using a FLIR equipped fixed wing or helo I would have directed them to the only man in the AO WITHOUT a IR STROBE...CLOSE, ID, CAPTURE OR KILL...

Seems like they had him holed up in a 2-3 mile section of woods for a couple of days...today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 3:58:47 PM EDT
Quoted:
If'n it was me and I was on scene commander and I suspected the last escapee was holed up in a section of woods like he was...

I'd establish a perimeter like they did around the entire area...

Then I'd equip several teams with IR Strobes, and send them in...using a FLIR equipped fixed wing or helo I would have directed them to the only man in the AO WITHOUT a IR STROBE...CLOSE, CAPTURE OR KILL...

Seems like they had him holed up in a 2-3 mile section of woods for a couple of days...today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?
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Does anyone care?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:00:58 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Does anyone care?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If'n it was me and I was on scene commander and I suspected the last escapee was holed up in a section of woods like he was...

I'd establish a perimeter like they did around the entire area...

Then I'd equip several teams with IR Strobes, and send them in...using a FLIR equipped fixed wing or helo I would have directed them to the only man in the AO WITHOUT a IR STROBE...CLOSE, CAPTURE OR KILL...

Seems like they had him holed up in a 2-3 mile section of woods for a couple of days...today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?

Does anyone care?


Not really but sure does seem like the whole op was handled by a retarded Butter bar trying to stage the Iwo Jima landing...
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:01:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:01:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:03:32 PM EDT
Unfortunately, our FAUC of a governor wanted them to stay on the run so it can continue to provide distraction for his corrupt activities. It worked.....
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:04:24 PM EDT
Two words:  ARC LIGHT.

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:06:46 PM EDT
Lets face it.

Old news.

Its a Dupe.

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:08:23 PM EDT
Quoted:
If'n it was me and I was on scene commander and I suspected the last escapee was holed up in a section of woods like he was...

I'd establish a perimeter like they did around the entire area...

Then I'd equip several teams with IR Strobes, and send them in...using a FLIR equipped fixed wing or helo I would have directed them to the only man in the AO WITHOUT a IR STROBE...CLOSE, ID, CAPTURE OR KILL...

Seems like they had him holed up in a 2-3 mile section of woods for a couple of days...today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?
View Quote


Yes, thermal and FLIR are not X-Rays.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:10:11 PM EDT
I love computer chair quarterbacks
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:20:53 PM EDT
at this point what difference does it make?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:23:54 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Two words:  ARC LIGHT.

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I like your style.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:28:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:32:04 PM EDT
FLIR is not X-ray. It it helpful, but not the end-all-be-all, especially during the green months.

ETA: Oh by the way, you play too much Call of Duty.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 4:39:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:01:55 PM EDT
Unfortunately the military cannot be used for such endeavors. They have the best equipment to perform these kind of tasks. I'm surprised the National Guard wasn't activated to assist in the search.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:05:34 PM EDT
Doubtful FLIR could see through the canopy this time of year.

Rhododendron so thick in parts you couldn't see a grizzly bear in a clown suit 10 feet away at ground level.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:49:33 PM EDT
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Quoted:


We were searching for some suspects using FLIR and they detect rocks that held in heat from the day and released it at night.

Also pretty narrow on the area they can search.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
..today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?


We were searching for some suspects using FLIR and they detect rocks that held in heat from the day and released it at night.

Also pretty narrow on the area they can search.


So, yes, he's as wrong as Donkey Kong.  Is that what you're saying?  He's almost Keystone...
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:19:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:21:49 PM EDT


Set up perimeter. Controlled burn.

Gotta be willing to break some eggs, amiright?




Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:23:07 PM EDT
What the fuck is "if'n"?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:25:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:26:15 PM EDT
Let's see here, one bad guy dead, the other in custody with a few new holes in his body. No one on the good guy side got hurt as far as I know. That's a win in my book.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:29:55 PM EDT
Agent orange
Then napalm.


 



But that's for New York in general.  




Dogs for the escapees.  
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:31:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:41:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:45:06 PM EDT
Quoted:
If'n it was me and I was on scene commander and I suspected the last escapee was holed up in a section of woods like he was...

I'd establish a perimeter like they did around the entire area...

Then I'd equip several teams with IR Strobes, and send them in...using a FLIR equipped fixed wing or helo I would have directed them to the only man in the AO WITHOUT a IR STROBE...CLOSE, ID, CAPTURE OR KILL...

Seems like they had him holed up in a 2-3 mile section of woods for a couple of days...today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?
View Quote

I can tell you are not as well versed in the capabilities of IR technology as you think you are.

It's also not as easy to close with, ID, capture or kill an individual as you think it is.  I can tell you haven't done any of that.

But you would be screaming about a cop that found and detained you using IR, wouldn't you?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:47:04 PM EDT
Didn't the guy that just got shot say the other guy was slowing him down?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:53:43 PM EDT
So OP,  just how many manhunts for escaped convicts have you been on? Nothing never-ever goes like you think it will. With a six hour start it's a wonder they caught them at all. Usually they get away and do some stupid shit on the street and get caught that way.



Dad and myself spent three days in the Shenandoah National Park before we snagged the escaped convict we were looking for. We finally caught up with him at a old abandoned moonshine still site.

The fucking redneck locals had been hiding/feeding the convict and every time the cops would head up into the hollow he was hiding out in he would go up into the park and wait them out.

We had to be dropped-off in the middle of the night on the Skyline Drive miles away from the head of the hollow he was hiding in. The fucking people that worked up on the park (hollow-dwellers themselves) would have ratted us out had they seen us go in during daylight.

When we took him we had to truss him up and go out the same way we came in. Going out through that hollow with him would have started a minor war. Those fucking hollow-dwellers were bat-shit crazy.

He was in for 2nd degree murder and cattle rustling of all things. He did not raise a fuss at all.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:04:27 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Set up perimeter. Controlled burn.

Gotta be willing to break some eggs, amiright?




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Quoted:


Set up perimeter. Controlled burn.

Gotta be willing to break some eggs, amiright?







I remember this manhunt from the late 90's.  My old Chief ran into these "right wing wackos" while hey we're enroute to a cache of weapons (still undiscovered).  


TLDR.....  Too bad, so sad....





July 3, 1998

By Joshua Moore
Herald Staff Writer

MONTEZUMA CREEK, Utah – Searchers turned up the heat on two fugitives Thursday afternoon, setting a mile-wide fire on the banks of the San Juan River about a half mile from where Navajo trackers found fresh tracks Wednesday morning.

San Juan County, Utah, Sheriff Mike Lacy stressed Thursday that searchers set the fire to clear away the thick vegetation along the river – not to smoke or burn the fugitives out of hiding. The fire was set three days after a 9-year-old girl reported seeing two men matching the descriptions of Alan "Monte" Pilon, 30, of Dove Creek, and Jason Wayne McVean, 26, of Durango.



The two men allegedly shot Cortez police officer Dale Claxton and wounded two sheriff’s deputies before fleeing into Cross Canyon on May 29. A third suspect, Robert Mason, 26, of Durango, was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound June 4 near Bluff, Utah.

Highway 163 from Montezuma Creek to Bluff was closed shortly before the fire was set at 3 p.m., and remained closed until about 6 p.m., Lacy said.

More than 80 special weapons and tactics team members were positioned on the ridges overlooking the river as other SWAT teams started the blaze by lighting flares along the western boundary of the search area, about nine miles west of Montezuma Creek. Lacy said he had intended to light the fire using explosive balls dropped from a helicopter, but was unable to gather the materials and necessary equipment by Thursday afternoon.

The flares quickly ignited the sagebrush and other dry vegetation away from the river, but it was several minutes before the tamarisk and Russian olive trees at the river’s edge would burn.

Lacy said searchers had decided to light several small spot fires in the middle of the six-mile search and would monitor the blaze to determine if other fires are needed.

The fire was set near where Navajo trackers heard two men talking, giggling and splashing in the river Tuesday night, Lacy said. The trackers were able to get within 30 yards of the men, Lacy said, but had not tried to capture the suspects because their night vision goggles malfunctioned.

The trackers also did not want to risk a gun battle at night, Lacy said, and the thick brush made it difficult to set a perimeter around the two suspects.

Some environmentalists called the San Juan County, Utah, sheriff’s office to voice their objection’s to Thursday’s fire, Lacy said, but most of the Navajos and other people who live along the river were pleased with the plan.

Lacy said area residents have discussed burning the vegetation for several years.

"It’s something that should have been burned a long time ago," Lacy said.

Lacy said farmers will be able to let livestock graze along the river after the dense bushes are burned away and new, thinner vegetation grows in its place.

Helicopter crews flew over the river shortly before the fire was set, broadcasting a message over their loudspeakers informing anyone who might be on the river to leave the area immediately.

There are no houses in the search area and authorities believe no one but the fugitives are near the river, Lacy said.

Searchers had hoped to light the fire at noon Thursday, but were delayed by an investigation into a report by a San Juan County, Utah, deputy who saw two men in camouflage Wednesday night. Investigators used search dogs to follow a trail left by the two people, but Lacy said they dismissed the tracks because they were smaller than Pilon and McVean’s tracks and had disappeared, as if they had gotten into a vehicle.

Authorities ordered rafters out of the river near Montezuma Creek Thursday morning. the rafters apparently were unaware that the river was closed from Montezuma Creek to Bluff.

Moments after crews lit Thursday’s fire, authorities were again distracted by an alarm indicating a hostage situation at the Zion’s Bank in Montezuma Creek. Lacy said he investigated the report and found that one of the bank tellers had mistakenly pressed an alarm button.

Lacy said more than 50 searchers would monitor the fire throughout Thursday night and would watch for any movement in the search area by using infrared and night vision goggles. He said searchers are considering sending in search dogs first thing this morning to follow any new tracks that might be uncovered.

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:08:40 PM EDT

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So OP,  just how many manhunts for escaped convicts have you been on? Nothing never-ever goes like you think it will. With a six hour start it's a wonder they caught them at all. Usually they get away and do some stupid shit on the street and get caught that way.
Dad and myself spent three days in the Shenandoah National Park before we snagged the escaped convict we were looking for. We finally caught up with him at a old abandoned moonshine still site.



The fucking redneck locals had been hiding/feeding the convict and every time the cops would head up into the hollow he was hiding out in he would go up into the park and wait them out.



We had to be dropped-off in the middle of the night on the Skyline Drive miles away from the head of the hollow he was hiding in. The fucking people that worked up on the park (hollow-dwellers themselves) would have ratted us out had they seen us go in during daylight.



When we took him we had to truss him up and go out the same way we came in. Going out through that hollow with him would have started a minor war. Those fucking hollow-dwellers were bat-shit crazy.



He was in for 2nd degree murder and cattle rustling of all things. He did not raise a fuss at all.
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You win the arfcom post of the day

 


Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:11:15 PM EDT
I'm sure your amazing in your world.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:12:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:12:48 PM EDT
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Quoted:

I can tell you are not as well versed in the capabilities of IR technology as you think you are.

It's also not as easy to close with, ID, capture or kill an individual as you think it is.  I can tell you haven't done any of that.

But you would be screaming about a cop that found and detained you using IR, wouldn't you?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If'n it was me and I was on scene commander and I suspected the last escapee was holed up in a section of woods like he was...

I'd establish a perimeter like they did around the entire area...

Then I'd equip several teams with IR Strobes, and send them in...using a FLIR equipped fixed wing or helo I would have directed them to the only man in the AO WITHOUT a IR STROBE...CLOSE, ID, CAPTURE OR KILL...

Seems like they had him holed up in a 2-3 mile section of woods for a couple of days...today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?

I can tell you are not as well versed in the capabilities of IR technology as you think you are.

It's also not as easy to close with, ID, capture or kill an individual as you think it is.  I can tell you haven't done any of that.

But you would be screaming about a cop that found and detained you using IR, wouldn't you?


User name lol.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:15:18 PM EDT
Quoted:
If'n it was me and I was on scene commander and I suspected the last escapee was holed up in a section of woods like he was...

I'd establish a perimeter like they did around the entire area...

Then I'd equip several teams with IR Strobes, and send them in...using a FLIR equipped fixed wing or helo I would have directed them to the only man in the AO WITHOUT a IR STROBE...CLOSE, ID, CAPTURE OR KILL...

Seems like they had him holed up in a 2-3 mile section of woods for a couple of days...today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?
View Quote



Yes

FLIR doesn't work effectively in heavy canopy. Open fields, sure. The area they were in was extremely thick. So go back to your video games.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:17:21 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I love computer chair quarterbacks
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They know EVERYTHING, but have done nothing on their own.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:20:11 PM EDT
Quoted:
If'n it was me and I was on scene commander and I suspected the last escapee was holed up in a section of woods like he was...

I'd establish a perimeter like they did around the entire area...

Then I'd equip several teams with IR Strobes, and send them in...using a FLIR equipped fixed wing or helo I would have directed them to the only man in the AO WITHOUT a IR STROBE...CLOSE, ID, CAPTURE OR KILL...

Seems like they had him holed up in a 2-3 mile section of woods for a couple of days...today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?
View Quote


So how many manhunts have you controled from your parents basement?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:20:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:21:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:25:30 PM EDT

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Quoted:



Yeah the dead guy had blisters and was slowing this guy down  
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Quoted:

Didn't the guy that just got shot say the other guy was slowing him down?
Yeah the dead guy had blisters and was slowing this guy down  
Should have toughened up his feet prior to escape.

 
Which would have been a giveaway.

Like bergdahl sleeping on the floor to toughen up
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:10:10 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I'm confident that if you give me a guy locked up in a cell he'll be there when I finish my shift.  
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I love computer chair quarterbacks


They know EVERYTHING, but have done nothing on their own.
I'm confident that if you give me a guy locked up in a cell he'll be there when I finish my shift.  


Meh, you have to be locked in with them to some degree.  I'll pass.  I could not do corrections.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:23:14 PM EDT
Not going to second guess the on scene commander. Mission was accomplished
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:04:36 AM EDT
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Well letting two murderers hang out in an honor wing before they escape from a mex security prison, then spend time squabbling between the agencies and send everyone to the wrong end of the state so you have to call in swat from a neighboring state...anyway if you call managing to paddle away from the Titanic a win...  

That prison is rumored to be a mess security wise, unmanned posts, drug smuggling by law enforcement etc,
 

FBI is investigating drug smuggling involving inmates and state employees and "broader corruption" at the prison.
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Quoted:
Let's see here, one bad guy dead, the other in custody with a few new holes in his body. No one on the good guy side got hurt as far as I know. That's a win in my book.
Well letting two murderers hang out in an honor wing before they escape from a mex security prison, then spend time squabbling between the agencies and send everyone to the wrong end of the state so you have to call in swat from a neighboring state...anyway if you call managing to paddle away from the Titanic a win...  

That prison is rumored to be a mess security wise, unmanned posts, drug smuggling by law enforcement etc,
 

FBI is investigating drug smuggling involving inmates and state employees and "broader corruption" at the prison.


Was the prison fucked up, sounds like it. Did the MANHUNT(which this thread is about) go well, yes.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:09:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:20:02 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's see here, one bad guy dead, the other in custody with a few new holes in his body. No one on the good guy side got hurt as far as I know. That's a win in my book.
Well letting two murderers hang out in an honor wing before they escape from a mex security prison, then spend time squabbling between the agencies and send everyone to the wrong end of the state so you have to call in swat from a neighboring state...anyway if you call managing to paddle away from the Titanic a win...  

That prison is rumored to be a mess security wise, unmanned posts, drug smuggling by law enforcement etc,
 

FBI is investigating drug smuggling involving inmates and state employees and "broader corruption" at the prison.


Was the prison fucked up, sounds like it. Did the MANHUNT(which this thread is about) go well, yes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/nyregion/squabbling-hesitation-and-luck-had-roles-in-manhunt-for-new-york-prison-escapees.html?_r=0
 

it did?


Neither one made it more then 40 miles from the prison
One is dead
The other got a few new holes in him.
No one else got hurt.

Some inter agency squabbling, oh no, not something like that. They obviously got it figured out.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:23:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:24:35 AM EDT
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Quoted:
FLIR is not X-ray. It it helpful, but not the end-all-be-all, especially during the green months.

ETA: Oh by the way, you play too much Call of Duty.
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This. Thick vegetation can render Thermal/FLIR practically useless.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:18:03 PM EDT
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We were searching for some suspects using FLIR and they detect rocks that held in heat from the day and released it at night.

Also pretty narrow on the area they can search.
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Quoted:
..today's FLIR tech can easily distinguish between a deer or a human...

Am I wrong?


We were searching for some suspects using FLIR and they detect rocks that held in heat from the day and released it at night.

Also pretty narrow on the area they can search.

Yep, FLIR is much less useful than it sounds...
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:22:59 PM EDT
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Nothing to see here folks! Move alonghttp://www.cnn.com/2015/06/29/us/new-york-prison-investigation/



What started as an investigation into how two convicted murderers managed to break out of a maximum-security prison in upstate New York has now sparked an FBI investigation into possible broader corruption and drug trafficking at the facility.



Prison employees have told investigators about heroin use among inmates at the Clinton Correctional Facility, and the role of employees in the drug trade, law enforcement officials briefed on the probe told CNN on Monday.


 
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Damn if only the escapees were fucking each other it could have been a spinoff of Orange Is The New Black.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:26:09 PM EDT


I heard the police spokesman this morning say that the escapees sprinkled black pepper to cover their tracks, and he admitted the pepper was effective in throwing the dogs off the scent. Seemed like a pretty low tech operation.







ETA the New York Times asked dog experts, who say this was extremely unlikely (even though the police admitted it). The cops even say they found his DNA on a pepper shaker during the search. Nothing fishy at all here folks.





http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/nyregion/did-pepper-throw-dogs-off-the-scent-of-2-fugitives-an-expert-says-no.html









 
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 7:37:54 PM EDT
Well mission accomplished. I wish someone could teach Cuomo how to properly say law though. Its not LAR.
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